No T-sizzle In Training Camp!

[Raven07]

i see it as no reason to get concerned as of just yet, i think that with Suggs absent from practice and training camp right now, it also Allows the Team offical's and coaches, to get more of an in depth look into the younger athletes trying to make the team. With Suggs absence Apparent to the Ravens, the Team is eager to find out the Athletic Ability, work ethic and drive to succeed, the Team has in its younger Draftee's or players brought in.

Dont take this Absences from Training Camp as an excuse for Suggs not having to work out or Train, because thats not true, even though He may not be at "Ravens Training Camp" doesnt mean that he isnt Training, and working out at Home or wherever he may be at. Knowing Suggs, he wont let that type of thing Happen to him, because once he does come back, he will have expectations of himself as well as the Team's expectations to be the athletic ability he's known for.

But seeing how, This is an age of "Living in the Now" the Ravens are substituting the younger Players into Sugg's Position and role, and evaulating the progress and how well they may perform or how well they can adapt.

[Redreed]

At this point I would have to say yes. We could get a 1st round draft pick for him and I'm still hoping for the Suggs to Arizona for Boldin of Fitzgerald trade. All-in-all I would hate to see him go, but we don't need big egos on this team who think they are above everything. It hurts the team and this city.

OMG I would die for a Suggs/Boldin deal. I don't think they'd trade Fitzgerald because they just resigned him to a huge deal. I Know that a Boldin deal is almost just as unlikely, but man would that be exciting.

[Marc2k6]

You've misunderstood, or you skipped to the end of the thread, my friend.

Sack leader or not, this guy is moaning about his salary and contract while he makes over 8 million dollars and holds out of camp. We don't need Suggs. We don't need his 5 sacks. That's where the sacks come into play; if this was 03, and he had just dropped 12.5 sacks and wanted more money I'd be suggesting that we pay the man what he wants, and whatever he wants. But it's not. It's 08, we were 5-11 last year, he had 5 sacks, and now he wants more money and is a no show at camp. You really want this guy on our team? We are building something here. If he doesn't want to be a part of it, well then, I don't want him to be a part of it either.

I AGREE!

Remember in '06 we outscored ****tsburg 58-7 over the 2 games? Those were the best days of my life.

Steeler fans have a very short memory! They have forgot all about that and the fact that we are 4-2 in the last 6 games vs. the Steeler's

[BloodRaven]

OMG I would die for a Suggs/Boldin deal. I don't think they'd trade Fitzgerald because they just resigned him to a huge deal. I Know that a Boldin deal is almost just as unlikely, but man would that be exciting.

I dont know, Boldin is a great player but he misses about 6 games a year.

[Redreed]

I dont know, Boldin is a great player but he misses about 6 games a year.

He missed 5 games in 2004 and 4 games last year. Started all 16 every other year (since 2003).

[Redreed]

Remember in '06 we outscored ****tsburg 58-7 over the 2 games? Those were the best days of my life.

Doing a little profile divin', eh? You like that, don't you? LOL. Seriously though, they were

I know we've been playing them tough. But until we embarrass them badly on national TV, like they did to us last year, I can't live off the '06 season. I want more! I want Squeeler blood! I want Wurthlessburger down for the count!

[Ravenoid]

Without someone on the other side to rush the QB Suggs can be double teamed and chipped by the back. You can see better play in Suggs when Trevor Price is healthy, which he hasn't been lately. Suggs isn't a superstar and I do think 8 million is too much to give him. Suggs is a good player but not worth what he thinks.

I say let him sit out & don't pay him; let him seek a trade for himself then we'll all learn what his market value realy is.

[FerrariFan87]

At this point I would have to say yes. We could get a 1st round draft pick for him and I'm still hoping for the Suggs to Arizona for Boldin of Fitzgerald trade. All-in-all I would hate to see him go, but we don't need big egos on this team who think they are above everything. It hurts the team and this city.

Boldin is the more likely candidate if anything of that sort were to go down. The main reason being that he just came out and said he will play out his current deal and play elsewhere after 2010...

