I Dont Think Wr Should Be Our Priority This Draft...

[RoflDogs]

I love Q, but I don't remember him breaking too many tackles last year

We need to inject some youth into our receiving corp

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1298495490' post='644282']
I love Q, but I don't remember him breaking too many tackles last year

We need to inject some youth into our receiving corp
[/quote]

Neither do I. To be honest, he only impressed after the catch twice that I can remember.

Agreed with your second comment.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='justifythegame' timestamp='1298493817' post='644260']
no u need to look at them, he was. 78 n 63, 141 receptions last 2 years.
[/quote]
Just because Rice gets a lot of receptions doesn't mean he is the number one option. Its called a check down for a reason, if WRs aren't open because Cam sent them on fly routes then then Joe dumps it off to Rice. Ray happens to be exceptionally good receiver for a RB, so it often works out. The problem is the WRs were not able to get open consistently, this is due to a combination of poor play design and straight up lack of explosiveness and separation from the WRs.

[bpytnjr58]

The WR's that they had last year were not used like they should have been...there is too much talent right now...why draft for one..Defense should be #1 priority.

[gabefergy]

I think WR is definitely a need, and if we don't get one in the first 3 rounds ill be a bit upset. That said this year's WR class is not that deep, and until I see more out of Torrey Smith and Titus Young I don't think that's a great pick in the first rd. The Ravens have enough need at DE, OLB, CB, and OT that there will probably be a better pick at 26 that would have immediate impact.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='bpytnjr58' timestamp='1298500135' post='644332']
The WR's that they had last year were not used like they should have been...there is too much talent right now...why draft for one..Defense should be #1 priority.
[/quote]

Boldin was misused and underutilized. And the same can be said about Houshmandzadeh and Stallworth. Right now though, only Boldin, Mason and Reed are under contract for next season and Q and Mase are both over 30 and WRs.

That's why the team has to draft a WR.

[DE_RavensFan]

[quote name='rezarxt' timestamp='1298471346' post='644079']
I really think we need to go other places than WR in the draft. All this Torrey Smith talk is nice and all but Id prefer we draft Oline in the first round. Check out this Boldin video and tell me that we dont have a solid #1. Mason can give us the number 2 we need for this season. Draft another WR maybe in the later rounds to compete with D. Reed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8cpsgyPe2A
[/quote]
No WR is not the focus I think 'O' Line and Corner / Safety is ravens focus this year.

[ed.s52]

We should draft a WR or two sometime during the draft but I think it is being way overplayed. In my opinion, Trading up a couple of picks and stealing Julio Jones would be the ideal situation, or trading up/down and snatching Baldwin from the early second, but I personally would like a 2nd or 3rd round receiver rather than a first. Little from UNC would be nice in the 3rd.

But as for why WR isn't as pressing of a need a people say:

-Stallworth will hopefully not break his foot this season and there is no doubt he has the speed to be a deep threat
-Michael Flyod and other FA options.Regardless of what people, or even what I think of him, there is no doubt that Moss is a legitimate option for the FO, who could turn out like TO did for the Bengals last season, except better with a Super Bowl ring, it is a little risky but there is no doubt he has an upside.
-Boldin lost a step, but its being exagerrated in my opinion. I'd call it a half a step maybe and he's still a legit #1.
-A lot of the WR woes are due to blocking errors or awful playcalls, which can be corrected with injecting new players into the system


There is no doubt that a new WR could be beneficial, especially one with speed, but all the hoopla associated with it is soooo overplayed. We do not "need" youth injected into the WR core. It would be nice, but I would call it more of a luxury than a necesity. If it isn't Julio Jones, I don't believe there is another reciever worth of a first rounder.


And here is another question:
Why do many say a stopgap veteran LT is a good idea, but not a WR? I'm not saying we should aim for that, but if need be and we get a legit deep threat out of it, why not?

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1298502960' post='644402']
We should draft a WR or two sometime during the draft but I think it is being way overplayed. In my opinion, Trading up a couple of picks and stealing Julio Jones would be the ideal situation, or trading up/down and snatching Baldwin from the early second, but I personally would like a 2nd or 3rd round receiver rather than a first. Little from UNC would be nice in the 3rd.

