Kruger Needs To Go Back To OLB

[Ngata Chance]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1296774534' post='631834']
Without question, but if you look back a couple posts to some numbers I posted of Kruger, he has neither straight line speed, lateral mobility, or change of direction speed. He has none of the major things "speed" categories in his favor. 34 OLB is an extremely athletic position, and if your not that athletic you better be able to stop the run like JJ does.
[/quote]


See what Fly wrote as the correct answer to this.

[Alexir]

Kruger is not an asset to this team. I think most of you like him because his last name reminds you of a childhood movie. He is not worth putting a lot of time into, the draft would do this team better. Let's move on. He was a bust, but provides average depth.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1296783534' post='631943']
I don't think that Kruger did so poorly last season as a role-player. Certainly, he has never become the starter that they had hoped for when the drafted him, but he has a high energy level off of the bench. I surely wouldn't think of trading him after he has made so much progress. Let's see where he fits in next year's scheme. [b]Kindle will not be back[/b], and unless we draft an impact rookie to replace him, Kruger isn't going anywhere.
[/quote]

The team has already expressed they want him back. What's uncertain right now is whether he'll be medically cleared or not.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1296785356' post='631963']
The team has already expressed they want him back. What's uncertain right now is whether he'll be medically cleared or not.
[/quote]
This.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1296785350' post='631962']<br />Kruger is not an asset to this team. I think most of you like him because his last name reminds you of a childhood movie. He is not worth putting a lot of time into, the draft would do this team better. Let's move on. He was a bust, but provides average depth.<br />[/quote]


how would anyone know he's a bust? He hasn't seen the field nearly enough (nearly none at all at his natural position) to say either way. Give him a shot at LB; after the way JJ played and with no one standing out at ILB, he's easily worth a look

[Guest RBates]

Kruger by far is our worst lineman. This kid needs a lot of tutelage under somebody. Kruger is a bust gentlemen, he could have easily split with Redding this year, but he couldn't even get on the field. Give me a break lets cut bait.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1296785965' post='631968']
Kruger by far is our worst lineman. This kid needs a lot of tutelage under somebody. Kruger is a bust gentlemen, he could have easily split with Redding this year, but he couldn't even get on the field. Give me a break [b]lets cut bait.[/b]
[/quote]

After two seasons? Glad you're not running the team.

[justifythegame]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1296766199' post='631726']
Some of you know that I'm a huge Kruger fan -- I thought landing him when we did was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

When our plans to bulk him up and move him to DE became known, I was a little skeptical, but thought 'well maybe..' and took the wait and see approach. If we were running a 4-3, this may have been a pretty good idea; I could see him developing into a Patrick Kerney kinda guy on the line out of a 4-3; but him playing as a 3-4 DE seemed a stretch, even if he packed on 20 lbs of beef.

After watching him intently this year, it's painfully obvious he's a fish out of water. Kruger is a guy that flourishes playing in space. His attributes (pursuit, intelligence, good first step, coverage skills, playing in space) make him ideal to play OLB where he can hunt down RBs, cover TEs and bring pressure off the edge.

What he ISN'T is a guy that can anchor and hold at the point of attack, or push back lineman to open holes for our LBs to make plays.

And now, with the Kindle situation and JJ looking like he's near the end of the road, we could use Kruger's skills more than ever.

If he remains at DE, he will be a bust, another wasted 2nd round pick by the front office. Fortunately, there is still time to salvage his career. We need to make this move now, before it is too late and he falls into a permanent rut of mediocrity.