[Redreed]

Guys!! Guys!! Look!!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story;jsessionid=C...mp;confirm=true

Boldin is saying he doesn't want a new deal in Arizona.

Come on Ozzie!!! Make a Suggs/Boldin deal happen!

[dlavin]

Guys!! Guys!! Look!!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story;jsessionid=C...mp;confirm=true

Boldin is saying he doesn't want a new deal in Arizona.

Come on Ozzie!!! Make a Suggs/Boldin deal happen!

Interesting I wonder what kind of deal he would want. If we were to trade suggs i would much rather get a proven player than draft picks.

[RavensIQ]

We all saw how the ravens Defense responded to poor pass rush last year. Given that Tryvor Pryce (32) may only be with us 1-2 maybe 3 more years, who else do we have besides Suggs that can get the job done at a high level? I know everyone is angry with t-sizzle but lets not forget how much we need him. Which in hindsight is the reason we are all upset with him.

Anquan Boldin is a BEAST, yeah, but so is sizzle. If we won't give Suggs the big deal he wants, what makes you think we would give Anquan the one he wants? Boldin does have the Ravens style of play though...I'll give that to you, and yes we could always use another impact playmaker on offense, but that doesn't mean we give up one of best playmakers on Defense to make that happen.

Suggs and Boldin came into the league at the same time, they both have made obvious contributions to their teams, but Suggs is still 2 years younger than Boldin. Suggs was an OLB that got switched to a more prime role at DE over the last 2 years. It's still gonna take him time to fully master the position. Put Boldin at TE and see if he can handle blocking and the physical grind as well as he did with the WR position.

Ngata was drafted in 06' and is only 24, Suggs is only 25, Barnes is 23, Tavares Gooden is 23, reed is "29", Dawan Landry is 25, Bart Scott is 27, Fabian Washington is 25, Nakamura is 22 and Zbikowski is 23. This is our future defense. Why would Ozzie want to give away one of the main pieces to our future, that he has been working on for so long and so hard to build for a wide receiver? There is a reason that Qbs, OT, and DE are the main core of players that go quick in the 1st rounds of the draft. Teams build their futures around them.

If we trade Suggs we will still have to replace him with a player in future drafts. And in order to draft a high caliber player that can come in and make an immediate impact like Suggs, we would have to use our high end 1st round draft picks. Wr's are a dime a dozen in the draft...Boildin was taken in the later part of the 2nd round...Which would be easier? Drafting a talented DE or Drafting a Talented Wr? So Leave all of your ambitious at the door when it comes to trading away superstars on our defense just because of contract speed bumps. Especially for an aging WR...

All it takes is a holdout of 1 training camp for you all to put one of our best players head on the chopping block? This isn't fantasy football get a grip.

[BloodRaven]

Anyone remember when the struggling Oakland Raiders brought in Randy Moss? and everyone thought he was the solution to their offensive problems?

[Redreed]

We all saw how the ravens Defense responded to poor pass rush last year. Given that Tryvor Pryce (32) may only be with us 1-2 maybe 3 more years, who else do we have besides Suggs that can get the job done at a high level? I know everyone is angry with t-sizzle but lets not forget how much we need him. Which in hindsight is the reason we are all upset with him.

Anquan Boldin is a BEAST, yeah, but so is sizzle. If we won't give Suggs the big deal he wants, what makes you think we would give Anquan the one he wants? Boldin does have the Ravens style of play though...I'll give that to you, and yes we could always use another impact playmaker on offense, but that doesn't mean we give up one of best playmakers on Defense to make that happen.

Suggs and Boldin came into the league at the same time, they both have made obvious contributions to their teams, but Suggs is still 2 years younger than Boldin. Suggs was an OLB that got switched to a more prime role at DE over the last 2 years. It's still gonna take him time to fully master the position. Put Boldin at TE and see if he can handle blocking and the physical grind as well as he did with the WR position.

