Top QB List In NFL

[SpeedKills]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1303627012' post='669520']
Stafford is weak. Hurt every year. There is not enough evidence to support him being good.
[/quote]

I agree, but I think it only fair until we wait and see gim play a full season, and then judge.

[Ravens Lover]

I'm sorry but there is no way that Bradford should should be in the top ten of any list with only one season were he didn't even make the playoffs

[purple.n.black]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1303627255' post='669522']
Matt cassel at 18 lol. Vick at seven lmao. Donovan at 25? now im just done.
[/quote]
Not sure if you're saying Cassel was low or high, I kind of gave up on the second half but I think that's a pretty accurate ranking of where he should be. Good snf better than a lot, but not great. Certainly not deserving of a Pro Bowl even if he wasn't one of the first voted in. Vick was tough, especially since he didn't finish the season at all how he started. But I do think Ben is better than Vick, and Vick is better than Flacco. That's why he's sandwiched between there. And Donovan was also a tough one. Not long ago I would have put him at least 10 spots higher on that list. I know he was on a bad team last year, but honestly he didn't even look like a starting caliber QB. I tried to factor a lot of things in, like how good players are around them, like their line, running game, and receivers. I also factored in their playoff success or lack thereof, things like that. And this is how good the players are now, not over their career obviously, or McNabb Favre and others wouldn't be so low.

[purple.n.black]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1303523010' post='668893']
I've always loved how much love Ryan gets and how little Flacco gets (in comparison) when their stats are practically identical, and Flacco has playoff victories.
[/quote]
Ryan definitely gets more praise, but all the time especially on NFL Network I hear the guys talking about how good Joe is. Not praising him personally much, but saying things like how some teams need a QB as good as him, or how this QB could develop into a Joe Flacco one day.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1303627620' post='669523']
There's also not enough evidence of him being one of the worst QBs in the league. Personally, I don't think he belongs anywhere on that list yet. Incomplete grade thus far.
[/quote]agreed N/a applies here

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='SpeedKills' timestamp='1303642335' post='669536']
I agree, but I think it only fair until we wait and see gim play a full season, and then judge.
[/quote]Im going to have to agree here. That is only fair, so his grade as of right now is incomplete. Even though he is playing with one of the best receivers in football.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='purple.n.black' timestamp='1303667406' post='669646']
Not sure if you're saying Cassel was low or high, I kind of gave up on the second half but I think that's a pretty accurate ranking of where he should be. Good snf better than a lot, but not great. Certainly not deserving of a Pro Bowl even if he wasn't one of the first voted in. Vick was tough, especially since he didn't finish the season at all how he started. But I do think Ben is better than Vick, and Vick is better than Flacco. That's why he's sandwiched between there. And Donovan was also a tough one. Not long ago I would have put him at least 10 spots higher on that list. I know he was on a bad team last year, but honestly he didn't even look like a starting caliber QB. I tried to factor a lot of things in, like how good players are around them, like their line, running game, and receivers. I also factored in their playoff success or lack thereof, things like that. And this is how good the players are now, not over their career obviously, or McNabb Favre and others wouldn't be so low.
[/quote]
Ben is nowhere near Vick. Cassel is a system QB that stunk it up against us in the playoffs. Mcnabb best touchdown to interception ratio in the history of the league automatically puts him in the top ten. Mcnabb had no offensive line in Washington that's why his numbers were low.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1303683715' post='669813']
[b]Ben is nowhere near Vick.[/b] Cassel is a system QB that stunk it up against us in the playoffs. [b]Mcnabb best touchdown to interception ratio in the history of the league automatically puts him in the top ten. Mcnabb had no offensive line in Washington that's why his numbers were low.[/b]
[/quote]

Not in terms of athleticism but Ben is much more clutch.

I've always liked Donovan but he doesn't deserve to be in the top 10. Trying to justify that after the year he's coming off of is weak. And the Redskins' o-line wasn't the only reason he failed in Washington. His accuracy, which has always been inconsistent, was particularly poor. Rex Grossman looked better than him the last three games of the season.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1303684189' post='669818']
Not in terms of athleticism but Ben is much more clutch.

