Joe's Not Happy With Zorn Firing

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1296341626' post='628129']
Exactly. People keep saying he mentored Brees and Rivers before they became so great. So let's read that again. BEFORE they became great. Why does he get credit for grooming them when there's just as much evidence that he held them down?

Here's the logic:
Brees: Starts with Cam, then becomes great
Rivers: Starts with Cam, then becomes great
Flacco: Starts with Cam... let's keep 'im around!
[/quote]

How was he holding either of them down?

Brees handed the ball off to LT a lot more than he does to any RB in New Orleans. [b]Of course his numbers have increased[/b].

The same applies Rivers, who has put up bigger numbers since LT's decline and departure.

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1296341855' post='628133']
We saw a lot of them in the Chiefs game, but not as much in the Steelers game. Hue Jackson's tips are the only reasons why Cam ran them imo
[/quote]

Well, KC's zone scheme allowed the crossing routes to be more effective. I saw Joe flat out miss two crossing routes against the Steelers.

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1296341865' post='628134']
One game. Where he reportedly called up Hue and asked specifically what worked against the Chiefs. One game. Where it is likely the plays came from someone else. ONE game because he certainly (other than the first drive) did not incorporate them in the game against the Steelers.

No one is saying that there weren't execution issues at times nor that the O line wasn't weak this season but really, the man's play calling was predictable and that's putting it mildly. Plus, perhaps my biggest issue, was his absolute refusal to adjust his offensive scheme to incorporate the talent on the team, account for a weak O line and play to the strengths of his players.
[/quote]

So wait, did you expect him to adjust his play-book with a still-developing QB and inconsistent OL mid-season [i]and[/i] see a crisp offense?

Like I said before, I saw crossing routes against the Steelers but they weren't completed.

Cam has major issues, that can't be denied. Despite all of his problems though, the offense was doing just enough during the season and could have still been playing football had they taken care of business in the biggest game of the season. Of course, they may have done more period had Cam taken advantage of his personnel more but he didn't. Many an OC have been accused of the same thing around the league and are still employed.

[quote name='darklight1216' timestamp='1296341940' post='628137']
Scoring? 357 in 2010, 391 in 2009, and 385 in '08.
[/quote]

Okay. The drop in scoring this season compared to last coincides directly with the running game's decline.

I've asked before and will continue to do so: how many third-year QBs in today's NFL are at the center of high-flying, high-scoring offenses?

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1296342265' post='628144']
I was referring to the chemistry between Cam and Joe. It was in response to the post saying they had 5-6 months to work out their differences. That situation has only gotten worse, this past season especially.

Yep, he said he'd be more involved but he also said "CAM drives that." This isn't about what I or any other fans think really. Players on the team came out during the season about Cam's play calling and his control issues in regards to Joe. Harbaugh's answer to that is to give him even more control? Even with the CBA issues, it makes no sense to give him more power when one of the issues the players had with him were that he did not value player input and wants it all his way.
[/quote]

With no more "buffers", they will be forced to improve their chemistry. I for one, believe they can make it work, especially if player personnel is improved.

Harbaugh's comments still don't mean he won't tell Cam to change if he disagrees. Simply being more involved in the offense will probably open his eyes to some of Cam's negative tendencies and lead to changes.

Then what does make sense? You can't fire him with the labor uncertainty and expect a new OC to be brought in and implement his offense, so what should have been done?

[bdravens]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1296340563' post='628108']
Not to be a downer really but haven't they had 3 years together? And it's only gotten worse, not better. Cam is a control freak and I don't see that changing any time soon, if at all. I don't see the logic in anyone, especially the HC and the FO, believing that forcing them into closer contact is going to help anything.

We might be served well to actually look into a young QB in the draft for grooming because if Harbaugh doesn't get over his man love for Cam, I see Flacco taking a walk when his contract is up IMO.
[/quote]
I mostly meant that they were going to be spending more time together, since it's been decided Cam will have a more active role with Flacco. And with Harbaugh also taking more part, then maybe it will somehow clear the air. This is Joe's offense, at this point in his career. Let him loose.

[RoflDogs]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1296343277' post='628160']
How was he holding either of them down?

Brees handed the ball off to LT a lot more than he does to any RB in New Orleans. [b]Of course his numbers have increased[/b].

The same applies Rivers, who has put up bigger numbers since LT's decline and departure.

[size="3"][i]That's just ludicrous. Brees had 1 good season with Cam Cameron with a good YPA in 2004, and LT still had a good load of carries. Other than that, his YPA has been rather mediocre. After he left, his YPA has seen a significant increase, which has nothing to do with the running back workload. Phillip Rivers had 2 good seasons from LT. He had a better season when LT got more touches.