Ngata was drafted in 06' and is only 24, Suggs is only 25, Barnes is 23, Tavares Gooden is 23, reed is "29", Dawan Landry is 25, Bart Scott is 27, Fabian Washington is 25, Nakamura is 22 and Zbikowski is 23. This is our future defense. Why would Ozzie want to give away one of the main pieces to our future, that he has been working on for so long and so hard to build for a wide receiver? There is a reason that Qbs, OT, and DE are the main core of players that go quick in the 1st rounds of the draft. Teams build their futures around them.

If we trade Suggs we will still have to replace him with a player in future drafts. And in order to draft a high caliber player that can come in and make an immediate impact like Suggs, we would have to use our high end 1st round draft picks. Wr's are a dime a dozen in the draft...Boildin was taken in the later part of the 2nd round...Which would be easier? Drafting a talented DE or Drafting a Talented Wr? So Leave all of your ambitious at the door when it comes to trading away superstars on our defense just because of contract speed bumps. Especially for an aging WR...

All it takes is a holdout of 1 training camp for you all to put one of our best players head on the chopping block? This isn't fantasy football get a grip.

I feel like either you haven't read the whole thread or just aren't sold on the main idea of it.

We don't want to trade Suggs because he''s holding out. We want to trade Suggs because he is acting like a child, and refusing to be a part of a new day here in Baltimore, over money, when he is grossly overpaid as it is. His attitude is unacceptable to me. And his play hasn't been much better lately.

I'd bet my last dollar Barnes will net us 5 sacks from Suggs spot this year, and he'll do it for 350k year, and he'll do it without moaning.

To compare the transition of Suggs moving from OLB to DE to Anquan moving from WR to TE is ridiculous. All Suggs did as an OLB was blitz anyways, back when he used to actually get sacks, remember? I won't address that any further. That isn't a fair comparison at all.

It's true that once you find a good DE you keep him. It's harder to find one than to keep one. I agree. It's wether or not Suggs is really that guy that I question. Once again, he hasn't had a double-digit sack season in over 4 years now. That's mediocre play from a guy who you pay 8 mil a year to. Plain and simple. And now he has the nerve to hold out. For a better deal? HAVE A BETTER SEASON. He didn't get a deal because he didn't convince anyone that he was worth the money he wanted, and now he's crying about. It's his attitude man, attitude.

Suggs is a guy who exploded into the NFL, flying around, making plays behind the line of scrimmage. But since his second year in Baltimore the only thing that has 'Sizzle'd is his stat-sheet --and I don't mean a hot sizzle, I mean that explosion has turned into nothing more than a simmering pan, claiming that if we threw alot more hot grease at it (millions of dollars) that it may burn again.

But, sadly, it won't. KG and Ngata get the double teams, not Suggs. Suggs gets his 1 on 1s or gets blocked by TEs and can only muster up 5 sacks. Meanwhile, everybody thinks he's this big-time playmaker who is crucial to our defense. I don't get it. I really don't.

I'd trade him for Boldin faster than you can say 'hold-out'.

[Redreed]

Anyone remember when the struggling Oakland Raiders brought in Randy Moss? and everyone thought he was the solution to their offensive problems?

And remember when the Pats brought in Randy Moss and he scored 22 TDs?

Totally different situation with us and Boldin. Totally different.

[RavensIQ]

We don't want to trade Suggs because he''s holding out. We want to trade Suggs because he is acting like a child, and refusing to be a part of a new day here in Baltimore, over money, when he is grossly overpaid as it is. His attitude is unacceptable to me. And his play hasn't been much better lately.

To compare the transition of Suggs moving from OLB to DE to Anquan moving from WR to TE is ridiculous. All Suggs did as an OLB was blitz anyways, back when he used to actually get sacks, remember? I won't address that any further. That isn't a fair comparison at all.

Your entire argument about Suggs is based on sacks, like that's the only thing the DE position is required to do. Suggs 6'3'' 260 lbs was doubled team by 6'7'' linemen weighing over 300+ lbs against virtually every team we played last year. His role isn't pure pass rush, he has other responsibilities like drop coverage, flats, staying home and protecting the "end" and it jus so happens that he puts his hand in the dirt and pass rushes as well. He is a special player because of his versatility and there are not to many players in the League that can do what Suggs does.