Kid has all the talent in the world; we just need to start using it properly (seems to be a common theme around here lately, huh?).
[/quote]

Great post, i've been saying exactly what you've been saying after watching Kruger all year. The Ravens saw something in him when they thought he could move to a 3-4 end, but i actually think his skill set is great for a 3-4 OLB. I don't know if he could end up being a pro bowl caliber OLB, but you won't find out until you give him a chance to play, at the very least I think Kruger can be a very good situational/rotational OLB. He would be an upgrade over JJ in pass rushing situations and from what i've seen this guy has the instincts to be a LB. Why would we waste those talents and put him a DE? At DE, you want a big man who can eat up blocks or push around lineman. Even after Kruger gained weight, he was undersized and got dominated by OLman a lot, and didn't eat up blocks to help our LBs. If Kruger can get up to 290 he might have a better chance, but even then its no guarantee that he will learn to play DE/DT well, imo he is headed for the label of "bust" going that route. If he is playing OLB I think he can at the very least provide good depth if not become a starter. I'll never forget how he dropped into coverage and made that pick his rookie season.

[Big Sugar.]

I like to see him back at OLB because and i know some of you ain't gonna like this but JJ didnt do much this season he was the big disappointment this year in my opinion and i know some of it is matty's fault, but i would love to see kindle take over JJs place even kruger could be great and ellerbe should start with Ray next season at ILB.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Ngata Chance' timestamp='1296784661' post='631953']
See what Fly wrote as the correct answer to this.
[/quote]
He didn't exactly respond to it though, he said JJ and Kruger are on par with each other athletically, but Kruger doesn't stop the run like JJ has for 4 years in a row. Plus like I said we're wanting to upgrade the position athletically anyway.

[tweety]

I don't see how Kruger would be an upgrade over JJ in any aspect except age.

We need a DE, OLB, and ILB. We can try Kruger at OLB but I don't see him being an upgrade for any position. Kruger is a career back-up, get over it. It's just which position would he provide better depth at. No more pipe dreams we need a good defensive draft.

[flynismo]

[quote name='tweety' timestamp='1296839600' post='632170']<br />I don't see how Kruger would be an upgrade over JJ in any aspect except age.[/quote]

how do we know that? OLB is Kruger's natural position, and we have yet to see him play it.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1296841465' post='632198']
how do we know that? OLB is Kruger's natural position, and we have yet to see him play it.
[/quote]
Well actually his natural position would be 43 LE.

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='tweety' timestamp='1296839600' post='632170']
I don't see how Kruger would be an upgrade over JJ in any aspect except age.

We need a DE, OLB, and ILB. We can try Kruger at OLB but I don't see him being an upgrade for any position. Kruger is a career back-up, get over it. It's just which position would he provide better depth at. No more pipe dreams we need a good defensive draft.
[/quote]
As he is right now, Kruger is best suited to playing DE in a 4-3. Having said that, when JJ first came into the league we had him playing DT! It took JJ about 4 years to crack the starting lineup as an OLB. Nobody thought much about it since he was a late round pick. But since Kruger was a 2nd rounder everyone expects huge things from him early on.

Kruger might just be a late bloomer who needs a clear position on the defense to open up that he can assume. Right now he doesn't have a role. Even as a 3-4 DE he was only a backup behind Redding.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1296842147' post='632210']
As he is right now, Kruger is best suited to playing DE in a 4-3. Having said that, when JJ first came into the league we had him playing DT! It took JJ about 4 years to crack the starting lineup as an OLB. Nobody thought much about it since he was a late round pick. But since Kruger was a 2nd rounder everyone expects huge things from him early on.

Kruger might just be a late bloomer who needs a clear position on the defense to open up that he can assume. Right now he doesn't have a role. Even as a 3-4 DE he was only a backup behind Redding.
[/quote]
Which is certainly possible, but that is what goes with a 2nd round pick. A 2nd round pick should not be a 3 year developmental player before he can contribute. I think what too many people are ignoring is the fact we WANT to upgrade athletically at LOLB opposite Suggs. We need more athleticism in our front 7 if we are going to go the smaller speedy corner route, hell even if we wanted to go the Darrell Revis route we'd need somebody other than Suggs who can rush the passer. Kruger has a bull rush and an underwhelming rip move and he isn't particularly powerful with his bull rush so its almost useless at the NFL level.