But as for why WR isn't as pressing of a need a people say:

-Stallworth will hopefully not break his foot this season and there is no doubt he has the speed to be a deep threat
-Michael Flyod and other FA options.Regardless of what people, or even what I think of him, there is no doubt that Moss is a legitimate option for the FO, who could turn out like TO did for the Bengals last season, except better with a Super Bowl ring, it is a little risky but there is no doubt he has an upside.
-Boldin lost a step, but its being exagerrated in my opinion. I'd call it a half a step maybe and he's still a legit #1.
-A lot of the WR woes are due to blocking errors or awful playcalls, which can be corrected with injecting new players into the system


There is no doubt that a new WR could be beneficial, especially one with speed, but all the hoopla associated with it is soooo overplayed. We do not "need" youth injected into the WR core. It would be nice, but I would call it more of a luxury than a necesity. If it isn't Julio Jones, I don't believe there is another reciever worth of a first rounder.


And here is another question:
Why do many say a stopgap veteran LT is a good idea, but not a WR? I'm not saying we should aim for that, but if need be and we get a legit deep threat out of it, why not?
[/quote]
I agree with the statement that outside Green & Jones, none of the other prospects really stand out as 1st rounders. I really like Greg Little & Austin Pettis. They both look pretty good to me. Outside of them, I like Baldwin in the 2nd.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1298502960' post='644402']
We should draft a WR or two sometime during the draft but I think it is being way overplayed. In my opinion, Trading up a couple of picks and stealing Julio Jones would be the ideal situation, or trading up/down and snatching Baldwin from the early second, but I personally would like a 2nd or 3rd round receiver rather than a first. Little from UNC would be nice in the 3rd.

But as for why WR isn't as pressing of a need a people say:

[b]-Stallworth will hopefully not break his foot this season and there is no doubt he has the speed to be a deep threat
-Michael Flyod and other FA options.Regardless of what people, or even what I think of him, there is no doubt that Moss is a legitimate option for the FO, who could turn out like TO did for the Bengals last season, except better with a Super Bowl ring, it is a little risky but there is no doubt he has an upside. [/b]
-Boldin lost a step, but its being exagerrated in my opinion. I'd call it a half a step maybe and he's still a legit #1.
[b]-A lot of the WR woes are due to blocking errors or awful playcalls, which can be corrected with injecting new players into the system
[/b]

[b]There is no doubt that a new WR could be beneficial, especially one with speed, but all the hoopla associated with it is soooo overplayed. We do not "need" youth injected into the WR core. It would be nice, but I would call it more of a luxury than a necesity. If it isn't Julio Jones, I don't believe there is another reciever worth of a first rounder.

And here is another question:
Why do many say a stopgap veteran LT is a good idea, but not a WR? I'm not saying we should aim for that, but if need be and we get a legit deep threat out of it, why not?[/b]
[/quote]

There's no guarantee Stallworth is re-signed. Personally, I don't want him back.

The latest reports suggest the Chargers will re-sign [i]Malcom[/i] Floyd. As for Moss, he isn't a legitimate option. There are numerous reasons two teams let him go his past season and he caught 6 balls for 80 yards and no TDs in 8 games with the third, and his play on the field is a big part of it.

The breakdowns in pass protection and play-calling were issues but let's not pretend they were the only ones.

The team [i]does[/i] need an infusion youth at the WR position. I don't see how it'd be a luxury when two of the WRs under contract next season are over 30.

To your final question, it's pretty obvious. We all saw how stockpiling stopgap WRs affected the passing game this season. Ideally, I think most of us would like to see Gaither re-signed or have the team draft a tackle. An aging veteran at tackle would be the last option.

[ed.s52]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1298504814' post='644429']
There's no guarantee Stallworth is re-signed. Personally, I don't want him back.

The latest reports suggest the Chargers will re-sign [i]Malcom[/i] Floyd. As for Moss, he isn't a legitimate option. There are numerous reasons two teams let him go his past season and he caught 6 balls for 80 yards and no TDs in 8 games with the third, and his play on the field is a big part of it.

The breakdowns in pass protection and play-calling were issues but let's not pretend they were the only ones.

The team [i]does[/i] need an infusion youth at the WR position. I don't see how it'd be a luxury when two of the WRs under contract next season are over 30.