Ok, so he feels he is worth more than what the Ravens offered, but how do we know the Ravens didnt try to low ball him? what if they only agreed to pay him below his actual value? Sense your as knowledgeful as our GM and your so intuned with player psychologies please do explain to me the deal we tried to accomplish with him and why other players around the league such as iono Brian Urlacher and Devin Hester hold out too and act "childish"?? Millions of $$ are involved here.

But i do agree with you in being upset that he is holding out of training camp. But it is a business and this is a business tactic used by just about every player who wants a big deal. I just expected Suggs to take the Leader approach and put the team first, yeah he let me down but i dont wanna see him go. YOUR TRIPPIN'

And remember when the Pats brought in Randy Moss and he scored 22 TDs?

Totally different situation with us and Boldin. Totally different.

Yeah we dont have Tom Brady.

[Redreed]

I've loved Suggs, you know? I'm mad like you. Like Marc said, it's a fresh start for us this year, a new concept, and if he's not onboard then he should start looking for a ticket on another boat.

How many times a game does he not blitz or outside contain rush? Twice? Maybe 3 times depending on the game/opponent? How many times does he not line up in a 3 or 4 point stance (hand in the dirt)? Can you really make an argument that he isn't a primary pass rusher? The only reason his tackles have gone up is because of the outstanding play of KG and Ngata, who receive all the double teams now. Meanwhile, he may fight off a TEs block and make a tackle on a zone run play. While returning to the huddle he count's his 1.4 million dollars he makes per sack he gives us.

He is no more an OLB then Haloti is.

Let me ask you a question, when our guys line up 4 down, 3 roaming, and 4 DBs, where does Suggs line up?

When we line up 3 down, 3 roaming, and 5 DBs, where does Suggs line up?

When we line up 6 down, 2 roaming and 3 DBs, where does Suggs line up?

The answer to all 3 of these: On the end with his hand in the dirt. He is hardly the hybrid you make him out to be. He is no DeMarcus Ware type. He's not even the Shawn Merriman type. He's a blitzer. I can't believe you guys would suggest otherwise, honestly.

That's where the sacks come into play; if this was 03, and he had just dropped 12.5 sacks and wanted more money I'd be suggesting that we pay the man what he wants, and whatever he wants. But it's not. It's 08, we were 5-11 last year, he had 5 sacks, and now he wants more money and is a no show at camp. You really want this guy on our team? We are building something here. If he doesn't want to be a part of it, well then, I don't want him to be a part of it either.

My argument has been made over the course of the last 3 days. If you don't appreciate my point of view then that's okay, but I can't keep posting about this with you, I've already said it all.

Yeah we dont have Tom Brady.

I was moreso referring to the fact that we don't have Al Davis. Or Daunte Culpepper. Oakland is a graveyard for free agents. Sorry you din't get my reference.

[RavensIQ]

But your entire argument is flawed and is only backed up by the fact that you think your right. You think you know what an OLB does and how DE is suppose to play. Just because you argued it to death over 3 days does make you right my friend. Funny how Ozzie hasnt traded him to the cardinals yet. I guess we should fire him and hire you.

And yeah he puts his hand in the dirt but he also back pedals and drops into coverage from the dirt, thats part of Ryans complicated and confusing schemes. I guess the people who voted him into 2 Pro Bowls, or voted for his Defensive Rookie of The Year honors didn't know what they were talking about either. Just because he lines up in the dirt in a lot of formations doesn't mean the play requires him to stays there PERIOD.

Our Defense suffered numerous injuries lat year and obviously wasn't the same. We still managed to finish 6th overall against the rush...i guess suggs didnt have anything to do with that. When a car gets a flat tire and loses one of its 4 wheels does it still drive as well as B4? If a chain has a broken link does it still have the same strength? Our D lost 2 starting corners, 1 starting DE, MLB for 2 games reed was injured from time to time and we had rookies getting burned left and right. You take one peice out the rest comes crumbling down.

Ware, and Strahan, and the majority of the other sack leaders all had a dominating d-line and when all of the pieces were healthy and working properly sacks developed. Sacks aren't just because of one players great play, it takes the entire line to set up the opportunity for him to make that great play. Pryce injury impacted the entire Line across the board last year not just suggs...