I've always liked Donovan but he doesn't deserve to be in the top 10. Trying to justify that after the year he's coming off of is weak. And the Redskins' o-line wasn't the only reason he failed in Washington. His accuracy, which has always been inconsistent, was particularly poor. Rex Grossman looked better than him the last three games of the season.
[/quote]
Ben is more clutch. What are we weighing this against? The winning drive in the Superbowl against the Arizona Cardinals. Wow i can't even count how many times i have seen Micheal Vick win games almost=( because he does have teammates) by himself. With his uncanny play making ability.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1303684633' post='669828']
Ben is more clutch. What are we weighing this against? The winning drive in the Superbowl against the Arizona Cardinals. Wow i can't even count how many times i have seen Micheal Vick win games almost=( because he does have teammates) by himself. With his uncanny play making ability.
[/quote]

While I don't subscribe to QBs being credited for wins, Roethlisberger has been credited with 19 comeback wins during his career and 25 game-winning drives.

I highly doubt Vick has a similar résumé.

[ROH522155]

Yes Bradford definitely shouldn't be that high and Sanchez should be a bit higher

[Free Agent]

SOMEONE was in love with Sam Bradford when he made the list.

[purple.n.black]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1303683715' post='669813']
Ben is nowhere near Vick. Cassel is a system QB that stunk it up against us in the playoffs. Mcnabb best touchdown to interception ratio in the history of the league automatically puts him in the top ten. Mcnabb had no offensive line in Washington that's why his numbers were low.
[/quote]
Yeah I'm gonna have to agree with Mr. ER20 on this one. There's a point where a guys game has declined so much that you just cannot still say "automatically puts him in the top ten", or even 20 for that matter. Don had his years, but he hasn't been that guy many of us remember. Rex Grossman of all people looked better than him on THE SAME TEAM. There is a reason why thee Eagles gave McNabb up cheap. And I don't look at the numbers, if you wanna go by that then did you notice McNabb has STILL yet to have a 4000yd season? He's been playing since the 90s! I go by what I see, the guy's efficiency and effectiveness relative to what they are provided with. Yeah the Skins suck, but Don wasn't/isn't good enough to change that. Top 10 QBs are.

[3-4ravdef509]

1.) Peyton Manning Flacco, Ryan, Romo, Rivers, Sanchez? Vick? Eli?
2.) Tom Brady
3.) Rodgers
4.) Brees
5.) Roethlisberger
All guys who have rings and who aren't past their prime (Favre obviously doesn't make the cut.)
So the next 5 are guys on the verge of getting a ring, and are vital to their team's success.
6.) Rivers
7.) Flacco. Though some might reprimand me for putting him this high.
8.) Ryan
9.) Romo*
10.) Vick**

*Romo only cracks top 10 if a year off doesn't slow him down.
**Vick only if last year wasn't a fluke and he continues to be an effective dual threat.

11.)Sanchez (could crack top 10 considering playoffs, but regular season play is inconsistent, especially against good defenses.
12.)Schuab
13.)Cassel
14.)Eli
15.)Bradford

[Blex64]

[quote name='3-4ravdef509' timestamp='1303730029' post='670027']
1.) Peyton Manning Flacco, Ryan, Romo, Rivers, Sanchez? Vick? Eli?
2.) Tom Brady
3.) Rodgers
4.) Brees
5.) Roethlisberger
All guys who have rings and who aren't past their prime (Favre obviously doesn't make the cut.)
So the next 5 are guys on the verge of getting a ring, and are vital to their team's success.
6.) Rivers
7.) Flacco. Though some might reprimand me for putting him this high.
8.) Ryan
9.) Romo*
[b]10.) Vick**

*Romo only cracks top 10 if a year off doesn't slow him down.
**Vick only if last year wasn't a fluke and he continues to be an effective dual threat.

11.)Sanchez (could crack top 10 considering playoffs, but regular season play is inconsistent, especially against good defenses.[/b]
12.)Schuab
13.)Cassel
14.)Eli
15.)Bradford
[/quote]

I'm all sorts of confused.

1. Sanchez in the top 15 is absolutely ridiculous. He's awful.

2. Vick is 10th assuming last season was NOT a fluke? Really? If last season is how he's going to consistently play, he's got a fair claim to being top 3....

[justifythegame]

I kno im going to get a lot of heat for this, but i more objective than a typical fan. Flacco doesn't belong in the top 10. And the guys you have ranked lower than him have been able to carry their offenses on their back, Flacco's never thrown 4000 yards in todays league where the commish doesn't allow defenses to play like they should allowing for a record number of 4000 yard passers. And i won't call Flacco captain check down like most of our rivals do, but they make a good point whereas the people you ranked below don't use their HB as their #1 WR.

[WinnipegRaven]

Stafford is going to open a lot of eyes this season me thinks

[darklight1216]

[quote name='WinnipegRaven' timestamp='1303762065' post='670329']
Stafford is going to open a lot of eyes this season me thinks
[/quote]
If he can stay on the field...

[3-4ravdef509]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1303737006' post='670036']
I'm all sorts of confused.

