Flacco Vs Ryan

[Bltravens]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1303260383' post='667461']
Clayton was a quality receiver in his first two seasons until he got hurt. Nagging injuries and issues in his personal life were a huge detriment to his game. It was only in 2009 that he started to get re-focused, and then he had a promising 2010 until he got hurt.
[/quote]
I didnt know he had personal issues?

[ravensdfan]

I like the Falcons. I like Ryan. All the media love is making it hard to keep that like alive though. I'm glad that Joe has someone in the media hubbub sticking up for him.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1303248467' post='667225']
Ryan is better. [b]He has leadership in him[/b], and his willing to carry the load on his back when chips falls down. Skill-set wise, both are decent QBs. They both have trouble dealing with blitz, maybe Flacco is worse but not by far. [b]If majority of our aging defense starts leaving, Flacco's career will be done for.[/b]
[/quote]

More like he's on a team bereft of leadership and has become one by default because of the position he plays.

Your last statement is just ridiculous.

[atljbo]

I cant sit hear and say Matt Ryan is way better then Flacco... Flacco has playoff wins....


I will say this tho... I dont get why ppl say Matt Ryan gets all this love... When we lose in the playoffs... Matt Ryan gets all the blame... No one ever and i mean ever brings up that our D didnt force the Packers to punt the freakin ball 1.... yea... 1 time... But its all on Matt Ryan (dude didnt have a good game at all either) ... That game was a freak of nature type game... The Falcons didnt everything wrong (besides the punt return) and the Packers did everything right... Im not taking anything from the packers... They are the champs... That game was just out of the ordinary... We beat the Packers ealier that year.... But i mean... They didnt punt the ball once that game.. Our D does not suck... Its just they are young and saved their worst game for the playoffs... I mean they missed 5 sacks on Rodgers... The had their hands on him but just didnt wrap up.


But thats the biggest difference to me... If the Ravens did that.... Ray Lewis and that D would have to choulder that blame.

Ive said it before... I think Flacco is a good QB that has improved every year... He and Matt Ryan is in the same level under that young 2nd tier QB's (with potential to be in that elite class) ... I just feel like Ryan is above him... For us to win... Ryan has to produce.

But to answer that question... As of now i have to be honest... Flacco is in the position to win a championship first as of now... The Ravens has the D... If you check out all the latest superbowl champions... The Defenses showed up in the playoffs to save the day atleast 1 or 2 games.

[darklight1216]

^ Overuse of ellipses. Five yards, still first down.

In all seriousness though, Matt Ryan got into the pro-bowl over Rodgers. You can't say that he doesn't get love.

[atljbo]

[quote name='darklight1216' timestamp='1303348509' post='667988']
^ Overuse of ellipses. Five yards, still first down.

In all seriousness though, Matt Ryan got into the pro-bowl over Rodgers. You can't say that he doesn't get love.
[/quote]


He gets love... No doubt but i feel like he is not overly loved like most of you saying on here.... By the way to me Rodgers and Matt Ryan was suppose to make the probowl... Brees is the one that shouldn't have been on that probowl roster

You also have to remember... when the voting was going on... The Packers was not in the playoff picture.. they was fighting to get in place to go for that 8th playoff spot

[ed.s52]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1303349332' post='667994']
He gets love... No doubt but i feel like he is not overly loved like most of you saying on here.... By the way to me Rodgers and Matt Ryan was suppose to make the probowl... Brees is the one that shouldn't have been on that probowl roster

You also have to remember... when the voting was going on... The Packers was not in the playoff picture.. they was fighting to get in place to go for that 8th playoff spot
[/quote]

Ussually I don't correct people on their grammar, in fact it is a pet peeve of mine, but when I was reading it in my head I just could not stop thinking about it after the multiple repitions.

Multiple Nouns=Were (not was)

[Romo Ravens]

Both are great, young QB's with tons of potential. No one is worst, no one is better.. Until one wins his first SB.