To your final question, it's pretty obvious. We all saw how stockpiling stopgap WRs affected the passing game this season. Ideally, I think most of us would like to see Gaither re-signed or have the team draft a tackle. An aging veteran at tackle would be the last option.
[/quote]

He said he would want to come back if given more snaps, which losing Housh and having Mase become less skilled will probably do, and his speed does make him a deep threat, although how good of one he is remains to be seen.

Who says they'll have the money or be willing to give the money Floyd wants. There is a good chance he will leave.


I never said he was the right option, or even a good option at that, but a legitimate one. When the FO meets and discusses ways to get a talented, fast WR Moss is an option on some people's mind. And perhaps after the season he's had he's been slightly humbled, we don't know Moss personally so we wouldn't know.

I'm not saying they were the only ones, but if they were adressed I believe our corps would beast it up, a new player would just take them to a different level of beast mode.


We might really realy want youth there so we won't need to adress the position in the near future. But lets say (just for example) Moss didn't have character problems and still has it (it being his game), would you not say we have good recievers if it were him and Boldin on our team? If Boldin and Moss made the Pro Bowl in this hypothetical situation would that not be stellar?
I'm not saying youth wouldn't be nice, but the concern should be more about talent than age.

I think the true problem was a lack of deep threat speed on our team. Our top three were all possession recievers, and Mase really declined. Also, the recievers weren't used right, which added to our problems. If our recievers were correctly used, Flacco had more time, and one of those recievers was a home run threat with elite speed, regardless of their age we would have seen different, much more productive results.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1298505855' post='644442']
He said he would want to come back if given more snaps, which losing Housh and having Mase become less skilled will probably do, and his speed does make him a deep threat, although how good of one he is remains to be seen.

Who says they'll have the money or be willing to give the money Floyd wants. There is a good chance he will leave.

I never said he was the right option, or even a good option at that, but a legitimate one. When the FO meets and discusses ways to get a talented, fast WR Moss is an option on some people's mind. And perhaps after the season he's had he's been slightly humbled, we don't know Moss personally so we wouldn't know.

I'm not saying they were the only ones, but if they were adressed I believe our corps would beast it up, a new player would just take them to a different level of beast mode.

We might really realy want youth there so we won't need to adress the position in the near future. But lets say (just for example) Moss didn't have character problems and still has it (it being his game), would you not say we have good recievers if it were him and Boldin on our team? If Boldin and Moss made the Pro Bowl in this hypothetical situation would that not be stellar?
I'm not saying youth wouldn't be nice, but the concern should be more about talent than age.

I think the true problem was a lack of deep threat speed on our team. Our top three were all possession recievers, and Mase really declined. Also, the recievers weren't used right, which added to our problems. If our recievers were correctly used, Flacco had more time, and one of those recievers was a home run threat with elite speed, regardless of their age we would have seen different, much more productive results.
[/quote]

It really isn't about whether Stallworth wants to return or not. The bigger issue is whether the team wants him back.

How do you there's a "good chance" Floyd leaves? I haven't heard of San Diego having cap issues. And looking at the free agents the Chargers have, with V-Jax having been franchised, Floyd could be re-signed.

But even if he hits the market, why do you want him here? He's always battling injuries and turns 30 this year. I'd actually be more comfortable if the team put their hopes in Hardy.

I disagree the current corps would "beast it up" if the o-line was solidified and passing philosophy improved. All hypothetical scenarios aside, Mason will more than likely return next season. Which means David Reed and someone else will likely competing for the #3 role(hopefully one or both them is push Mason for snaps by mid-season). Ideally I'd open up a competition at WR in training camp but Mason's track record will likely guarantee him a starting role opposite Q. But my main point is I'd rather the 4th WR be someone who could theoretically be on the team 5 years down the line.

In response to your fifth point, the concern [i]is[/i] focused on talent. We all want and expect the team to draft a talented rookie. With Moss, he's never been a diverse route runner and with his skills having diminished, he actually hurts the offense he plays for just as much as he threatens defenses.

I agree with your last paragraph.

[ed.s52]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1298507804' post='644464']
It really isn't about whether Stallworth wants to return or not. The bigger issue is whether the team wants him back.

