Trade Willis McGahee?

[dirtybird10]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1297279274' post='636640']
How many positions is that the case though?
[/quote]

Well after this past season not as much. I was more referring to last season. We had 4 vet recievers (3 virtual clones of each other). A pro Bowl Backup QB, 3 probowl running backs. That kind of depth you just don't see other teams holding onto. Plus we were constantly cutting and adding players jostling them around the roster spots, because they were at such a premium last season. It just seemed (to me at least) we were so worried about insurance polices that were adding roster spots and we never even used many of them.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='dirtybird10' timestamp='1297279508' post='636645']
Well after this past season not as much. I was more referring to last season. We had 4 vet recievers (3 virtual clones of each other). A pro Bowl Backup QB, 3 probowl running backs. That kind of depth you just don't see other teams holding onto. Plus we were constantly cutting and adding players jostling them around the roster spots, because they were at such a premium last season. It just seemed (to me at least) we were so worried about insurance polices that were adding roster spots and we never even used many of them.
[/quote]

The team added so much depth at WR because they were gearing up for a Super Bowl run. As for "holding onto" anyone, both the WR and RB corps could very well be different next season.

Pryce, Jones and Hamlin aside, who else was cut? Other roster moves you referred are common with every NFL team.

How the players were utilized is more on the coaching staff but having that much depth served the the ream relatively well.

[RL52TheGreatest]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1297278903' post='636636']
That might be the reason they overpay McClain for his FB/HB services and actually turn him into that hybrid RB. Then go out and sign a traditional blocking FB who can't catch at all, can barely run with the FB just likes blowing people up like Sam Gash used to.

Dude had some titanic blocks in that 2000 season.
[/quote]
Yeah, McClain is an average blocker at best and I think he would make a better change-of-pace back anyways. The only problem I see is: who's out there right now that we can pick up as a blocking FB?

[catty112]

From what Willis has said on the situation and how he handled it so far I would think that he would be willing to take a pay cut to stay but would do so if he would get a garunteed chance to contribute to the team.

Willis at 30 years old is a lot better than some of the other options out there. Cam just had no idea how to utilize him, he would strike gold every now and then with him but completely abandon his method. IE How many screen passes did Willis catch after the Miami game?

[McBurks]

As long as Willis takes a pay cut I'd be willing to keep him on the team.

[hawkprey]

Rather than complain he doesn't do enough for his money, why don't we actually use him? We wouldn't be overpaying him by much if we were using him to his potential.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='RL52TheGreatest' timestamp='1297281102' post='636668']
Yeah, McClain is an average blocker at best and I think he would make a better change-of-pace back anyways. The only problem I see is: who's out there right now that we can pick up as a blocking FB?
[/quote]
We do well at finding FBs though as a scouting staff. Sam Gash, Ovie Mughelli, McClain are all guys we've had blocking for our HBs that I can think of off the top of my head.

[edreedfromtheu]

I'd rather keep McGahee and trade Ray Rice.

1. McGahee is a better blocker than Rice. He's one of the best blocking RBs in the league. If the Ravens are insistent on proving Flacco is the guy, they probably want the best guy back there blocking for him.

2. No other team in the league will give up much in a trade, knowing the Ravens will "have to" get rid of him if he won't take a paycut. And the fact they haven't gotten to see much from McGahee recently because the Ravens simply don't use him.

3. Teams will probably over-pay for Rice, remembering last season, and completely forget that McGahee was actually on pace for 20+ touchdowns.

4. I believe McGahee is the better overall runner, and especially better in a single back set.

Ray Rice didn't "make" this team... this team "made" Ray Rice. The year he had a great season... ALL OF THE BACKS had a great season. Rice... McGahee... McClain.

This season, the line has been blamed for Flacco and Rice's stats. But far too often, when Rice got through the first line, he refused to cut outside. Especially in the first half of the season, he just seemed to be cutting back into the first defender he could find.

Do I believe Rice has as much success somehwere else as he had in his one great year here? Possibly... but he'd really have to land on the right team.

