Suggs, Ravens Can't Agree

[BloodRaven]

Its not going to be the strongest overall draft but it is for cant-miss players in key positions (ironically, positions which are going to be our biggest areas of need at the end of this season) Its a relatively weak draft for QBs, DTs and HBs (one year wonders not withstanding).

[alg52]

Imagine this... Trade Suggs for a 1st rounder and we get a high pick for this so we end up drafting Malcolm Jenkins and a chance to get Rey Maualuga or James Laurinaitis.

[Marc2k6]

Trade him.

[BloodRaven]

Imagine this... Trade Suggs for a 1st rounder and we get a high pick for this so we end up drafting Malcolm Jenkins and a chance to get Rey Maualuga or James Laurinaitis.

Agreed, if Suggs wants more money, let him go to the Cardinals and see how many sacks he gets in their stellar defensive system. And we get a chance at some big names.

[berad]

Why are we trading him?

He didn't show up to Training Camp?

Do any of you remember last season? With another very high-profile DE who skipped the majority of Training Camp but showed up a week before the season opener. Do any of you remember his 9 regular season sacks in 15 games and his dominating playoff performance, which helped lead his team to a SuperBowl victory? Yes, I'm referring to the gap-toothed Michael Strahan who did pretty much what Suggs is doing right now.

It's no biggie, wait it out and stop overreacting.

[Redreed]

Why are we trading him?

He didn't show up to Training Camp?

Do any of you remember last season? With another very high-profile DE who skipped the majority of Training Camp but showed up a week before the season opener. Do any of you remember his 9 regular season sacks in 15 games and his dominating playoff performance, which helped lead his team to a SuperBowl victory? Yes, I'm referring to the gap-toothed Michael Strahan who did pretty much what Suggs is doing right now.

It's no biggie, wait it out and stop overreacting.

The majority of the pro-trade posts I have read aren't really basing the idea to trade him off the fact that he is missing time, and assuming it will effect his play. I think the majority of pro-trade posts are so disappointed in his attitude, and how, while the rest of the guys get on board with a new program, he is sitting on his couch crying about 8. whatever million dollars. And in reality, perhaps the juice ain't worth the squeeze. He wants more money? For what? Another 5 sack season?

He is being a total child about everything, and to be honest, hasn't had a double digit sack season in 4 years. I say ship him out, see if we can't get a 1st rounder or Boldin for him. Boldin would help us alot more than Suggs would this year. In fact, plenty of other guys out there could help us more than Suggs will. Especially if he's going to be moaning all year. You know he's threatening (key word) to hold out until week 10? Why is all this happening again? Because he got tagged? C'mon. Ship him out.

[heapitup247]

The majority of the pro-trade posts I have read aren't really basing the idea to trade him off the fact that he is missing time, and assuming it will effect his play. I think the majority of pro-trade posts are so disappointed in his attitude, and how, while the rest of the guys get on board with a new program, he is sitting on his couch crying about 8. whatever million dollars. And in reality, perhaps the juice ain't worth the squeeze. He wants more money? For what? Another 5 sack season?

He is being a total child about everything, and to be honest, hasn't had a double digit sack season in 4 years. I say ship him out, see if we can't get a 1st rounder or Boldin for him. Boldin would help us alot more than Suggs would this year. In fact, plenty of other guys out there could help us more than Suggs will. Especially if he's going to be moaning all year. You know he's threatening (key word) to hold out until week 10? Why is all this happening again? Because he got tagged? C'mon. Ship him out.

Hes not going to hold out until week 10. That would hurt him and he would lose alot of his money anyways. He'll be here for the start of the regular season. He may even show up at some point in training camp. Terrell Suggs is a unique person in he can play DE and linebacker, and do both extremely well. No one in the league, or in college can do that as well as he can. Yeah he had 5 sacks, but watching the games i think he had his best season as a pro. I want nothing more than T Sizzle to go to camp, but trading him is just stupid. Hes a star and 1st round picks arent always great. Let this issue get resolved, sign him to a long term deal, and we can watch one of the best defensive players in the game play.

