The Qb Controversy Won't End

[foreversunny23]

Keep in mind that Boller's numbers were thanks in a large part to Derrick Mason. Take away 3 completions for 54 yards and you get 8/12 for 48 yards and one interception. That's worse than Troy Smith. Troy Smith had to throw to rookies and McCants (a free agent).

We will have a clearer picture when Smith gets the first string offense. With Mason, Clayton, and maybe Heap to throw to, Smith's number will probably be way better than his play against New England.

[berad]

I believe the play ended when he threw the interception. Or was it when he fumbled the ball?

Smith-led drives were 0/4 on 3rd downs. Boller-led drives were 2/5. Tell me which is better.

[FerrariFan87]

Let's give each of our guys a shot a playing with the ones before we make any snap, no pun intended, judgments...

[berad]

That's not the point he is trying to make. A screen pass is just like handing off the ball to the rb. It should be a gimme. So to add that into an argument about how he completed an odd amount of passes isn't really a reliable point.

Screen passes are actually not "just like handing off". They require more movement and coordination from an inexperience OL than running plays. They also rely on the QB to evade the oncoming pass-rush and get a clean and catchable ball to the receiever (something Smith could not do, he had one of his attempted screens tipped away and couldn't complete others).

I think people are getting to worked up over this 11 out 15 for 100+ yards stat. it still averages out to be less than 10 yrds a pass, infact 6.8 yrds and attempt . Not to mention the majority of those yards came on the ground from YAC. He went an entire half with out getting into the redzone...or without scoring a touchdown.

Kyle actually did play in the redzone and guided our team to its only TD. Albeit, it was only 2 yards away thanks to Figurs, but it's a fact. Troy smith only average 6.16 yds/attempt. Kyle did better.

You guys are all pumped up over boller cuz he threw a couple of decent passes against a team's defense who were taking there 1st snaps of the 2008 season. As the game progressed Boller showed his true self but the Boller lovers aren't including that into their argument.

The Offense was also taking their 1st snaps, it's all relative. I'm not saying he had a great game, but he definitely did better than Troy Smith.

If he would have had a full game's worth of stats based on his 1st half performance he would have been 22/30 WOW...for 204 yrds with 2 interceptions and 2 fumbles....

Kyle Boller didn't play the entire 1st half, so this isn't really valid.

[RavensIQ]

^^^^Are you serious with that thread?

I see I have you hanging on my every word. Only you would argue every single sentence and still make no point.

About the "redzone thing" let me rephrase it since ur having difficulty comprehending logic. "Kyle Boller did not lead (lead-to direct on a course or in a direction) the offense to the redzone 1 time during the 1st half" a lil better?

Your absolutely right about the screen not literally being like a handoff. That's not even what im trying to get out with that anology. I was using that point to help you understand another point made by a different poster...talk about off subject.

The point is IT'S A SCREEN!! My grand mother could have made that pass. It's not like he had to look off the safeties, double pump a corner make a read and then hit his man in stride. He threw it to a guy wide open standing still Hardly anything to get excited over. Screens made up nearly half of his completions...

At the end of the day Boller walked away with 2 turnovers, no TD, no big play, no offensive drive, didn't even make it inside of the redzone ,and he didn't look all that impressive to me. Maybe I'm the only with a pair of eyes that actually work but if I'm not mistaken it looked like the same ol kyle boller...you know the guy who has the same amount of interceptions as he does td's over his 6 yr career accompanied by 36 fumbles....

[bossman419]

^^^^Are you serious with that thread?

I see I have you hanging on my every word. Only you would argue every single sentence and still make no point.

About the "redzone thing" let me rephrase it since ur having difficulty comprehending logic. "Kyle Boller did not lead (lead-to direct on a course or in a direction) the offense to the redzone 1 time during the 1st half" a lil better?

Your absolutely right about the screen not literally being like a handoff. That's not even what im trying to get out with that anology. I was using that point to help you understand another point made by a different poster...talk about off subject.