If the Ravens are trying to improve this team overall, I think trading Rice gets them a lot more value, and they don't really lose anything at the RB spot. By the time McGahee is "too old" they Ravens can find another cheap rookie RB in the draft. They are there every year.

This game is still a passing game, and until the Ravens can figure out that part... it's going to be rough trying to get to the Super Bowl.

And while looking for that answer to the passing game, this team still has to replenish the defense.

[dirtybird10]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1297280187' post='636655']
The team added so much depth at WR because they were gearing up for a Super Bowl run. As for "holding onto" anyone, both the WR and RB corps could very well be different next season.

Pryce, Jones and Hamlin aside, who else was cut? Other roster moves you referred are common with every NFL team.

How the players were utilized is more on the coaching staff but having that much depth served the the ream relatively well.
[/quote]

Yea just seemed to me we held on to so much quality depth, that we didnt even use. Like one of those horders you see on tv, who wont use or get rid of anything incase we need it. I just don't see that much quality depth on other teams, and sometimes I guess it becomes a problem, but many times that is when you see a rising star emerge. I am sure this season we will not have this issue, but it is also possible that we could keep most of our FA's which seems to me we would just be creating more of a log jam at certian positions.

[dirtybird10]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1297284202' post='636705']
I'd rather keep McGahee and trade Ray Rice.

1. McGahee is a better blocker than Rice. He's one of the best blocking RBs in the league. If the Ravens are insistent on proving Flacco is the guy, they probably want the best guy back there blocking for him.

2. No other team in the league will give up much in a trade, knowing the Ravens will "have to" get rid of him if he won't take a paycut. And the fact they haven't gotten to see much from McGahee recently because the Ravens simply don't use him.

3. Teams will probably over-pay for Rice, remembering last season, and completely forget that McGahee was actually on pace for 20+ touchdowns.

4. I believe McGahee is the better overall runner, and especially better in a single back set.

Ray Rice didn't "make" this team... this team "made" Ray Rice. The year he had a great season... ALL OF THE BACKS had a great season. Rice... McGahee... McClain.

This season, the line has been blamed for Flacco and Rice's stats. But far too often, when Rice got through the first line, he refused to cut outside. Especially in the first half of the season, he just seemed to be cutting back into the first defender he could find.

Do I believe Rice has as much success somehwere else as he had in his one great year here? Possibly... but he'd really have to land on the right team.

If the Ravens are trying to improve this team overall, I think trading Rice gets them a lot more value, and they don't really lose anything at the RB spot. By the time McGahee is "too old" they Ravens can find another cheap rookie RB in the draft. They are there every year.

This game is still a passing game, and until the Ravens can figure out that part... it's going to be rough trying to get to the Super Bowl.

And while looking for that answer to the passing game, this team still has to replenish the defense.
[/quote]

Huh? Rice had 2 good seasons, and no one had a good one this year. Willis is old, and Rice will be around for much longer than willis. If you kept him, you will be looking for a quality RB in 2-3 years.

[bauer77]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1297284202' post='636705']
I'd rather keep McGahee and trade Ray Rice.

1. McGahee is a better blocker than Rice. He's one of the best blocking RBs in the league. If the Ravens are insistent on proving Flacco is the guy, they probably want the best guy back there blocking for him.

2. No other team in the league will give up much in a trade, knowing the Ravens will "have to" get rid of him if he won't take a paycut. And the fact they haven't gotten to see much from McGahee recently because the Ravens simply don't use him.

3. Teams will probably over-pay for Rice, remembering last season, and completely forget that McGahee was actually on pace for 20+ touchdowns.

4. I believe McGahee is the better overall runner, and especially better in a single back set.

Ray Rice didn't "make" this team... this team "made" Ray Rice. The year he had a great season... ALL OF THE BACKS had a great season. Rice... McGahee... McClain.

This season, the line has been blamed for Flacco and Rice's stats. But far too often, when Rice got through the first line, he refused to cut outside. Especially in the first half of the season, he just seemed to be cutting back into the first defender he could find.