[Redreed]

Hes not going to hold out until week 10. That would hurt him and he would lose alot of his money anyways. He'll be here for the start of the regular season. He may even show up at some point in training camp. Terrell Suggs is a unique person in he can play DE and linebacker, and do both extremely well. No one in the league, or in college can do that as well as he can. Yeah he had 5 sacks, but watching the games i think he had his best season as a pro. I want nothing more than T Sizzle to go to camp, but trading him is just stupid. Hes a star and 1st round picks arent always great. Let this issue get resolved, sign him to a long term deal, and we can watch one of the best defensive players in the game play.

I pointed out that the key word in the holdout was threatened, because I agree he won't really do it. But, that just adds to my point of how childish and ridiculous his behavior is.

I don't want to sound rude, and we are all entitled to our own opinion, but I think it's quite laughable to call him the best DE/OLB hybrid. Shawne Merriman? Demarcus Ware? AD? Shawn Phillips? Say what you want, but all those guys had alot more sacks, AND all make alot more plays in coverage than Suggs does. In fact, when was the last time you saw Suggs make a play in coverage? It's really been astonishing to me to hear how many Ravens fans consider Suggs to be versatile. He pass rushes guys. Very rarely does he do anything besides pass rush. And when he does drop back into coverage he isn't batting balls or picking anything off. He's just out there because they told him to be out there. He doesn't man cover TEs (like all the other guys I mentioned do). He sticks his nose in on run plays, plays an outside contain, or he pass rushes, which is fine, but it's called a DE, not a hybrid.

Please, by all means, cite a game, prove me wrong. I hope I am just missing all these wonderful things he does as an OLB and maybe that's why I don't understand why he's crying about his 8. blah blah mil and franchise tender. He's got a bad attitude and his stats from the last 3 years don't back it up. Ship him out Ozzie!

Edit: NFL Prohibits contract negotiations with designated franchise players during the regular season, which includes TC, PS, RS and the playoffs. IF he gets resigned it won't be until next offseason. It won't get resolved.

Again, don't want to sound rude, I really want to know; what about his play last year makes you say it was his best year as a pro?

[BloodRaven]

The only downside to him playing the line is he is purely a speed rusher, he isnt a power shock and shed guy.

[berad]

The majority of the pro-trade posts I have read aren't really basing the idea to trade him off the fact that he is missing time, and assuming it will effect his play. I think the majority of pro-trade posts are so disappointed in his attitude, and how, while the rest of the guys get on board with a new program, he is sitting on his couch crying about 8. whatever million dollars. And in reality, perhaps the juice ain't worth the squeeze. He wants more money? For what? Another 5 sack season?

He is being a total child about everything, and to be honest, hasn't had a double digit sack season in 4 years. I say ship him out, see if we can't get a 1st rounder or Boldin for him. Boldin would help us alot more than Suggs would this year. In fact, plenty of other guys out there could help us more than Suggs will. Especially if he's going to be moaning all year. You know he's threatening (key word) to hold out until week 10? Why is all this happening again? Because he got tagged? C'mon. Ship him out.

His attitude? He's skipping camp to avoid an injury or harm to himself, potentially jeopardizing his career. He's not whining, he's approaching the game from a business standpoint. Why put himself in harms way when he neither gains anything or loses anything by not showing up? And how is he being childish? All of the things I've read or the press coverage I've watched he and his representatives have acted very diplomatically. He's not making a big fuss of anything, really. How in the world is he "moaning"? I've seen no proof of it..

Are you really holding it against Suggs that he hasn't had a 10+ sack season since '04? He still, on average, produces sacks with the best of them while executing his OLB duties as well. The man averages 9 sacks a season! More than .56 sacks a game! Those numbers look excellent to me!

And, finally, he doesn't want more money from the Ravens. $8+ million is more than almost any player makes in a year. He was looking for a long-term commitment from the Ravens, showing that, hey, he wants to be in Baltimore, he wants to be a Raven. Oh yeah, but you're right, his attitude sucks.

[Redreed]

His attitude? He's skipping camp to avoid an injury or harm to himself, potentially jeopardizing his career. He's not whining, he's approaching the game from a business standpoint. Why put himself in harms way when he neither gains anything or loses anything by not showing up? And how is he being childish? All of the things I've read or the press coverage I've watched he and his representatives have acted very diplomatically. He's not making a big fuss of anything, really. How in the world is he "moaning"? I've seen no proof of it..