[Shammy]

i dont see him ever being more than a good situational player not a starter tho not in a 3-4 at least

[justifythegame]

[quote name='Shammy' timestamp='1296846159' post='632249']
i dont see him ever being more than a good situational player not a starter tho not in a 3-4 at least
[/quote]
Its debatable whether he can replace JJ at OLB or not. But i think the biggest concern is salvage whats left of his career. If he is a career back-up, thats better than nothing. You win a SBs by having really good back-ups, guys who can make plays when the starters are getting rest or are injured. But if Kruger is getting all his snaps at DE, he is going to eventually get cut before his rookie contract expires. If the Ravens are willing to cut Trevor Pryce after leading our team in sacks last year, whats Kruger's excuse? Ravens defenses of the past had great players on the depth chart at LB, now we have career STs guys backing up our starters, we could use a 2nd round pick like Kruger on the depth chart.

[Rav'n Maniac]

Why is it that the Ravens always seem to find it difficult to game plan around the natural strengths of their players at their natural positions? Does every player have to be a hybrid? I can understand knowing multiple positions or being able to run deep routes as a possession receiver increases a players value but, when do you stop tinkering and begin using the god given talents they possess to the maximum?

[Shammy]

[quote name='Rav'n Maniac' timestamp='1296919297' post='632809']
Why is it that the Ravens always seem to find it difficult to game plan around the natural strengths of their players at their natural positions? Does every player have to be a hybrid? I can understand knowing multiple positions or being able to run deep routes as a possession receiver increases a players value but, when do you stop tinkering and begin using the god given talents they possess to the maximum?
[/quote]

exactly this season they should draft pure position players besides tryin to force someone to be what they want them to be

[justifythegame]

[quote name='Rav'n Maniac' timestamp='1296919297' post='632809']
Why is it that the Ravens always seem to find it difficult to game plan around the natural strengths of their players at their natural positions? Does every player have to be a hybrid? I can understand knowing multiple positions or being able to run deep routes as a possession receiver increases a players value but, when do you stop tinkering and begin using the god given talents they possess to the maximum?
[/quote]
You can also apply this to the likes of Jameel McClain - a natural pass rusher, who initially made the team because of his ability to get to the QB. He had potential, and now he play ILB - and terribly i might add. Its up to the DC to recognize these things and Mattison has been mediocre, we'll have to wait and see on the new guy.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='justifythegame' timestamp='1297099980' post='634767']
You can also apply this to the likes of Jameel McClain - a natural pass rusher, who initially made the team because of his ability to get to the QB. He had potential, and now he play ILB - and terribly i might add. Its up to the DC to recognize these things and Mattison has been mediocre, we'll have to wait and see on the new guy.
[/quote]

Speaking specifically to Jameel playing ILB, I won't put that entirely on Mattison.

The front office has drafted two ILBs since '08 but one can't stay healthy and isn't a good player period. The other is very poor in coverage. Going into '09, the team needed competition for Gooden and Jameel was the best player to do it on the roster. Had the coaches known Ellerbe would impress the way he did, McClain might have stayed at rush LB. But that's just speculation on my part.

[BloodRaven]

At the combine Kruger had an ok first step but heavy feet at 263lb posting slow 40 times, at the pro day he looked better but still had agility issues for his size and posted a best handheld time of 4.76. However, since his body has adjusted to carrying 275lb a 20lb drop could see him playing much faster much, like Suggs.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1297102261' post='634814']
At the combine Kruger had an ok first step but heavy feet at 263lb posting slow 40 times, at the pro day he looked better but still had agility issues for his size and posted a best handheld time of 4.76. However, since his body has adjusted to carrying 275lb a 20lb drop could see him playing much faster much, like Suggs.
[/quote]
Its not quite that simple though. Suggs was extremely explosive out of college and for his entire NFL career until he got fat in 09. Kruger never had that explosivenes, so him putting weight on and then taking it off isnt going to make Kruger more explosive off the line than he was before.