Do I believe Rice has as much success somehwere else as he had in his one great year here? Possibly... but he'd really have to land on the right team.

If the Ravens are trying to improve this team overall, I think trading Rice gets them a lot more value, and they don't really lose anything at the RB spot. By the time McGahee is "too old" they Ravens can find another cheap rookie RB in the draft. They are there every year.

This game is still a passing game, and until the Ravens can figure out that part... it's going to be rough trying to get to the Super Bowl.

And while looking for that answer to the passing game, this team still has to replenish the defense.
[/quote]


Hahahahaha. this guy is constantly wanting to get rid of all our starters. I'm surprised i didn't see a thing like in parenthesis up there to cut Flacco.

Rice had a career year his first year. Hes young and still got many years ahead of him. The only real reason Mcgahee almost had 20+ TD's was because he got mostly goal line carries. the only long run i remember is that one against Oakland with that crazy stiff arm.

I'm not saying i wanna get rid of McGahee, because he could still be a pro bowl type RB. But i dont think anyone would trade for him. And i believe ive heard numerous times that he likes his role on this team. If he likes it, i wouldnt see why he wouldnt take a pay cut.

The only problem i see with bringing McGahee back though is, I'm pretty sure McClain wont come back then. IMO i would want McClain over McGahee.

[RL52TheGreatest]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1297284177' post='636704']
We do well at finding FBs though as a scouting staff. Sam Gash, Ovie Mughelli, McClain are all guys we've had blocking for our HBs that I can think of off the top of my head.
[/quote]
True. We also had Lorenzo Neal, but I guess our scouting staff can't really take credit for that seeing as how he was already in his 17th (and last) season in the NFL as one of the best blocking FB's in the league.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='dirtybird10' timestamp='1297284876' post='636717']
Yea just seemed to me we held on to so much quality depth, that we didnt even use. Like one of those horders you see on tv, who wont use or get rid of anything incase we need it. I just don't see that much quality depth on other teams, and sometimes I guess it becomes a problem, but many times that is when you see a rising star emerge. I am sure this season we will not have this issue, but it is also possible that we could keep most of our FA's which seems to me we would just be creating more of a log jam at certian positions.
[/quote]

The only position there was arguably a logjam was WR. The team has already expressed they want to get younger at the position, so I don't anticipate Houshmandzadeh and Stallworth returning. They may even decide to cut ties with Mason.

The defense has needed an infusion of talented youth for a while now and Ngata aside, there aren't an priority free agents on that side of the ball.

[dirtybird10]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1297286761' post='636755']
The only position there was arguably a logjam was WR. The team has already expressed they want to get younger at the position, so I don't anticipate Houshmandzadeh and Stallworth returning. They may even decide to cut ties with Mason.

The defense has needed an infusion of talented youth for a while now and Ngata aside, there aren't an priority free agents on that side of the ball.
[/quote]

Our WR corp was certainly a logjam last year. I don't think it had to be, but the way we utilized our players it turned to be a disaster. I think that having 3 probowl WR's (all posession recievers) and 4 over the age of 30 plus the young guys, creates a real problem with getting the most out of your offense. I think Our runningback situation is somewhat similar. We have 3 probowlers, and it will be tough to keep them all, and impossible to keep them all happy. I would rather just see us go to a traditional FB who gets paid much less, and keep Mcclain as our bruiser #2 Rb.

[PuRock]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1297284202' post='636705']
I'd rather keep McGahee and trade Ray Rice.
[/quote]

You definitely love to go against the grain. If you were in charge, we'd have our team flipping every year. Why would you want to get rid of the young back?