Are you really holding it against Suggs that he hasn't had a 10+ sack season since '04? He still, on average, produces sacks with the best of them while executing his OLB duties as well. The man averages 9 sacks a season! More than .56 sacks a game! Those numbers look excellent to me!

And, finally, he doesn't want more money from the Ravens. $8+ million is more than almost any player makes in a year. He was looking for a long-term commitment from the Ravens, showing that, hey, he wants to be in Baltimore, he wants to be a Raven. Oh yeah, but you're right, his attitude sucks.

He's doing it in protest of being tagged, like all the divas do around the league. C'Mac did it in 2004, but he had a much better reason, being that it was the second consecutive year that they franchised him, after they promised that they would not. They've (Suggs and Ozzie) been working on this deal all off-season, and it hasn't gotten done. Logic would dictate that his play has not convinced the coaches/front office that he is worth the money he is asking for, however much it may be. Honestly, you don't want him in camp? You think it's fine he's skipping team meetings? I guess dude... I'm sure he'll be ready to go, but it's the principalities involved, man.

And sure, his career sack numbers are fine. About where they should be. 9 per season looks great. But, his average over the last 3 years is 7.5, which is still good, but not 8.4 Mil a year good. Not hold-out good. I never argued he hasn't had a good career. I'm saying, maybe, he's worth more on the market than he is on the stat sheet.

I take it you be really apposed to a Suggs/Boldin deal? Think about it. We can get production on the ends. We can. I bet Barnes can give us 7.5 sacks. We need production through the air, in the passing game. Suggs isn't acting like the leader that I'd personally hoped he'd become for us. His attitude, his stats, his contract, like I've said, to me, IMHO, is all replaceable. Especially if we have to chance to replace it with an explosive veteran offensive playmaker.

Edit: I did find the figures that Ozzie declined, somewhere in the 6 year/72 Million neighborhood, so you're right, he doesn't want 8 million a year, he want's 10 and change.

2nd Edit: I don't know if this means anything to you but:

It's believed that the team made an extremely lucrative offer, but Suggs rejected it.

(Updated 07/24/2008).

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/396177

[berad]

He has moaned, his agent said he's threatening to hold out until week 10. That goes a little beyond not risking injury. A link will follow to prove this. And what's more, we all know that he's not going to do any of this. He'll either show up for week 1 or he'll be traded. Idle threats=childish behavior.

Have you found any publishings about how much money he asked for? I'd love to read that. I think it's unfair for you to just assume that he doesn't want more money, only a long term commitment. Logic would dictate that his play has not convinced the coaches/front office that he is worth the money he is asking for, however much it may be.

And sure, his career sack numbers are fine. About where they should be. I never argued he hasn't had a good career. I'm saying, maybe, he's worth more on the market than he is on the stat sheet.

I take it you be really apposed to a Suggs/Boldin deal? Think about it. We can get production on the ends. We can. I bet Barnes can give us 5 sacks. We need production through the air, in the passing game. Suggs isn't acting like the leader that I'd personally hoped he'd become for us. His attitude, his stats, his contract, like I've said, to me, IMHO, is all replaceable. Especially if we have to chance to replace it with an explosive veteran offensive playmaker.

Edit: Couldn't find the link concerning the Agent's statement tonight =\ I'll keep looking. I did find the figures that Ozzie declined, somewhere in the 6 year/72 Million neighborhood, so you're right, he doesn't want 8 million a year, he want's 10 and change.

I have not seen anything even remotely suggesting Suggs is planning or even "threatening" to holdout until week 10. I know that it's a possibility, as with every franchised player, but nowhere have I seen Suggs' name in connection with such a threat. Until you show me proof, I'll discard that as a lie. Suggs' agent and all reporters point to Suggs skipping training camp and rejoining the team before week 1. Again, I see no proof of "childish" behavior.

And, no, I haven't seen any publishings on the rejected contract amount. Where's the link to the figure you found? I've been searching and haven't found anything except a bunch of rumors with no monetary amounts mentioned.

