Foxworth Read Me

[ravenbeast]

i do not understand where any of the nfl players are coming from i seen the offer to you guys to raise the cap by 31 million owners had to spend 90 percent of the cap i read an article also about demarice smith or w.e his name is and he said he wanted a 50 50 split please tell me any company in america that splits there profits 50 50 with there employees you guys use there field there facility wear jerseys they own thats just the way it is. you guys should feel lucky you get such large salaries. so instead of tellin us fans we should put on our face paint and be sitting at the courthouse hoping u guys get ur decertification or w.e you should think about what u do got a 6million dollar a year paycheck plus w.e endorsments u get and be happy. the average american can hardly go watch u guys play cause for about 5 tickets and meals its over 600 bucks which is how much most people make in a week.

[TheRavenouseD2008]

I second that foxxy may I add , instead of seeking for self seek for others , ask the revenues go for lowering Ticket prices or concessions something for the fans dude with out use there is no NFL

[theFRANCHISE]

It's much, much more complicated than how you've laid it out, and it's not merely as simple as being happy with getting paid more than the average American.

When you wade past all of the PR crap that both sides are playing, you'll see that there's no easy answer that'll leave both sides satisfied. One has to compromise more than the other, and both are stubborn and refuse to budge. Please, however, don't pin this on Domonique Foxworth and the players, nor should you pin it on Steve Bisciotti and the owners; the people you want to direct your frustrations at are DeMaurice Smith and Roger Goodell.

[shawn ny]

[quote name='ravenbeast' timestamp='1300562692' post='656496']
i do not understand where any of the nfl players are coming from i seen the offer to you guys to raise the cap by 31 million owners had to spend 90 percent of the cap i read an article also about demarice smith or w.e his name is and he said he wanted a 50 50 split please tell me any company in america that splits there profits 50 50 with there employees you guys use there field there facility wear jerseys they own thats just the way it is. you guys should feel lucky you get such large salaries. so instead of tellin us fans we should put on our face paint and be sitting at the courthouse hoping u guys get ur decertification or w.e you should think about what u do got a 6million dollar a year paycheck plus w.e endorsments u get and be happy. the average american can hardly go watch u guys play cause for about 5 tickets and meals its over 600 bucks which is how much most people make in a week.
[/quote]

[ravenbeast]

There should be some kind of representation for the fans in this prices to go to games is getting exspensive and some games you can only see on certain networks and have to pay for special packages.notto mention this lockout will affect more than theses guys i heard a guy on the radio say he would loose his restraunt if there is no football cause people go there to watch the games and eat were talking about a lot of people losing there jobs in still trying times.there needs to be fan representation to imo.

[gabefergy]

As much as it sucks to be a fan during this, no one is forcing you to go to games or pay for anything. We go because we love the sport, but we are just consumers. I think the owners and players know how much we as fans are displeased by this lockout.

[ravenbeast]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1300575784' post='656612']
As much as it sucks to be a fan during this, no one is forcing you to go to games or pay for anything. We go because we love the sport, but we are just consumers. I think the owners and players know how much we as fans are displeased by this lockout.
[/quote]
Yea no one forces us to go to the game but dont u think its a little pathetic a guy can hardly afford to take his family to a game cause it costs so much and that is partially cause theses players make so much and yet they still want more if they do get more expect the prices for the little guy ticket buyers to go up.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='ravenbeast' timestamp='1300595820' post='656732']
Yea no one forces us to go to the game but dont u think its a little pathetic a guy can hardly afford to take his family to a game cause it costs so much and that is partially cause theses players make so much and yet they still want more if they do get more expect the prices for the little guy ticket buyers to go up.
[/quote]
While I agree that ticket prices are entirely too high, at the same time, I understand the reasons for it. The gameday experience at the NFL level is matched by few professional sports leagues in the United States, and it costs loads of money to put on that type of production. Operational costs alone put ticket prices in a premium range. Player salaries and other team-related costs push prices even further than that. In an ironic kind of way, we're almost fortunate that playoff and Super Bowl tickets are so expensive since they seem to partially defray the cost of putting on regular season games.

My point is, this is the nature of the beast when it comes to the business. The game has evolved so much that it was only natural that the cost of attending one would increase. While I think that other things could be done to benefit the fans (like lowering the cost of preseason games), I've come to accept the beast for what it is because I enjoy this enhanced product. I can appreciate old-school NFL games for what they are, but I couldn't go back to a barebones presentation on gameday after having been spoiled on the production values and luxuries of today.

[Dubs]

[quote name='ravenbeast' timestamp='1300562692' post='656496']
i read an article also about demarice smith or w.e his name is and he said he wanted a 50 50 split please tell me any company in america that splits there profits 50 50 with there employees you guys use there field there facility wear jerseys they own thats just the way it is. you guys should feel lucky you get such large salaries. [/quote]

not to be a complete jerk but in many if not most industries (atleast in Canada) salaries and benefits encompass over 50% total income of the businesses..

