The Qb Controversy Won't End

[btk1]

Although we can universally agree that Joe Flacco's performance left a lot to be desired in his NFL debut last night

Isn't that the truth. That is a major understatement. He looked slow, confused, and downright horrible. I understand it was his first go at this level but he looked awkward as hell.

Troy Smith looked by far the best in my opinion given the fact he was primarily playing with the second and third teams and was still connecting on passes with ease. He can escape the pocket and is just overall more athletic than the other two. But he is only 6 foot tall and that will always be held against him.

God I hope we start Smith and at least give him the chance to take the job or lose the job.

[Marc2k6]

Isn't that the truth. That is a major understatement. He looked slow, confused, and downright horrible. I understand it was his first go at this level but he looked awkward as hell.

Troy Smith looked by far the best in my opinion given the fact he was primarily playing with the second and third teams and was still connecting on passes with ease. He can escape the pocket and is just overall more athletic than the other two. But he is only 6 foot tall and that will always be held against him.

God I hope we start Smith and at least give him the chance to take the job or lose the job.

You can have a deer in the headlights but after that, it is a deer under your car. Flacco was going under but he will get better with time.

[RavensIQ]

Did anybody see Matt Ryan's debut....

[RavensIQ]

What if Vick was able to return to the NFL next year...would anybody welcome him here? He'd be rusty yeah, but he would be a heck of a lot cheaper than 100 mill...

[berad]

Did anybody see Matt Ryan's debut....

Golly, he did well in the preseason. Let me see it through week 6 and I'll be a believer.

[berad]

Also, why is everyone trying to disect Flacco's performance? He got so little playing time, it wasn't even worth watching. Not to mention the OL basically rolled over when the ball was snapped.

[RavensIQ]

I would have liked to seen the ravens bring in a veteran QB during TC. I know Boller is a "vet" but he still seems like an ageless rookie to me. Not taking anything away from development or competition I just think a veteran's qb presence in camp would have gone a long way this year for all 3 rookies. If one of our Qbs goes down for some odd reason I wouldn't be opposed to bringing in Culpepper as a decent replacement or backup option.

Any thoughts on that?

[btk1]

What if Vick was able to return to the NFL next year...would anybody welcome him here? He'd be rusty yeah, but he would be a heck of a lot cheaper than 100 mill...

Vick will return to the NFL this is almost a certainty however the chances of him returning as a QB are slim and none and slim just left the building. He will return as a wide out in my opinion. He is one hell of an athlete but that much of a layoff from the QB position he can never recover from. He can be a WR on any team in the NFL simply based on his athletic ability alone.

Yes I would welcome him. He did something horrible but has paid his price or is currently paying his price and hopefully he has learned from it.

[berad]

I would have liked to seen the ravens bring in a veteran QB during TC. I know Boller is a "vet" but he still seems like an ageless rookie to me. Not taking anything away from development or competition I just think a veteran's qb presence in camp would have gone a long way this year for all 3 rookies. If one of our Qbs goes down for some odd reason I wouldn't be opposed to bringing in Culpepper as a decent replacement or backup option.

Any thoughts on that?

Kyle knows the ins-and-outs of the NFL. He knows how to read a Defense on paper and is a very intelligent player, he is a good guy to learn from. His problem is that he can't translate it onto the field with any consistency. I think we're fine.

[I*Bleed*Purple]

Kyle knows the ins-and-outs of the NFL. He knows how to read a Defense on paper and is a very intelligent player, he is a good guy to learn from. His problem is that he can't translate it onto the field with any consistency. I think we're fine.

I agree. All 3 QB's need to get their starts this preseason, but I'm really looking forward to watching Boller under Cameron. I guess I'm the only one who was pretty surprised/happy from what I saw from him. Sure there were a couple mistakes, but that's why there is a preseason. No matter who is our guy this year, I think we are gonna surprise the hell out of alot of teams with our offensive production. And you know the Ravens.....the more points the offense scores, the nastier the defense gets.

[foreversunny23]

I agree. All 3 QB's need to get their starts this preseason, but I'm really looking forward to watching Boller under Cameron. I guess I'm the only one who was pretty surprised/happy from what I saw from him. Sure there were a couple mistakes, but that's why there is a preseason. No matter who is our guy this year, I think we are gonna surprise the hell out of alot of teams with our offensive production. And you know the Ravens.....the more points the offense scores, the nastier the defense gets.

