John Harbaugh

[Alexir]

According to ESPN "Analysts", they have ranked the top ten coaches.

[url="http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/27641/power-rankings-top-10-nfl-head-coaches"]http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/27641/power-rankings-top-10-nfl-head-coaches[/url]

Harbaugh finishes out at number 10.

Don't know why Shannahan is on that list.....Guy hasn't done squat since Elway.

Do you think Harbaugh should be higher?

[berad]

Shannahan? Good lord... [color="#0000FF"][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTk7NJhGr_s&feature=related"]This[/url][/color] is the only thing you need to look when considering his coaching career in Washington...

Anyways, I don't think the list matters very much - it's mostly influenced by media bias. If they had made the same one last year, Singletary would've probably been on it. I don't know how Mike Smith can be higher than Harbaugh, if you compare playoff success, but I guess he's more of a media darling. I'm surprised they didn't put Jim Harbaugh on the list with the way some people hype him.

Seems like a pretty safe list. Not too much room for argument. There are some underrated coaches, though, like Spagnuolo in St. Louis and Schwartz in Detroit, they're both doing good things and turning formerly joke-franchises into legitimate ones.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

there are four that are crap on that list. Tom coughlin are you serious there is a common theme with him the only consistency he has is inconsistency. The guy has a good line a great front four, talented and YOUNG WR's a great running duo and decent seondary. He won a superbowl sure but that was not coaching that was having a great front four that pressured brady and the greatest catch in Superbowl history. Andy Reid has had great talent for years and for some reason always chokes at the big dance. and yet inconsistency all the time in the regular season, and in my opinion a really weak division. OK Lovie Smith are you freaking serious what has he done, NOTHING. OK now Mike Shanahan, yeah the dude had a lot of wins and a superbowl. However, Lets think about the players, Elway, terell davis, portis, al wilson, champ, dumervil, lynch, deltha oneal when he was playing hot, and a great offensive line which is the only reason his zone blocking scheme was effective. So yeah overrated

Now onto Harbaugh, he took over a 5-11 team, three years three playoff appearances, three playoff wins in each one afc title appearance, no season close to a losing season, and has done it all with new players everywhere without consistency at quarterback, then running game, and amazingly our defense has struggled some but found ways to win. Granted none of these areas i named were dissappointing for long which speaks volumes to the players, but again something has to be said for the coach to. And he is at the tail end of the top end. [i]<Deleted>[/i]

[JO_75]

Too High:

- Tom Coughlin: He is only up high because Giants won SB 42

- Lovie Smith: Yeah they went to the NFC Title, but again he is living off the fact he went to SB 41

- Andy Reid: He is a choke artist, sure he has the wins but doesn't have that good of a track record.

- Mike Shananan: John Elway, that's all you have to say.

Too Low:

- John Harbaugh: Biased aside, His first 3 years he took the Ravens to the playoffs each year, his first year he took the Ravens to the AFC Title game, we dominated the Patriots in the Wild Card Round his second year, and sure there are those painful losses to the Colts and Steelers, but for any Head Coach, to take your team to the playoffs 3 straight years says something.

- Mike Smith: He has done a great job for the Falcons and he will have the Falcons in the playoff hunt for a long time.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1302062367' post='662426']
Too High:

- Tom Coughlin: He is only up high because Giants won SB 42

- Lovie Smith: Yeah they went to the NFC Title, but again he is living off the fact he went to SB 41

- Andy Reid: He is a choke artist, sure he has the wins but doesn't have that good of a track record.

- Mike Shananan: John Elway, that's all you have to say.

Too Low:

- John Harbaugh: Biased aside, His first 3 years he took the Ravens to the playoffs each year, his first year he took the Ravens to the AFC Title game, we dominated the Patriots in the Wild Card Round his second year, and sure there are those painful losses to the Colts and Steelers, but for any Head Coach, to take your team to the playoffs 3 straight years says something.