[Redreed]

But your entire argument is flawed and is only backed up by the fact that you think your right. You think you know what an OLB does and how DE is suppose to play. Just because you argued it to death over 3 days does make you right my friend. Funny how Ozzie hasnt traded him to the cardinals yet. I guess we should fire him and hire you.

And yeah he puts his hand in the dirt but he also back pedals and drops into coverage from the dirt, thats part of Ryans complicated and confusing schemes. I guess the people who voted him into 2 Pro Bowls, or voted for his Defensive Rookie of The Year honors didn't know what they were talking about either. Just because he lines up in the dirt in a lot of formations doesn't mean the play requires him to stays there PERIOD.

Our Defense suffered numerous injuries lat year and obviously wasn't the same. We still managed to finish 6th overall against the rush...i guess suggs didnt have anything to do with that. When a car gets a flat tire and loses one of its 4 wheels does it still drive as well as B4? If a chain has a broken link does it still have the same strength? Our D lost 2 starting corners, 1 starting DE, MLB for 2 games reed was injured from time to time and we had rookies getting burned left and right. You take one peice out the rest comes crumbling down.

Ware, and Strahan, and the majority of the other sack leaders all had a dominating d-line and when all of the pieces were healthy and working properly sacks developed. Sacks aren't just because of one players great play, it takes the entire line to set up the opportunity for him to make that great play. Pryce injury impacted the entire Line across the board last year not just suggs...

Like I said, if you don't like my point of view, that's okay. I think we should trade Suggs for Boldin, I'm sorry that this seems to make you really upset.

Last post: I understand they move Suggs around after the snap. I've said on this and the other nearly identical Suggs thread 10 times. Check it out. But if a DEs main purpose isn't pass rush then I guess I don't know much about football, you're right. But even then, if Suggs is dropping back in coverages then why isn't he impacting the short pass game? Why isn't he getting his hands on balls, or better yet picking them off? If Suggs is this unique and versatile DE then why are his numbers dropping every year? Like I said, he exploded into the NFL, and totally deserved ROTY, and the Pro Bowl, but that was then. Sadly, he isn't putting up those numbers anymore. And our line IS dominant. They are the strength of our team, so it becomes even more confusing to me as to why he isn't getting the pressure he used to get. He is a good run stopper, but he has to be, because all the OLs we play against totally concentrate on collapsing the middle of our DL (which they still can't do ) or they try to run outside (which they still can't do ) which is where his containment really helps our team. I'm not saying he's awful. I'm saying he's replaceable. Especially at the price tag he's hanging on himself.

His attitude, his play, his stats, his heavy contract... to me; all totally replaceable.

You're attacking me, not my points. That isn't fair. We all get on forums because we want our opinions heard. We want to debate. We think we have a good point, or want to read others. I think you think that because I feel strongly about mine that I think I'm better than Ozzie, or you, or anyone, when you are the one who was telling me about how some people on here are dumb. let's leave this about Suggs not coming to camp. You're trolling me on multiple threads now. It's not cool.

[Redreed]

So the rest of you can skip the banter you don't want to read, I'll repost the last post addressed to the community and not to 1 other member...

Guys!! Guys!! Look!!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story;jsessionid=C...mp;confirm=true

Boldin is saying he doesn't want a new deal in Arizona.

Come on Ozzie!!! Make a Suggs/Boldin deal happen!

Would anyone else like to see this deal happen?

Got a better deal in mind?

[geo]

So the rest of you can skip the banter you don't want to read, I'll repost the last post addressed to the community and not to 1 other member...

Would anyone else like to see this deal happen?

Got a better deal in mind?

No.

[Ravens549]

T-sizzle...did he play last year?

He must have fallen into the hole Bart Scott was hiding in.

[b-morebrotha]

T-sizzle...did he play last year?

He must have fallen into the hole Bart Scott was hiding in.

He played all yr along with B scott

[Marc2k6]

He played all yr along with B scott

I think that was a joke about Suggs!