No T-sizzle In Training Camp!

[Marc2k6]

T. Suggs will not sign franchise tender or show up until after training camp. Instead he will work out with his own trainer. What message is this sending to the Raven's? What message should the Raven's send to him? With his choice not to show up for camp with a new coaching staff in place, he is not showing that he is onboard with the Raven's new team concept. What should we do? Understanding that he is due 8.whatever Mil this year and maybe with the salary cap this was not the year to re-sign him.

[alg52]

Trade him i say

[Redreed]

I would say trade him, but I don't think we'd get anything for him, no body really wants this guy. He hasn't had a 10 sack season in 4 years. His sacks have dropped every single year since he had 12 in his rookie campaign, besides the 2006 season, when everybody on the defense was playing great ball. I mean, the guy wants more than 8 mil? THEN WE WANT MORE THAN 5 SACKS, YA JERK!!

After writing this, I've changed my mind, dump him, get anybody we can. Let's get a new look to our outside speed rush, one that doesn't want almost 2 million dollars per sack a year.

[Marc2k6]

I say if you do not want to go along with the program "let the door hit you on your way out".

[RavensIQ]

As angry as i am with him i still wouldn't want to see him traded.(unless we get a ton of value (1st+2nd) He might not have been the #1 DE last year, maybe not even top 5, but still...he is definitely among the elite players at his position. He is still very young, he is a vet, he will only get better, and he has a long career a head of him. There is a ton of upside + lots of value in keeping him on our squad.

Thing is, i dont think he deserves the money he is asking for. I dont appreciate the fact that he is sitting out camp when he's getting 8 mill this year coming off a sub par season last year...Personally the more i read into i think this is just a way to avoid camp so he doesn't have to go through the 2-a-days.

Pisses me of yeah, and i think he needs to have some kind of punishment but the locker room takes care of itself. He'll have to answer to his teammates come 1st pre-season game.

[b-morebrotha]

Only trade him if there is a blockbuster deal out there. For now let him loose his spot to one of theses rookie or 2nd yr men then let him see how dumb he looks then

[Redreed]

As angry as i am with him i still wouldn't want to see him traded.(unless we get a ton of value (1st+2nd) He might not have been the #1 DE last year, maybe not even top 5, but still...he is definitely among the elite players at his position. He is still very young, he is a vet, he will only get better, and he has a long career a head of him. There is a ton of upside + lots of value in keeping him on our squad.

Thing is, i dont think he deserves the money he is asking for. I dont appreciate the fact that he is sitting out camp when he's getting 8 mill this year coming off a sub par season last year...Personally the more i read into i think this is just a way to avoid camp so he doesn't have to go through the 2-a-days.

Pisses me of yeah, and i think he needs to have some kind of punishment but the locker room takes care of itself. He'll have to answer to his teammates come 1st pre-season game.

I don't think that there is even the slightest chance of us trading him for a 1st, let alone a 1+2 package, that's big time. That's Reggie Wayne. This is T-Sizzle, of 6 year old fame.

I've loved Suggs, you know? I'm mad like you. Like Marc said, it's a fresh start for us this year, a new concept, and if he's not onboard then he should start looking for a ticket on another boat.

[Redreed]

Only trade him if there is a blockbuster deal out there. For now let him loose his spot to one of theses rookie or 2nd yr men then let him see how dumb he looks then

That'd be great for karma but bad for thew ballclub, we'd still have to pay him, and then he'd just opt for FA after the season and Rex isn't going to sit him no matter how great the young guys play because he is young too, and a vet, like dude mentioned. He's good. Just not as good as he thinks he is, apparently.

[GermanRavensFan]

I wouldn't trade him either! He has been important for our defense the last years.

If we let him go this or next year, or trade him, we need another very good player to replace him. I think we need him the nexty years, he will definitely develop into a star player and a leader. We have to think into the future.

I don't want to see our defense crumble in the next years. Imagine: Suggs would be gone. Then, in one or two years, Ray retires. Then Pryce, Rolle and McAlister, and Gregg is already 32 aswell. If tese players are gone we have to find new ones. We have to find leaders for the next years. We have to "restructure" our offense, so we should focus on develloping and finding players for our future team, not on releasing or trading them.

As much as I am disappointed about his behaviour, his disrespect against coaches, teammates and us fans. I think we should clearly keep him and try to get him on the right track again.

PS: 15 days to Pre-Season Kickoff :lol: :lol:

[dlavin]

I would say trade him, but I don't think we'd get anything for him, no body really wants this guy. He hasn't had a 10 sack season in 4 years. His sacks have dropped every single year since he had 12 in his rookie campaign, besides the 2006 season, when everybody on the defense was playing great ball. I mean, the guy wants more than 8 mil? THEN WE WANT MORE THAN 5 SACKS, YA JERK!!

After writing this, I've changed my mind, dump him, get anybody we can. Let's get a new look to our outside speed rush, one that doesn't want almost 2 million dollars per sack a year.