- Mike Smith: He has done a great job for the Falcons and he will have the Falcons in the playoff hunt for a long time.
[/quote]


HAHA yeah I think we may have been on the same wave length here man.

[True]

John Harbaugh at #10 is fine. I'd move Mike Smith up to #7 and shift everyone down. He hasn't won any playoff games, but he completely turned around a franchise that was in complete shambles in 06/07 and turned the culture around there immediately.

[AwakenTheDemon]

I wouldn't put Rex Ryan anywhere above 8, at most. Sure, he's reached the AFCCG twice, but has he ever actually gotten to the Super Bowl? In fact, that entire list relies too much on who's won championships.

[Bltravens]

No offense to some of the posters but a great coach needs great players to win big games. Theres no such thing as a great coach who turns crap players into super bowl winners. Shanahan inherited Elway ya, but he also pulled Terrell Davis out of like the 4th round and if anyone saw the Super Bowls Denver won Davis had as much to do with it if not more than Elway did. Reid is one of the best coaches in the NFL, personally I dont like how much he throws the ball but thats just me, Reid basically rebuilt that entire roster in the 2006-2007 drafts and the Asante Samuel sign and yet Reid continually makes the playoffs in one of the better divisions in all of football. Harbaugh isnt close to the consistency of success Reid has yet.

[Alexir]

The Eagles Offense last year was amazing. If Joe Flacco and his 2011 drafted Receiver get on the same page, the Ravens are an elite team. But honestly, not a knock on John, but not much has changed since the days of Billick. Defense is still doing everything with the help of a running back carrying the offense.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1302145875' post='662828']
The Eagles Offense last year was amazing. If Joe Flacco and his 2011 drafted Receiver get on the same page, the Ravens are an elite team. But honestly, not a knock on John, but not much has changed since the days of Billick. Defense is still doing everything with the help of a running back carrying the offense.
[/quote]
To an extent I agree, the defense still does the heavy lifting, just the D isn't taxed to the brink of implosion like it was when Ed and Ray were in their primes. The big difference though is that Flacco is far and away better than any QB we had under Billick. Flacco would have killed teams on playaction in 2003 with Jamal Lewis cruising for 2000 yards.

[Ravens Lover]

I wouldn't put Tomlin even close to two yet, top 10 yes, maybe 4 at the highest but definetly not two at this point

[RavensAllTheWay]

I must say that list has some big flaws. Where the hell is Raheem Morris? I honestly think you can put him as high as the 5th spot behind Beilichek, McCarthy, Reid and possibly Tomlin because he inherited a not so talented team and helped them improve by 7 wins from year 1 to year 2. Based on a whole bunch of sources, he really motivates those guys to play, and they believe in what he's doing down there.

Coughlin, meanwhile, looked like a good coach for the Giants for ONE season. Before 2007 and after 2007, the Giants have been undisciplined and have struggled mightily in December. Lack of execution has been a problem up there late in the year, yes, but Couglin doesn't seem to know how to get his players to respond to adversity at all.

Shanahan? Don't live in the past. I know he got TD in the lineup, but he didn't give TD his ability to be an elite RB at the time, they guy was always talented. And Elway...enough said. I saw it coming from a mile away, and I even called it last offseason that he was not the guy to take over the Redskins because they needed an actual motivational coach, possibly a hard-nosed guy, to get them to try their best. Also, wasn't he the one who made the decision to switch to the 3-4? I questioned even back then who in that front 7 would fit the system and who wouldn't and just look at what happened. Andre Carter got 11 sacks in 2009 and was a great compliment to Orakpo. Then 2010 and Mike come along and the guy does nothing. Wasted talent. And we all know about benching Donovan, lol. If you look at their defensive rankings from those 2 seasons, they dropped from 10th overall to 31st.