How do you there's a "good chance" Floyd leaves? I haven't heard of San Diego having cap issues. And looking at the free agents the Chargers have, with V-Jax having been franchised, Floyd could be re-signed.

But even if he hits the market, why do you want him here? He's always battling injuries and turns 30 this year. I'd actually be more comfortable if the team put their hopes in Hardy.

I disagree the current corps would "beast it up" if the o-line was solidified and passing philosophy improved. All hypothetical scenarios aside, Mason will more than likely return next season. Which means David Reed and someone else will likely competing for the #3 role(hopefully one or both them is push Mason for snaps by mid-season). Ideally I'd open up a competition at WR in training camp but Mason's track record will likely guarantee him a starting role opposite Q. But my main point is I'd rather the 4th WR be someone who could theoretically be on the team 5 years down the line.

In response to your fifth point, the concern [i]is[/i] focused on talent. We all want and expect the team to draft a talented rookie. With Moss, he's never been a diverse route runner and with his skills having diminished, he actually hurts the offense he plays for just as much as he threatens defenses.

I agree with your last paragraph.
[/quote]

I know that, I'm saying I want him back because I think he can be a deep threat and a decent reciever given the oppurtunity (which he wasn't given last season). I hope the team agrees.

But how much would SD be willing to pay for a #2. I'm not saying the chances are high that he comes here, just that he decides to leave. I think Floyd has the chance to be a number one on a lower end team. Perhaps that's what he wants, or maybe he wants a ring, which the Ravens have a much better chance of.

I actually think they would be a lot better, especially if our O-line woes also were fixed in the run game. The run game this year (ranked 25th) was another huge hole that made passing that much harder. Beast it up may have been a bit of an exaggeration, but there is no doubt the corps would have looked much better.

If that is what you want, a 4th reciever that is young, I'm all for it. I want 2nd receiver that is preferably young and fast. If we do trade up and snag Julio Jones (if he falls) like I want us to, this would be ideal for us. If we snagged a FA that could go deep that would be great also. And unless Mase shows some improvement I'm not even sure he'd be worthy of the 2nd spot next year.


That Moss comparison was just an example because I couldn't think of a better one at the moment. The point is I'd rather take a speedy vet that can play a lot of snaps for us than a fast rookie with potential but not as good as the aforementioned vet, because the rookie would cost a pick and the vet would just cost money.


Glad we can agree on something. Just as I said in that paragraph, if we can retain our corps (besides Housh) and add a deep threat player, be it a veteran or a young guy, or if Stallworth can become good, our corps would be an effective group

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1298508732' post='644473']
If that is what you want, a 4th reciever that is young, I'm all for it. I want 2nd receiver that is preferably young and fast. If we do trade up and snag Julio Jones (if he falls) like I want us to, this would be ideal for us. If we snagged a FA that could go deep that would be great also. And unless Mase shows some improvement I'm not even sure he'd be worthy of the 2nd spot next year.

That Moss comparison was just an example because I couldn't think of a better one at the moment. The point is I'd rather take a speedy vet that can play a lot of snaps for us than a fast rookie with potential but not as good as the aforementioned vet, because the rookie would cost a pick and the vet would just cost money.

Glad we can agree on something. Just as I said in that paragraph, if we can retain our corps (besides Housh) and add a deep threat player, be it a veteran or a young guy, or if Stallworth can become good, our corps would be an effective group
[/quote]

I said I'd prefer if the #4 WR was young. Obviously, I'd love to see the team have a #2 with youth and potential as well. However, with Mason likely returning, the only way I don't see him opening the season as the #2 is if he gets hurt. I don't think he's starting material either but loyalty goes a long way.

Fair enough. My outlook extends beyond this season though. Rather than paying an explosive veteran and having his play fall off in a year or two, I'd rather the team go through growing pains with a younger WR that has room to grow.

[ed.s52]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1298510388' post='644496']
I said I'd prefer if the #4 WR was young. Obviously, I'd love to see the team have a #2 with youth and potential as well. However, with Mason likely returning, the only way I don't see him opening the season as the #2 is if he gets hurt. I don't think he's starting material either but loyalty goes a long way.

