Why Troy For Def MVP?!

[thewarden86]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1296527569' post='629766']
I meant more as a recognition for his defensive play. Polamalu/Matthews were 1st and 2nd and Harrison got 8 votes.
[/quote]

How many did Suggs get?

[True]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1296527595' post='629767']
How many did Suggs get?
[/quote]
None.

[b]EDIT:[/b]

Here are the votes (50)

Troy Polamalu - 17
Clay Matthews - 15
James Harrison - 8
Julius Peppers - 6
Brian Urlacher - 2
Ed Reed - 1
Haloti Ngata - 1

[flynismo]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1296527190' post='629756']<br />No you said,<br /><br /><br /><br />And I'm telling you he's changed more games than that and it's obviously not all about stats either. Well, at least not IMO. I wouldn't have been shocked or hurt if Clay Matthews got it. Heck, Troy only won by 2 votes, but he was voted in as DPoY and that's good enough for me.<br />[/quote]

I watch a lot of Steelers games...would you say I'm out of line by saying that Troy singlehandedly won three games for PIT this season? I think thats fair to say...and when one guy is directly responsible for 25% of a team's wins; well..........

[Bltravens]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1296526518' post='629742']
I don't think you guys miss Ed as much as we miss Troy. Ed's like the whip cream and cherry on top where as Troy is our ice cream.
[/quote]
lol I'll let it slide cuz the analogy was well played

[hawkprey]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1296527190' post='629756']
I'm telling you he's changed more games than that and it's obviously not all about stats either. Well, at least not IMO. I wouldn't have been shocked or hurt if Clay Matthews got it. Heck, Troy only won by 2 votes, but he was voted in as DPoY and that's good enough for me.
[/quote]

Okay, I see. But plays that are "game-changing" are represented by some sort of stat. In the Flacco case, it's a sack/forced fumble. In Cincinnati, it was 2 interceptions. Even in Buffalo (which you didn't mention) it was an INT at the end of the 4th quarter. In Tennessee, he had a tackle that was underappreciated (as in being listed as just one tackle) and an interception as well.

But those are all listed as stats. Now if you want to talk about game-changing plays, Ed has 3 multi-interception games and two of those games were down to the wire. He had 5 passes defended against the Bucs.

Now I understand there is some aspect to being a game-changer that doesn't involve statistical relevance, but I think all candidates (including Ed) have that ability as well. Think of Ngata being double-teamed all the time and only registering 5.5 sacks but still being in the discussion for DPOY.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1296527259' post='629758']
I can't believe Brian Urlacher got two votes...

Julius Peppers had more of an impact on the Bears defense IMO.

Suggs should have gotten those two.
[/quote]

Peppers was an animal.

Simply based on common statistics, you could argue Urlacher deserved some love. With what Sizzle did against the Falcons and Steelers in prime time though, I agree, he should have gotten those those votes.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1296527624' post='629768']
None.

[b]EDIT:[/b]

Here are the votes (50)

Troy Polamalu - 17
Clay Matthews - 15
James Harrison - 8
Julius Peppers - 6
Brian Urlacher - 2
Ed Reed - 1
Haloti Ngata - 1
[/quote]


Hmmm. I was surprised his numbers weren't better, but he did have 11 sacks. Yea, I would probably give him one or both of Urlachers votes.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1296527682' post='629769']
I watch a lot of Steelers games...would you say I'm out of line by saying that Troy singlehandedly won three games for PIT this season? I think thats fair to say...and when one guy is directly responsible for 25% of a team's wins; well..........
[/quote]

I think you know the answer to that Fly. Are you sure you meant to quote me? haha