I also think it's possible that we might soon see Jim Harbaugh on that list in for Lovie Smith. That is if the 49ers finally figure out the right formula.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1302226279' post='663174']
I must say that list has some big flaws. Where the hell is Raheem Morris? I honestly think you can put him as high as the 5th spot behind Beilichek, McCarthy, Reid and possibly Tomlin because he inherited a not so talented team and helped them improve by 7 wins from year 1 to year 2. Based on a whole bunch of sources, he really motivates those guys to play, and they believe in what he's doing down there.

Coughlin, meanwhile, looked like a good coach for the Giants for ONE season. Before 2007 and after 2007, the Giants have been undisciplined and have struggled mightily in December. Lack of execution has been a problem up there late in the year, yes, but Couglin doesn't seem to know how to get his players to respond to adversity at all.

Shanahan? Don't live in the past. I know he got TD in the lineup, but he didn't give TD his ability to be an elite RB at the time, they guy was always talented. And Elway...enough said. I saw it coming from a mile away, and I even called it last offseason that he was not the guy to take over the Redskins because they needed an actual motivational coach, possibly a hard-nosed guy, to get them to try their best. Also, wasn't he the one who made the decision to switch to the 3-4? I questioned even back then who in that front 7 would fit the system and who wouldn't and just look at what happened. Andre Carter got 11 sacks in 2009 and was a great compliment to Orakpo. Then 2010 and Mike come along and the guy does nothing. Wasted talent. And we all know about benching Donovan, lol. If you look at their defensive rankings from those 2 seasons, they dropped from 10th overall to 31st.


I also think it's possible that we might soon see Jim Harbaugh on that list in for Lovie Smith. That is if the 49ers finally figure out the right formula.
[/quote]
You just used the same logic for why Raheem Morris is a top 5 coach for bringing in new players, and then dismissed it for Shanahan with Terrell Davis. Pretty sure Raheem Morris hasn't found any HOF HBs in the late rounds of the draft. Shanahan made 2 mistakes in Washington, switching to a 34 defense(which was mainly centered around giving Brian Orakpo more chances to get after the QB), and w/e the hell that whole McNabb deal was. I don't know how much more hard nosed it gets than basically kicking off your team a 100 million dollar DT in Haynesworth.

Raheem Morris is a good coach, but come on top 5 in the entire NFL?

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1302228996' post='663183']
You just used the same logic for why Raheem Morris is a top 5 coach for bringing in new players, and then dismissed it for Shanahan with Terrell Davis. Pretty sure Raheem Morris hasn't found any HOF HBs in the late rounds of the draft. Shanahan made 2 mistakes in Washington, switching to a 34 defense(which was mainly centered around giving Brian Orakpo more chances to get after the QB), and w/e the hell that whole McNabb deal was. I don't know how much more hard nosed it gets than basically kicking off your team a 100 million dollar DT in Haynesworth.

Raheem Morris is a good coach, but come on top 5 in the entire NFL?
[/quote]
So Raheem hasn't found a future HOFer in undrafted free agency, but his team is still winning games and on the right path. They're not so talented, but they get the job done for the most part. And if you want to talk about finding the right guys out of nowhere, just saying Shanahan is not the one who signed Rod Smith from undrafted free agency, and he inherited Elway, Shannon Sharpe and Steve Atwater.

What is so hard nosed about kicking off a fat and lazy player with dreadful work ethics? $100 million or not, Albert will never be a success or anywhere close to it in Washington at this rate. They have now come to terms with that. Congrats Shanahan, I'll give you that one even though I don't think it's worth much in your favor. Besides, that's not even anywhere close to hard nosed coaching of football. Hard nosed: Rex Ryan, Bill Cowher, Perry Fewell, John Gruden, Raheem Morris and others. People who will get in your face and make you play the best that you can and become the best you can. In no way, shape or form does that fit Shanahan right now.

I think Raheem is that high because again, he took them from 3 wins to 10 wins. They are a team to watch out for for the next god knows how many years. So he hasn't found a TD story yet. Doesn't mean he won't. But he drafted Mike Williams and found his QB of the future a legitimate #1 threat, something the Bucs were REALLY lacking before last season. And even though LaGarrette Blount is highly unlikely to have a HOF career, he was an undrafted FA and he did really well last year and probably will in the future.