1. Sanchez in the top 15 is absolutely ridiculous. He's awful.

2. Vick is 10th assuming last season was NOT a fluke? Really? If last season is how he's going to consistently play, he's got a fair claim to being top 3....
[/quote]


Well, it's all about perspective. Sanchez first of all is not awful. He's won as many playoff games as Joe, and has improved dramatically from year one to year two. He isn't up to par with Flacco and other top 10 qbs, but he's certainly better than qbs like Schuab and Cassel who have only had moderate success in the regular season.
Now for Vick. Personally I love the guy. And I think he's gonna do great. But it was one year. Unless to break some kind of passing record, one year on itself doesn't stick you in the top 3. Being in the top 10 is more than reasonable at this point. Also, keep in mind Vick has come up short in the playoffs.

[Blex64]

[quote name='justifythegame' timestamp='1303743521' post='670084']
I kno im going to get a lot of heat for this, but i more objective than a typical fan. Flacco doesn't belong in the top 10. And the guys you have ranked lower than him have been able to carry their offenses on their back, Flacco's never thrown 4000 yards in todays league where the commish doesn't allow defenses to play like they should allowing for a record number of 4000 yard passers. And i won't call Flacco captain check down like most of our rivals do, but they make a good point whereas the people you ranked below don't use their HB as their #1 WR.
[/quote]

What does throwing for 4000 yards have to do with anything? Guys like Orton and Schaub didn't get huge numbers because they were winning games, they got huge numbers because they didn't have an RB and were a completely one-dimensional football team. That doesn't make them great QBs, it makes them decent QBs who throw 50 pases a game.

Who should be above Flacco in the top 10? My criteria was:

1. Elite QBs
2. Good young QBs who could break into the elite tier (Flacco, Ryan, Freeman, etc.)
3. Good QBs who have proven they're never going to be top tier (Eli, Schaub, etc.)
4. The rest.

Flacco and Ryan are the 2 best "non-elite" QBs in the league, and I've said before that people are going to flip-flop them. But imo, with identical stats, Flacco's proven he can win in the playoffs where Ryan turns...well...into ice. This is what makes him the best "non-elite" QB in the league.

I think you should blame the "checkdown problems" partially on our OC and partially on our WRs. Joe missed the open man from time to time, but that's just part of progressing in the league. Consistent misuse of weapons isn't his fault though.


[quote name='3-4ravdef509' timestamp='1303801222' post='670718']
Well, it's all about perspective. Sanchez first of all is not awful. He's won as many playoff games as Joe, and has improved dramatically from year one to year two. He isn't up to par with Flacco and other top 10 qbs, but he's certainly better than qbs like Schuab and Cassel who have only had moderate success in the regular season.
Now for Vick. Personally I love the guy. And I think he's gonna do great. But it was one year. Unless to break some kind of passing record, one year on itself doesn't stick you in the top 3. Being in the top 10 is more than reasonable at this point. Also, keep in mind Vick has come up short in the playoffs.
[/quote]

Sanchez isn't awful? His "dramatic improvement" put him from terrible to not-quite so terrible. He had almost 1000 more yards, bu thats because he had 150 more throws this year then last. His rating at the end of the season was 75.3. He's about as good as Trent Dilfer, and is carried around by his team. He's definitely not better then Schaub and Cassel. Schaub's completion % was almost 10 points better, his rating was about 15 points higher (92 vs 75) and he had a thousand more yards. Cassel threw 100 less yards with 50 less passes, had a higher completion %, and threw 27 TDs 7 Ints vs 17 TDs 13 Ints.

Sanchez, at best, will only ever be mediocre.

As far as the Vick thing goes, maybe I just misunderstood you. The way its worded made it sound, to me, that you think Vick's spot is there if he keeps playing the way he did last year, that that is the highest he will go on the list.

[3-4ravdef509]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1303824440' post='670758']
What does throwing for 4000 yards have to do with anything? Guys like Orton and Schaub didn't get huge numbers because they were winning games, they got huge numbers because they didn't have an RB and were a completely one-dimensional football team. That doesn't make them great QBs, it makes them decent QBs who throw 50 pases a game.

Who should be above Flacco in the top 10? My criteria was:

1. Elite QBs
2. Good young QBs who could break into the elite tier (Flacco, Ryan, Freeman, etc.)
3. Good QBs who have proven they're never going to be top tier (Eli, Schaub, etc.)
4. The rest.

Flacco and Ryan are the 2 best "non-elite" QBs in the league, and I've said before that people are going to flip-flop them. But imo, with identical stats, Flacco's proven he can win in the playoffs where Ryan turns...well...into ice. This is what makes him the best "non-elite" QB in the league.