Fair enough. My outlook extends beyond this season though. Rather than paying an explosive veteran and having his play fall off in a year or two, I'd rather the team go through growing pains with a younger WR that has room to grow.
[/quote]


I guess loyalty is a valid arguement, and a lot of it depends on the number of 3 or 4 WR sets we run, because if we run them predominately Mase will still get his snaps.

I do agree that a younger WR will take care of our WR issue for years to come, all I'm saying is that it isn't as pressing of a need as people say it is. Having a WR for years to come is a very very valuable thing, but not a very pressing need.
I just don't think people should be trippin bout the WR position like some have been, especially with having youth at it because although it is helpful I wouldnt call it necessary.

Either way I'm pulling for the team to trade up and snag Julio Jones if he's still there in the late teens. Outside of him and Green I don't see a first round worthy prospect anyway, except possibly Baldwin in the 30's, which I would say is a little high for him anyway.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1298512313' post='644509']
I guess loyalty is a valid arguement, and a lot of it depends on the number of 3 or 4 WR sets we run, because if we run them predominately Mase will still get his snaps.

I do agree that a younger WR will take care of our WR issue for years to come, all I'm saying is that it isn't as pressing of a need as people say it is. Having a WR for years to come is a very very valuable thing, but not a very pressing need.
I just don't think people should be trippin bout the WR position like some have been, especially with having youth at it because although it is helpful I wouldnt call it necessary.

Either way I'm pulling for the team to trade up and snag Julio Jones if he's still there in the late teens. Outside of him and Green I don't see a first round worthy prospect anyway, except possibly Baldwin in the 30's, which I would say is a little high for him anyway.
[/quote]

True. We'll have to hope 3 and 4 WR sets are common. In the same vein though, I think most would like to see Dickson and Pitta get more opportunities so not everyone will be happy.

But how it isn't it youth at the WR position necessary or a need when the current #2 is 37 and doesn't much separation and the only player behind him hasn't caught a pass?

The vast majority of the league has at least one WR under 28 who factors into their long-term plans. The Ravens don't. To me, that would suggest a need.

May I as why you don't view Baldin as being worth taking with the 26th pick?

[gabefergy]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1298512313' post='644509']
I guess loyalty is a valid arguement, and a lot of it depends on the number of 3 or 4 WR sets we run, because if we run them predominately Mase will still get his snaps.

I do agree that a younger WR will take care of our WR issue for years to come, all I'm saying is that it isn't as pressing of a need as people say it is. Having a WR for years to come is a very very valuable thing, but not a very pressing need.
I just don't think people should be trippin bout the WR position like some have been, especially with having youth at it because although it is helpful I wouldnt call it necessary.

Either way I'm pulling for the team to trade up and snag Julio Jones if he's still there in the late teens. Outside of him and Green I don't see a first round worthy prospect anyway, except possibly Baldwin in the 30's, which I would say is a little high for him anyway.
[/quote]

I'm not sure Julio Jones is the answer at WR, especially if it means having to trade up. I like him as a player, but he doesnt have excellent speed or separation skills. Of course he might become a stud, but I would rather see us take a WR in the 2nd or 3rd round. The Ravens severely lacked speed on offense last season and it needs to be addressed. Unfortunately WR talent is not very deep in this year's draft.

[ed.s52]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1298512967' post='644515']
True. We'll have to hope 3 and 4 WR sets are common. In the same vein though, I think most would like to see Dickson and Pitta get more opportunities so not everyone will be happy.

But how it isn't it youth at the WR position necessary or a need when the current #2 is 37 and doesn't much separation and the only player behind him hasn't caught a pass?

The vast majority of the league has at least one WR under 28 who factors into their long-term plans. The Ravens don't. To me, that would suggest a need.

May I as why you don't view Baldin as being worth taking with the 26th pick?
[/quote]

That is true about Diskson or Pitta, especially if Heap can stay healthy yet again. Perhaps Pitta or Dickson will convert to reciever and be that young gun for the future. I know its crazy just a thought.


I already voiced that I wanted a replacement for that 37 year old #2, which could be in the form of a vet or a rook.


Although saying these two fit your criteria may be a stretch, we do have David Reed and Hardy.