[bauer77]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1297287406' post='636768']
You definitely love to go against the grain. If you were in charge, we'd have our team flipping every year. Why would you want to get rid of the young back?
[/quote]

Exactly what i was thinking. We'd have Troy Smith as our QB, Willis at RB, and who knows who else at other positions lol

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='dirtybird10' timestamp='1297287226' post='636765']
Our WR corp was certainly a logjam last year. I don't think it had to be, but the way we utilized our players it turned to be a disaster. I think that having 3 probowl WR's (all posession recievers) and 4 over the age of 30 plus the young guys, creates a real problem with getting the most out of your offense. I think Our runningback situation is somewhat similar. We have 3 probowlers, and it will be tough to keep them all, and impossible to keep them all happy. I would rather just see us go to a traditional FB who gets paid much less, and keep Mcclain as our bruiser #2 Rb.
[/quote]

Agreed for the most part. If Willis is willing to restructure his contract, I'd love to see him return. With McClain, while he's a good player, I think the team can find a better blocking FB.

[dirtybird10]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1297288333' post='636788']
Agreed for the most part. If Willis is willing to restructure his contract, I'd love to see him return. With McClain, while he's a good player, I think the team can find a better blocking FB.
[/quote]

Oh I agree, I honestly only want to see one or the other. I would prefer McClain, becuase he is young, and I like that bruising type running back he can be. I don't think McClain is that great of a FB at all when it comes to blocking. If Mcgahee comes back than I think we can say good bye to Mcclain.

[purple.n.black]

[quote name='MikeyBoy' timestamp='1297274719' post='636582']
This is my first time responding on this board. I am a die hard Ravens fan but I don't think trading Willis is the answer to our problems. We have many issues but in my opinion we have our biggest problem with Joe Flacco. Yes he is a good quarterback but he is not great. He does NOT have the intangibles it takes to make greatness. Yes given time in the pocket he can make accurate throws but that's also his biggest weakness. Opposing teams know that if they pressure Flacco he will make the big mistake and he has proven it now in almost every big game. As much as anyone I wanted Joe to be the guy but we have to be honest he is not. We can't base our future around him. AS an awesome back up QB Flacco is the man. The guy to take us to the Super Bowl and win it-Jos is not the guy. Instead of looking at the running game lets be honest and fix the one thing that needs consistency, dependability and passion! There are several QBs on the market including Vick and Peyton among others. Does anyone agree?
[/quote]
THe blocking for the running and passing game is the biggest problem. Trading Willis is the best option if we cannot restructure his deal.
As far as your comments, I will not get into how there is no logic in your statement but I will address the end. Those are two QBs that are getting up there in age. Not too old, yet, but there is a future of this team past 2014 or whenever. Manning is almost 35. And we all know he's not going anywhere. And it has already been said that the Eagles will at least tag Vick.

[PuRock]

[quote name='dirtybird10' timestamp='1297288484' post='636792']
Oh I agree, I honestly only want to see one or the other. I would prefer McClain, becuase he is young, and I like that bruising type running back he can be. I don't think McClain is that great of a FB at all when it comes to blocking. If Mcgahee comes back than I think we can say good bye to Mcclain.
[/quote]

I still stand by my opinion on McClain, that he's a bit overrated as a 'bruiser'. I see Ray Rice push piles forward more than I see McClain do it.

[63bru]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1297288333' post='636788']
Agreed for the most part. If Willis is willing to restructure his contract, I'd love to see him return. With McClain, while he's a good player, [b]I think the team can find a better blocking FB.[/b]
[/quote]
Mike Karney just became available the other day. He's a great blocker and would fit in well here.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='63bru' timestamp='1297290063' post='636822']
Mike Karney just became available the other day. He's a great blocker and would fit in well here.
[/quote]

He's a possibility. I'd prefer younger player but if Karney can get it done, I wouldn't mind seeing him here.

[Corvus]

[quote name='RL52TheGreatest' timestamp='1297281102' post='636668']
Yeah, McClain is an average blocker at best and I think he would make a better change-of-pace back anyways. The only problem I see is: who's out there right now that we can pick up as a blocking FB?
[/quote]

[quote name='Corvus' timestamp='1297264696' post='636450']
I support us picking up the soon to be released Mike Karney to lead block for Ray and Le'Ron. He's no Lo Neal, but he is a great blocking fullback with tons of experience.
[/quote]

[izvoodoo]

Yeah I want McLain to stay over McGahee and for us to draft a long term blocking fullback.