Also, stop discounting Suggs as some mediocre player. Rex Ryan cherishes him and his talents and Ozzie Newsome covets him and considers him a core player. Yeah, he had a bad season in '07, the entire team did; but that doesn't mean his talent has diminished or he is less effective.

Finally, the Boldin traded is highly unlikely to even be a possibility. For one, the Cardinals have him locked up for 3 more years. He's said he plans to play through his contract and give his best effort. Link Sounds like he's not going to raise a major stink and remain a productive Cardinal for 3 more years. More so, Ozzie's not going to trade Suggs willingly. Period.

[berad]

"Extremely Lucrative"?

What's that mean to a Sportswriter? I want numbers, not adjectives. "Believed" doesn't do much for convincing anyone, either.

[Redreed]

You do realize that the only people who know the real numbers are Ozzie, Terrell and his agents, there is plenty of speculation in your post as well, but I am not attacking you about it... you do realize this right?

The Ravens are reportedly making a "last ditch effort" to sign franchise player Terrell Suggs to a long-term contract.

This one may be harder than any other franchise player because Suggs will command money in the six-year, $72 million range. We'd bet against a deal being reached.

Source: ESPN Insider

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...Nfl&id=2237

How can you reject everything I submit from sportswriters while mentioning several times in your post that you read sports reporting on the exact same issue. It's not a fair play. I even prefaced it by questioning how much it meant because of how loosely it was worded (and, btw, I bet sportswriters have a much better understand of what a lucrative contract offer is than you do, unless your a sports agent, or a front office guy). Also, why are you so upset? Because I think we should ship Suggs, and his contract baggage, and his diminishing stats outta town? Sorry dude, that's my opinion. Rather have Boldin, and see what Barnes can do. I'd betcha he'd match Suggs stats from last year... and do it for 350k.

P.S. Re: Boldin: Players get traded while under contract, too, btw...

Edit: I will admit, after considerable searching tonight, that perhaps I misunderstood what I was reading about the week 10 holdout idea. Perhaps when it was mentioned as a possibility I read it as Suggs' Agent mentioning that it was a possibility. If so, I apoligize. But remember in 2004 when C'Mac held out until week 1 in protest of the tag because it was the second year he had been tagged, and only after he was promised that he wouldn't be tagged going into '04. To me, that's a legit protest. Wanting anything in the neighborhood of 72 Mil after you're worst season as a pro, and then holding-out because you don't get it is childish to me. Not leader material. And, it's okay for me to think that. It's also okay for you to disagree.

[berad]

You do realize that the only people who know the real numbers are Ozzie, Terrell and his agents, there is plenty of speculation in your post as well, but I am not attacking you about it... you do realize this right?

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...Nfl&id=2237

How can you reject everything I submit from sportswriters while mentioning several times in your post that you read sports reporting on the exact same issue. It's not a fair play. I even prefaced it by questioning how much it meant because of how loosely it was worded (and, btw, I bet sportswriters have a much better understand of what a lucrative contract offer is than you do, unless your a sports agent, or a front office guy). Also, why are you so upset? Because I think we should ship Suggs, and his contract baggage, and his diminishing stats outta town? Sorry dude, that's my opinion. Rather have Boldin, and see what Barnes can do. I'd betcha he'd match Suggs stats from last year... and do it for 350k.

P.S. Re: Boldin: Players get traded while under contract, too, btw...

Edit: I will admit, after considerable searching tonight, that perhaps I misunderstood what I was reading about the week 10 holdout idea. Perhaps when it was mentioned as a possibility I read it as Suggs' Agent mentioning that it was a possibility. If so, I apoligize. But remember in 2004 when C'Mac held out until week 1 in protest of the tag because it was the second year he had been tagged, and only after he was promised that he wouldn't be tagged going into '04. To me, that's a legit protest. Wanting anything in the neighborhood of 72 Mil after you're worst season as a pro, and then holding-out because you don't get it is childish to me. Not leader material. And, it's okay for me to think that. It's also okay for you to disagree.

First off, how is CMac's situation any different from Suggs'? He was promised a new contract and they've been working on it for well over a year. No deal has been struck.

