The Ravens Offensive Scheme (part 2)

[True]

I made another thread about this [url="http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/33273-the-ravens-offensive-scheme/"]here[/url]. This is another one I've researched and hope shines some light on the offense that has everyone perturbed.

The Ravens are sticking with Cam Cameron. No matter how much you hate this, it’s going to remain the same and thus we have to move on with it. Jim Zorn is fired and thus anything doing with the West Coast Offense seems moot at this point. The Ravens are going to use the Air Coryell type offense next year.

Here is what it is for those who don’t know:
[quote]The goal of the Coryell offense is to have at least two downfield, fast wide receivers who adjust to the deep pass very well, combined with a sturdy pocket quarterback with a strong arm. The Coryell offense uses three key weapons. The first is a strong inside running game, the second is its ability to strike deep with two or more receivers on any play, and the third is to not only use those two attack in cooperation with each other, but to include a great deal of mid-range passing to a TE, WR, or back.[/quote][list]
[*]Joe Flacco, big arm QB, who is a pocket passer?
[*]Ray Rice running up the middle countless of times?
[*]Boldin, Mason, and Housh running deep routes?
[*]Todd Heap used over the middle and Ray Rice as the check down?[/list]
It has imprints all over the Ravens offense.

Why did it not work this year? It starts with the offensive line:

[IMG]http://i54.tinypic.com/6hs5ds.jpg[/IMG]

This is why Ray Rice dropped more than a full yard in yards per rush. The offensive line is weak in the middle and thus makes it harder to open holes and use the power running game. This is why Joe Flacco held the ball on too long since he was waiting for the WRs to complete their long routes. Add in a weak OL and it's a recipe for disaster. But Joe did the best he could and put up some good numbers. Still, he struggled a lot when the pressure was on. That's why he checked down to Ray Rice a lot because the pressure was on, the WRs didn't finish their routes and he had to do something.

Anyone who noticed the Ravens passing game saw that the WRs rarely ran across the middle and they ran deeper routes than usual. I looked at our receivers’ history in terms of their yards per catch and averaged their 3 years prior to working under Cam Cameron.
[list=1][*]Boldin (12 yards)
[*]Mason (11 yards)
[*]Houshmandzadeh (10.5 yards)
[*]Heap (10.5 yards)[/list]
Boldin and Houshmanzadeh are for this year, but Mason and Heap are averaged 3 years during Cam Cameron as OC.
[list][*]Boldin (13)
[*]Mason (13)
[*]Houshmanzadeh (13)
[*]Heap (12)[/list]
You may say that one or two yards aren’t that big of a difference but considering they are different from prior years it means a lot. These are three possessions receivers + TE who aren't very fast or explosive and excel in the short passing game. I also looked at the YAR for the WRs during Cam's tenure as the Chargers offensive coordinator. All their WRs and TE averaged 13 or more yards per a catch.

Now you'd say: Why did they not use McGahee more then? He's a better North/South runner than Rice and can push the pile. Why did they use Stallworth more for reverses instead of receiving? I honestly don't know the answers to this since I am not a part of the coaching staff but my best guesses are that Rice is a dual threat and Stallworth was injured for 10 games and thus couldn't be plugged middle of the year when the offense was pretty much set.


So how will the Ravens fix it? I believe they should start using The Pro Set.

[IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/2j5c27k.jpg[/IMG]
[quote]This formation is particularly popular because teams can both run and pass the football out of it with an equal amount of success. This is important because it keeps defenses guessing on what type of play the offense will run. Because the backs are opposite each other, it takes the defense longer to read the gap the offense will run the ball to.

Once the run has been established, it can be a very dangerous formation. Because of the real threat of a team running out of the pro-set, defenses must respect the play fake and play run. This pulls the safety to the line and opens up the middle of the field deep. Also, with both backs in position to "pick up" an outside blitz, the pro-set gives a quarterback an abundance of time to find an open receiver.[/quote]

Sounds pretty good huh? Remember the game winning drive Flacco had in week 4 against the Steelers? The last two plays were run out of this exact formation (with Heap in for McClain) and lead to the go ahead score.