[ed.s52]

I don't know what youre talking about, I spelled it with an A

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1303350465' post='668009']
I don't know what youre talking about, I spelled it with an A
[/quote]

The "Edit" option: saving members from making epic fails one day at a time.

[-Truth-]

This is a comment.

[ed.s52]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1303351137' post='668016']
I know you spelled it with an a, I haven't said anything about it. (Delete button FTW lol) [b][size="1"]Pssst: It's "their"[/size]
[/b][/quote]


Still have no idea what you are talking about.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Clutch Ravens' timestamp='1303230649' post='667067']
Don't forget that the Panthers only had one legitimate talent on the D-line in Charles Johnson. Their defensive tackles were pathetic and a combination of Everette Brown/Greg Hardy etc. accross from Johnson got next to no pressure.
[/quote]

I wasn't even counting the Panthers. Their offensive issues (no quarterback, aging receiving core, aging run game) made it impossible for them to win games. The two teams they beat were 6-10 and 5-11 on the season, and both were west coast teams playing on the road. The teams also had quarterback issues. However you want to slice it, though, the fact remains the NFC South is not the AFC North.

[atljbo]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1303360292' post='668072']
I wasn't even counting the Panthers. Their offensive issues (no quarterback, aging receiving core, aging run game) made it impossible for them to win games. The two teams they beat were 6-10 and 5-11 on the season, and both were west coast teams playing on the road. The teams also had quarterback issues. However you want to slice it, though, the fact remains the NFC South is not the AFC North.
[/quote]
The NFC South is probably the best division in the NFL... The saints a playoff team.. The Falcons a playoff team... The Bucs a borderline Playoff team (10 win team) ... The Panthers suck now but they have talent


Panthers are struggling now but they are a QB away from contending... They have a talented O-Line (Gross *probowl*, Kalil *probowl*, and Otah) , 3 RB's that can almost start for any team (Jonathan Stewart 24 years old, DeAngelo Williams 27 years old, and Mike Goodson 23 years old) ,and Some good young and old WR (steve smith, David Gattis, and Lafell) .

On D they are just as talented... 2 good young safeties, a probowl LB (beason) , 3 young DE's that looked good last year and have potential (charles johnson is one of them) ... I feel like They are in the same situation as the Bucs 2 years ago... When they find a good QB .. They will get good fast.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1303360292' post='668072']
I wasn't even counting the Panthers. Their offensive issues (no quarterback, aging receiving core, aging run game) made it impossible for them to win games. The two teams they beat were 6-10 and 5-11 on the season, and both were west coast teams playing on the road. The teams also had quarterback issues. However you want to slice it, though, the fact remains the NFC South is not the AFC North.
[/quote]
When you're referring to the aging run game, are you referring to the RB corps? Because DeAngelo Williams is 27, Jonathan Stewart is 24 and Mike Goodson is 23. Sounds like a pretty youthful corps to me. And out of their OL starters, only Jordan Gross is over 26.

[atljbo]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1303364529' post='668098']
When you're referring to the aging run game, are you referring to the RB corps? Because DeAngelo Williams is 27, Jonathan Stewart is 24 and Mike Goodson is 23. Sounds like a pretty youthful corps to me. And out of their OL starters, only Jordan Gross is over 26.
[/quote]


Gross and Kalil are probowlers

[-Truth-]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1303365545' post='668106']
Gross and Kalil are probowlers
[/quote]
Well, Kalil is merely 26. So out of every starter from their OL and RB corps, only one starter is over 27. Sure, their best Offensive Lineman is 30, but that's an incredible amount of youth. Definitely wouldn't call their run game aging.

[Clutch Ravens]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1303363385' post='668092']
The NFC South is probably the best division in the NFL... The saints a playoff team.. [b]The Falcons a playoff team[/b]... The Bucs a borderline Playoff team (10 win team) ... The Panthers suck now but they have talent


Panthers are struggling now but they are a QB away from contending... They have a talented O-Line (Gross *probowl*, Kalil *probowl*, and Otah) , 3 RB's that can almost start for any team (Jonathan Stewart 24 years old, DeAngelo Williams 27 years old, and Mike Goodson 23 years old) ,and Some good young and old WR (steve smith, David Gattis, and Lafell) .