[FerrariFan87]

If Harbs wasn't winless against Mike Tomlin and Big Ben, and Peyton Manning, I think he'd be higher. #10 is just fine as of this moment... if he gets us to and wins a Super Bowl, maybe he deserves Top 3.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1302231340' post='663205']
So Raheem hasn't found a future HOFer in undrafted free agency, but his team is still winning games and on the right path. They're not so talented, but they get the job done for the most part. And if you want to talk about finding the right guys out of nowhere, just saying Shanahan is not the one who signed Rod Smith from undrafted free agency, and he inherited Elway, Shannon Sharpe and Steve Atwater.

What is so hard nosed about kicking off a fat and lazy player with dreadful work ethics? $100 million or not, Albert will never be a success or anywhere close to it in Washington at this rate. They have now come to terms with that. Congrats Shanahan, I'll give you that one even though I don't think it's worth much in your favor. Besides, that's not even anywhere close to hard nosed coaching of football. Hard nosed: Rex Ryan, Bill Cowher, Perry Fewell, John Gruden, Raheem Morris and others. People who will get in your face and make you play the best that you can and become the best you can. In no way, shape or form does that fit Shanahan right now.

I think Raheem is that high because again, he took them from 3 wins to 10 wins. They are a team to watch out for for the next god knows how many years. So he hasn't found a TD story yet. Doesn't mean he won't. But he drafted Mike Williams and found his QB of the future a legitimate #1 threat, something the Bucs were REALLY lacking before last season. And even though LaGarrette Blount is highly unlikely to have a HOF career, he was an undrafted FA and he did really well last year and probably will in the future.
[/quote]
Name one other coach that has done anything close to what Shanahan did with Haynesworth. You don't have to be a crazy hard nosed coach to win championships, hell Dungy never raised his voice, and Dick Vermeil used to cry when you spilt his peanut butter and they both won Super Bowls. Tomlin isn't a screamer either for the sake of screaming, he raises his voice as a teaching tool to make sure his player understands how important it is what he's saying to him. You never hear Tomlin say "WHAT THE ** DO YOUR ** JOB!!"

You don't become a top 5 coach in the NFL for one season when you beat: Carolina (2), Bengals(on a brutal decision by Marvin to let Carson throw the ball around from inside their own 30 with like 50 seconds left), Browns, Rams 18-17, Cardinals 38-35, 49ers, Redskins because the holder botched an XP, and the Seahawks. Ill give them props for beating NO. But what is that,,,2 wins against playoff teams? And the Seahawks had a losing record.

Your not a top 5 coach in the NFL for beating 8 doo doo teams.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1302287157' post='663329']
Name one other coach that has done anything close to what Shanahan did with Haynesworth. You don't have to be a crazy hard nosed coach to win championships, hell Dungy never raised his voice, and Dick Vermeil used to cry when you spilt his peanut butter and they both won Super Bowls. Tomlin isn't a screamer either for the sake of screaming, he raises his voice as a teaching tool to make sure his player understands how important it is what he's saying to him. You never hear Tomlin say "WHAT THE ** DO YOUR ** JOB!!"

You don't become a top 5 coach in the NFL for one season when you beat: Carolina (2), Bengals(on a brutal decision by Marvin to let Carson throw the ball around from inside their own 30 with like 50 seconds left), Browns, Rams 18-17, Cardinals 38-35, 49ers, Redskins because the holder botched an XP, and the Seahawks. Ill give them props for beating NO. But what is that,,,2 wins against playoff teams? And the Seahawks had a losing record.

Your not a top 5 coach in the NFL for beating 8 doo doo teams.
[/quote]
Name one other coach that had anything close to a Haynesworth situation. He knew when the situation was broken beyond repair and he did what he HAD to. So the guy was guaranteed $21 million this season, but he realized that the skins had already lost on the deal and was going to move on without him. Leaving a player with a demeanor like that in the dust is not notably gutsy. But again, it doesn't cancel out what he did with the 3-4 and how he destroyed his relationship with Donovan.