Here’s what I think it should look like heading into 2011:

[IMG]http://i55.tinypic.com/ehhjdt.jpg[/IMG]

Of course a lot of this depends on certain players. Stallworth, Housh, McClain, and Yanda being re-signed. Whether Mason or Birk will retire before next year, or if the team will cut McGahee (he's owed 6 million next year). And arguably most important if Gaither is healthy and can play LT again. But since we won’t know until at least the draft and free agency start what kind of personnel the Ravens will pick up this is my best conjecture on how to get the most out of the Ravens offense next year.

[flynismo]

I've been saying all season we need to come out in two back sets, and hasnt happened yet. Doubt next year will be any different.

[RoflDogs]

The West Coast is a better fit for this offense than the Air Coryell imo

[Ed_Reed20]

I agree with much of what you said [i]True[/i] but I don't want T.J., or even Stallworth back next season. Rookie WRs are making an impact more than ever. Joe still won't be done developing but in his fourth season, I think he should be able to make plays with Reed, a draft pick and the young TEs.

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1296354176' post='628371']
The West Coast is a better fit for this offense than the Air Coryell imo
[/quote]

Don't most West Coast offenses call for a QB adept at throwing on the move? Joe has rarely done that in his career.

[bmorefan444]

Looks good. Hopefully our run offense will be a little more consistent in 2011 so we can draw that safety up and make the downfield clearer for Flacco. I don't like Housh and Boldin as the two recievers though. How about Boldin and David Reed or (insert your favorite WR from the draft)?

[PuRock]

[quote name='bmorefan444' timestamp='1296360767' post='628474']
Looks good. Hopefully our run offense will be a little more consistent in 2011 so we can draw that safety up and make the downfield clearer for Flacco. I don't like Housh and Boldin as the two recievers though. How about Boldin and David Reed or (insert your favorite WR from the draft)?
[/quote]

I think our motto for 2011 should just be "Consitency". Forget 'Play like a Raven' or 'W.I.N'. Just 'Consistency'.

[RoflDogs]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1296366773' post='628515']
I think our motto for 2011 should just be "Consitency". Forget 'Play like a Raven' or 'W.I.N'. Just 'Consistency'.
[/quote]
How bout "play hard the whole damn game"

[RavenDude11]

All of the Major Offenses use the spread. We needed to use the spread this year in an uptempo fashion with all the possession WRs we had. Why this wasn't obvious I don't know. Only thing that makes sense is they're not entirely sold on Flacco.

1. Chargers
2. Eagles
3. Texans
4. Colts
5. Giants
6. Saints
7. Cowboys
8. Patriots
9. Packers
10. Raiders

What do they have in common? They were all top ten offense in 2010 and all ran the spread (except maybe for oakland).

[BloodRaven]

The real problem is the entire system relies on a strong OL to run smoothly, even our big name WR corps isn't built for a Air Coryell by definition, our 3 possession receivers don't have the ability to go vertical and attack the entire field.

A West Coast system negates most of the OL issues and suits our receivers who work better underneath. Also Flacco is more mobile than a lot of QB's that run the WC.

(Edit: Every team uses the spread, we don't really have the talent to run it well)

[True]

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1296354176' post='628371']
The West Coast is a better fit for this offense than the Air Coryell imo
[/quote]
I feel the same way but Cam Cameron is the OC and is very rigid with his game plan. John Harbaugh has stuck with him and let go of Jim Zorn, so we're sticking with Air Coryell. No point in crying over spilled milk I guess.

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1296357062' post='628441']
I agree with much of what you said [i]True[/i] but I don't want T.J., or even Stallworth back next season. Rookie WRs are making an impact more than ever. Joe still won't be done developing but in his fourth season, I think he should be able to make plays with Reed, a draft pick and the young TEs.