LT and Emit Smith both had great blocking fullbacks and that led to their career numbers. I would like the same for rice.

[MikeyBoy]

[quote name='purple.n.black' timestamp='1297288780' post='636798']
THe blocking for the running and passing game is the biggest problem. Trading Willis is the best option if we cannot restructure his deal.
As far as your comments, I will not get into how there is no logic in your statement but I will address the end. Those are two QBs that are getting up there in age. Not too old, yet, but there is a future of this team past 2014 or whenever. Manning is almost 35. And we all know he's not going anywhere. And it has already been said that the Eagles will at least tag Vick.
[/quote]

Maybe the Eagles will franchise Vick but it doesn't lessen our need to find the quarterback that can take our team by the reins and lead into the Super Bowl. In my opinion the old adage fits here-if it ain't broke don't fix it! Our running game is not broke. There is only one position that has time and again proven to be inconsistent at best. The one place where that hurts us the most. We can have an inconsistent runner with Willis, we can have an inconsistent secondary, we can have an inconsistent offensive line but we can't have an inconsistent QB. Joe is allowed to have a bad game but it's beyond that.

[berad]

[quote name='MikeyBoy' timestamp='1297296037' post='636905']
Maybe the Eagles will franchise Vick but it doesn't lessen our need to find the quarterback that can take our team by the reins and lead into the Super Bowl. In my opinion the old adage fits here-if it ain't broke don't fix it! Our running game is not broke. There is only one position that has time and again proven to be inconsistent at best. The one place where that hurts us the most. We can have an inconsistent runner with Willis, we can have an inconsistent secondary, we can have an inconsistent offensive line but we can't have an inconsistent QB. Joe is allowed to have a bad game but it's beyond that.
[/quote]

3.8 ypc for 25th in the NFL is pretty broken, to me. We were dreadful running the ball, relatively, this season. Saying otherwise is only kidding yourself.

You've been warned about posting off-topic things in on-going threads. Joe Flacco and Michael Vick have nothing to do with McGahee's situation. Besides, how many Super Bowls has Vick been to?

[MikeyBoy]

[quote name='Free Agent' timestamp='1297255140' post='636406']
While this may be a controversial idea, I think the team should trade Willis McGahee. I also think that instead of adding another "power" running back, the team should go after someone similar to Ray Rice, like Darren Sproles. Someone like Sproles could be used as the change of pace RB, and LeRon McClain could be used as the power/goal line RB, which would satisfy McClain. Thoughts?
[/quote]

Remember Willis didn't get close to the touches Ray Rice did so it's not surprising his production is low. I agree he is over paid for what he does on our team. The problem is this, Willis will be a starter on another team and I think we would come to regret trading him. I submit we keep him and do what great teams do -beef up the offensive line in the draft and run the ball with authority.

[MikeyBoy]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1297296271' post='636908']
3.8 ypc for 25th in the NFL is pretty broken, to me. We were dreadful running the ball, relatively, this season. Saying otherwise is only kidding yourself.

You've been warned about posting off-topic things in on-going threads. Joe Flacco and Michael Vick have nothing to do with McGahee's situation. Besides, how many Super Bowls has Vick been to?
[/quote]

Hey give me a break I'm just learning the ropes around here-sheesh!

[berad]

[quote name='MikeyBoy' timestamp='1297296671' post='636915']
Hey give me a break I'm just learning the ropes around here-sheesh!
[/quote]

It was already explained to you. I was being pretty nice.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='MikeyBoy' timestamp='1297296482' post='636912']
Remember Willis didn't get close to the touches Ray Rice did so it's not surprising his production is low. I agree he is over paid for what he does on our team. The problem is this, [b]Willis will be a starter on another team and I think we would come to regret trading him[/b]. I submit we keep him and do what great teams do -beef up the offensive line in the draft and run the ball with authority.
[/quote]

People say this but really, how many teams would start Willis?