The point is IT'S A SCREEN!! My grand mother could have made that pass. It's not like he had to look off the safeties, double pump a corner make a read and then hit his man in stride. He threw it to a guy wide open standing still Hardly anything to get excited over. Screens made up nearly half of his completions...

At the end of the day Boller walked away with 2 turnovers, no TD, no big play, no offensive drive, didn't even make it inside of the redzone ,and he didn't look all that impressive to me. Maybe I'm the only with a pair of eyes that actually work but if I'm not mistaken it looked like the same ol kyle boller...you know the guy who has the same amount of interceptions as he does td's over his 6 yr career accompanied by 36 fumbles....

it sounds like you just dont have faith in boller. look, right now he's our best option, as much as i want troy to start he has not shown me that he can run the offense. that might change when he starts the next game

i hope flacco gets in with the 1st or 2nd team next game, he had no time behind that bandaid O line

[BAL_Hawk]

it sounds like you just dont have faith in boller. look, right now he's our best option, as much as i want troy to start he has not shown me that he can run the offense. that might change when he starts the next game

i hope flacco gets in with the 1st or 2nd team next game, he had no time behind that bandaid O line

Oh please... It sounds like everyone has been reading too much of the Baltimore Sun. Those guys are trying to speculate the entire season based on every injury and throw that happens. It's training camp! It's pre-season! What do you expect?

Honestly, I'm cool with whatever Cameron and Harbaugh decide. Harbaugh's right. All three quarterbacks have talent. They just need to play it out. Personally, I think that Troy should start, but what do I know?

Looking at statistics tells us virtually nothing. Football isn't about statistics. It's about hard work and discipline. Getting to know players personally and watching them in person is how you tell what they're made of.

The coaches are in the best place to make decisions. They've lived their lives in football. Their jobs are on the line. They'll make the right choice. This squabbling does and means nothing. When the coaches decide who's starting, we'll know who to cheer on and who's best for our offense.

[smashmouth]

Keep in mind that Boller's numbers were thanks in a large part to Derrick Mason. Take away 3 completions for 54 yards and you get 8/12 for 48 yards and one interception. That's worse than Troy Smith. Troy Smith had to throw to rookies and McCants (a free agent).

We will have a clearer picture when Smith gets the first string offense. With Mason, Clayton, and maybe Heap to throw to, Smith's number will probably be way better than his play against New England.

Dosent Matter that it was Mason who caught His passes, Boller still is the one who Threw it to Him, and Boller played with a patchwork offense also.. Not nearly all the starters was in.

People just wont get over the Fact that Troy had a bad game, and hasnt shown that he deserves to be the starter, this entire week at practice Troy Has looked the worse and He's playing with the First string, Just remember this "Troy had to throw to rookies" well if He's playing with the 2nd and 3rd string then that Means He's ALSO playing AGANIST 2nd and 3rd stringers..

I do agree, let pre-season and TC play out before we rule anyone out of the race, Troy will start with the first string offense this Sat against MIN, lets see how it plays out, but If He has yet another bad game and Kyle has yet another "good" or decent game then its probally final that Kyle will win the QB battle. And I bet Everyone will still be defending Troy..

[I*Bleed*Purple]

Keep in mind that Boller's numbers were thanks in a large part to Derrick Mason. Take away 3 completions for 54 yards and you get 8/12 for 48 yards and one interception. That's worse than Troy Smith. Troy Smith had to throw to rookies and McCants (a free agent).

We will have a clearer picture when Smith gets the first string offense. With Mason, Clayton, and maybe Heap to throw to, Smith's number will probably be way better than his play against New England.