[/quote]
You are right. I just went with a more veteran presence since we still don't know who'll be resigned. I would put Dickson in the slot since he's quite fast for a TE, and have Reed lined out since he can stretch the field (might point him in the slot, but I don't know how strong he is to run block). I love Mason, but I don't think he has the speed to fit into this system. Maybe the James Hardy signing was because he has the physique to stretch the field and is a perfect example of an Air Coryell type WR.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1296401269' post='628646']
You are right. I just went with a more veteran presence since we still don't know who'll be resigned. I would put Dickson in the slot since he's quite fast for a TE, and have Reed lined out since he can stretch the field (might point him in the slot, but I don't know how strong he is to run block). I love Mason, but I don't think he has the speed to fit into this system. Maybe the James Hardy signing was because he has the physique to stretch the field and is a perfect example of an Air Coryell type WR.
[/quote]

Good points and I agree about Mason and Hardy.

Whatever happens, I hope Dickson's speed is taken advantage of more next season.

[Pääjärvi]

Well,since the management gave Cam a vote of confidence I can see them trying to get pieces for his offensive system. Guys with size who can get downfield,what do you think of Baldwin? 6'5 and he's faster than Mase or Boldin. With the eyes set on Hankerson or Young, he might slip right in our hands.
Another great post by True anyway. I don't like Cam, but if the management wants his offensive system here, they better act like it and add wr with size who can get downfield and an OL who can protect for longer than 2 seconds

[True]

[quote name='Pääjärvi' timestamp='1296410032' post='628747']
Well,since the management gave Cam a vote of confidence I can see them trying to get pieces for his offensive system. Guys with size who can get downfield,what do you think of Baldwin? 6'5 and he's faster than Mase or Boldin. With the eyes set on Hankerson or Young, he might slip right in our hands.
Another great post by True anyway. I don't like Cam, but if the management wants his offensive system here, they better act like it and add wr with size who can get downfield and an OL who can protect for longer than 2 seconds
[/quote]
I like Baldwin. He has the perfect physique for this type of offense. Receivers who are 6+ feet are made for this type of scheme because of their jump ball capability (probably why they signed James Hardy). Makes sense considering how many times Cameron called for a fade in an endzone.

But the knock on Baldwin is that he isn't very fast or explosive. He'd be another possession receiver, but just bigger. Depends on his combine, but he could work.

I see a lot of hype for Titus Young and it's well deserved. The guy is a phenomenal route runner with great speed. But the thing that bothers me is his height because the WRs are all about the vertical passing game in Air Coryell. Being 5'11 and fighting for a jump ball is pretty hard. His speed is a big plus though and would drastically help for an explosive plays. Hankerson is good, but I'd probably take Torrey Smith over him because he's slightly faster.

Guys like Mike Sims-Walker or a Randy Moss (not saying the Ravens should get him) are the kind of mold you're looking for in this scheme.

[Alexir]

Great Post. Took a lot of your time I can imagine. There are definitely a lot of variations we could do with this scheme. Have heap in at McClains spot and Dickson at Heaps. Take out TE spot and put Boldin in Slot for 3rd and long situations out of shotgun. Good effort man.

+1

[ravensconvert]

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1296354176' post='628371']
The West Coast is a better fit for this offense than the Air Coryell imo
[/quote]

Explain?

Air Coryell defiantly fits Joe's skill set better. And if the O-line and run game had performed the same this year as last year they would fit the system too.

The only thing that doesn't fit air coryell is our receivers. IMO, that was the case because we went cheap when it came to receivers. Receivers are easier to replace then a QB.

[ravensconvert]

[quote name='RavenDude11' timestamp='1296386525' post='628599']
All of the Major Offenses use the spread. We needed to use the spread this year in an uptempo fashion with all the possession WRs we had. Why this wasn't obvious I don't know. Only thing that makes sense is they're not entirely sold on Flacco.

1. Chargers
2. Eagles
3. Texans
4. Colts
5. Giants
6. Saints
7. Cowboys
8. Patriots
9. Packers
10. Raiders

What do they have in common? They were all top ten offense in 2010 and all ran the spread (except maybe for oakland).
[/quote]

Do you know what a spread offense is? That's a very general term. All it really means is lots of WR on the field and usually the QB in shotgun with a single back. It doesn't describe a play calling style in any way. Both west coast and air coryelle can work out of the spread.