Also, these QBs have never sniffed 4000 yards with Cam Cameron. After Cam Cameron left, Drew Brees always had over 4000 yards, and Rivers cept 1 season (his first season w/ Turner) he's always had over 4000 yards w/ amazing YPA

Well, KC's zone scheme allowed the crossing routes to be more effective. I saw Joe flat out miss two crossing routes against the Steelers.

That's not true. The Chiefs primarily run a man scheme in the back end because of Flowers and Carr.

[/i][/size]So wait, did you expect him to adjust his play-book with a still-developing QB and inconsistent OL mid-season [i]and[/i] see a crisp offense?

[size="3"][i]You shouldn't try to keep consistently go to the deep ball when you know that the OL can't protect long enough for those long developing routes
[/i]
[/size]Like I said before, I saw crossing routes against the Steelers but they weren't completed.

[size="3"][i]A handful, and crossing routes aren't the only routes that go inside (slants and ins and such)

[/i][/size]Cam has major issues, that can't be denied. Despite all of his problems though, the offense was doing just enough during the season and could have still been playing football had they taken care of business in the biggest game of the season. Of course, they may have done more period had Cam taken advantage of his personnel more but he didn't. Many an OC have been accused of the same thing around the league and are still employed.

Okay. The drop in scoring this season compared to last coincides directly with the running game's decline.

I've asked before and will continue to do so: how many third-year QBs in today's NFL are at the center of high-flying, high-scoring offenses?

With no more "buffers", they will be forced to improve their chemistry. I for one, believe they can make it work, especially if player personnel is improved.

Harbaugh's comments still don't mean he won't tell Cam to change if he disagrees. Simply being more involved in the offense will probably open his eyes to some of Cam's negative tendencies and lead to changes.

[size="3"][i]Joe himself said that he doesn't think that John will do much. Just be an overseer

[/i][/size]Then what does make sense? You can't fire him with the labor uncertainty and expect a new OC to be brought in and implement his offense, so what should have been done?

[size="3"][i]Sadly, this is the only reason Cam is still with us
[/i][/size][/quote]

Comments in big font

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1296347473' post='628239']
That's just ludicrous. Brees had 1 good season with Cam Cameron with a good YPA in 2004, and LT still had a good load of carries. Other than that, his YPA has been rather mediocre. After he left, his YPA has seen a significant increase, which has nothing to do with the running back workload. Phillip Rivers had 2 good seasons from LT. He had a better season when LT got more touches.

Also, these QBs have never sniffed 4000 yards with Cam Cameron. After Cam Cameron left, Drew Brees always had over 4000 yards, and Rivers cept 1 season (his first season w/ Turner) he's always had over 4000 yards w/ amazing YPA

[size="3"][b]How is it ludicrous? Why are you focusing solely on the YPA? Didn't Brees' attempts increase and receiving weapons improve on his move to New Orleans? Hasn't he gained more experience since his time with San Diego? Couldn't those factors have also contributed to more production?

Phillip Rivers had [size="3"]one season as a starter[/size] with Cam. How many QBs throw for 4000 yards in their first season as a starter?
[/b][/size]

That's not true. The Chiefs primarily run a man scheme in the back end because of Flowers and Carr.

[size="3"][b]"Coming up huge on third downs while exploiting the [size="5"]Chiefs' zone defense[/size] in the middle of the field, Flacco established a career postseason-high in passing yards by halftime."

[url="http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_previousnews.aspx?sport=nfl&id=4677"]Link[/url]
[/b][/size]

You shouldn't try to keep consistently go to the deep ball when you know that the OL can't protect long enough for those long developing routes

[size="3"][b]Do you have a breakdown on how many times he called deep routes as opposed to others?[/b][/size]

A handful, and crossing routes aren't the only routes that go inside (slants and ins and such)

[size="3"][b]I saw slants and ins against the Steelers as well and can provide video if you want.[/b][/size]

Joe himself said that he doesn't think that John will do much. Just be an overseer.

[size="3"][b]So does that guarantee John would just stand idly by and do nothing if he saw something he disagreed with in an offensive meeting?[/b][/size]

Sadly, this is the only reason Cam is still with us

[size="3"][b]I think it's the biggest but not the only reason[/b][/size].
[/quote]

[Bullrush]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1296334845' post='628046']
That's a terrible analogy because in the business world, your competitors aren't directly involved in countering whatever attempts you have to excel and flat out trying to make you look bad.

Did you see the o-line block this season? Did you see the mistakes Joe made at times? You're lying to yourself if you don't believe neither the o-line or QB had issues.