I'll let the fumble slide, but throwing into triple coverage is unacceptable regardless if it's preseason or not. Maybe I'm being too harsh (I know all of us can be with Boller), but you can only go so far with the explanation that it's only preseason...

[berad]

I'll let the fumble slide, but throwing into triple coverage is unacceptable regardless if it's preseason or not. Maybe I'm being too harsh (I know all of us can be with Boller), but you can only go so far with the explanation that it's only preseason...

Troy did nearly the same thing in his time, if the defender had better hands, he'd look bad, too. It was a mistake probably either from the TE running the wrong route or Kyle expecting another route.

[Bleeding Purple]

Troy Smith did not do "nearly the same thing". He went 5/12 and, as you mentioned, should have thrown an interception. Boller went 11/15 and that includes two dropped passes. Whether you include the two turnovers or not, he still had the best day out of the three quarterbacks.

[I*Bleed*Purple]

Berad and Bleeding Purple, thank you for letting me know that I'm not crazy in what I saw from Kyle. You are absolutely right about his INT. Either the wrong route was run, or Kyle expected something else. I'm guessing the former. Either way, including his fumble, he put up far better numbers than Smith did. Now, as I said before, let's see what Troy can do behind the starting (albeit makeshift) offensive line.

[berad]

Troy Smith did not do "nearly the same thing". He went 5/12 and, as you mentioned, should have thrown an interception. Boller went 11/15 and that includes two dropped passes. Whether you include the two turnovers or not, he still had the best day out of the three quarterbacks.

No, I meant "the same thing" as he threw right at a defender. It was early in the 4th quarter on Troy's last series, I think; his receiver was running an in-route and Troy threw the ball (either not seeing or not caring) even though a linebacker was backing up in coverage and got both hands on it. I agree with you, Kyle was the most efficient and productive QB on the field that day.

[Ravens52]

As some of you I agree Troy looked pretty bad out there and Kyle looked great. Though its only preseason I really liked what Boller showed. He seemed calm in the pocket and seemed to know what he was doing. Troy looked just overexcited too me and didn't seem calm at all. Flacco was just...not really much to judge from. Keep in mind that this was only preseason but it looks like Flacco has a long way too go

[theFRANCHISE]

You know what I noticed? My threads get people talking.

Talking's a good thing. It's healthy.

(J/k...y'all can get back to where you were now...lol)

[rayvenfan_52]

Id give it to Boller the way he performed. Yea he threw and INT so what. I think it was probably bad communication. Look at how he did though. 11/15 with 2 being dropped passes. He was calm in the pocket and not trying to just throw it out there.

Id like to see how Troy does in the Vikings game. He will get probably the same amount of protection Boller got which lead to those good deep throws he threw.

[bscott57]

As some of you I agree Troy looked pretty bad out there and Kyle looked great. Though its only preseason I really liked what Boller showed. He seemed calm in the pocket and seemed to know what he was doing. Troy looked just overexcited too me and didn't seem calm at all. Flacco was just...not really much to judge from. Keep in mind that this was only preseason but it looks like Flacco has a long way too go

Of Kyle's 11 completions 4 or 5 were screens, hes been in the NFL for 6 years one would hope he could complete a simple screen pass. Also you guys are saying that Boller had balls dropped what about the dime Smith dropped on Mccants chest that was dropped pretty close to the end zone? Boller looked brutal and I am tired of our fans making excuses for someone who repeatedly shows he is nothing more than a back up. He should not be our starter whether or not any of the other QB's take the job from him or not so far he has shown no progression from the past few terrible years and made the same careless mistakes with the football. And to say Smith didnt look as good in the pocket is strange when your basis for the argument is he was scrambling around. With our line as banged up as it is, Smith may get the start for that exact reason. Boller was uncomfortable and still staring down receivers when he was playing in front of Ogden and gang it will only get worse the less time he has. He is an NFL backup, and has never shown any of us he is anything more.

The Franchise, earlier in this thread you are claiming that Div 1-AA players dont get the same exposure, Flacco went to Pitt and transferred because he couldnt crack the starting lineup, so he went somewhere he could play right away. I agree it is a moot point now but we took a huge gamble on someone who it has already been proven was not a starting Div 1-A QB so he opted to play against lesser competition.

