I Feel For You Guys

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1299363813' post='649543']
And, as HC, why would that not be an accurate statement? He is in charge of his coordinators after all. He never dealt with Cam and allowed the crap to continue unchecked all season long.
[/quote]

He never dealt with Cam? What did you want him to do? Can him? Who would you have rather called the plays? Let's not forget that firing a coordinator in the middle of the season rarely works out for the best. Should he have given him a talking to? Sure, but we all know Cam is stubborn in his philosophy. Face it, Cam was going to do what Cam was going to do. Unless I'm remembering wrong (which I may be) didn't Biscotti even say after the season he supported Cam as Coordinator?

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1299363813' post='649543']
He does get credit for those things. All the time. By everyone. I find it odd that by your very last statement you make the posters' point. You want everyone to acknowledge those things as positives (which they are, and most everyone does) but then want the blame to fall elsewhere for his shortcomings.
[/quote]

Made the posters point? Hardly. Sorry, but lumping poor execution by his team on Harbaugh is silly. Is he at fault for letting Cam run rampant with his play calling? Sure. But is he at blame for Oher just letting Polamalu run right into the backfield and lay Flacco out? No. Is he at fault for Joe throwing it to Clark? No. We all know Harbs was never anything more than a Special Teams coordinator and Defensive back/secondary coach, and is not very involved in the playcalling. So lumping blame on to his for poor execution by his players against a very good team is dumb. Mental lapses happen by players, we saw it by Oher and Flacco namely this year.

I made my point over this whole ordeal with the laughable examples of Fox and McDaniels. Fox's team tanked horribly and McDaniels had major issues. Neither is the case for the Ravens and Harbaugh. This isn't even like the situation with Brian Billick. He was a winning coach, however he also called the offensive plays, and we saw what happened. Harbaugh did what he needed to do the last three years, and left the play calling to those who have more experience with it. Should the offensive side have been handled differently? Maybe, maybe not. We'll see what happens next year when John gets more involved with the offense.

I'm sorry that I'm not going to go around and place players mistakes and mental lapses against the freaking Steelers (of all teams) on Harbaugh.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1299364043' post='649544']
It's hard to consider a short, quick pass on a 2nd & 5 a [i]"stupid, stupid play call"[/i]. If it had worked, if Oher would have impeded Polamalu even a split-second as he was supposed to, we very well may have had a first down and claimed the second seed in the AFC.
[/quote]

It is not a stupid play. It was a stupid play [i]call[/i] because of the situation. We are leading. We are in our own territory. Their offense was not moving the ball. We have a top notch punter and good ST unit. There was only just over 3 mins left in the game. If we'd run the ball and punted, we very well may have claimed the 2nd seed in the AFC. Besides, at that point the run game was averaging around 4 yds a carry. We may very well have made the first down on a run play.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1299371817' post='649578']
He never dealt with Cam? What did you want him to do? Can him? Who would you have rather called the plays? Let's not forget that firing a coordinator in the middle of the season rarely works out for the best. Should he have given him a talking to? Sure, but we all know Cam is stubborn in his philosophy. Face it, Cam was going to do what Cam was going to do. Unless I'm remembering wrong (which I may be) didn't Biscotti even say after the season he supported Cam as Coordinator?
[/quote]

Actually, he said "John feels and I'm going with that" about staying with Cam under fire for next season. Didn't expect him to fire him in the middle of the season but from his staunch defending of him to the FO doesn't it become obvious that he has a blind spot where Cam is concerned?


[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1299371817' post='649578']
Made the posters point? Hardly. Sorry, but lumping poor execution by his team on Harbaugh is silly. Is he at fault for letting Cam run rampant with his play calling? Sure. But is he at blame for Oher just letting Polamalu run right into the backfield and lay Flacco out? No. Is he at fault for Joe throwing it to Clark? No. We all know Harbs was never anything more than a Special Teams coordinator and Defensive back/secondary coach, and is not very involved in the playcalling. So lumping blame on to his for poor execution by his players against a very good team is dumb. Mental lapses happen by players, we saw it by Oher and Flacco namely this year.