As for Baldwin, I think he's good but a little raw. People say he was underutilized at Pitt, which is true, but that doesn't mean if he was given more throws they would match the quality of what he did with those 50 receptions he got. If my grade was just in the redzone I'd rank him higher, but not all football is played inside the 20's, but there is no doubt his size (6'5) and vertical (40 in) are impressive. His top end speed is good but not great.

Positives:
-Size
-Great ability to high point the ball
-hands
-body control

Negatives:
-Quickness
-Route Running
-character issues
-separation

To elaborate on those negatives, he did throw his coaches under the bus for his production, which they are partly deserving of but nonetheless isn't respectful. He said they purposely tried to lower his draft stock, which to me strikes a red flag. In that regard, and actually somewhat in his measureables as well, reminds me a bit too much of TO.

Although he does fill the need of a deep threat, quickness and routerunning are very important traits for recievers, especially on downs like 3rd and 5.


Don't get me wrong, I really like this kid as a prospect and think he will be a good NFL player, but there will be better players on the board at 26, unless every team has the perfect draft. In that case I wouldn't be so opposed to taking him, I just really doubt he will be the BPA. But, presonally, I would expect the ideal place for him to go would be in the top of the second or bottom of the 1st.

My opinion is a lot of Ravens fans drool over him just because they want a deep threat which we haven't had in past years. That is also my opinion of Torrey Smith as well, who I definitely do not see breaking into the first round unless he has an unbelievable combine or someone reaches.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1298514988' post='644536']
Although saying these two fit your criteria may be a stretch, we do have David Reed and Hardy.

As for Baldwin, I think he's good but a little raw. People say he was underutilized at Pitt, which is true, but that doesn't mean if he was given more throws they would match the quality of what he did with those 50 receptions he got. If my grade was just in the redzone I'd rank him higher, but not all football is played inside the 20's, but there is no doubt his size (6'5) and vertical (40 in) are impressive. His top end speed is good but not great.

Positives:
-Size
-Great ability to high point the ball
-hands

Negatives:
-Quickness
-Route Running
-body control
-character issues
-work ethic

To elaborate on those negatives, he did throw his coaches under the bus for his production, which they are partly deserving of but nonetheless isn't respectful. He said they purposely tried to lower his draft stock, which to me strikes a red flag. In that regard, and actually somewhat in his measureables as well, reminds me a bit too much of TO.

Although he does fill the need of a deep threat, quickness and routerunning are very important traits for recievers, especially on downs like 3rd and 5.

Don't get me wrong, I really like this kid as a prospect and think he will be a good NFL player, but there will be better players on the board at 26, unless every team has the perfect draft. In that case I wouldn't be so opposed to taking him, I just really doubt he will be the BPA. But, presonally, I would expect the ideal place for him to go would be in the top of the second or bottom of the 1st.

My opinion is a lot of Ravens fans drool over him just because they want a deep threat which we haven't had in past years. That is also my opinion of Torrey Smith as well, who I definitely do not see breaking into the first round unless he has an unbelievable combine or someone reaches.
[/quote]

I feel Reed can do big things. I'm not too optimistic regarding Hardy though.

With Baldwin, you have his body control as a weakness? Could you elaborate on that because everything I've seen from him suggests he has great body control.

With his work ethic, two people in this article people claim he's a hard worker. [url="http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_723497.html"]Link[/url]

His comments were unnecessary and his groping charge certainly gives you pause but to me, his positives outweigh the negatives.

Quickness and precise route running are important skills for a WR but most WRs comparable to Baldwin in size aren't known for those attributes either but are still succeed.

[ed.s52]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1298517259' post='644556']
I feel Reed can do big things. I'm not too optimistic regarding Hardy though.

With Baldwin, you have his body control as a weakness? Could you elaborate on that because everything I've seen from him suggests he has great body control.

With his work ethic, two people in this article people claim he's a hard worker. [url="http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/s_723497.html"]Link[/url]

His comments were unnecessary and his groping charge certainly gives you pause but to me, his positives outweigh the negatives.

Quickness and precise route running are important skills for a WR but most WRs comparable to Baldwin in size aren't known for those attributes either but are still succeed.
[/quote]


Eh, Hardy is boom or bust, most likely bust but the chance at a boom is worth mentioning imo.


That was an accident. I switched between web pages and thought I wrote it under positives, although his elusiveness I've heard isn't his strong suit, which in a way can count as body control.