Because Derrick Mason did what? Catch the ball? Isn't that what Pro receivers are supposed to do? Boller made some nice passes and now you are trying to take them away from him? Oh well, take away Smith's one good pass and he didn't do so hot either. Oh wait, even with that catch he was still only 5 for 12 Take away, if he caught, shoulda been, coulda been. Boller played better. Don't try to take crap away from the man for playing well, even though it's clear that Smith is your favorite.

[I*Bleed*Purple]

...give the job to Smith cuz at least he can still grow.

No, I think it's pretty rare to grow past the age of 24. So, I'm afraid 5'11" is all we are getting out of him. Maybe that's why he was drafted so late? We can all pray that he grows a couple more inches so he can see over the line, complete a few more passes, and not get as many batted down.

[berad]

^^^^Are you serious with that thread?

I see I have you hanging on my every word. Only you would argue every single sentence and still make no point.

About the "redzone thing" let me rephrase it since ur having difficulty comprehending logic. "Kyle Boller did not lead (lead-to direct on a course or in a direction) the offense to the redzone 1 time during the 1st half" a lil better?

Your absolutely right about the screen not literally being like a handoff. That's not even what im trying to get out with that anology. I was using that point to help you understand another point made by a different poster...talk about off subject.

The point is IT'S A SCREEN!! My grand mother could have made that pass. It's not like he had to look off the safeties, double pump a corner make a read and then hit his man in stride. He threw it to a guy wide open standing still Hardly anything to get excited over. Screens made up nearly half of his completions...

At the end of the day Boller walked away with 2 turnovers, no TD, no big play, no offensive drive, didn't even make it inside of the redzone ,and he didn't look all that impressive to me. Maybe I'm the only with a pair of eyes that actually work but if I'm not mistaken it looked like the same ol kyle boller...you know the guy who has the same amount of interceptions as he does td's over his 6 yr career accompanied by 36 fumbles....

My point was the screen play is not as simple as you make it out to be. It relies on a lot of coordination and movement by the Offense. Troy Smith and Joe Flacco got rejected on screen plays in pretty similar fashion, a LB batting the ball down into their face. So don't say ridiculous things like "My grand mother could have made that pass", if she could have, let's sign her up. She could be our "veteran presence".

Stop focusing on Kyle's past and let's look at what we have now. I'm not proclaiming him starter, I'm not proclaiming anyone starter. I'm just fighting you on your opinion that he was awful and Troy Smith shined and he should start.

[#20]

We need to improve our O-line fast . With a steady O-line , Boller could be an acceptable starter

[RavensIQ]

No, I think it's pretty rare to grow past the age of 24.

I guess that's why Boller still shows no promise

[theFRANCHISE]

I think this thread proves my point.

The QB controversy won't end. And we haven't even reached the second preseason game yet.

[bscott57]

Dosent Matter that it was Mason who caught His passes, Boller still is the one who Threw it to Him, and Boller played with a patchwork offense also.. Not nearly all the starters was in.

People just wont get over the Fact that Troy had a bad game, and hasnt shown that he deserves to be the starter, this entire week at practice Troy Has looked the worse and He's playing with the First string, Just remember this "Troy had to throw to rookies" well if He's playing with the 2nd and 3rd string then that Means He's ALSO playing AGANIST 2nd and 3rd stringers..

I do agree, let pre-season and TC play out before we rule anyone out of the race, Troy will start with the first string offense this Sat against MIN, lets see how it plays out, but If He has yet another bad game and Kyle has yet another "good" or decent game then its probally final that Kyle will win the QB battle. And I bet Everyone will still be defending Troy..

I dont understand still how people honestly believe Boller played "good", what were you watching? Was that not the same Kyle Boller we have seen for years and years? Can anyone make a valid point why we should believe he is any better or progressed at all? I still havent seen one on this thread, his completion percentages have always been very good but with him it doesnt translate into points or even first downs, more often than not turnovers at critical points in a game.