And I never said you HAD to be a hard nosed coach to win a championship, did I? I was just using it as an example of something Shanahan is not. And what you said about Tomlin raising his voice as a "teaching tool"....how do you know Raheem doesn't do the same?

I think you do deserve credit for winning close games against sub par teams, why wouldn't you? Records don't mean a thing when you take the field, so why is it a surprise when bad teams take good ones to the limit? All that matters is the wins and losses. I would've thrown with 50 seconds left in a tie game. In that situation, I would've been wrong, but not in others, and the credit there goes to the Bucs D for making a play. Plus they fought back from a 14-3 deficit against the Browns to win. They also overcame their mistakes in the Rams game and put it together with the game on the line for the dramatic win. Plus, as inexcusable as it is to lose at home to the Lions with your playoff hopes hanging in the balance, at least they responded and won their final two games, one on the road at New Orleans.

Besides, who would you put in there instead? Belichek, Reid, McCarthy, Tomlin and......Mike Smith is a contender, but if people want to talk about how he changed the Falcons organization like that, Raheem did something very similar and with arguably less talented players.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1302289546' post='663345']
Name one other coach that had anything close to a Haynesworth situation. He knew when the situation was broken beyond repair and he did what he HAD to. So the guy was guaranteed $21 million this season, but he realized that the skins had already lost on the deal and was going to move on without him. Leaving a player with a demeanor like that in the dust is not notably gutsy. But again, it doesn't cancel out what he did with the 3-4 and how he destroyed his relationship with Donovan.

And I never said you HAD to be a hard nosed coach to win a championship, did I? I was just using it as an example of something Shanahan is not. And what you said about Tomlin raising his voice as a "teaching tool"....how do you know Raheem doesn't do the same?

I think you do deserve credit for winning close games against sub par teams, why wouldn't you? Records don't mean a thing when you take the field, so why is it a surprise when bad teams take good ones to the limit? All that matters is the wins and losses. I would've thrown with 50 seconds left in a tie game. In that situation, I would've been wrong, but not in others, and the credit there goes to the Bucs D for making a play. Plus they fought back from a 14-3 deficit against the Browns to win. They also overcame their mistakes in the Rams game and put it together with the game on the line for the dramatic win. Plus, as inexcusable as it is to lose at home to the Lions with your playoff hopes hanging in the balance, at least they responded and won their final two games, one on the road at New Orleans.

Besides, who would you put in there instead? Belichek, Reid, McCarthy, Tomlin and......Mike Smith is a contender, but if people want to talk about how he changed the Falcons organization like that, Raheem did something very similar and with arguably less talented players.
[/quote]
Because you never seen Mike Tomlin chasing a referee halfway across the field at half during a game for a questionable call. You get credit for winning games, but you don't get anything close to legit credit for getting 5 wins against teams who have top 5 picks in the draft this year. You can put basically anyone on that top 10 list is justified over Morris, they've all been to the playoffs multiple times and all but Smith have been to an AFC/NFC Championship game. Success in the NFL is measured in the playoffs.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1302292248' post='663353']
Because you never seen Mike Tomlin chasing a referee halfway across the field at half during a game for a questionable call. You get credit for winning games, but you don't get anything close to legit credit for getting 5 wins against teams who have top 5 picks in the draft this year. You can put basically anyone on that top 10 list is justified over Morris, they've all been to the playoffs multiple times and all but Smith have been to an AFC/NFC Championship game. Success in the NFL is measured in the playoffs.
[/quote]
Couglin over Morris. Coughlin, who again, can't seem to do his job well for a full season. Couglin, who went back to the yelling, crying, screaming and basically clawing his team to do well after they started 08 11-1. The SB win is outdated, and the Giants have been back to them old selves ever since.