I'm rejecting the things you say that you cannot back up, man. Terrell has made no indication of holding out until week 10 that I've seen or even heard rumors of. Terrell Suggs has not been acting childish. Those are blatant lies, dude. The denied contract is meaningless because no one knows the real monetary amounts, base salary, signing bonus, incentives, years long, etc. Contracts are complex and it's not a matter or "more or less money".

And what speculation is in my posts? Everything I said I can backup. Boldin says he will comply with his contract and play out his 3 years without any distractions or upsets, read the link I posted. Also, both Ozzie and Rex have confided that Suggs is a major part of this team and a member they want to keep.

Baltimore Sun

"General manager Ozzie Newsome said there is "no question" the Ravens will look to strike a new deal at the end of the season."

"We view him like Ed Reed, Todd Heap, Ray Lewis and Jonathan Ogden," Newsome said. "He is one of those guys that we want to keep a Raven."

FanNation

"We will continue to negotiate with 'Sizzle' with the intention of signing him to a long-term contract,'' Ravens general manager Ozzie Newsome said. 'He is one of our best players, and our success with re-signing our best players is very good. We've done this with players like Jonathan Ogden, Ray Lewis, Todd Heap, Ed Reed and Chris McAlister - and that was after we franchised Chris.''

"I've always said and believe in my heart that I'm a Raven,'' Suggs said. 'I love the city of Baltimore. On the front office side, we're decided by the decisions and moves they make, on whether they see me as a Raven.''

Carroll County Times

[Tiz]

Peyton Manning is one of the highest paid players in the league. He's restructured his contract a time or two but he's not losing any money over it. Tom Brady is a better example. Derek Andersons new contract pays him more per year then Tom Brady's deal does. Randy Moss makes more per year with his new deal then Tom Brady does.

THis is false too. Brady had a big signing bonus and front loaded contract which makes the back end of his deal lower most contracts are structured in this manner which is why DA is getting paid more for this season than Brady. newly signed contract vs contract in it's final years.

Peyton's contracts were the inverse and pretty similar to Mcnair in Tenn. He gets a good bonus and his contract has alot of money tied into the back end which he continuously renegotiates when necessary to free up money at that time for other team needs. In this example the Colts are using Peyton's contract like a bank and stowing away money there to be used for other needs at a later date.

Anyways regarding Suggs. He blew his wad fighting to change the way he was Tagged. To me that showed that he was more into the money and being paid now than he was about a long term deal. I don't get a great vibe from what I've read and heard about his future in Baltimore and don't believe he intends to remain for his career.

[heapitup247]

I pointed out that the key word in the holdout was threatened, because I agree he won't really do it. But, that just adds to my point of how childish and ridiculous his behavior is.

I don't want to sound rude, and we are all entitled to our own opinion, but I think it's quite laughable to call him the best DE/OLB hybrid. Shawne Merriman? Demarcus Ware? AD? Shawn Phillips? Say what you want, but all those guys had alot more sacks, AND all make alot more plays in coverage than Suggs does. In fact, when was the last time you saw Suggs make a play in coverage? It's really been astonishing to me to hear how many Ravens fans consider Suggs to be versatile. He pass rushes guys. Very rarely does he do anything besides pass rush. And when he does drop back into coverage he isn't batting balls or picking anything off. He's just out there because they told him to be out there. He doesn't man cover TEs (like all the other guys I mentioned do). He sticks his nose in on run plays, plays an outside contain, or he pass rushes, which is fine, but it's called a DE, not a hybrid.

Please, by all means, cite a game, prove me wrong. I hope I am just missing all these wonderful things he does as an OLB and maybe that's why I don't understand why he's crying about his 8. blah blah mil and franchise tender. He's got a bad attitude and his stats from the last 3 years don't back it up. Ship him out Ozzie!

Edit: NFL Prohibits contract negotiations with designated franchise players during the regular season, which includes TC, PS, RS and the playoffs. IF he gets resigned it won't be until next offseason. It won't get resolved.

Again, don't want to sound rude, I really want to know; what about his play last year makes you say it was his best year as a pro?