On D they are just as talented... 2 good young safeties, a probowl LB (beason) , 3 young DE's that looked good last year and have potential (charles johnson is one of them) ... I feel like They are in the same situation as the Bucs 2 years ago... When they find a good QB .. They will get good fast.
[/quote]

To be a legit playoff team you have to actually win a playoff game.

[atljbo]

[quote name='Clutch Ravens' timestamp='1303368621' post='668120']
To be a legit playoff team you have to actually win a playoff game.
[/quote]


I'm sure the Colts was a legit playoff team and it took Peyton Manning 6 seasons to win a playoff game... But no doubt .... We have to win a playoff game... Matt Ryan has to win a post season game.

[Suggs Package]

I know I'm going to ruffle a few feathers with this, but I think Matty Ice is slightly better at this point in his career. Saying a QB won in the playoffs for a TEAM sport is not fair for individual evaluation. If it were, that would mean that Brad Johnson was better than Dan Marino and other atrocities.

Playoff arguments aside, I think Ryan and Flacco are really good QBs, but Ryan just seems to have a better grasp on reading coverages, getting rid of the ball, and just minimizing negative plays.

Flacco has elite athletic ability however and will be better than Ryan in two years, or whenever everything clicks and he gets more comfortable.

Basically, if I wanted to win a game right now, I would want Ryan. If I wanted a QB for the next 10 years, I would want Flacco.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1303363385' post='668092']
The NFC South is probably the best division in the NFL... The saints a playoff team.. The Falcons a playoff team... The Bucs a borderline Playoff team (10 win team) ... The Panthers suck now but they have talent


Panthers are struggling now but they are a QB away from contending... They have a talented O-Line (Gross *probowl*, Kalil *probowl*, and Otah) , 3 RB's that can almost start for any team (Jonathan Stewart 24 years old, DeAngelo Williams 27 years old, and Mike Goodson 23 years old) ,and Some good young and old WR (steve smith, David Gattis, and Lafell) .

On D they are just as talented... 2 good young safeties, a probowl LB (beason) , 3 young DE's that looked good last year and have potential (charles johnson is one of them) ... I feel like They are in the same situation as the Bucs 2 years ago... When they find a good QB .. They will get good fast.
[/quote]


I agree with you to a point about the panthers. this years draft is they Key, There is in my opinion no franchise quarterback in this draft. (oh and warren moon I am not racist.) Or at least one deserving the overall pick. Carolina has a young core that can be very lethal in the future, they should add to it and not stretch for the QB. They have Jon Beason, Richard Marshall, Chris Gamble ( who are very serviceable corners.) and offense they are extremely dangerous except at their WR corps. If they were to trade down 3 or fours picks pick AJ green of Julio Jones, and then next year pick upo the Qb that may actually deserve a first overall pick (maybe Andrew Luck, Terelle Pryor, Kirk cousins, or Ryan Lindley.) In two years could be competing for the division but only if they play it smart.

As for who wins first, If flacco doesnt do it soon it is going to be HARDER not impossible but much more difficult with the aging defense and WR's we could be hurting. WE only have a few holes but the production we would get out of a younger guy versus the production we get from some of the best draft steals of all time i.e. Reed, Lewis is going to hurt us also. And here in baltimore this draft will tell us what kind of team we are going to be in the future defensive or offensive, so only time will tell.

[atljbo]

[quote name='Suggs Package' timestamp='1303405294' post='668241']
I know I'm going to ruffle a few feathers with this, but I think Matty Ice is slightly better at this point in his career. Saying a QB won in the playoffs for a TEAM sport is not fair for individual evaluation. If it were, that would mean that Brad Johnson was better than Dan Marino and other atrocities.

Playoff arguments aside, I think Ryan and Flacco are really good QBs, but Ryan just seems to have a better grasp on reading coverages, getting rid of the ball, and just minimizing negative plays.