I dont know who will start obviously, but as I put in one of my previous posts right out of Mike Golics mouth, "I am tired of hearing talk about the future, the only future in the NFL is the upcoming season or the remaining games on your schedule, too much can change in the NFL". We have the defense (Ranked 18th is completely bogus, that will change come week 1), we just need to be productive on the offense side of the ball and Boller showed all the same things he has done here in the past, he looks good then all it takes in the NFL is 1 play and its all negated. Story of Kyle "have my nuts dropped" Boller.

[RavensIQ]

Of Kyle's 11 completions 4 or 5 were screens, hes been in the NFL for 6 years one would hope he could complete a simple screen pass. Also you guys are saying that Boller had balls dropped what about the dime Smith dropped on Mccants chest that was dropped pretty close to the end zone? Boller looked brutal and I am tired of our fans making excuses for someone who repeatedly shows he is nothing more than a back up. He should not be our starter whether or not any of the other QB's take the job from him or not so far he has shown no progression from the past few terrible years and made the same careless mistakes with the football. And to say Smith didnt look as good in the pocket is strange when your basis for the argument is he was scrambling around. With our line as banged up as it is, Smith may get the start for that exact reason. Boller was uncomfortable and still staring down receivers when he was playing in front of Ogden and gang it will only get worse the less time he has. He is an NFL backup, and has never shown any of us he is anything more.

The Franchise, earlier in this thread you are claiming that Div 1-AA players dont get the same exposure, Flacco went to Pitt and transferred because he couldnt crack the starting lineup, so he went somewhere he could play right away. I agree it is a moot point now but we took a huge gamble on someone who it has already been proven was not a starting Div 1-A QB so he opted to play against lesser competition.

I dont know who will start obviously, but as I put in one of my previous posts right out of Mike Golics mouth, "I am tired of hearing talk about the future, the only future in the NFL is the upcoming season or the remaining games on your schedule, too much can change in the NFL". We have the defense (Ranked 18th is completely bogus, that will change come week 1), we just need to be productive on the offense side of the ball and Boller showed all the same things he has done here in the past, he looks good then all it takes in the NFL is 1 play and its all negated. Story of Kyle "have my nuts dropped" Boller.

I'm on your side bscot. Sure Boller made a couple of completions but isn't that what a 6th yr NFL quarterback is suppose to do? The real question is can he be a play MAKER? Not a play ENDER. And we all know the answer to that one.

If there is still a 50-50 toss up between Kyle (6th year) and Troy (2nd year) come sept 7th then give the job to Smith cuz at least he can still grow. By now in his 6th year Boller should have already solidified his job and made it crystal clear in TC that he is the starter. Which he hasn't done.

I know Troy is technically still a rookie Qb but if he is in the hunt for a starting job going into his 2nd year then what does it really say about Kyle Boller going into his 6th year?

[berad]

Troy Smith had plenty of screen passes, too. Let's not hold it against either of them.

[berad]

I'm on your side bscot. Sure Boller made a couple of completions but isn't that what a NFL quarterback is suppose to do? The real question is can he be a play MAKER? Not a play ENDER. And we all know the answer to that one.

If there is still a 50-50 toss up between Kyle (6th year) and Troy (2nd year) come sept 7th then give the job to Smith cuz at least he can still grow. By now in his 6th year Boller should have already solidified his job and made it crystal clear in TC that he is the starter. Which he hasn't.

I know Troy is technically still a rookie Qb but if he is in the hunt for a starting job going into his 2nd year then what does it really say about Kyle Boller going into his 6th year?

How is Kyle Boller completing over 73% of his passes and leading our team to 10 points make him a "play-ender"? And how is Troy Smith throwing a 41.7% completion rating and going 0-4 on 3rd down during his drives make him a play maker?

[bscott57]

How is Kyle Boller completing over 73% of his passes and leading our team to 10 points make him a "play-ender"? And how is Troy Smith throwing a 41.7% completion rating and going 0-4 on 3rd down during his drives make him a play maker?

Well first of all the pass I was referring to on Mccants #'s was on a third down. And Boller is throwing SCREEN PASSES in a preseason game, I understand Smith was as well but Kyle Boller has been around for 6 years, his first pass of the game was by far his best and then besides the screen passes which I like to think I could complete if I had been throwing them for 20 some odd years, he was more like 50%, and if you look at Bollers past he has a history of a good competion percentage but we all know his passes are check downs, ask yourself how many times you have cringed watching Kyle Boller throw a pass on 3rd down with the receiver having no shot of getting a 1st down. And in my opinion the percentage that really matters is when he doesnt throw to his check down he gets picked off probably 73% of the time.