Even amongst your teams listed I can spot two power running teams. The #1 team runs air coryelle. I can't speak for all those teams, but many of them seem to strike down field to me, not a bunch of nickle and dime all day. The only true west coast system I can confirm on the list is NE.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='ravensconvert' timestamp='1296456186' post='629130']
Explain?

Air Coryell defiantly fits Joe's skill set better. And if the O-line and run game had performed the same this year as last year they would fit the system too.

The only thing that doesn't fit air coryell is our receivers. IMO, that was the case because we went cheap when it came to receivers. Receivers are easier to replace then a QB.
[/quote]

It plays to the strengths of the talent on our offense, how do we consistently go vertical with possession receivers? unless Mase retires we won't be able to go vertical this year either.

So either we find a big, fast WR who can start and click with Flacco immediately AND an OL that can pass and run block (a lot of big if's) we have to play quick high percentage passing underneath to negate our poor blocking and ground game.

[Guest DrVenture45]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1296352903' post='628328']
I've been saying all season we need to come out in two back sets, and hasnt happened yet. Doubt next year will be any different.
[/quote]
Agreed. And with Cam taking point chances are you're right.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1296489507' post='629225']
It plays to the strengths of the talent on our offense, how do we consistently go vertical with possession receivers? unless Mase retires we won't be able to go vertical this year either.

So either we find a big, fast WR who can start and click with Flacco immediately AND an OL that can pass and run block (a lot of big if's) [b]we have to play quick high percentage passing underneath to negate our poor blocking and ground game.[/b]
[/quote]

Assuming Yanda is re-signed, thee-fifths of the line is in place so it shouldn't be too difficult for the Ravens to solidify it overall this off-season. I don't think the OL will be as inconsistent next season.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1296352080' post='628311']
I made another thread about this [url="http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/33273-the-ravens-offensive-scheme/"]here[/url]. This is another one I've researched and hope shines some light on the offense that has everyone perturbed.

The Ravens are sticking with Cam Cameron. No matter how much you hate this, it’s going to remain the same and thus we have to move on with it. Jim Zorn is fired and thus anything doing with the West Coast Offense seems moot at this point. The Ravens are going to use the Air Coryell type offense next year.

Here is what it is for those who don’t know:
[list]
[*]Joe Flacco, big arm QB, who is a pocket passer?
[*]Ray Rice running up the middle countless of times?
[*]Boldin, Mason, and Housh running deep routes?
[*]Todd Heap used over the middle and Ray Rice as the check down?[/list]
It has imprints all over the Ravens offense.

Why did it not work this year? It starts with the offensive line:

[IMG]http://i54.tinypic.com/6hs5ds.jpg[/IMG]

This is why Ray Rice dropped more than a full yard in yards per rush. The offensive line is weak in the middle and thus makes it harder to open holes and use the power running game. This is why Joe Flacco held the ball on too long since he was waiting for the WRs to complete their long routes. Add in a weak OL and it's a recipe for disaster. But Joe did the best he could and put up some good numbers. Still, he struggled a lot when the pressure was on. That's why he checked down to Ray Rice a lot because the pressure was on, the WRs didn't finish their routes and he had to do something.

Anyone who noticed the Ravens passing game saw that the WRs rarely ran across the middle and they ran deeper routes than usual. I looked at our receivers’ history in terms of their yards per catch and averaged their 3 years prior to working under Cam Cameron.
[list=1][*]Boldin (12 yards)
[*]Mason (11 yards)
[*]Houshmandzadeh (10.5 yards)
[*]Heap (10.5 yards)[/list]
Boldin and Houshmanzadeh are for this year, but Mason and Heap are averaged 3 years during Cam Cameron as OC.
[list][*]Boldin (13)
[*]Mason (13)
[*]Houshmanzadeh (13)
[*]Heap (12)[/list]
You may say that one or two yards aren’t that big of a difference but considering they are different from prior years it means a lot. These are three possessions receivers + TE who aren't very fast or explosive and excel in the short passing game. I also looked at the YAR for the WRs during Cam's tenure as the Chargers offensive coordinator. All their WRs and TE averaged 13 or more yards per a catch.