I think you should blame the "checkdown problems" partially on our OC and partially on our WRs. Joe missed the open man from time to time, but that's just part of progressing in the league. Consistent misuse of weapons isn't his fault though.




Sanchez isn't awful? His "dramatic improvement" put him from terrible to not-quite so terrible. He had almost 1000 more yards, bu thats because he had 150 more throws this year then last. His rating at the end of the season was 75.3. He's about as good as Trent Dilfer, and is carried around by his team. He's definitely not better then Schaub and Cassel. Schaub's completion % was almost 10 points better, his rating was about 15 points higher (92 vs 75) and he had a thousand more yards. Cassel threw 100 less yards with 50 less passes, had a higher completion %, and threw 27 TDs 7 Ints vs 17 TDs 13 Ints.

Sanchez, at best, will only ever be mediocre.

As far as the Vick thing goes, maybe I just misunderstood you. The way its worded made it sound, to me, that you think Vick's spot is there if he keeps playing the way he did last year, that that is the highest he will go on the list.
[/quote]


Once again, perspective. You're looking at Stats. I look more at acomplishments. Sanchez improved on the field in decision making and accuracy from 2009 to 2010. Then then won 2 more playoff games. And, he played against many tougher teams than Schuab did and won more games, including Schuab's team. Cassel is the same story. Weak schedule, playoff bust. Schuab is a good stat compiler, but hardly a great quarterback. He hasn't pushed his team to the playoffs yet. Sanchez isn't perfect, but anyone who says he's terrible is overlooking him. He's raw, and a little green. But he plays well enough to win, and doesn't hurt his team. He's even shown some clutch moments. I know it's also a team sport, but the defense let the Jets down during multiple points of the season, and Sanchez did carry the team at points. So to me, his acomplishments speak louder than his numbers. Until Schuab and Cassel can prove to be successful not just in the stat column, I can't justify putting them higher than a qb who's won just as many playoff games on the road as Flacco, in less time. That being said, Flacco is clearly better than Sanchez.

[JoeCool#5]

Flacco did amazing considering the PoS running game and OL we had last year. I cant count the number of times we saw 3 and inches not converted due to the OL getting blasted off the line.For the Ravens to go 12-4 in the regular season without a running game (relying heavily on the pass to move the ball), Joe and company deserves a metal.
Joe is still not elite though for there is still work to be done.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='purple.n.black' timestamp='1303714284' post='670017']
Yeah I'm gonna have to agree with Mr. ER20 on this one. There's a point where a guys game has declined so much that you just cannot still say "automatically puts him in the top ten", or even 20 for that matter. Don had his years, but he hasn't been that guy many of us remember. Rex Grossman of all people looked better than him on THE SAME TEAM. There is a reason why thee Eagles gave McNabb up cheap. And I don't look at the numbers, if you wanna go by that then did you notice McNabb has STILL yet to have a 4000yd season? He's been playing since the 90s! I go by what I see, the guy's efficiency and effectiveness relative to what they are provided with. Yeah the Skins suck, but Don wasn't/isn't good enough to change that. Top 10 QBs are.
[/quote]
[b]There's a point where a guys game has declined so much that you just cannot still say "automatically puts him in the top ten", or even 20 for that matter.[/b]( I cant agree with this at all). There are lots of variables here. [b]1.[/b] the lack of any real run game. [b]2.[/b] The lack of any good receivers not name T.0, or Deshaun Jackson the whole two or three years total he had them. [b]3.[/b] The Hits that Donovan has taken over the years (Spare me the every Qb takes hits, because we all know that some QB's take far more brutal hits than others. Cough, Cough. Add all that up, then watch the consistency of play which he was able to achieve over the course of his career, and I am going to say not only is he a top ten Qb, but one can argue one of the best to play the game at the position. I watch football, don't need stats to tell me anything. By the way if we got Donovan when Flacco started we would already have a ring, but our QB is in the top ten CMON NOW.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1303685911' post='669841']
While I don't subscribe to QBs being credited for wins, Roethlisberger has been credited with 19 comeback wins during his career and 25 game-winning drives.

I highly doubt Vick has a similar résumé.
[/quote]
19 comeback wins in his career impressive. Wonder how many came on the heels of that lights out Defense. Again numbers lie and people see what they want. Ill bet if you put Vick on the Steelers he would have found a way to beat Green bay this year. Arizona (please) and the first super bowl anybody could have been the QB. Ben is good, but better than Vick is a lie.

