Top QB List In NFL

[purple.n.black]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304045688' post='673289']
I judge performance over the duration of your career. Bret most picks and most touchdowns obviously good, but top three not at all. Mcnabb is better than Bret also. My Opinion.
[/quote]
I agree McNabb is better now. I wasn't saying I believe Brett belongs anywhere near the top 20. Just trying to understand your decision process.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304045456' post='673245']
lol just the tape
[/quote]

Can you share this "tape"?

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1304082064' post='674035']
Can you share this "tape"?
[/quote]
No, no he cannot

[3-4ravdef509]

McNabb...how many rings does he have again?

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1304082064' post='674035']
Can you share this "tape"?
[/quote]
all the tape my man

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='3-4ravdef509' timestamp='1304085009' post='674089']
McNabb...how many rings does he have again?


[/quote]
We are talking about a league where arguably the best QB to ever play the game in Marino does not have a ring, and maybe the second best in Warren Moon.

Need i say more?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304123282' post='675615']
all the tape my man
[/quote]



Roethlisberger > Vick

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='RivenHale' timestamp='1304002335' post='672047']
Vick had this one great, great year. Before that, he was the greatest mediocre quarterback ever, to paraphrase The Onion. Ben has had consistent success. I hate him as much as you do, but I hate him for the same reason you do - he's very, very good.

EDIT: I want it clear that I'm not taking anything away from Vick. I strongly believe he will come back this year and do the same thing all over again, because he's an excellent talent that just took a while to really shine, it seems like. But I also think that Ben has a better resume right now.
[/quote]
One great year are you kidding me? He has been great since entering the league. Vick carried Atlanta through some horrible years. Watch Qb's not ESPN and stats. Vick throws the football like a nerf. Compare Vicks arm strength with any other QB in Football see how he stacks up. We all know that he has the fastest field speed at the position. Now tell me how Ben just knows his playbook better and ill just stop a min to LOL.

[3-4ravdef509]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304123385' post='675623']
We are talking about a league where arguably the best QB to ever play the game in Marino does not have a ring, and maybe the second best in Warren Moon.

Need i say more?
[/quote]

Yes, please do. I wouldn't say Marino is the best to ever play, solely because of what you pointed out: no rings.
Anyway, doesn't matter. I like McNabb, but I wouldn't put him in top 10 anymore. Top 20 perhaps. He's 100 on the 100 greatest players of 2011, which is probably more than enough. He was great in Philly, but not anymore.

[purple.n.black]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304244450' post='678737']
One great year are you kidding me? He has been great since entering the league. Vick carried Atlanta through some horrible years. Watch Qb's not ESPN and stats. Vick throws the football like a nerf. Compare Vicks arm strength with any other QB in Football see how he stacks up. We all know that he has the fastest field speed at the position. Now tell me how Ben just knows his playbook better and ill just stop a min to LOL.
[/quote]
He has not been great since entering the league. Many of his pro bowl appearances happened because people wanted to see a good and [i]exciting[/i] player, not a [i]great[/i] player. And he did not carry Atlanta through anything. Carrying would be at the VERY least, getting them to back to back playoffs. He didn't do that. He helped them but really put them in no [b]strong[/b] position to do anything remarkable. And arm strength is not everything. It helps but it doesn't make a player even average if they suck at everything else, like Russell and Boller. Vick had a damn good season last year, but I think what we saw from him at the end of the season (still good numbers, but at least one interception in 6 straight games played), is [i]closer[/i] to what we'll see from him in the future. Not 7 games in a row with no interceptions. And that is a very respectable thing to be, but it's not Big Ben.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='purple.n.black' timestamp='1304274966' post='678973']
He has not been great since entering the league. Many of his pro bowl appearances happened because people wanted to see a good and [i]exciting[/i] player, not a [i]great[/i] player. And he did not carry Atlanta through anything. Carrying would be at the VERY least, getting them to back to back playoffs. He didn't do that. He helped them but really put them in no [b]strong[/b] position to do anything remarkable. And arm strength is not everything. It helps but it doesn't make a player even average if they suck at everything else, like Russell and Boller. Vick had a damn good season last year, but I think what we saw from him at the end of the season (still good numbers, but at least one interception in 6 straight games played), is [i]closer[/i] to what we'll see from him in the future. Not 7 games in a row with no interceptions. And that is a very respectable thing to be, but it's not Big Ben.
[/quote]i give up you guys are unbelievable. Stats aside Vick wins ball games. (Exciting) what makes him exciting? The fact that he can play running back and Quarterback in the same game. Can Big Ben do that. LOL. Scrambling QB are the most dangerous players in the league, just ask anybody that has to defend them....