And to say he lead us to a TD is ludacris, he was on the 2 yard line after that phenomenal return. He is a turnover machine and in his case the risk usually comes with very little reward. I again dont think Smith played great but there is no reason he should be standing on the sidelines come Week 1. Also a question to all of you Boller lovers, ya his stats in your opinion were better than Smiths but who turned the ball over twice? Is that not the most important stat in the NFL, how many coaches would attribute winning and losing games to the turnover ratio?? Most if not all of them.

Unless Boller dominates his 3 remaining preseason games I will continue to lead the charge as to why he should not be on the field at all, he needs to show that he has progressed in his 6 years of the NFL not just that hes the same old Kyle "have my nuts dropped" Boller we have all seen here in Baltimore for far too long. If he wasnt so far up Billicks you know what he would have been released, but Billick was too stubborn to admit that he was a bust, and hypothetically if we were to release him how many starting jobs in the NFL do you think he would even be mentioned to have a chance at getting? 0 (1 maybe in Chicago, but who really cares). We can make excuses for him all day long but I have turned that page in my Ravens diehard fanhood and I think its time we as fans stop accepting him because we think this COULD be the year, he shouldnt have gotten this many chances, and has ruined way to many of my days.

[RavensIQ]

So don't say ridiculous things like "My grand mother could have made that pass", if she could have, let's sign her up. She could be our "veteran presence".

LOL thats funny.

Stop focusing on Kyle's past and let's look at what we have now. I'm not proclaiming him starter, I'm not proclaiming anyone starter. I'm just fighting you on your opinion that he was awful and Troy Smith shined and he should start.

Dude I never said Troy had a Great game, I'm just trying to bring you Boller lovers back down to reality. Yeah Troy struggled. So did Kyle. But what im trying to get at is Troy is only in his 2nd yr with barely 3 games under his belt, he was behind a worse line than Boller with worse Wrs. Boller is going into his 6th season with 40+ games under his belt and is still making the same careless mistakes.

I'm not a naive Troy lover. I know he has a lot to overcome and learn. But at the same time I am not a naive Boller lover who can't see reality. Nor do i not realize it's just a pre-season game and there's gonna be mistakes. At the end of the day all I want is the best QB under center come sept 7th, (Which we both agree on) whether thats Troy or Boller. And if it is Boller I will be his biggest supporter cuz he's a raven and I got love for the Ravens. But i honestly don't believe he will be.

Boller has a lot of areas in his game that are better than Smith. I know that. But Smith brings a new look. Smith brings excitement, a different style, and a different mindset. He brings a higher level of play making ability and most importantly he has confidence in himself. If this wasn't Bollers 6th season I would be less critical of him. If he and Smith are roughly on the same level come sept 7th than give Troy his chance cuz boller has already had 6 yrs worth of chances. Smith is younger, more mobile, more confident, cheaper...and has more of his teammates approval than boller does.

There are more upsides with smith than there are with Boller. I was hoping boller would have shown why he should be the starter last pre season game, I even predicted he was gonna have a highlight night, but he did completely the opposite and showed why he shouldn't be the starter. And that's why I'm trying to make my case for Smith.

Not be cuz Troy can but because Boller can't.

If you go to the same barber for 6 yrs and he messes up your haircut every single time are you still gonna give him one more chance? If your bank screws up your money for 6 yrs are you still gonna stay with that bank and give em one more chance? If your car breaks down every single year for 6 yrs will you not get a new car, or will u give it one more chance? If your qb messes up your offense for 6 yrs straight are you not gonna replace him or are you gonna give him one more chance?

[bscott57]

Smith-led drives were 0/4 on 3rd downs. Boller-led drives were 2/5. Tell me which is better.

And to you the man who wont stop harping on the 3rd down stats. One question, would you rather have a QB with Bollers 3rd down stats and turned the ball over twice in what 4/5 drives or someone who was 0/4 (in maybe 5 drives) but gave us a chance to punt and put our defense on the field without giving up field position? Tell me which is better.