I made my point over this whole ordeal with the laughable examples of Fox and McDaniels. Fox's team tanked horribly and McDaniels had major issues. Neither is the case for the Ravens and Harbaugh. This isn't even like the situation with Brian Billick. He was a winning coach, however he also called the offensive plays, and we saw what happened. Harbaugh did what he needed to do the last three years, and left the play calling to those who have more experience with it. Should the offensive side have been handled differently? Maybe, maybe not. We'll see what happens next year when John gets more involved with the offense.

I'm sorry that I'm not going to go around and place players mistakes and mental lapses against the freaking Steelers (of all teams) on Harbaugh.
[/quote]

I wasn't referring to letting Harbaugh go or anything of the sort. I like Harbs. Just don't like his blind Cam love. I'm hoping he has a knack for offense, we'll see. I was referring to the posters' comment about heaping the praise on Harbaugh for the good he's done here in three years, but giving him a walk on shortcomings.

[berad]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1299410920' post='649658']
It is not a stupid play. It was a stupid play [i]call[/i] because of the situation. We are leading. We are in our own territory. Their offense was not moving the ball. We have a top notch punter and good ST unit. There was only just over 3 mins left in the game. If we'd run the ball and punted, we very well may have claimed the 2nd seed in the AFC. Besides, at that point the run game was averaging around 4 yds a carry. We may very well have made the first down on a run play.
[/quote]

No, not really. The running game was averaging less than 2.5 ypc, and that's not factoring in Stallworth's -11 yard reverse. Running it, in that situation, is a defeatist strategy.

Again, I don't feel a quick pass play call is "stupid", in any form. It's a quick pass, it's supposed to be extremely low risk but that's with the assumption that the offensive line can execute its protections - Michael Oher didn't.

So, I'm not going to fault Cameron or Harbaugh for that one. People have been upset at Cameron for going conservative with a lead, this was an example of the opposite. Running the ball into a brick wall and punting to a clutch, All-Pro QB is much more damning than trying a quick out-route to Dickson for a much-needed first down. Hard to fault Cameron for that... If you're mad about it and need someone to blame, look at Michael Oher or fault Flacco for not holding onto the ball.

This is too much football for the OT forum...

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1299411603' post='649660']
I wasn't referring to letting Harbaugh go or anything of the sort. I like Harbs. Just don't like his blind Cam love. I'm hoping he has a knack for offense, we'll see. I was referring to the posters' comment about heaping the praise on Harbaugh for the good he's done here in three years, but giving him a walk on shortcomings.
[/quote]

Because the good he's done far outweighs the extremely minor "shortcomings". And how do you know he has "blind Cam love"? Perhaps he just knows that the last thing a team needs is internal strife. Especially a team that's headed to the playoffs. Am I excusing Cam for his own shortcomings? No. But Harbaugh is the head coach for a reason, and he's been an extremely successful head coach so far. So when push comes to shove, I don't find it very hard to trust that the man knows what he's doing and whats in the best interest for the franchise. If Harbaugh and the front office saw someone they thought would be better suited for running this team's offense, then I'm sure Cam would have had his pink slip already.

If the offense continues to be stagnant next year then I'm sure Cam will be dealt with, one way or another.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1299428223' post='649684']
No, not really. The running game was averaging less than 2.5 ypc, and that's not factoring in Stallworth's -11 yard reverse. Running it, in that situation, is a defeatist strategy.

Again, I don't feel a quick pass play call is "stupid", in any form. It's a quick pass, it's supposed to be extremely low risk but that's with the assumption that the offensive line can execute its protections - Michael Oher didn't.

So, I'm not going to fault Cameron or Harbaugh for that one. People have been upset at Cameron for going conservative with a lead, this was an example of the opposite. Running the ball into a brick wall and punting to a clutch, All-Pro QB is much more damning than trying a quick out-route to Dickson for a much-needed first down. Hard to fault Cameron for that... If you're mad about it and need someone to blame, look at Michael Oher or fault Flacco for not holding onto the ball.

This is too much football for the OT forum...
[/quote]


Agreed. It's called play to win over playing not to lose. Steelers did the very same thing against the Jets in the AFCCG and were successful. Nothing id fool proof and sometimes there's luck involved.