I re-researched it and I've seen a lot of conflicting reports about his work ethic. I don't know what to say, because many sources are very conflicted on that one.

He is a good player, I just really doubt there won't be better talent on the board.


That is true, but both of those are problems which take away from his separation. I'd rather have a shorter reciever that can get away from a corner than a tall one that will have to take a jump ball every time. On the highlight reel I watched of him (on both actually) the majority of his big plays were jump balls of just awfull ball skills by the corner allowing JB to catch it. I saw maybe 2 plays where he had legit separation and it was obvious both of those were miscommunications in zone coverages by the defense.

Even on fades, the initial burst is very important to get past the corner, which JB could work on.

[ml63440]

When did Donte Stallworth become this reliable receiver everyone is talking about? I remember a fast guy being drafted in like 03 by the Saints who could yes get down field but just as often dropped the passes thrown his way. His best season was when he was traded to Philly and exploded the first few games but then got injured for a large portion of the season, and the eagles just let him go. He then became a number 3 in NE, but let me know if am mistaken, he wasn't the primary deep threat, and he was behind 2 pro bowl receivers and had Brady throwing to him. Then once again, released by NE to be the deep threat next to an already deep threat in Braylon Edwards. And that again didn't work out. Then we signed him after he was suspended for a season to compete with Mark Clayton, but we signed him to the vet minimum. Yes he broke his foot which threw him off track, but do you really think he would have been a much better deep threat than Clayton? I am not saying i don't want him back, but i don't really think he is all that reliable, especially with Mason being 37 and injury prone the past few seasons. Not to mention he is also in his thirties. We need youth at the position, and first or second rd should definitely be a WR. Someone who can come in and develop behind Boldin, Mase, and possibly Stallworth. Getting a young guy who doesn't need to contribute heavily from day one, but being able to break them in over a year or two.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1298518216' post='644563']
Eh, Hardy is boom or bust, most likely bust but the chance at a boom is worth mentioning imo.

That was an accident. I switched between web pages and thought I wrote it under positives, although his elusiveness I've heard isn't his strong suit, which in a way can count as body control.

I re-researched it and I've seen a lot of conflicting reports about his work ethic. I don't know what to say, because many sources are very conflicted on that one.

He is a good player, I just really doubt there won't be better talent on the board.

That is true, but both of those are problems which take away from his separation. I'd rather have a shorter reciever that can get away from a corner than a tall one that will have to take a jump ball every time. On the highlight reel I watched of him (on both actually) the majority of his big plays were jump balls of just awfull ball skills by the corner allowing JB to catch it. I saw maybe 2 plays where he had legit separation and it was obvious both of those were miscommunications in zone coverages by the defense.

Even on fades, the initial burst is very important to get past the corner, which JB could work on.
[/quote]

You're right about his lack of elusiveness. He makes up for it with all leaping and diving grabs though.

Whether there will be better talent still on the board depends on how the organization has it's big board set up. Ideally, I'd like to see the Ravens draft Jordan or Aldon Smith but I'm unsure if they'll be available.

Yes, separation will likely be an issue for Baldwin in the pros but again, WRs with similar skill-sets to him have found a way to succeed in the pros, and I believe he can do the same.

[ed.s52]

[quote name='ml63440' timestamp='1298519536' post='644575']
When did Donte Stallworth become this reliable receiver everyone is talking about? I remember a fast guy being drafted in like 03 by the Saints who could yes get down field but just as often dropped the passes thrown his way. His best season was when he was traded to Philly and exploded the first few games but then got injured for a large portion of the season, and the eagles just let him go. He then became a number 3 in NE, but let me know if am mistaken, he wasn't the primary deep threat, and he was behind 2 pro bowl receivers and had Brady throwing to him. Then once again, released by NE to be the deep threat next to an already deep threat in Braylon Edwards. And that again didn't work out. Then we signed him after he was suspended for a season to compete with Mark Clayton, but we signed him to the vet minimum. Yes he broke his foot which threw him off track, but do you really think he would have been a much better deep threat than Clayton? I am not saying i don't want him back, but i don't really think he is all that reliable, especially with Mason being 37 and injury prone the past few seasons. Not to mention he is also in his thirties. We need youth at the position, and first or second rd should definitely be a WR. Someone who can come in and develop behind Boldin, Mase, and possibly Stallworth. Getting a young guy who doesn't need to contribute heavily from day one, but being able to break them in over a year or two.
[/quote]

Stallworth may not have the track record to prove he is a deep threat, but his speed speaks for itself.