[thewarden86]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1296527751' post='629771']<br>Okay, I see. <b>But plays that are "game-changing" are represented by some sort of stat.</b> In the Flacco case, it's a sack/forced fumble. In Cincinnati, it was 2 interceptions. Even in Buffalo (which you didn't mention) it was an INT at the end of the 4th quarter. In Tennessee, he had a tackle that was underappreciated (as in being listed as just one tackle) and an interception as well.<br><br>But those are all listed as stats. Now if you want to talk about game-changing plays, Ed has 3 multi-interception games and two of those games were down to the wire. He had 5 passes defended against the Bucs. Now I understand there is some aspect to being a game-changer that doesn't involve statistical relevance, but I think all candidates (including Ed) have that ability as well. Think of Ngata being double-teamed all the time and only registering 5.5 sacks but still being in the discussion for DPOY.<br>[/quote]

I'm going to argue you on that point and I warn you, I have great ammo: Ben Roethlisberger. Sometimes he has the stats, sometimes he doesn't. But you'd be hard pressed to argue that he's a game changer and a winner despite any numbers.

Yea, you can argue that he has more opportunities, but there again, you'd be arguing in my favor. If you need a stat to tell you the story, then look at the success of our opponents WR's. Since Troy began playing back, you haven't seen him because no one goes near him.

Wanna argue that Ray Rice bounced off of him and Troy missed another tackle or two? Go ahead, I know everyone has and I watched Clay Matthews get thrown down my his face by a blocker. haha. It all comes out in the wash.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1296527778' post='629774']
Hmmm. I was surprised his numbers weren't better, but he did have 11 sacks. Yea, I would probably give him one or both of Urlachers votes.
[/quote]

He was also 2nd in the league with 37 QB pressures(according to Football Outsiders) despite no consistent pass rusher to complement him.

The voters probably held Sizzle's comments about a certain QB against him.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1296527761' post='629772']
Peppers was an animal.

Simply based on common statistics, you could argue Urlacher deserved some love. With what Sizzle did against the Falcons and Steelers in prime time though, I agree, he should have gotten those those votes.
[/quote]
Ugh Urlacher is so over rated it makes me sick. Every time I watch a Bears game he's getting pushed around like he weighs 210 pounds. Hooray you can drop back 20 yards and play the Tampa 2, congratulations.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1296528218' post='629785']
Ugh Urlacher is so over rated it makes me sick. Every time I watch a Bears game he's getting pushed around like he weighs 210 pounds. Hooray you can drop back 20 yards and play the Tampa 2, congratulations.
[/quote]



In my opinion, Briggs has been the better LB for a while.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1296528199' post='629784']
He was also 2nd in the league with [b]37 QB pressures[/b](according to Football Outsiders) despite no consistent pass rusher to complement him.

The voters probably held Sizzle's comments about a certain QB against him.
[/quote]

Yea, but 30 of them were probably against us. haha

[Bltravens]

Thats it, time to Hijack this thread to the Brian Urlacher is over rated thread

[hawkprey]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1296528187' post='629783']
I'm going to argue you on that point and I warn you, I have great ammo: Ben Roethlisberger. Sometimes he has the stats, sometimes he doesn't. But you'd be hard pressed to argue that he's a game changer and a winner despite any numbers.

Yea, you can argue that he has more opportunities, but there again, you'd be arguing in my favor. If you need a stat to tell you the story, then look at the success of our opponents WR's. Since Troy began playing back, you haven't seen him because no one goes near him.

Wanna argue that Ray Rice bounced off of him and Troy missed another tackle or two? Go ahead, I know everyone has and I watched Clay Matthews get thrown down my his face by a blocker. haha. It all comes out in the wash.
[/quote]

I do think Ben was great this year and in another thread I said I think he should've gone to the Pro Bowl. But in Troy's case, I realize what he can to to QBs. I'm just going to say Ed does the same thing.

Ed wasn't perfect: he did give up a TD to Roddy White, but for DPOY I think Matthews still deserves the honor.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1296528388' post='629791']
Yea, but 30 of them were probably against us. haha
[/quote]

lol

He probably [i]did[/i] get a good amount of them against the Steelers.

[TSizzle00]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1296526361' post='629741']
You don't watch enough Steelers games. He changed the Atlanta game in week one and he was a HUGE impact in the Tennessee game in week 2. He also shut down Carson Palmer when we needed him to this year. He was quiet in the playoffs, but so was our opponents WR's.
[/quote]
Hes been quiet in the playoffs causes hes played more FS covering the middle for whatever reason and has not been at the line as much. On the flip side Ryan Clark has been all over the place.