Flacco has elite athletic ability however and will be better than Ryan in two years, or whenever everything clicks and he gets more comfortable.

Basically, if I wanted to win a game right now, I would want Ryan. If I wanted a QB for the next 10 years, I would want Flacco.
[/quote]


I agree and disagree.... I agree that when Flacco is a good young QB .. When he puts it all together.. Dude is going to be awesome... on the other end... Matt Ryan is sneaky athletic (at the combine his ten yard split was faster then Flacco's) ... Regardless.. Let at the 3 best QB's in the League... Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Rivers are probably the 3 most un-athletic QB's in the league..lol ... But they have awesome pocket presence (thats probably the thing Ryan improved on the most this year) .

Both guys are good QB's tho... I wish the Nfl set it up that we play you guys atleast once every 2 years instead of once every 4 years... But some how.. We play every preseason..lol

[Suggs Package]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1303408744' post='668266']
I agree and disagree.... I agree that when Flacco is a good young QB .. When he puts it all together.. Dude is going to be awesome... on the other end... Matt Ryan is sneaky athletic (at the combine his ten yard split was faster then Flacco's) ... Regardless.. Let at the 3 best QB's in the League... Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Rivers are probably the 3 most un-athletic QB's in the league..lol ... But they have awesome pocket presence (thats probably the thing Ryan improved on the most this year) .

Both guys are good QB's tho... I wish the Nfl set it up that we play you guys atleast once every 2 years instead of once every 4 years... But some how.. We play every preseason..lol
[/quote]
As in athletic for a QB, I meant arm strength and accuracy. But right on.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1303248467' post='667225']
Ryan is better. He has leadership in him, and his willing to carry the load on his back when chips falls down. Skill-set wise, both are decent QBs. They both have trouble dealing with blitz, maybe Flacco is worse but not by far. If majority of our aging defense starts leaving, Flacco's career will be done for.
[/quote]

First off I don't feel Ryan is better then Flacco, I think he's as good, right now, but i think Flacco will be close to Manning/Brady like special in a few years. I actually thought this even before he was a Ravens so i don't feel it's homerism.

Secondly, just because NFL Films always shows clips of Ryan, yelling and barking doesn't make him a better leader. Saying he has leadership in him, as a reason for him being better then Flacco is like saying, he's better because he has a bigger shoe size. They both have leadership, they just show it in different ways. Flacco is on a team full of leaders and really doesn't have to take that step right now. For my money, as long a RL52 is on this team, he'll always be the leader.

Flacco took big steps in his leadership last season. Remember, Flacco was dealing with 2 new WRs, one of which joined the team a week before the season. He was responsible for making sure Boldin and TJ were lined up right in the formation for much of the first 4 games or so. Flacco was also dealing with 3 very strong WRs personality wise, and other then the Mason incident, he held them in check. Flacco was seen a few times barking at TJ to get his butt in the huddle. So he really started to take hold of this offense from a players perspective, the next step is the coaches allowing him to take control.

For much of the first half of season, Joe Flacco was the highest rated QB in the NFL when facing the blitz. Not Manning, not Brady, not Brees, Rivers, or even Ryan, but Flacco. Also remember this came while facing teams like the Jets, Steelers, Patriots, Browns, Bengals, and the Broncos, who all had no problem blitzing him.

As for the aging defense leaving and Flacco's career being done. Well i can point out at least 5 regular season games the Ravens have lost in Flacco's 3 years that the majority of the blame can be placed on that aging defense.

[Ravensfan23]

I think one of the biggest reasons why many people would be willing to take Ryan over Flacco right now, is his homefield record. However people fail to mention that Flacco has been just as good as Ryan at home. Here's a look at their career home records, and their last 2 season average stats(not the rookie years)

Flacco is 19-5 W/L in his career at M&T Bank. Over the last 2 seasons his avg numbers look like this. 1922.5 yds 12.5 TD, 3INT, 102.9 passer rating, 65.4%

Ryan is 20-2 W/L in his career at the Dome. Over the last 2 seasons his avg numbers look like this. 1481.5 yds 13 TD, 3.5INT, 96.6 passer rating, 64.4%.