Yeah his sack total has dropped since his rookie year but his tackle total has basically tripled. His role in our defense has changed he is not just a pure pass rusher with his hand in the dirt anymore. His performance shouldn't be based just on his sack total.

[b-morebrotha]

That'd be great for karma but bad for thew ballclub, we'd still have to pay him, and then he'd just opt for FA after the season and Rex isn't going to sit him no matter how great the young guys play because he is young too, and a vet, like dude mentioned. He's good. Just not as good as he thinks he is, apparently.

Good point. Think he'll pull a dion branch or rodney harison

[foreversunny23]

it's an interesting dilemma. he's too good for us to trade him. the defense still needs him. but he hasn't shown enough that he deserves Dwight Freeney money. he needs a couple solid years to prove he is that good. i don't know why he's holding out on training camp. he has nothing to gain by doing so and doesn't make him look good at all...

[BaltimoreBulldog]

who we going to replace him with? I think we need to keep him this year unless we can get 2 1st rounders for him. If he produces well this year i think we give him a long term contract. There is no reason for him to hold out of training camp other than the fact he doesnt want to practice. He cant get a deal, they cant change the amount of the franchise tag. The only reason i can see him holding out is for something to be written in the Franchise tender saying they won't tag him again next year.

He will be on the field week 1 and if he is to rusty to play, then put someone else in. I think he will be ready week 1 to play and he will be starting. If you guys haven't noticed there are tons of players who do this every year and most of the time they want a promise that they wont be tagged again the following year or they just dont want to be at training camp.

[rayvenfan_52]

I doubt Suggs is worth 2 1st rounders. That would be like being a paper boy getting paid the same amount as someone whos been workin for a company for 7 years.

[Redreed]

Yeah his sack total has dropped since his rookie year but his tackle total has basically tripled. His role in our defense has changed he is not just a pure pass rusher with his hand in the dirt anymore. His performance shouldn't be based just on his sack total.

How many times a game does he not blitz or outside contain rush? Twice? Maybe 3 times depending on the game/opponent? How many times does he not line up in a 3 or 4 point stance (hand in the dirt)? Can you really make an argument that he isn't a primary pass rusher? The only reason his tackles have gone up is because of the outstanding play of KG and Ngata, who receive all the double teams now. Meanwhile, he may fight off a TEs block and make a tackle on a zone run play. While returning to the huddle he count's his 1.4 million dollars he makes per sack he gives us.

Good point. Think he'll pull a dion branch or rodney harison

No, I think he'll play better this year (they always do in contract years) and if we go 8-8 or better he'll resign, if we go 5-11 again he will leave.

I think we should trade him. No one will give up 1 1st round pick for him, let alone 2... He has been under performing, be it system at fault, his technique at fault, whichever. He's got a bad attitude all of a sudden and he hasn't been the playmaker we all thought he was going to be after his first 2 seasons with the Ravens (In which he was explosive and dangerous).

Am I the only one that thinks it's ridiculous for us to pay this guy 8. whatever for 5 sacks a year? And he has the nerve to complain?!?!

Ship him out. Sooner the better.

[Ravens_Pwn12]

Trade him i say

not a good idea

[FerrariFan87]

If we were to trade him, which I don't want, we need to get AT LEAST a 1st and 3rd Rounder, if not more....

[dlavin]

How many times a game does he not blitz or outside contain rush? Twice? Maybe 3 times depending on the game/opponent? How many times does he not line up in a 3 or 4 point stance (hand in the dirt)? Can you really make an argument that he isn't a primary pass rusher? The only reason his tackles have gone up is because of the outstanding play of KG and Ngata, who receive all the double teams now. Meanwhile, he may fight off a TEs block and make a tackle on a zone run play. While returning to the huddle he count's his 1.4 million dollars he makes per sack he gives us.

Yeah I think that you can make the argument that he was not used primarily as a pass rusher last yr. That's one of the reasons why the Raven's tried to slap the franchise tag of OLB not DE on him. It would have been nice to see the research if he did line up at DE more than 50% of the snaps but instead the hybrid DE/OLB position was made for the franchise tag.

[Redreed]

Yeah I think that you can make the argument that he was not used primarily as a pass rusher last yr. That's one of the reasons why the Raven's tried to slap the franchise tag of OLB not DE on him. It would have been nice to see the research if he did line up at DE more than 50% of the snaps but instead the hybrid DE/OLB position was made for the franchise tag.

You watched the games didn't you? Give me a break. He is no more an OLB then Haloti is.

Let me ask you a question, when our guys line up 4 down, 3 roaming, and 4 DBs, where does Suggs line up?

When we line up 3 down, 3 roaming, and 5 DBs, where does Suggs line up?

When we line up 6 down, 2 roaming and 3 DBs, where does Suggs line up?

The answer to all 3 of these: On the end with his hand in the dirt. He is hardly the hybrid you make him out to be. He is no DeMarcus Ware type. He's not even the Shawn Merriman type. He's a blitzer. I can't believe you guys would suggest otherwise, honestly.