[TSizzle00]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1296528218' post='629785']
Ugh Urlacher is so over rated it makes me sick. Every time I watch a Bears game he's getting pushed around like he weighs 210 pounds. Hooray you can drop back 20 yards and play the Tampa 2, congratulations.
[/quote]
Plus he is up and down and has been injured the last few years while Ray has been healthy and making plays despite being older than him.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1296528388' post='629791']
Yea, but 30 of them were probably against us. haha
[/quote]

You were also raving about Flozells pass protection.

Can't have it both ways homie

[TSizzle00]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1296526518' post='629742']
I don't think you guys miss Ed as much as we miss Troy. Ed's like the whip cream and cherry on top where as Troy is our ice cream.
[/quote]

Thats really undervaluing Harrison, Woodley, Timmons, Hampton, Aaron Smith, and Kesiel. All huge playmakers.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1296529058' post='629807']
You were also raving about Flozells pass protection.

Can't have it both ways homie
[/quote]

Suggs picked on our LT Homie. haha

And since you brought him up, I read that the O-Line wore his College Jersey down to Dallas. Still happy for that guy. I hope we get him a ring.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='TSizzle00' timestamp='1296529131' post='629809']
Thats really undervaluing Harrison, Woodley, Timmons, Hampton, Aaron Smith, and Kesiel. [b]All huge playmakers.[/b]
[/quote]

Definitely, but I can't you believe you haven't seen the stats with/without Troy. In just the last two seasons, the Steelers are 14-4 when Polamalu plays but 5-7 when he doesn't. The turnover difference is pretty big as well.

[TSizzle00]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1296529297' post='629814']
Definitely, but I can't you believe you haven't seen the stats with/without Troy. In just the last two seasons, the Steelers are 14-4 when Polamalu plays but 5-7 when he doesn't. The turnover difference is pretty big as well.
[/quote]

That stat is misleading especially last season. Troy miss alot of games last year but their ST also gave up 8-9 TDs returned which played alot in them losing so many games last year. Troy is good for closing the game out but they should be able to play defense without him. Unless of course the entire Steelers D is overrated

[thewarden86]

Oh c'mon,

How can you not love this humble beast?

[media]http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d81e08213/Polamalu-on-Defensive-Player-of-the-Year-win[/media]

[thewarden86]

[quote name='TSizzle00' timestamp='1296529771' post='629818']
That stat is misleading especially last season. Troy miss alot of games last year [b]but their ST also gave up 8-9 TDs [/b]returned which played alot in them losing so many games last year. Troy is good for closing the game out but they should be able to play defense without him. Unless of course the entire Steelers D is overrated
[/quote]

haha. Good point, but actually our ST's only gave up 4 TD's. We also missed FG's and we never lost a single game by more than 7 points.

We missed the playoffs. What do you think happens if Troy plays in all of those games?

[Alexir]

I just don't see it. CMJ should of won that award. It is a shame for him. Troy had a pro bowl season but in no means was he the Defensive Player of the Year. I would like to thank Oher and Flacco for single handedly giving him the award....

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jxbjl7EKtYo[/media]

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1296529158' post='629812']
Suggs picked on our LT Homie. haha
[/quote]

There was one play during the prime time game though where Suggs literally used Flozell as a power sled.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1296530028' post='629828']
I just don't see it. CMJ should of won that award. It is a shame for him. Troy had a pro bowl season but in no means was he the Defensive Player of the Year. [b]I would like to thank Oher and Flacco for single handedly giving him the award....[/b]



[/quote]

Please.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1296530100' post='629829']
There was one play during the prime time game though where Suggs literally used Flozell as a power sled.
[/quote]

I don't believe that. Spin out, maybe. Over Power? I just don't see it.

[BloodRaven]

I wish someone caught that stiffarm Rice put on James Farrior last season. That would have made a great sig gif.