So as you can see their numbers are almost identical, expect the fact that Flacco has a higher passer rating. Flacco has connected on about 23.5 big plays(passes of 20+ yards) over the last 2 seasons, while Ryan connected on about 13.5 big plays(passes of 20+ yards). So depending on who you ask, some might even say Flacco has outperformed Ryan in home games.

I think the fact that the Falcons play in perfect conditions every week, and the fact that they didn't play as many tough opponents as the Ravens did over the last 3 years. The Falcons have played a total of 3 playoff teams at home with Ryan under center. While the Ravens have faced 7 playoff teams at home over the last 3 seasons.

I think both QBs are really good, but for my money, I'll take Flacco. His floor is the same as Ryan's but his ceiling is so much higher imo.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Suggs Package' timestamp='1303405294' post='668241']
I know I'm going to ruffle a few feathers with this, but I think Matty Ice is slightly better at this point in his career. Saying a QB won in the playoffs for a TEAM sport is not fair for individual evaluation. If it were, that would mean that Brad Johnson was better than Dan Marino and other atrocities.

Playoff arguments aside, I think Ryan and Flacco are really good QBs, but Ryan just seems to have a better grasp on reading coverages, getting rid of the ball, and just minimizing negative plays.

Flacco has elite athletic ability however and will be better than Ryan in two years, or whenever everything clicks and he gets more comfortable.

Basically, if I wanted to win a game right now, I would want Ryan. If I wanted a QB for the next 10 years, I would want Flacco.
[/quote]

First off I'll say i think the Ryan vs Flacco debate is completely unfair to both guys, because unless they are playing the same teams in the same situations, you can't really compare them.

However, I would like to know why exactly would you choose Ryan over Flacco to win just one game? Is it just your opinion that Ryan reads defenses a bit better. If that's the case then that's a faulty rating system imo.

I think the first thing you gotta do is understand the differences between both offenses. Ryan is in pretty much the same offensive system he was in at BC, and that's more of a one read offense. Ryan has his 1st option, 2nd option and dump off option. In that offense the ball is meant to come out of Ryan's hands quickly. Each WR has to be at a spot and Ryan gets the ball to them depending upon what he sees at the snap of the ball.

This type of offense is a bit simpler imo as a fan. That takes nothing away from Ryan because he operates it well.

On the other hand, Cam's offense and route combinations are much more complex. Cam's offense is designed for Flacco to hold the ball a bit longer to allow routes to develop down field. The WRs run a lot of option routes and also have the freedom to free-lance at times. That makes decision making for a QB much more difficult imo. The fact that Flacco's TD-INT ratio has improved each year, as well as his numbers against the blitz tells me that Flacco is doing a really good job continuing to master Cam's offense.

Now i'm not saying you're wrong in your choice of Ryan for one game, but sometimes, things that are at a distance seems much more appealing to us. However if Ryan was in a Ravens uniform and Flacco in a Falcons, you're opinion and views might be a bit different.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='atljbo' timestamp='1303363385' post='668092']
The NFC South is probably the best division in the NFL... The saints a playoff team.. The Falcons a playoff team... The Bucs a borderline Playoff team (10 win team) ... The Panthers suck now but they have talent


Panthers are struggling now but they are a QB away from contending... They have a talented O-Line (Gross *probowl*, Kalil *probowl*, and Otah) , 3 RB's that can almost start for any team (Jonathan Stewart 24 years old, DeAngelo Williams 27 years old, and Mike Goodson 23 years old) ,and Some good young and old WR (steve smith, David Gattis, and Lafell) .

On D they are just as talented... 2 good young safeties, a probowl LB (beason) , 3 young DE's that looked good last year and have potential (charles johnson is one of them) ... I feel like They are in the same situation as the Bucs 2 years ago... When they find a good QB .. They will get good fast.
[/quote]


I'm talking specifically about offensive personnel and defenses faced... if Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan switched teams, I think Joe's stats would be even better, and Ryan's would get worse.