Smith didnt play great, I am not in any way saying that. But if him and Boller are at the same level of progression when this preseason ends Smith should get the nod because we know with Boller at the helm and a banged up line we are gonna have a hard time averaging 14 pts a game.

We will all be able to make a much more mathematical comparison when Smith steps up to center with all the healthy starters and isnt putting passes on our 7th and 8th WR chests and having them dropped, but I would rather see that all season then see Boller throwing screens/checkdowns and when he doesnt being the automatic turnover machine we have all grown so fond of.

[berad]

Well first of all the pass I was referring to on Mccants #'s was on a third down. And Boller is throwing SCREEN PASSES in a preseason game, I understand Smith was as well but Kyle Boller has been around for 6 years, his first pass of the game was by far his best and then besides the screen passes which I like to think I could complete if I had been throwing them for 20 some odd years, he was more like 50%, and if you look at Bollers past he has a history of a good competion percentage but we all know his passes are check downs, and the percentage that really matters is when he doesnt throw to his check down he gets picked off probably 73% of the time.

Smith didnt play great, I am not in any way saying that. But if him and Boller are at the same level of progression when this preseason ends Smith should get the nod because we know with Boller at the helm and a banged up line we are gonna have a hard time averaging 14 pts a game.

We will all be able to make a much more mathematical comparison when Smith steps up to center with all the healthy starters and isnt putting passes on our 7th and 8th WR chests and having them dropped, but I would rather see that all season then see Boller throwing screens/checkdowns and when he doesnt being the automatic turnover machine we have all grown so fond of.

Kyle Boller and Troy Smith weren't calling the plays, Cam Cameron was. You should know that, anyone should know that. They threw screen passes because that was the play the was called, not because they were "checking down". It looks to me like you don't know the difference between a screen and a check-down.

[RavensIQ]

How is Kyle Boller completing over 73% of his passes and leading our team to 10 points make him a "play-ender"? And how is Troy Smith throwing a 41.7% completion rating and going 0-4 on 3rd down during his drives make him a play maker?

I believe the play ended when he threw the interception. Or was it when he fumbled the ball?

[bscott57]

Kyle Boller and Troy Smith weren't calling the plays, Cam Cameron was. You should know that, anyone should know that. They threw screen passes because that was the play the was called, not because they were "checking down". It looks to me like you don't know the difference between a screen and a check-down.

Come on man, I didnt insinuate at all that Boller was calling the plays. I was discrediting the fact that people are saying he completed 73% of his passes, most of which were check downs or screens. But to he honest with you if I were learning my football from the Ravens offense and more importantly Kyle Boller you are right on the money I wouldnt know the difference.

[RavensIQ]

Kyle Boller and Troy Smith weren't calling the plays, Cam Cameron was. You should know that, anyone should know that. They threw screen passes because that was the play the was called, not because they were "checking down". It looks to me like you don't know the difference between a screen and a check-down.

That's not the point he is trying to make. A screen pass is just like handing off the ball to the rb. It should be a gimme. So to add that into an argument about how he completed an odd amount of passes isn't really a reliable point.

I think people are getting to worked up over this 11 out 15 for 100+ yards stat. it still averages out to be less than 10 yrds a pass, infact 6.8 yrds and attempt . Not to mention the majority of those yards came on the ground from YAC. He went an entire half with out getting into the redzone...or without scoring a touchdown.

You guys are all pumped up over boller cuz he threw a couple of decent passes against a team's defense who were taking there 1st snaps of the 2008 season. As the game progressed Boller showed his true self but the Boller lovers aren't including that into their argument.

If he would have had a full game's worth of stats based on his 1st half performance he would have been 22/30 WOW...for 204 yrds with 2 interceptions and 2 fumbles....

Awesome!

[donberry]

I have been lurking here for quite a while, reading mostly about the qb controversy. Must say I only started following this year as I am a Buckeye fan and am interested in seeing how Troy Smith does.

That being said, my opinion on the matter as everyone else has chirped in with theirs.

I can pretty much guarantee you that there is only a 2 qb controversy. For those who believe Flacco is going to step in , even at mideseason, and take over the job are thinking with their hearts and not their brains. In the history of the NFL, how many qb's have stepped in an excelled at qb as a rookie? You can count them on one hand.