The players you mentioned are linebackers, dont fool yourself. They are linebackers who occasionally rush the passer. Suggs splits his time about 50-50 between end and linebacker. Suggs can stop the run, he can line up on the end and drop back, hes so versitile we can do so many things with him defensive end wise. Hes also a linebacker who can make plays in the passing game. Im not going to get on nfl network and watch every game again and make notes on when he does a good job in pass coverage. I watched every game this season and sometimes id even watch him throughout the entire play because it astounds me at what he can do at linebacker. He has great closing speed, and he can drop back into a zone and play it well. Sure, maybe he cant guard Antonio Gates 1-1, but who can? Tell me of any linebacker who can guard Todd Heap 1 on 1? I dont think youll find one. Last year i saw him take on a team role. I saw him become a team player rather than a guy who was out to get his. Taking on blocks, dropping back, doing the little things that made him a team player. The flash wasnt there and he was fine with that, and thats what made it his best year as a pro. Stats dont mean everything.

[Redreed]

The players you mentioned are linebackers, dont fool yourself. They are linebackers who occasionally rush the passer. Suggs splits his time about 50-50 between end and linebacker. Suggs can stop the run, he can line up on the end and drop back, hes so versitile we can do so many things with him defensive end wise. Hes also a linebacker who can make plays in the passing game. Im not going to get on nfl network and watch every game again and make notes on when he does a good job in pass coverage. I watched every game this season and sometimes id even watch him throughout the entire play because it astounds me at what he can do at linebacker. He has great closing speed, and he can drop back into a zone and play it well. Sure, maybe he cant guard Antonio Gates 1-1, but who can? Tell me of any linebacker who can guard Todd Heap 1 on 1? I dont think youll find one. Last year i saw him take on a team role. I saw him become a team player rather than a guy who was out to get his. Taking on blocks, dropping back, doing the little things that made him a team player. The flash wasnt there and he was fine with that, and thats what made it his best year as a pro. Stats dont mean everything.

*sigh*

Please read the 40 other posts concerning the debate as to what percentage of the time Suggs actually plays LB.

P.S. All the players I mention are considered hybrids. They all line up on the line. And roam off the ends, blitz and cover. It you don't think so you need to watch more football.

P.P.S. Terrell Suggs may drop back off the line into the passing game, but he doesn't effect it. Ever. It's pointless that he does it, hasn't picked a ball off since 2004 and both of those were deflections. Terrell Suggs does not impact the passing game at all when he drops back into coverage.

P.P.P.S. Stats don't mean everything, granted, but they do mean something. Why do you think records exist? Contract goals? They are a measure of play.

[berad]

Are you really holding it against him that he intercepted a deflected pass?

[Redreed]

He's skipping camp to avoid an injury or harm to himself, potentially jeopardizing his career.

Speculation. I'm sure it's what you've read. But athletes are very PC in times like this. This is speculation.

And, finally, he doesn't want more money from the Ravens. $8+ million is more than almost any player makes in a year.

Obviously speculation.

First off, how is CMac's situation any different from Suggs'? He was promised a new contract and they've been working on it for well over a year. No deal has been struck.

I told you how it was different. I guess I'll tell you again. They tagged him in 2003 and he didn't hold out because Ozzie promised they would never tag him again, and they did, the very next year, so in a show of protest for the teams apparent dishonesty, he didn't report until week 1. That's different that what Suggs is doing.

I'm rejecting the things you say that you cannot back up, man.

No dude, you rejected the stuff that I provided links for, too. All of it, or just didn't mention them. I apologized for the inaccuracy of the 10 week hold out thing, did I not? What's more is that you reject my opinion. Which is fine. You just need to keep in mind that I am entitled to it, and expressing it. If you disagree that's okay.

P.S. I put that same Boldin link up on 2 threads about 8 hours before you sent it to me, I read it, thanks.

Finally, Terrell is not "holding-out" anything. He's not under contract and allowed to not sign his franchise tender and not report to camp without getting fined.

When a player is disgruntled about contract issues and doesn't report to camp, that's called holding out. Regardless of whatever the collective bargaining agreement allows franchise players to get away with by not signing their tender. I'm not a lawyer, I'm a fan. I want my best players in camp, and at meetings. And if they aren't there because of money, I'll call it holding-out, even if technically it's not because he's currently not under contract.