Now you'd say: Why did they not use McGahee more then? He's a better North/South runner than Rice and can push the pile. Why did they use Stallworth more for reverses instead of receiving? I honestly don't know the answers to this since I am not a part of the coaching staff but my best guesses are that Rice is a dual threat and Stallworth was injured for 10 games and thus couldn't be plugged middle of the year when the offense was pretty much set.


So how will the Ravens fix it? I believe they should start using The Pro Set.

[IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/2j5c27k.jpg[/IMG]


Sounds pretty good huh? Remember the game winning drive Flacco had in week 4 against the Steelers? The last two plays were run out of this exact formation (with Heap in for McClain) and lead to the go ahead score.

Here’s what I think it should look like heading into 2011:

[IMG]http://i55.tinypic.com/ehhjdt.jpg[/IMG]

Of course a lot of this depends on certain players. Stallworth, Housh, McClain, and Yanda being re-signed. Whether Mason or Birk will retire before next year, or if the team will cut McGahee (he's owed 6 million next year). And arguably most important if Gaither is healthy and can play LT again. But since we won’t know until at least the draft and free agency start what kind of personnel the Ravens will pick up this is my best conjecture on how to get the most out of the Ravens offense next year.
[/quote]


Probably somebody alredy said this, but Air Coryell is predicated on fast, preferably big, wide receivers and tight ends and a power running game. The oline issues killed our pass and run protection, and we didn't have the personell, except maybe Stallworth, that was capable of running those kinds of routes in the time frame we were given. So, if we keep the same WRs and give Joe more time to let the routes develop, or we draft bigger, faster targets while fixing the o-line, then we can run Air Coryell (it's basically what San Diego runs).

[Guest DrVenture45]

Offensive schemes are well and good, I just want to see three main things happen; (defensively) [b]better coverage from the cornerbacks [/b](stop giving opposing receivers room enough to park their Hummers), [b]Better redzone and 4th quarter management[/b] (or lead management), [b]Flacco's pocket awareness improve [/b](if he curls up anymore than in the past season, he may as well start endorsing bassinets. That will be enough for me.

[The Prestige]

I've made a point that I think Flacco or Cameron don't take advantage of Boldin's catch radius. He can be a red zone beast. I think of the score he had on the sideline catch against Minnesota in 2009.

All you people who are excited about Baldwin - and I definitely think you can't have enough size/speed freaks on your team - need to remember he's only done it on the college level. Boldin has had at least five TDs in all of the seven seasons he played 12 or more games in except Leinart's rookie year (which also featured the worst run game in football, no wonder they couldn't get to the red zone) where he still had 1203 yards.

The Ravens' red zone TD% was 49.02%. That is not very good for the weapons they had. Cam seems pretty stuck in his ways. Even if Stallworth wasn't ready to run routes on every play they had, he should have been out there more in the red zone.

Two ways you could use Stallworth at the 12-15 yard line:

I-formation, where Flacco play-actions to McGahee and McClain runs up to block where a tight end usually is. At that point - if there's no tight end on the right side - Flacco has Housh on the left/Stallworth on the right both going end zone and can throw a drag or quick slant to Boldin. If there is Heap on the right side, the overload of Stallworth deep on the right and Heap and McClain - if he doesn't block - 3-5 yards down the field creates a great screen to McGahee.

The reason you acquire a guy with the YAC ability of Boldin is to find a way to give him the ball in space. Flacco motions out of a shotgun trips, and Boldin comes around to line up at tight end, Stallworth comes in the backfield. At this point, Mason and Housh are wide right, David Reed (NOT Ed Dickson) is wide left. Flacco snaps the ball, fakes a hand off to Stallworth who runs out to the flat on the left. If Flacco pump-fakes to Reed doing some sort of dig or in the end zone, immediately you have match-up goldmines.

My thought has always been that Cam was afraid to tip his hand. It seems like he kept the same personnel groupings - because he wanted the defenses to always think he might run. In this situation I drew up, even if a team puts six-seven DBs out there on the play, it still favors Baltimore. Flacco has one really fast target on the outside guarded by the nickel corner and possibly a safety, another fast target in the flat covered by the team's fourth or fifth best cover guy, a team's best corner on Boldin, and team's second and fifth best on Mason and Housh.