Edit: The reason they tried to tag him as an OLB is to save money. T-Sizzle himself filed the grievance when they tagged him an OLB, arguing that he was a DE, so what does that tell you about what he considers his responsibility on D?

[Marc2k6]

T. Suggs is no D. Freeney 1st off and I think his sacks have gone down with him playing DE instead of OLB. JJ can get 5 sacks from his position! You are telling me that the RAVENS can not replace 5 sacks?

[FerrariFan87]

T. Suggs is no D. Freeney 1st off and I think his sacks have gone down with him playing DE instead of OLB. JJ can get 5 sacks from his position! You are telling me that the RAVENS can not replace 5 sacks?

In all fairness, it was clearly a down year for Suggs... If he is in shape and comes back to form, not to mention having a healthy Trevor Pryce on the other side, I fully expect Sizzle to be back with double-digit sack production.

[dlavin]

You watched the games didn't you? Give me a break. He is no more an OLB then Haloti is.

Let me ask you a question, when our guys line up 4 down, 3 roaming, and 4 DBs, where does Suggs line up?

When we line up 3 down, 3 roaming, and 5 DBs, where does Suggs line up?

When we line up 6 down, 2 roaming and 3 DBs, where does Suggs line up?

The answer to all 3 of these: On the end with his hand in the dirt. He is hardly the hybrid you make him out to be. He is no DeMarcus Ware type. He's not even the Shawn Merriman type. He's a blitzer. I can't believe you guys would suggest otherwise, honestly.

Edit: The reason they tried to tag him as an OLB is to save money. T-Sizzle himself filed the grievance when they tagged him an OLB, arguing that he was a DE, so what does that tell you about what he considers his responsibility on D?

I know the reason they wanted to tag his was bc of money but they would not have done that if there was no reason at all. He played a lot more OLB last yr than previous yrs. I mean he would drop back in coverage sometimes and you don't see Ngata ever doing that.

[BloodRaven]

^Agreed, he is not worth it. Shop him around, gauge interest from Miami, Arizona, Atlanta, all those teams have serious d-line/pass-rush needs and would give us a nice high 1st rounder.

What about Oakland and their amazingly lame pass-rush that wasnt adressed in the draft, you Al Davis would give us a 1st rounder and pay him a billion dollars.

[dlavin]

In all fairness, it was clearly a down year for Suggs... If he is in shape and comes back to form, not to mention having a healthy Trevor Pryce on the other side, I fully expect Sizzle to be back with double-digit sack production.

not only was it a down year for Suggs but the entire ravens defense. Everyone is criticizing him for only having 5 sacks but he was the individual Ravens sack leader.

[Redreed]

I know the reason they wanted to tag his was bc of money but they would not have done that if there was no reason at all. He played a lot more OLB last yr than previous yrs. I mean he would drop back in coverage sometimes and you don't see Ngata ever doing that.

My whole point in making that comparison was to humorously illustrate the dead serious point that I see them drop back in coverage about the same amount of times per game.

[Redreed]

not only was it a down year for Suggs but the entire ravens defense. Everyone is criticizing him for only having 5 sacks but he was the individual Ravens sack leader.

You've misunderstood, or you skipped to the end of the thread, my friend.

Sack leader or not, this guy is moaning about his salary and contract while he makes over 8 million dollars and holds out of camp. We don't need Suggs. We don't need his 5 sacks. That's where the sacks come into play; if this was 03, and he had just dropped 12.5 sacks and wanted more money I'd be suggesting that we pay the man what he wants, and whatever he wants. But it's not. It's 08, we were 5-11 last year, he had 5 sacks, and now he wants more money and is a no show at camp. You really want this guy on our team? We are building something here. If he doesn't want to be a part of it, well then, I don't want him to be a part of it either.

[alg52]

Imagine this... Trade Suggs for a 1st rounder and we get a high pick for this so we end up drafting Malcolm Jenkins and a chance to get Rey Maualuga or James Laurinaitis.

[b-morebrotha]

Imagine this... Trade Suggs for a 1st rounder and we get a high pick for this so we end up drafting Malcolm Jenkins and a chance to get Rey Maualuga or James Laurinaitis.

Imagine all three of them having crappy years or being injured and we traded away suggs to a team that turns out to have a great season and we get a pick thats close to ours anyway.

That would really suck wouldn't it

[MDmid14]

At this point I would have to say yes. We could get a 1st round draft pick for him and I'm still hoping for the Suggs to Arizona for Boldin of Fitzgerald trade. All-in-all I would hate to see him go, but we don't need big egos on this team who think they are above everything. It hurts the team and this city.

[Tonymontana45]

At this point I would have to say yes. We could get a 1st round draft pick for him and I'm still hoping for the Suggs to Arizona for Boldin of Fitzgerald trade. All-in-all I would hate to see him go, but we don't need big egos on this team who think they are above everything. It hurts the team and this city.

i like that outcome.... to bad its in a far away place