I look at the debate is who do you want/deserves the money the most as its gotta go somewhere, the players or the owners?
I tend to lean players, even if they are paid great relative to the rest of us, because the owners are paid great relative to the players, why keep widening the gap more.

[organizedchaos007]

First i'd like to say this.... its not just the players fault, it goes both ways. Like Franchise said... its way more complicated than that. I have not and will not pick sides on this, im on football's side. There are defenses for both side, but just responding to yours lemme give you alittle defense of the players.

~~ First off, this is "as" close to a partnership as you can get without actually being a (partnership). You need to think of it like this... any normal business, the basic structure is 1/3 owner, 1/3 product, 1/3 employee. Now if you look at it in that context, you clearly see the players are the employee AND the product... making up 2/3 of this equation. The players are not "just" employees.

~~ second off, the previous CBA established the best deal the players have had up to this point. They have been fighting for THAT deal for a long long time and in many aspects, well deserving of it. Now the owners are asking them to take a significant pay cut. Which the players have stated they would not be opposed to meeting owners demands on salary cuts if the proper financial info was provided(not just 5 years) its not long enought to make an accurate average off of, and ontop of that... its extremely easy to find ways to find ways to "lose" money on paper. ANd i can understand why owners may be opposed to that... examples include (being exposed for the wrong decisions they have made with investments, being exposed by "hiding" profit, and just the competition between teams... meaning they may not want to expose their structure and have another team copy it).

~~ What the players wanted THIS CBA... the owners offered them that... after the 4th year (progressively escallating to that point) ... well in 4 years, we will be 2 years from a new CBA. Meaning, the owners would have stalled... "recooping the money they feel they lost from the last CBA" over the course of those 4 years. WITHOUT giving them an actual "audited" reason why they feel that deal was bad in the first place, or why the players need to take that much of a cut. I can tell you, realistically only a small handful of teams are actually "losing" money.

~~ What bothers me about ALL this.. is the fact of how insanely successful football is even in this economy. Its grown 10 fold from 10 years ago. With sirius radio, certain analysts such as Pat Kirwin who writes a book that helps fuel the desire for knowledge about football, NFL network etc. It IS extremely profitable (if money is spent the right way).


Regardless, they just need to get it done.

[Purple Nurple]

How would he take this thread seriously when the first post has eight sentences before its first period?

Foxworth, [i]PLEASE[/i] don't read this thread.

[littleray27]

[quote name='ravenbeast' timestamp='1300562692' post='656496']
i do not understand where any of the nfl players are coming from i seen the offer to you guys to raise the cap by 31 million owners had to spend 90 percent of the cap i read an article also about demarice smith or w.e his name is and he said he wanted a 50 50 split please tell me any company in america that splits there profits 50 50 with there employees you guys use there field there facility wear jerseys they own thats just the way it is. you guys should feel lucky you get such large salaries. so instead of tellin us fans we should put on our face paint and be sitting at the courthouse hoping u guys get ur decertification or w.e you should think about what u do got a 6million dollar a year paycheck plus w.e endorsments u get and be happy. the average american can hardly go watch u guys play cause for about 5 tickets and meals its over 600 bucks which is how much most people make in a week.
[/quote]

I understand both sides and I could care less any more. I just want a football season(S) THE END. Oh and if it wasn't for the players these owners wouldn't have a facility, jerseys and blah blah blah...

[Marc2k6]

[quote name='ravenbeast' timestamp='1300562692' post='656496']
i do not understand where any of the nfl players are coming from i seen the offer to you guys to raise the cap by 31 million owners had to spend 90 percent of the cap i read an article also about demarice smith or w.e his name is and he said he wanted a 50 50 split please tell me any company in america that splits there profits 50 50 with there employees you guys use there field there facility wear jerseys they own thats just the way it is. you guys should feel lucky you get such large salaries. so instead of tellin us fans we should put on our face paint and be sitting at the courthouse hoping u guys get ur decertification or w.e you should think about what u do got a 6million dollar a year paycheck plus w.e endorsments u get and be happy. the average american can hardly go watch u guys play cause for about 5 tickets and meals its over 600 bucks which is how much most people make in a week.
[/quote]
Hmmmm! Well how many companies are in the business of selling a product that is the employee? When you go out and buy a jersey, you usually buy one that has one of your favorite players name on the back. When you go to the game, you go to see your team and your favorite players play football. You are not going to or turning on the game to watch a bunch of regular Joe's play football. What the NFL sells is the name and performance of it's Marquee players.