I find it hard to believe these would not be high-percentage, low-risk passing plays in the red zone.

[ravensconvert]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1296489507' post='629225']
It plays to the strengths of the talent on our offense, how do we consistently go vertical with possession receivers? unless Mase retires we won't be able to go vertical this year either.

So either we find a big, fast WR who can start and click with Flacco immediately AND an OL that can pass and run block (a lot of big if's) we have to play quick high percentage passing underneath to negate our poor blocking and ground game.
[/quote]

Yes, that makes sense for our WR, but does it make sense for the whole team?

Joe has never been, and still isn't, a quick release guy. He was drafted to be a big armed pocket passer who hits people on intermediate and long routes. That was always the plan, and a guarantee they practiced it all off season that way.

Ray Rice does well in space and isolated, you don't get a lot of space if everyone is running short routes.

I get the WR don't fit. They don't fit because we haven't put the resources into getting WR that fit. We have invested no draft picks. We signed Boldin because he was a lot cheaper then signing V-Jax or some other big time down field receiver. You can disagree with that decision making, but there are resource limitations that explain why they did it.

[Suggs Package]

For everyone hoping that we run the West Coast Offense, it's not going to happen as long as Flacco is the QB. He's too big and has too slow a release to succeed in a true WCO. I think Zorn was fired because he was a West Coast QB and he was mentoring Flacco on WCO principles. For example, Zorn wanted Flacco to compact his throwing motion, "playing short" and Cam's Air Coryell requires Joe to stand tall in the pocket and being patient. Basically by Flacco compacting himself, it takes away from his strength, which is throwing deep.

I would like to see some of the playaction reduced next year. Running playaction and Joe only having a second or two to scan the field gets him killed, especially since our tackle position was subpar on pass protection this year. I can recall so many plays where the DE/OLB simply did not bite on the playaction at all, mostly during the two minute drill. No one bites on playaction during the 2 minute drill.

Ray Rice wasn't much of a threat running the ball this year (Chris Chester's fault), I think he averaged under 4ypc, even more reason to abandon so much of the playaction.

[ghost1986]

This is a good topic. If Gaither doesn't stop whining about back Spasms this year, I say we cut him and draft or trade for a new Tackle. If we had Oher at RT, Yanda as RG and Chester not in at all since all he did was get run over, and also if we had a decent LT, we probably would have had some better production on offense this year. I'm not saying we would have gone to the Super Bowl because we just gave games up in the second half or 4th quarter. But I think it will be interesting to see if we can get Baldwin or if Hardy will make the cut. They both look like they have the physique needed for a slot receiver. And I'm also curious to see if we keep Stallworth and/or Housh. I'd never heard of Stallworth before this year, although everyone was telling me he was the fastest on our team. Although Housh gave us a win against the Steelers, he also dropped the pass to keep the playoff game alive. And he also complains too much. At least Stallworth was fine with it. As long as we keep Boldin though, I'm good. I got the man's autograph and a pic with him. And he did have a lot of big plays with us. And someone mentioned he's a beast in the red zone. I believe that. The 2nd game against the Steelers in the regular season, he had a huge TD catch against them and he had an amazing catch in the back of the end zone against the Chiefs. The main question is will Cam Cameron be able to make it work? And does anyone know if a QB can improve his release time? Because I too have noticed Flacco has a slow release. Any way of improving that or is that just his style? Just seems to be a major disadvantage.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ghost1986' timestamp='1296512263' post='629490']
This is a good topic. If Gaither doesn't stop whining about back Spasms this year, I say we cut him and draft or trade for a new Tackle. If we had Oher at RT, Yanda as RG and Chester not in at all since all he did was get run over, and also if we had a decent LT, we probably would have had some better production on offense this year. I'm not saying we would have gone to the Super Bowl because we just gave games up in the second half or 4th quarter. But I think it will be interesting to see if we can get Baldwin or if Hardy will make the cut. They both look like they have the physique needed for a slot receiver. And I'm also curious to see if we keep Stallworth and/or Housh. I'd never heard of Stallworth before this year, although everyone was telling me he was the fastest on our team. Although Housh gave us a win against the Steelers, he also dropped the pass to keep the playoff game alive. And he also complains too much. At least Stallworth was fine with it. As long as we keep Boldin though, I'm good. I got the man's autograph and a pic with him. And he did have a lot of big plays with us. And someone mentioned he's a beast in the red zone. I believe that. The 2nd game against the Steelers in the regular season, he had a huge TD catch against them and he had an amazing catch in the back of the end zone against the Chiefs. The main question is will Cam Cameron be able to make it work? [b]And does anyone know if a QB can improve his release time? Because I too have noticed Flacco has a slow release. Any way of improving that or is that just his style? Just seems to be a major disadvantage[/b].
[/quote]