[RivenHale]

Vick had this one great, great year. Before that, he was the greatest mediocre quarterback ever, to paraphrase The Onion. Ben has had consistent success. I hate him as much as you do, but I hate him for the same reason you do - he's very, very good.

EDIT: I want it clear that I'm not taking anything away from Vick. I strongly believe he will come back this year and do the same thing all over again, because he's an excellent talent that just took a while to really shine, it seems like. But I also think that Ben has a better resume right now.

[purple.n.black]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1303999513' post='672021']
[b]There's a point where a guys game has declined so much that you just cannot still say "automatically puts him in the top ten", or even 20 for that matter.[/b]( I cant agree with this at all). There are lots of variables here. [b]1.[/b] the lack of any real run game. [b]2.[/b] The lack of any good receivers not name T.0, or Deshaun Jackson the whole two or three years total he had them. [b]3.[/b] The Hits that Donovan has taken over the years (Spare me the every Qb takes hits, because we all know that some QB's take far more brutal hits than others. Cough, Cough. Add all that up, then watch the consistency of play which he was able to achieve over the course of his career, and I am going to say not only is he a top ten Qb, but one can argue one of the best to play the game at the position. I watch football, don't need stats to tell me anything. By the way if we got Donovan when Flacco started we would already have a ring, but our QB is in the top ten CMON NOW.
[/quote]
You're entitled to your opinion. But like I stated, I made that list with the past season in mind. Not Donovan 5 years ago. Also the brutal hits he's taken only proves my point more. A guy getting hit hard a lot and losing some ability isn't going to make me rank him higher. The point is he HAS lost A LOT of skill. And MAYBE we would have a ring if we got Don in 2008. But with Flacco we have a good chance to get numerous rings. With Don, maybe in 2008 we could have, but after that he wouldn't contribute enough.
And with your first point there, does that make Brett Favre the 3rd best QB in the league? Cause at his best he was a lot better than McNabb. Or does nearly a 1:2 TD to INT ratio RECENTLY kill that for you? How about if Brady stayed in the league till he was 85 (won't happen just trying to make a point), he's still in the top ten just cause? Where is it that you draw the line if at all since you said "I can't agree with this at all"?

[ellicottraven]

All I know is at the end of the 2011 season the list is going to look somewhat like this...
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Joe Flacco
The rest I really don't care!!!!!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1304001342' post='672036']
19 comeback wins in his career impressive. Wonder how many came on the heels of that lights out Defense. Again numbers lie and people see what they want. Ill bet if you put Vick on the Steelers he would have found a way to beat Green bay this year. Arizona (please) and the first super bowl anybody could have been the QB. Ben is good, but better than Vick is a lie.
[/quote]

Does it matter? The man delivers in crunch time.

Kyle Boller had a great defense for years and had opportunities to close tight games out but he rarely did. We've seen Flacco do so at times but he's failed on occasion too. Roethlisberger, on the other hand, frequently comes through.

Great bet. You know what actually did happen? The Eagles lost to the Packers.

It's not a lie. You have your opinions and I have mine. You have no way to prove Vick is a better QB than Ben though.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1304023850' post='672275']
Does it matter? The man delivers in crunch time.

Kyle Boller had a great defense for years and had opportunities to close tight games out but he rarely did. We've seen Flacco do so at times but he's failed on occasion too. Roethlisberger, on the other hand, frequently comes through.

Great bet. You know what actually did happen? The Eagles lost to the Packers.

It's not a lie. You have your opinions and I have mine. You have no way to prove Vick is a better QB than Ben though.
[/quote]
lol just the tape

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='purple.n.black' timestamp='1304014337' post='672188']
You're entitled to your opinion. But like I stated, I made that list with the past season in mind. Not Donovan 5 years ago. Also the brutal hits he's taken only proves my point more. A guy getting hit hard a lot and losing some ability isn't going to make me rank him higher. The point is he HAS lost A LOT of skill. And MAYBE we would have a ring if we got Don in 2008. But with Flacco we have a good chance to get numerous rings. With Don, maybe in 2008 we could have, but after that he wouldn't contribute enough.
And with your first point there, does that make Brett Favre the 3rd best QB in the league? Cause at his best he was a lot better than McNabb. Or does nearly a 1:2 TD to INT ratio RECENTLY kill that for you? How about if Brady stayed in the league till he was 85 (won't happen just trying to make a point), he's still in the top ten just cause? Where is it that you draw the line if at all since you said "I can't agree with this at all"?
[/quote]
I judge performance over the duration of your career. Bret most picks and most touchdowns obviously good, but top three not at all. Mcnabb is better than Bret also. My Opinion.