With our D if we can at least win the field position battle we have a chance to win games, 2002 ring a bell. When we turn the ball over it is a recipe for disaster, last season.

[berad]

And to you the man who wont stop harping on the 3rd down stats. One question, would you rather have a QB with Bollers 3rd down stats and turned the ball over twice in what 4/5 drives or someone who was 0/4 (in maybe 5 drives) but gave us a chance to punt and put our defense on the field without giving up field position? Tell me which is better.

With our D if we can at least win the field position battle we have a chance to win games, 2002 ring a bell. When we turn the ball over it is a recipe for disaster, last season.

2002?

7-9?

[bscott57]

2002?

7-9?

Alright wise guy 01 if you wanna get specific, though the Lombardi Trophy was brought to Bmore in 01.

But I will assume you agreed with the rest of the post.

[berad]

Alright wise guys 01 if you wanna get specific, though the Lombardi Trophy was brough to Bmore in 02.

What?

Either you're wildly confused or have extremely fat fingers. We won the SuperBowl in 2000.

[theFRANCHISE]

What?

Either you're wildly confused or have extremely fat fingers. We won the SuperBowl in 2000.

Yup, you're right. 2000 season, but the game was played January 28, 2001 to be specific.

[RavenNuts]

Actually we won the Super Bowl in 2001, to end the 2000 season.

[berad]

I know all that, but is that what he meant? Where did 2002 come from?

[theFRANCHISE]

I know all that, but is that what he meant? Where did 2002 come from?

Well, seeing as how he's a Ravens fan, I hope that's what he had meant.

[Bazard]

LOL thats funny.

Dude I never said Troy had a Great game, I'm just trying to bring you Boller lovers back down to reality. Yeah Troy struggled. So did Kyle. But what im trying to get at is Troy is only in his 2nd yr with barely 3 games under his belt, he was behind a worse line than Boller with worse Wrs. Boller is going into his 6th season with 40+ games under his belt and is still making the same careless mistakes.

I'm not a naive Troy lover. I know he has a lot to overcome and learn. But at the same time I am not a naive Boller lover who can't see reality. Nor do i not realize it's just a pre-season game and there's gonna be mistakes. At the end of the day all I want is the best QB under center come sept 7th, (Which we both agree on) whether thats Troy or Boller. And if it is Boller I will be his biggest supporter cuz he's a raven and I got love for the Ravens. But i honestly don't believe he will be.

Boller has a lot of areas in his game that are better than Smith. I know that. But Smith brings a new look. Smith brings excitement, a different style, and a different mindset. He brings a higher level of play making ability and most importantly he has confidence in himself. If this wasn't Bollers 6th season I would be less critical of him. If he and Smith are roughly on the same level come sept 7th than give Troy his chance cuz boller has already had 6 yrs worth of chances. Smith is younger, more mobile, more confident, cheaper...and has more of his teammates approval than boller does.

There are more upsides with smith than there are with Boller. I was hoping boller would have shown why he should be the starter last pre season game, I even predicted he was gonna have a highlight night, but he did completely the opposite and showed why he shouldn't be the starter. And that's why I'm trying to make my case for Smith.

Not be cuz Troy can but because Boller can't.

If you go to the same barber for 6 yrs and he messes up your haircut every single time are you still gonna give him one more chance? If your bank screws up your money for 6 yrs are you still gonna stay with that bank and give em one more chance? If your car breaks down every single year for 6 yrs will you not get a new car, or will u give it one more chance? If your qb messes up your offense for 6 yrs straight are you not gonna replace him or are you gonna give him one more chance?

Kyle didn't exactly mess up Cam Cameron's offense he messed up Billick's and so did every other quarterback. One Performance by either quarterback is enough to judge them yet Boller looked great as a passer yes he made a mistake they happen new system new reads give him a chance at least he was accurate and got the ball where he wanted it to be. Troy's mobility is the only thing that made him look decent he misfired on simple throws. He over and under threw wide open targets, should have had a pick and while he did show that he was capable of making big plays he didn't show he was capable of making the simple ones. Kyle showed a bit of both but still it was one night. Let them play a little more before a decision.