Relax Johnny Flame.

[Redreed]

Are you really holding it against him that he intercepted a deflected pass?

Yes. Yes I am holding it against him that he intercepted a deflected pass!

No, it's simply and illustration of his ineffectiveness in the coverage game. He doesn't make plays from the zone and everybody treats him like he his DeMarcus Ware or something.

[heapitup247]

*sigh*

Please read the 40 other posts concerning the debate as to what percentage of the time Suggs actually plays LB.

P.S. All the players I mention are considered hybrids. They all line up on the line. And roam off the ends, blitz and cover. It you don't think so you need to watch more football.

P.P.S. Terrell Suggs may drop back off the line into the passing game, but he doesn't effect it. Ever. It's pointless that he does it, hasn't picked a ball off since 2004 and both of those were deflections. Terrell Suggs does not impact the passing game at all when he drops back into coverage.

P.P.P.S. Stats don't mean everything, granted, but they do mean something. Why do you think records exist? Contract goals? They are a measure of play.

*facepalm*

To say that when terrell suggs drops back he doesnt impact the passing game at all when he drops back isnt a accurate statement to say the least. Rex Ryan just drops him back just for the hell of it? He doesnt even really matter? The Ravens obviously agree with me here because they are going to offer him a lot of money to be a baltimore raven. Suggs has been an anchor of our defense, and he is a younger player that can still improve his game. Just because he holds out youre going to throw a fit and say trade him when we'd obviously not get anything near his worth because he is going to be a free agent after this season. C-Mac did it, and many other players have done it with little affect on their reputation. The collective bargaining agreement allows him to do so, so thats what hes going to do and rather than supporting him youre condeming him because he made a decision that was beneficial to him and didnt want to hurt his chances at getting his money. Him not showing up is beneficial to him, and him showing up may not hurt him, but it definintly wouldnt help him. watching him the past season i cant imagine our defense without him being there. It would hurt our defense the let him go, and thats not what we need. let him do his thing and when he wants to come back (which all of you are assuming is after camp and potentially into the season, but may not be the case at all) we support him and let him and ozzie figure out the rest.

[Redreed]

*facepalm*

To say that when terrell suggs drops back he doesnt impact the passing game at all when he drops back isnt a accurate statement to say the least. Rex Ryan just drops him back just for the hell of it? He doesnt even really matter? The Ravens obviously agree with me here because they are going to offer him a lot of money to be a baltimore raven. Suggs has been an anchor of our defense, and he is a younger player that can still improve his game. Just because he holds out youre going to throw a fit and say trade him when we'd obviously not get anything near his worth because he is going to be a free agent after this season. C-Mac did it, and many other players have done it with little affect on their reputation. The collective bargaining agreement allows him to do so, so thats what hes going to do and rather than supporting him youre condeming him because he made a decision that was beneficial to him and didnt want to hurt his chances at getting his money. Him not showing up is beneficial to him, and him showing up may not hurt him, but it definintly wouldnt help him. watching him the past season i cant imagine our defense without him being there. It would hurt our defense the let him go, and thats not what we need. let him do his thing and when he wants to come back (which all of you are assuming is after camp and potentially into the season, but may not be the case at all) we support him and let him and ozzie figure out the rest.

Dude, I've answered everything you bring up in a bunch of other posts, not going to type it again.

[berad]

Speculation. I'm sure it's what you've read. But athletes are very PC in times like this. This is speculation.

Ok, so if he is being "PC" (politically correct, I assume), then how is he acting childish? I've said it again and again, he's taking the business approach to the NFL and training camp.

Obviously speculation.

Actually, I did lie. Players often times get paid A LOT more than $8 million in a season. For example, Dwight Freeney got $30+ million of his $72 million dollar deal just in '07. The Colts did it to work with cap space and whatnot, but you get the point. Link

I told you how it was different. I guess I'll tell you again. They tagged him in 2003 and he didn't hold out because Ozzie promised they would never tag him again, and they did, the very next year, so in a show of protest for the teams apparent dishonesty, he didn't report until week 1. That's different that what Suggs is doing.