If you never had it, your not going to get it by cutting weight.

[justifythegame]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1297100936' post='634787']
Speaking specifically to Jameel playing ILB, I won't put that entirely on Mattison.

The front office has drafted two ILBs since '08 but one can't stay healthy and isn't a good player period. The other is very poor in coverage. Going into '09, the team needed competition for Gooden and Jameel was the best player to do it on the roster. Had the coaches known Ellerbe would impress the way he did, McClain might have stayed at rush LB. But that's just speculation on my part.
[/quote]
McClain was moved to ILB after Ellerbe started at ILB the previous season (at least for half a season). Why would a pass rush specialist have more potential at ILB compared to a 1 year veteran who had an impressive rookie season. I agree with the fact that Ellerbe is bad is coverage, i complained about that a ton that season, he has a lot of bad plays but at the same time he comes back with just as many good plays that make him worth the start. Ed Reed is very similar, he has a lot bad plays, but you would never bench him because his good plays are worth the risks he takes. I would take that than McClain's consistancy at being average to mediocre. Meanwhile we could've used McClain's talents at OLB in pass rushing situations last year.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='justifythegame' timestamp='1297124198' post='635203']
McClain was moved to ILB after Ellerbe started at ILB the previous season (at least for half a season). Why would a pass rush specialist have more potential at ILB compared to a 1 year veteran who had an impressive rookie season. I agree with the fact that Ellerbe is bad is coverage, i complained about that a ton that season, he has a lot of bad plays but at the same time he comes back with just as many good plays that make him worth the start. Ed Reed is very similar, he has a lot bad plays, but you would never bench him because his good plays are worth the risks he takes. I would take that than McClain's consistancy at being average to mediocre. Meanwhile we could've used McClain's talents at OLB in pass rushing situations last year.
[/quote]

I remember McClain being part of the ILB rotation early in '09 but I could be wrong.

Jason Phillips was the one I was referring to when I talked about a LB being poor in coverage. Ellerbe does have his fair share lapses though.

Regardless, I don't think the coaches [i]wanted[/i] McClain to start over Ellerbe but with the way Dannell supposedly showed up to training camp, the things we saw him do against the Rams in pre-season and the Falcons game, you can partially understand why he wasn't handed the job. He was in the dohouse far too long though.

[flynismo]

Sorry for digging up this old thread, but I thought of this after a heated debate with my Tom Brady worshipping neighbor.

Just wondering about the people who had doubts about Kruger -- now that he has been given more opportunities this year to show what he is made of, are you not excited to know that he will one day soon be taking over for JJ??

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1327118654' post='960800']
Sorry for digging up this old thread, but I thought of this after a heated debate with my Tom Brady worshipping neighbor.

Just wondering about the people who had doubts about Kruger -- now that he has been given more opportunities this year to show what he is made of, are you not excited to know that he will one day soon be taking over for JJ??
[/quote]

Raising old threads from the dead seems to be a common theme around here. But I'm glad Kruger is really showing promise under Pagano. If only similar changes could be made to the offense for next season.

[Jamal]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1327118654' post='960800']
Sorry for digging up this old thread, but I thought of this after a heated debate with my Tom Brady worshipping neighbor.

Just wondering about the people who had doubts about Kruger -- now that he has been given more opportunities this year to show what he is made of, are you not excited to know that he will one day soon be taking over for JJ??
[/quote]
If he is taking over for JJ, than I'm the opposite of excited. Hes perfect in role hes in right now.

Unless Kindle is still alive, the team still needs to draft an OLB who would take some of the attention off Suggs.

[Gordo52]

I like Kruger, where ever he plays I think he does good

[Ravenseconbeast]

Kruger = good, close, but never good enough to compliment Suggs. We'll need to find another pass rusher fast in FA next year. Umenyiora still tops the chart for Ravens imo.