And alot of you Troy Smith fans have chosen to ignore the fact that Troy not Kyle has thrown the most interceptions in parctice, fumbled the most in practice and has had the most overall bad days while Kyle has been the most consistent. Be fair fans and let the best man win you can't let two guys compete; have one beat the other and say I'm gonna let the loser of the competition start because i like him better. Because that is exactly what yall will do if Kyle wins and it is so stupid. Thats like being the hardest worker at your job and the fat lazy guy who is never there gets the promotion over you.

[bossman419]

What?

Either you're wildly confused or have extremely fat fingers. We won the SuperBowl in 2000.

haha funniest quote ive seen in a while

[Chickenisgood89]

I really think you guys are mistaken here. Kyle Boller will be the starter throughout this year and at the end of the season. He is the Best QB we have. How about you try supporting him insteading of not putting any support in him. You all never gave him a chance and now is his time. let him have it. Troy did look good but I think he needs one more season of Holding a clip board. Joe Flacco needs a better line. Boller is the guy. His arm is awesome and he did well under diress. Though the coaches need to stress coverung up the ball when being tackled. I just think you al need to give Kyle a chance. Troy is not ready yet. Boller will step up this season and you will see it. Flacco needs time. He is not the starter this year, he needs to have better pocket presence and move around more so he is not sacked all the time. Boller will win out. Bottom Line. He is the veteran and young coaches go with the Vet, and he will earn it and show why he is the #1 QB in Baltimore. I believe if not for Steve McNair We would have won the SUper Bowl. Boller is a much better passer. JUST GIVE HIM A CHANCE. Like Aaron Rodgers, support him and watch what happens. He defintely was moving the offense. The only concern I have is the running game. Where was ray Rice? I think Allen Patrick should back up McGahee. Him or Cory Ross. They would do a better job. We need a running game.

[foreversunny23]

Dosent Matter that it was Mason who caught His passes, Boller still is the one who Threw it to Him, and Boller played with a patchwork offense also.. Not nearly all the starters was in.

People just wont get over the Fact that Troy had a bad game, and hasnt shown that he deserves to be the starter, this entire week at practice Troy Has looked the worse and He's playing with the First string, Just remember this "Troy had to throw to rookies" well if He's playing with the 2nd and 3rd string then that Means He's ALSO playing AGANIST 2nd and 3rd stringers..

I do agree, let pre-season and TC play out before we rule anyone out of the race, Troy will start with the first string offense this Sat against MIN, lets see how it plays out, but If He has yet another bad game and Kyle has yet another "good" or decent game then its probally final that Kyle will win the QB battle. And I bet Everyone will still be defending Troy..

Because Derrick Mason did what? Catch the ball? Isn't that what Pro receivers are supposed to do? Boller made some nice passes and now you are trying to take them away from him? Oh well, take away Smith's one good pass and he didn't do so hot either. Oh wait, even with that catch he was still only 5 for 12 Take away, if he caught, shoulda been, coulda been. Boller played better. Don't try to take crap away from the man for playing well, even though it's clear that Smith is your favorite.

The point of me saying that was that Smith didn't have Mason to throw to. He had no dependable recievers to throw to! So it's futile to compare Smith's performance to Boller's performance. Both weren't great.

[rayvenfan_52]

I got an idea. How about we give our evaluations at the end of pre-season? That way they all get their chances to play behind 1st stringers in the 1st Quarter rather then 3rd in the last 2 quarters.

[foreversunny23]

I got an idea. How about we give our evaluations at the end of pre-season? That way they all get their chances to play behind 1st stringers in the 1st Quarter rather then 3rd in the last 2 quarters.

nahhh controversy without looking at the big picture is better!