Joe can be slow dropping back and scanning the field but when he sets his feet, and even when he doesn't at times, his release is very quick in my opinion.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='ravensconvert' timestamp='1296503181' post='629361']
Yes, that makes sense for our WR, but does it make sense for the whole team?

Joe has never been, and still isn't, a quick release guy. He was drafted to be a big armed pocket passer who hits people on intermediate and long routes. That was always the plan, and a guarantee they practiced it all off season that way.

Ray Rice does well in space and isolated, you don't get a lot of space if everyone is running short routes.

I get the WR don't fit. They don't fit because we haven't put the resources into getting WR that fit. We have invested no draft picks. We signed Boldin because he was a lot cheaper then signing V-Jax or some other big time down field receiver. You can disagree with that decision making, but there are resource limitations that explain why they did it.
[/quote]

The theory behind the run in a west coast offense is that heavy passing passing opens up running lanes kind by forcing the defense to play coverage. His carries would go down but ypc and receptions would go up.

Flacco has shown some elusive ability and has the speed to eat up yards if not accounted for, and even though he was drafted for his big arm his bread and butter hasn't been the typical vertical bombs, it's been quick checkdowns and short underneath routes.

[ravensconvert]

[quote name='Suggs Package' timestamp='1296508671' post='629435']
For everyone hoping that we run the West Coast Offense, it's not going to happen as long as Flacco is the QB. He's too big and has too slow a release to succeed in a true WCO. I think Zorn was fired because he was a West Coast QB and he was mentoring Flacco on WCO principles. For example, Zorn wanted Flacco to compact his throwing motion, "playing short" and Cam's Air Coryell requires Joe to stand tall in the pocket and being patient. Basically by Flacco compacting himself, it takes away from his strength, which is throwing deep.

I would like to see some of the playaction reduced next year. Running playaction and Joe only having a second or two to scan the field gets him killed, especially since our tackle position was subpar on pass protection this year. I can recall so many plays where the DE/OLB simply did not bite on the playaction at all, mostly during the two minute drill. No one bites on playaction during the 2 minute drill.

Ray Rice wasn't much of a threat running the ball this year (Chris Chester's fault), I think he averaged under 4ypc, even more reason to abandon so much of the playaction.
[/quote]


Agree. If we had a better run game they would honor it more, but there is zero reason to put Joe under center in obvious passing situations.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1296529989' post='629826']
The theory behind the run in a west coast offense is that heavy passing passing opens up running lanes kind by forcing the defense to play coverage. His carries would go down but ypc and receptions would go up.

[b]Flacco has shown some elusive ability and has the speed to eat up yards if not accounted for, and even though he was drafted for his big arm his bread and butter hasn't been the typical vertical bombs, it's been quick checkdowns and short underneath routes.[/b]
[/quote]

I'd say that speaks more to the system and personnel. Two of his three most consistent targets to this point in his career have been aging players who specialize in shorter routes and a RB with great pass-catching skills.

Joe has seemed hesitant to pull the trigger at times but he hasn't exactly had a down-field threat to grow comfortable with either.

[BloodRaven]

Wouldn't it make more sense to play to Joe's strengths and the strengths of the personnel right now? we have to force the issue and find the perfect pieces to make the system run smoothly.