[Suggs Package]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1303456599' post='668587']
First off I'll say i think the Ryan vs Flacco debate is completely unfair to both guys, because unless they are playing the same teams in the same situations, you can't really compare them.

However, I would like to know why exactly would you choose Ryan over Flacco to win just one game? Is it just your opinion that Ryan reads defenses a bit better. If that's the case then that's a faulty rating system imo.

I think the first thing you gotta do is understand the differences between both offenses. Ryan is in pretty much the same offensive system he was in at BC, and that's more of a one read offense. Ryan has his 1st option, 2nd option and dump off option. In that offense the ball is meant to come out of Ryan's hands quickly. Each WR has to be at a spot and Ryan gets the ball to them depending upon what he sees at the snap of the ball.

This type of offense is a bit simpler imo as a fan. That takes nothing away from Ryan because he operates it well.

On the other hand, Cam's offense and route combinations are much more complex. Cam's offense is designed for Flacco to hold the ball a bit longer to allow routes to develop down field. The WRs run a lot of option routes and also have the freedom to free-lance at times. That makes decision making for a QB much more difficult imo. The fact that Flacco's TD-INT ratio has improved each year, as well as his numbers against the blitz tells me that Flacco is doing a really good job continuing to master Cam's offense.

Now i'm not saying you're wrong in your choice of Ryan for one game, but sometimes, things that are at a distance seems much more appealing to us. However if Ryan was in a Ravens uniform and Flacco in a Falcons, you're opinion and views might be a bit different.
[/quote]
Yeah you're right. These comparisons are purely subjective and there's no way to do an accurate comparison between the two unless they were competing for the same starting spot. So I based my decision on how they are performing in their respective offenses. And with that you kinda proved my point.

Right now, the game comes easier with Ryan because he had to make far less of an adjustment from college to the NFL. Ryan makes better decisions in his offense than Flacco does. So I'm saying in one game at this very moment, I would pick Ryan in Mularkey's offense, even if he were with the Ravens, over Flacco in Cam's offense even with if he was in Atlanta. Essentially, since they are both young, I'm just going with the guy who was better prepared for the NFL and has a better grasp of his respective system.

I'm pretty sure I won't feel the same way after next season and onwards because Flacco has a much higher ceiling than Ryan in my opinion. I watch as much Falcons games as Ravens games with a big chunk of my family being from ATL and even have a couple college friends play for the Falcons at some point, so it's not at much of a distance as it may seem. But do you understand my rationale?

BTW, the reason ATL's offense seem like a 2 read offense is because Mularkey is a coordinator who fits his scheme to his personnel unlike Cam's where the personnel has the fit the scheme. So Mularkey scheme, isn't really a scheme at all. And right now in ATL, there are only two real playmakers for Matt Ryan, therefore the "two reads", depending on coverage. That's why Roddy White is almost 40% of the passing offense by himself.

[Free Agent]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1303225115' post='667014']
Give Joe Flacco Roddy White and Ryan Derrick Mason. Then let Ryan play the Steelers twice and Joe the Panthers twice. Let's see who has the better numbers.
[/quote]

Exactly. The road to the playoffs is so much easier for the Falcons.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Suggs Package' timestamp='1303472307' post='668601']
Yeah you're right. These comparisons are purely subjective and there's no way to do an accurate comparison between the two unless they were competing for the same starting spot. So I based my decision on how they are performing in their respective offenses. And with that you kinda proved my point.

Right now, the game comes easier with Ryan because he had to make far less of an adjustment from college to the NFL. Ryan makes better decisions in his offense than Flacco does. So I'm saying in one game at this very moment, I would pick Ryan in Mularkey's offense, even if he were with the Ravens, over Flacco in Cam's offense even with if he was in Atlanta. Essentially, since they are both young, I'm just going with the guy who was better prepared for the NFL and has a better grasp of his respective system.

I'm pretty sure I won't feel the same way after next season and onwards because Flacco has a much higher ceiling than Ryan in my opinion. I watch as much Falcons games as Ravens games with a big chunk of my family being from ATL and even have a couple college friends play for the Falcons at some point, so it's not at much of a distance as it may seem. But do you understand my rationale?