Terrell Suggs has been teased by an extension since early 2007. (Link). He never received one. Sounds very similar.

No dude, you rejected the stuff that I provided links for, too. All of it, or just didn't mention them. I apologized for the inaccuracy of the 10 week hold out thing, did I not? What's more is that you reject my opinion. Which is fine. You just need to keep in mind that I am entitled to it, and expressing it. If you disagree that's okay.

P.S. I put that same Boldin link up on 2 threads about 8 hours before you sent it to me, I read it, thanks.

I'm rejecting the notion of Suggs acting childish and has a bad attitude. I'm rejecting your idea that he's a mediocre player and could be easily replaced by an unproven 2nd year player. The organization knows the type of talent he processes and the impact he has on not only the Defense, but the team. My stand is that your opinion has no merit and is based on twisted words and, frankly, loose speculation.

When a player is disgruntled about contract issues and doesn't report to camp, that's called holding out. Regardless of whatever the collective bargaining agreement allows franchise players to get away with by not signing their tender. I'm not a lawyer, I'm a fan. I want my best players in camp, and at meetings. And if they aren't there because of money, I'll call it holding-out, even if technically it's not because he's currently not under contract.

I was just saying, it's technically not "holding out".

[FerrariFan87]

I was just saying, it's technically not "holding out".

How, pray tell, is not reporting for Training Camp and refusing to sign the Franchise Tag tender NOT holding out?? Last I checked, we couldn't sign him long-term at this point anyway, so him not showing up is just absurd and shows me he couldn't care less about the team.

[berad]

How, pray tell, is not reporting for Training Camp and not signing the Franchise Tag NOT holding out?? Please explain...

Link

"As an unsigned franchise player, Suggs isn't technically a holdout and has the right to skip camp without any financial penalties."

He's not under any contractual obligation so he's not holding-out of anything.

[berad]

Last I checked, we couldn't sign him long-term at this point anyway, so him not showing up is just absurd and shows me he couldn't care less about the team.

You're right, we can't. But he isn't obligated to sign the franchise tender. He isn't obligated to go to camp and risk injury. He's approaching the game from a business angle, as hard as it is for seemingly everyone to accept.

[Redreed]

You're right, we can't. But he isn't obligated to sign the franchise tender. He isn't obligated to go to camp and risk injury. He's approaching the game from a business angle, as hard as it is for seemingly everyone to accept.

Well, I think that you make some good points (Still, I disagree with a couple see below if you dare!). But no one really has any idea what Suggs is thinking or doing besides Suggs. And, essentially, that's the debate.

Honestly though... honestly, who do you want on your DL this year; a good business man, or a good team mate?

[Redreed]

I'm rejecting the notion of Suggs acting childish and has a bad attitude. I'm rejecting your idea that he's a mediocre player and could be easily replaced by an unproven 2nd year player.

Fair enough, but I disagree.

My stand is that your opinion has no merit and is based on twisted words and, frankly, loose speculation.

Fair enough, but I'm not bringing collecting bargaining loopholes to avoid harsh terms (hold-out), I'm not caring if he says the right things to the media because, for the most part, all athletes do, for the most part they all talk like robots. Partly because millions of dollars are at stake. And my assessment of Suggs play recently is my own personal opinion. I don't think he's as effective as you think he is. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that, but in no way is my thread contribution anymore derived from twisted words or loose speculation that yours is, you've just accepted the other side of it, and with decent grammar and a couple links you've made a case that he isn't doing anything wrong. I will admit that my take is based more so on my personal opinion, and my personal assessments, rather than staements. It's a fan forum. Lot of speculation goes on and we're all guilty. You too wether you think so or not.

I was just saying, it's technically not "holding out".

Gimme a break dude!

[FerrariFan87]

Link

"As an unsigned franchise player, Suggs isn't technically a holdout and has the right to skip camp without any financial penalties."

He's not under any contractual obligation so he's not holding-out of anything.

Sorry, he IS holding out. I don't care about technicalities and what-not. The point is he is showing up his new coach and not being a part of the TEAM. The money is FULLY GUARANTEED, just sign the tender and get your rear in camp!