We don't really know whats going to happen with Stalls, but lets hope he proves to be the deep threat he can be.

[ed.s52]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1298519599' post='644576']
You're right about his lack of elusiveness. He makes up for it with all leaping and diving grabs though.

Whether there will be better talent still on the board depends on how the organization has it's big board set up. Ideally, I'd like to see the Ravens draft Jordan or Aldon Smith but I'm unsure if they'll be available.

Yes, separation will likely be an issue for Baldwin in the pros but again, WRs with similar skill-sets to him have found a way to succeed in the pros, and I believe he can do the same.
[/quote]


Personally, outside trading up for Jones, the ideal situation outside if we are that intent on grabbing JB is to trade down to the 30-35 area.

There I would be really happy to grab him. I just hope we don't sacrifice a greater talent for him.


And although that is true about those who suceeded, there are plenty other with JB's skill set who have failed.

[Alexir]

If Baldwin has trouble getting separation, why waste first round pick and first round money on him when we can get a consistent player on defense?

[ml63440]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1298519845' post='644579']
Stallworth may not have the track record to prove he is a deep threat, but his speed speaks for itself.

We don't really know whats going to happen with Stalls, but lets hope he proves to be the deep threat he can be.
[/quote]


Has 8 seasons not been enough time to prove this though? Don't get me wrong he has had some pretty productive seasons earlier on in his career with the Saints, but i don't really see him being more than a 20 receptions 350 yards kinda guy. I would like to be wrong, but lets face it, he is over 30, inconsistent, and cant run all the routes. We need youth. I wouldn't mind signing him to a low contract again though, i really want to see us groom a young WO out of this years draft that doesn't have to contribute right away.

[ed.s52]

[quote name='ml63440' timestamp='1298520835' post='644585']
Has 8 seasons not been enough time to prove this though? Don't get me wrong he has had some pretty productive seasons earlier on in his career with the Saints, but i don't really see him being more than a 20 receptions 350 yards kinda guy. I would like to be wrong, but lets face it, he is over 30, inconsistent, and cant run all the routes. We need youth. I wouldn't mind signing him to a low contract again though, i really want to see us groom a young WO out of this years draft that doesn't have to contribute right away.
[/quote]

Well that includes his injuries and his suspension/conviction.

Even if he doesn't rack up that many stats, as longs as he can be a deep threat I'd be happy. This season he got 2 catches for 82 yards. If anything that says that he [u]can[/u] be a deep threat. He had one of 67 and another of 15.

[ml63440]

[quote name='ed.s52' timestamp='1298521511' post='644589']
Well that includes his injuries and his suspension/conviction.

Even if he doesn't rack up that many stats, as longs as he can be a deep threat I'd be happy. This season he got 2 catches for 82 yards. If anything that says that he [u]can[/u] be a deep threat. He had one of 67 and another of 15.
[/quote]


I agree that he can still stretch the defense, just coming down with it probably isn't going to happen as much as people would like. But Having him just running deep once in a while still opens things up. That's why i said i would have no problem signing him to another small contract for that reason. He just isn't going to be the reliable deep threat everyone always assumes he will be. I would love to be wrong though, but i don't think i will me

[ed.s52]

[quote name='ml63440' timestamp='1298521936' post='644591']
I agree that he can still stretch the defense, just coming down with it probably isn't going to happen as much as people would like. But Having him just running deep once in a while still opens things up. That's why i said i would have no problem signing him to another small contract for that reason. He just isn't going to be the reliable deep threat everyone always assumes he will be. I would love to be wrong though, but i don't think i will me
[/quote]


As much as Stalls hasn't proven he can be a deep threat, he also hasn't proven he can't be one. Stretching the field is mostly what we need but it is possible he can be a beast down the field.

[DevilsLuck]

If we don't sign Wilson again I would say draft a CB in the first but if we did sign Wilson again then I would say Sign an Inside Linebacker to compliment Ray Ray. Just my thoughts on this.