BTW, the reason ATL's offense seem like a 2 read offense is because Mularkey is a coordinator who fits his scheme to his personnel unlike Cam's where the personnel has the fit the scheme. So Mularkey scheme, isn't really a scheme at all. And right now in ATL, there are only two real playmakers for Matt Ryan, therefore the "two reads", depending on coverage. That's why Roddy White is almost 40% of the passing offense by himself.
[/quote]

yea i understand what you're saying, and like i said before I'm not saying your wrong in your choice. Matty is a really good QB, I just feel like one of the biggest reasons that Flacco doesn't seem to excel as well as Ryan in his respective offense is more because of the people around him.

When you have a oline that isn't playing exceptionally well, it's makes Cam's offense even harder to execute.

What i meant about things being different with the QBs on opposite teams is, If Flacco and Cam were in ATL, and all things were the same in 10', if Flacco compiles the same numbers and wins as Ryan, what would be your opinion of Flacco. On the other hand if, Ryan was in a Ravens uniform, and he had Todd Heap drop a TD, Boldin run a wrong route leading to a Int, and Housh getting a PI call in the endzone, all in the Jets game with prevented him from being one of only 2 QBs to pass for 300+ yards and 3TDs against the Jets defense; would that change you view of the way Ryan performed.

What if Ryan had both Boldin and Mason drop TDs in the overtime lost to NE, what if Ryan had Boldin drop a key TD, and Housh dropping a drive continuing pass on 4th down in the playoff lost to the Steelers? Would your opinion of Ryan change even though most of these things were out of his control?

Now like i've said before you're not wrong, and you are a lot different from most of us who take part in this debate because you actually get to watch a heavy dose of both Ryan and Flacco. I agree 100% that Ryan is more comfortable in his system and came into the NFL better prepared. However i still believe that Flacco is much more clutch then Ryan, it's just unfortunate that he's let down by his teammates in some of the biggest spots.

What if Hauskca doesn't miss a game winning FG against the Vikings, what if Mark Clayton doesn't drop a 4th down pass that hit him right in the hands in a 6 point loss to NE, what if Mason doesn't drop a wide open TD against the Steelers that would have given the Ravens 27-20 led in the 4th quarter of a game they lost 20-23, what if Ryan led his team back against Flacco, but his defense allowed Flacco to go 80 yards to win the game, how would all of these events change the perception of Matt Ryan.

Most times people look past the actual game and look to numbers, stats, and results as their deciding point of who's better(not saying you do), each one of these events that I've mention were plays that came in losses, and players that were out of Flacco's hands. He actually made the play, or got his team in position to win, the surrounding pieces just failed him. If the players around Flacco came through in these situations, Flacco would be viewed as a player who came up big, in road games, against division leading opponents. Instead, people just view Flacco as a decent QB who needs to play better in big game. While Flacco could and will play better in bigger games, his teammates need to start helping him out when it matters the most.

I've seen Flacco bring his bring his team back from a double digit hole against the hated Steelers in Pittsburg, I've seen Flacco lead potential game winning drives against the defensive mastery of Bilichek in Foxbrough, I've seen Flacco, come up big when his team needed him most in the playoff game against the #1 seeded Titans his rookie year, I've seen Flacco pull his offense together and lead them on a drive that should have resulted in a TD, that would have given the Ravens a 28-24 lead against the Steelers in the playoff after the offense had the worse 3rd quarter in history. Unfortunately for Flacco, most of these games resulted in a loss because his team failed him.

On the other hand, I've seen Ryan struggle in both of his playoff games, I've seen him struggle in other big games, where his team bailed him out. I've seen him get praised and given credit for leading a game winning drive when the return team got him out all the way across the 50 yardline and all he had to do was get about 20 yards for a FG. Now admittedly, you've seen much more of Ryan then I have, but for my money, if i need one win on the road or at home, I'll take Flacco. I'd just hope his teammates come to play as well.