Shanahan over Morris. Shanahan, who, if you think winning a chamionship just over three years ago is outdated, missed only one season of coaching since 1998 or since he started with Denver for that matter, and hasn't coached a playoff team in almost 6 years. The past is nullified. A lot of people don't agree with that, but there is just no way to refute it, and how good you are is measured by what you are doing in the present.

And we don't know what specifically Morris was saying to the refs after what I honestly think was a bad call. Did it look like straight up yelling with little that was contructive? Yes, but we can't confirm it, and it wasn't even at halfime, just before it. From my memory, it was only like a minute after the players went into the locker room.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1302293055' post='663358']
Couglin over Morris. Coughlin, who again, can't seem to do his job well for a full season. Couglin, who went back to the yelling, crying, screaming and basically clawing his team to do well after they started 08 11-1. The SB win is outdated, and the Giants have been back to them old selves ever since.

Shanahan over Morris. Shanahan, who, if you think winning a chamionship just over three years ago is outdated, missed only one season of coaching since 1998 or since he started with Denver for that matter, and hasn't coached a playoff team in almost 6 years. The past is nullified. A lot of people don't agree with that, but there is just no way to refute it, and how good you are is measured by what you are doing in the present.

And we don't know what specifically Morris was saying to the refs after what I honestly think was a bad call. Did it look like straight up yelling with little that was contructive? Yes, but we can't confirm it, and it wasn't even at halfime, just before it. From my memory, it was only like a minute after the players went into the locker room.
[/quote]
Coughlin beat what would have been the best team every assembled in a Super Bowl 3 years ago. How is that outdated? If 3 years to you is outdated, what time line is relevant?

Regardless, as a coach after a bad call who else have you seen run across the field to let the ref have it?

At this point in Morris' career he is not a top 10 coach, he's up and coming and if he gets the Bucs to the playoffs a couple times then we can discuss it. He hasn't been to the playoffs yet, how can you put him above guys who have?

[SpeedKills]

If you're making a list of up-and-coming coaches, Morris is definitely in the top 3. Otherwise, he should be in the 15 - 20 range. However good a job he's done with the Bucs (and he's done an excellent job), he still needs to win a playoff game or two before he even is considered for the top ten.

As for Harbaugh, the ranking is a good one. Great resume as for winning, in the reg. season and playoffs; but other than winning playoff games, what else has he done? He needs to win the AFC championship before he rises, in my opinion. Harbaugh's a great, great coach, and I think he'll crack the top 5 eventually.

[RavensAllTheWay]

Being the HC of a successful team of the past does not automatically cement you as a permanent good HC. Isn't it 2010-11 that were focusing on here?

[Clutch Ravens]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1302295968' post='663366']
Being the HC of a successful team of the past does not automatically cement you as a permanent good HC. Isn't it 2010-11 that were focusing on here?
[/quote]

If it is then Shanahan belongs in the bottom 10, maybe even 5.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1302295968' post='663366']
Being the HC of a successful team of the past does not automatically cement you as a permanent good HC. Isn't it 2010-11 that were focusing on here?
[/quote]
No because then McCarthy would be #1 and Tomlin #2. The article was the best 10 HC's in the NFL, not the best HC's in 2011.

[berad]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1302298903' post='663389']
No because then McCarthy would be #1 and Tomlin #2. The article was the best 10 HC's in the NFL, not the best HC's in 2011.
[/quote]

I'd argue that winning the SB doesn't automatically make you the best coach... but McCarthy has done a great job the past few years with the Packers, including having the audacity to tell Brett Favre that he would have to compete for his job [i](personally made me very happy)[/i]. Over the past 4 years, he has 40 wins - and that's including a 6-10 season.

You could argue for him over Reid but Reid did a pretty great job this year by choosing Vick over Kolb and adjusting his offense accordingly.

Anyways, I don't know why I wrote all that. You're right, the writers factored the past in heavily when they made these selections.

[justifythegame]

John Harbaugh should take notes, you can get to #1 on that list by cheating, stealing playbooks, videotaping practices and stealing signals off sidelines.