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='3-4ravdef509' timestamp='1304085009' post='674089']
McNabb...how many rings does he have again?


[/quote]
How many does Brady have? That are not in question. One of the best QB"s of all time, in the same system that led Cassel to a major Payday in Kansas city, where he looks average at best. No surprise. One day you will realize that an athlete at the QB position changes the game in ways that stats can't show.

[berad]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304303255' post='679432']
i give up you guys are unbelievable. Stats aside Vick wins ball games. (Exciting) what makes him exciting? The fact that he can play running back and Quarterback in the same game. Can Big Ben do that. LOL. Scrambling QB are the most dangerous players in the league, just ask anybody that has to defend them....
[/quote]

I agree, if Vick consistently made great decisions as a passer and was still able to run as he can, he would be indefensible. But he makes too many mistakes, as a passer, to be considered "the second best QB in the NFL". Vick is fine where he is slated.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1304082290' post='674040']
No, no he cannot
[/quote]
You guys love each other that's good though. The only other thing i would say is go to a high school strap on a helmet and play against a scrambling QB or a pocket passer and see who burns you more. Some of you are sitting here typing now, because your high school QB could scramble, and he probably made you wanna quit the game.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='3-4ravdef509' timestamp='1304274001' post='678947']
Yes, please do. I wouldn't say Marino is the best to ever play, solely because of what you pointed out: no rings.
Anyway, doesn't matter. I like McNabb, but I wouldn't put him in top 10 anymore. Top 20 perhaps. He's 100 on the 100 greatest players of 2011, which is probably more than enough. He was great in Philly, but not anymore.
[/quote]
Rings make great players great. Doesn't sound right to me. (Wait!) let me say it slow. Nope, still makes 0 sense.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1304303793' post='679440']
I agree, if Vick consistently made great decisions as a passer and was still able to run as he can, he would be indefensible. But he makes too many mistakes, as a passer, to be considered "the second best QB in the NFL". Vick is fine where he is slated.
[/quote]
As i recall there was two Quarterback candidates for MVP. Brady, and who was that other guy, (that in my opinion) lost it the last two weeks of the season.

[RivenHale]

[quote]Scrambling QB are the most dangerous players in the league, just ask anybody that has to defend them.... [/quote]

Shall we ask the Packers defense?

[berad]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304304510' post='679452']
As i recall there was two Quarterback candidates for MVP. Brady, and who was that other guy, (that in my opinion) lost it the last two weeks of the season.
[/quote]

Yes, and? Was Vick too inconsistent to hold onto his MVP lead? What happened?

MVP voting isn't the end-all-be-all of QB play. Aaron Rodgers was the best QB in 2011 - and no, I'm not basing this on his SB win, although it helps him - yet he wasn't mentioned in the MVP race and didn't even get a Pro Bowl selection. Rodgers was unstoppable.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304304054' post='679445']
You guys love each other that's good though. The only other thing i would say is go to a high school strap on a helmet and play against a scrambling QB or a pocket passer and see who burns you more. Some of you are sitting here typing now, because your high school QB could scramble, and he probably made you wanna quit the game.
[/quote]

You couldn't produce "tape" proving Vick is better than Roethlisberger. Either produce facts or stop typing, but don't resort to cheap remarks because someone felt the same way I do.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304303646' post='679437']
How many does Brady have? That are not in question. One of the best QB"s of all time, in the same system that led Cassel to a major Payday in Kansas city, where he looks average at best. No surprise. One day you will realize that an athlete at the QB position changes the game in ways that stats can't show.
[/quote]
Only if the scrambler can actually QB though at the same time. It took Vick what 6 seasons to figure out how to be a pocket passer and how to effectively use his athleticism to extend plays? Vick is a better player now than he ever was, but the Troy Smiths of the league the Joe Webbs, those guys arent even close to being effective in the NFL. At the end of the day you have to be a QB first before an athlete.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304244450' post='678737']
One great year are you kidding me? He has been great since entering the league. Vick carried Atlanta through some horrible years. Watch Qb's not ESPN and stats. Vick throws the football like a nerf. Compare Vicks arm strength with any other QB in Football see how he stacks up. We all know that he has the fastest field speed at the position. Now tell me how Ben just knows his playbook better and ill just stop a min to LOL.
[/quote]
Prior to this past year his completion percentage was abysmal .....not to mention he had never thrown for over 3k yards in a single season.