[heapitup247]

Since we are in tough economic times, its only fair the owners get more because their revenue isn't where it was expected to be. Most employees are on wage freezes across the country, if not being laid off. That being said, players are all still employed and their wages are increasing yearly. No company allows unions to look at their books, its a huge liability.

The players need to realize that they need the NFL more than these owners do. The owners all made their millions elsewhere, but the players have really no other skills other than playing football. A 50-50 split is more than reasonable. 141 million split 53 ways is not unreasonable. There's plenty of people working in coal mines or machine shops with twice the risk and 1/20th of the pay.

The players say all the time "this is a business" but at this point they aren't treating it like one. They do have a legitimate point in the NFL-TV deals. At this point both sides are just trying to appeal to fans by blaming the other side.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='Marc2k6' timestamp='1300709708' post='657098']
Hmmmm! Well how many companies are in the business of selling a product that is the employee? When you go out and buy a jersey, you usually buy one that has one of your favorite players name on the back. When you go to the game, you go to see your team and your favorite players play football. You are not going to or turning on the game to watch a bunch of regular Joe's play football. What the NFL sells is the name and performance of it's Marquee players.
[/quote]

Exactly. You can't compare football to a normal job and say 50% is a lot for the employees. IMO, 50% is a lot for the owners. They're sitting on a billion dollar asset that is only growing (the NFL franchise). They're making tens of millions of dollars in profit each year, when you average it out among the teams. It's not the players' problem that some franchises are weak; the NFL shouldn't have put a team in Jacksonville if they were so worried about that. They should pay the price for that bad business decision. The players are the heart of the sport, not the owners and their taxpayer subsidized stadiums. They should be thankful that the players are willing to agree to a 50-50 split.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='heapitup247' timestamp='1300726239' post='657163']
Since we are in tough economic times, its only fair the owners get more because their revenue isn't where it was expected to be. Most employees are on wage freezes across the country, if not being laid off. That being said, players are all still employed and their wages are increasing yearly. No company allows unions to look at their books, its a huge liability.

The players need to realize that they need the NFL more than these owners do. The owners all made their millions elsewhere, but the players have really no other skills other than playing football. A 50-50 split is more than reasonable. 141 million split 53 ways is not unreasonable. There's plenty of people working in coal mines or machine shops with twice the risk and 1/20th of the pay.
[/quote]

I fail to see the relevance of any of that. Tough economic times do not imply that owners of businesses should take a higher percentage of revenue. Wage freezes are largely for govt jobs, hardly a business and hardly comparable when our govt posts a 400 billion dollar deficit each year. Players are still employed because they have a lot of value, THEY have the value not the owners.

Maybe some owners don't need the money, but some of them do need the cash flow because they have debts. The players have the skills that we are all paying for, football skills. A 50-50 split IS more than reasonable; that's what the players are willing to agree to (after accounting for ALL money, including the billion that the owners take off the top). The owners want more. The crappy jobs that others have to work are irrelevant; players have the value, they deserve at least 50%.

[heapitup247]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1300727500' post='657169']
I fail to see the relevance of any of that. Tough economic times do not imply that owners of businesses should take a higher percentage of revenue. Wage freezes are largely for govt jobs, hardly a business and hardly comparable when our govt posts a 400 billion dollar deficit each year. Players are still employed because they have a lot of value, THEY have the value not the owners.

Maybe some owners don't need the money, but some of them do need the cash flow because they have debts. The players have the skills that we are all paying for, football skills. A 50-50 split IS more than reasonable; that's what the players are willing to agree to (after accounting for ALL money, including the billion that the owners take off the top). The owners want more. The crappy jobs that others have to work are irrelevant; players have the value, they deserve at least 50%.
[/quote]

They need a higher percentage revenue to continue to cover costs and still maintain growth. Most companies would cut employees and spending to minimize cost, but the NFL can't do that, so they need a higher percentage of the revenue share. Players have 0 value in anything not football, and what they "deserve" is irrelevant. For 90% if there's no football, there's no income. The NFL is not going to lose players to another organization. You only "deserve" what someone is willing to pay you.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='heapitup247' timestamp='1300743783' post='657295']
They need a higher percentage revenue to continue to cover costs and still maintain growth. Most companies would cut employees and spending to minimize cost, but the NFL can't do that, so they need a higher percentage of the revenue share. Players have 0 value in anything not football, and what they "deserve" is irrelevant. For 90% if there's no football, there's no income. The NFL is not going to lose players to another organization. You only "deserve" what someone is willing to pay you.
[/quote]

Maintain growth? Are the owners not collectively making a lot of profit each season? They want more profit, but they're dealing with a unionized labor force, one with special skills.

Some players have value in other things besides football, so that's just a stupid statement you made. Players honestly deserve most of the money, so the owners should be thankful to pay 50%.