If one reads thru previous posts, most people talked about how Booler was ruined because he started too soon, yet Flacco is different ?

The guy came from a small college school, it is a totally different game then he has ever played. Bigger, faster and smarter then he has ever seen in his life.

Flacco has the tools, but unless things go totally south for the ravens, MAYBE nect year he will actually be vying for the starting job, tho my guess it will be more like 2 years if either Boller or Smith step up. Give the guy some time to learn the game.

Now if the Ravens are looking at a sub-500 season, expect to see him get more playing time - in order to get him to learn the game and the reads.

If the Ravens happen to be fighting for a playoff spot 0 no way Flacco is going to see the field.

Can you imagine coming from Delaware and then having to try and read NFL defenses ? I do not care how much tape u watch, it is still different then being on the field.

Flacco will be the man, I would say 2 years from now though. He will be the franchise qb (only way he starts sooner is if Boller and Smith can't score and the ravens are not playing for aplayoff spot.

Now, Boller and Smith. I obviously have a dog in this fight as i am a Troy Smith fan.You beat Michigan every year, we will oove you forever. Probkem Smith is going to have is he is only in his 2nd year. He has a huge advantage over Flacco as he has seen big time college football, but even then, it is not the NFL where there are no weak spots. He is smart and has had some playing time which could help.Would have been great if he were in a situation like Flacco where he could sit and learn another year, knowinghe would start in year 3 - but when you are 6 foot tall - that isn't going to happen, he has to take advantage of the situation now.

Could not watch the game, but listened to it. I don't put a lot of stock in his stats as he was running for his life with the O-line he had. Minnesota will be a better aguge.

From what I have been reading though, much to my surprise he has been struggling with accuracy. That is something he NEVER did at Ohio State. may be he is trying too hard as he knows this may be the only chance he gets. He may just not be able to cut it - only time will tell on that one.

So, i think the starting qb job is only between Boller and Smith, forget about Flacco for now except for mop up duty. I am hoping for Smith to step up, but I think you can bet the coach is going to put his best bet out there.

Now what may happen is during the regular season, who ever the starting qb is (Smith or Boller), if they start throwing picks or not able to score td's, then the back up will be the starter. I can't see harbaugh sticking to either one if they are not winning.

As for Boller's past - different coach, different scheme. I would be shocked to learn Harbaugh is looking at Boller's past performances under a different offensive scheme. While it is fun to sit around and lament on his past performance - new coach, new chances. Starting with a clean slate.

Look to see how well Smith moves the ball against Minnesota with the #1 offense behind him. I am curious how the games go after that. I would think Harbaugh wants the starting qb to start the last preseason game. If he keeps rotating the starters as he has been, that would put Smith in for Atlanta. If Boller starts Atlanta, I would say he will be the man. Now, did harbaugh have in the back of his mind it was Smith's job to lose, scheduling the games so Smith would be starting against Atlanta, or was it really to give a nod to Boller's experience ?

Now I am totally guessing here, but I would say Boller starts against St Louis, then whoever the starting qb is will start against Atlanta.

I hope Smith wins, but winning games comes first - team first. We will know more when Smith has a chance to play with the starting offense.

THEN the debate can actually begin.

As for training camp, kind of hard to tell what is going on because you don't actually now what they are working on. Different plays will get you different results. maybe Smith threw more pics as they gave him harder assignments, maybe he just sucked.......

we will find out soon .

Not being mean to Flacco fans - I have no doubt he is the future, But we have to learn a little patience. The trick is to build a winning franchise and keep it there, I think the best chance for that is to not let Flacco to the wolves, give him time to learn.

and who knows (bias here) - maybe Smith starts, takes them deep in the payoffs and never looks back (or Boller for that matter) THEN you are going to have a big qb controversy. Now they are just biding time, what happens if one of them turns out to be a winner........

[BloodRaven]

You know what I noticed? My threads get people talking.

Talking's a good thing. It's healthy.

(J/k...y'all can get back to where you were now...lol)

Lol. If you had named this thread "Breaking News: Brett Favre ate a sandwhich, it may or may not have been cheese in it" people would still be talking.

[MJSMOOTH]

Boller was great troy was great flacco you know he was wacko well anyway flacco will get better with playing time