You are way off the mark here!

[1/28/01]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304303255' post='679432']
i give up you guys are unbelievable. Stats aside Vick wins ball games. (Exciting) what makes him exciting? The fact that he can play running back and Quarterback in the same game. Can Big Ben do that. LOL. Scrambling QB are the most dangerous players in the league, just ask anybody that has to defend them....
[/quote]
Yeah, and their teams have crazy success!! Oh wait, NO THEY DON'T!!

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1304308200' post='679513']
Yeah, and their teams have crazy success!! Oh wait, NO THEY DON'T!!
[/quote] I wonder why? Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmm.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1304308082' post='679511']
Prior to this past year his completion percentage was abysmal .....not to mention he had never thrown for over 3k yards in a single season.

You are way off the mark here!
[/quote]
If he throws for 2000 runs for 1000 i consider that a win win. Not to mention that 2006 right before the dog fights, was his only complete season. He played in 12 games last season and threw for over 3000. Playing with a new coach and new receivers. Make fun of the scramblers while you can, its only so long pocket passers can pretend they are better than scramblers. They continue to make rule changes that benefit only one type of QB, and that's the ones that can't move. A new day is coming in the NFL where all players will have to be athletes. I Hope the pocket guys get 5 and 6 first round picks to protect their legacy. lol

[berad]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304315187' post='679615']
If he throws for 2000 runs for 1000 i consider that a win win. Not to mention that 2006 right before the dog fights, was his only complete season. He played in 12 games last season and threw for over 3000. [b]Playing with a new coach and new receivers.[/b] Make fun of the scramblers while you can, its only so long pocket passers can pretend they are better than scramblers. They continue to make rule changes that benefit only one type of QB, and that's the ones that can't move. A new day is coming in the NFL where all players will have to be athletes. I Hope the pocket guys get 5 and 6 first round picks to protect their legacy. lol
[/quote]

Same coach and receivers from 2009.

[-Truth-]

Are we discussing Michael Vick as a passer, or as a QB in general during his stint with the Falcons? Because I could certainly provide an in-depth opinion. I was an adamant Falcons fan from '03 to '06, catching the majority of their games during the time span.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304315187' post='679615']
If he throws for 2000 runs for 1000 i consider that a win win. Not to mention that 2006 right before the dog fights, was his only complete season. He played in 12 games last season and threw for over 3000. Playing with a new coach and new receivers. Make fun of the scramblers while you can, [b]its only so long pocket passers can pretend they are better than scramblers. They continue to make rule changes that benefit only one type of QB, and that's the ones that can't move. A new day is coming in the NFL where all players will have to be athletes. I Hope the pocket guys get 5 and 6 first round picks to protect their legacy.[/b] lol
[/quote]

Thanks for the laugh man.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1304315397' post='679618']
Same coach and receivers from 2009.
[/quote]
He didn't play. Nice try though, game day and practice, two totally different beast.

[3-4ravdef509]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304304229' post='679447']
Rings make great players great. Doesn't sound right to me. (Wait!) let me say it slow. Nope, still makes 0 sense.
[/quote]

No, great players get rings. You're twisting my words. The difference to me between very good and great is winning a championship. So Marino was very good, no doubt. But hardly the best ever. Joe Montana, Brady, etc. are in that elite circle. McNabb is very good. But he's aging, no longer in a system that supports him, and still has never won a Supebowl. Thus, any talk of putting him ahead of Favre and other Superbowl winning quarterbacks is just silly.
I like Vick a lot, but let's wait for him to play more and prove his ability as a consistent passer and runner before we rank him too high.

[Bea]

Best thing to do when ranking QBs is to do it in tiers. I think it works better than just 1-1,000 straight line lists.

Just some advice.