I have [b]never[/b] said Cam doesn't deserve any blame. Don't misconstrue what I say because you don't fully agree with me that the offense's stagnation was a combination of factors. [/quote]
1) How does that have anything to do with Cam not being in charge and responsible of what goes on with our offense?
2) Don't be silly. If you haven't realized that the reason why our O-Line struggled was because every guy got shifted around then I don't know what to say. Those guys didn't all just magically forget how to play football over the offseason. And nobody's saying that Flacco is perfect, but when you produce All Pro type numbers as a QB you're pretty much untouchable. Look for something else to complain or fix. It's not the QB. Especially when half of the INT's he's thrown over the entire season came in one game. From week 3-17 I think Flacco posted the best or 2nd best QB rating in the entire NFL.

[Ravenslifer]

I might feel different if we were replacing one postion coach with another. But from what I understand, we're gettin rid of the positon entirely for next season, or Cam will take over the position or somethng like that. Hopefully I'm wrong. I don't see the sense in that, especally when you consider that the top quarterbacks in the league, Manning, Brady, Brees, etc. all have qb coaches.

[Bullrush]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1296341980' post='628138']
Did I actually argue the potential of the OL, or your assessment of their actual performance? I'm well aware of the talent that we have up front. Did they perform well given their situation? More-so than not, yes. Could they have been incredible if Gaither wasn't a scratch, allowing them the privilege of avoiding playing out of position? Without a doubt. But we wouldn't be addressing the run game as our first priority if they were never an issue this year. Your statement wasn't inquisitive about how well they would've achieved if our lineup was similar to the 2009 one. You said they were great in 2010. And they weren't. Simple as that.
[/quote]
First of all I never mentioned 2010, so don't put any words in my mouth. Maybe I should have said I didn't include 2010 when talking about our O-Line. But I never said they played great in 2010. It's pretty pointless for you to argue about whether they played well or not in 2010. It doesn't matter.

If Reed goes on IR and Nakamura fills in are you gonna complain about how we need to upgrade the safety position because our safeties didn't perform as well with our key guy not in there? Or do you understand that once Reed returns it'll all be back to normal and there's no issue at safety? Because that's what you're doing right now with our O-Line. We all know they sucked last year, but when you shift the guys back they'll play well, they have and they will. I don't understand what you're arguing about.

[Romo Ravens]

I just feel bad for Harbaugh. He may have made the worst decision of his coaching career by keeping Cam. I think his extension should wait after next season.

[Ravenslifer]

Of course Joe's not happy. Zorn's not the one calling three straight runs in OT against the Patriots. Zorn's not the one who called a ton of crossing routes in KC and refused to do it the entire rest of the season, including against Pittsburg the next week. Zorn isn't the one who has control over player personnel on the offensive side of the ball, and has our fastest wide receiver and our two rookie tight ends sitting on the bench all season.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Bullrush' timestamp='1296349902' post='628270']
1) How does that have anything to do with Cam not being in charge and responsible of what goes on with our offense?
2) Don't be silly. If you haven't realized that the reason why our O-Line struggled was because every guy got shifted around then I don't know what to say. Those guys didn't all just magically forget how to play football over the offseason. And nobody's saying that Flacco is perfect, but when you produce All Pro type numbers as a QB you're pretty much untouchable. Look for something else to complain or fix. It's not the QB. Especially when half of the INT's he's thrown over the entire season came in one game. From week 3-17 I think Flacco posted the best or 2nd best QB rating in the entire NFL.
[/quote]

1) You're the one that brought up the a business analogy. Cam [i]is[/i] in charge but he isn't solely responsible for the stagnant offense. He can organize and draw up whatever schemes he wants but in football, consists of coaching and execution.

We can disagree all day about what was a bigger factor in the offense not producing to the level of pre-season expectations but I don't see what's wrong in acknowledging it was a combination.

[b]I don't like that these things didn't happen[/b] but people make it seem like had Cam tried to get Stallworth more involved, ran the ball more with Willis or drawn up quicker routes, especially at the goal-line, the offense would have definitely scored more points. How do we know Stallworth wouldn't have got hurt, Willis continued to tap-dance or Joe throw more picks? [b]We will never know[/b].

2) Obviously the OL struggled because of some shifts. You're the one who said:

[quote]
[b][size="3"]Besides we never had any O-Line issues or QB issues.[/size][/b]
[/quote]

Flacco is [i]untouchable[/i] now? WOW...

And again with the QB rating crutch argument. That wonderful statistic isn't the end all be all some fans seemingly want it be.

Who knows? Had Joe been just a bit more trigger-happy, his INT total may have increased but he also may have had more completions and TD passes.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1296350161' post='628272']
I might feel different if we were replacing one postion coach with another. But from what I understand, we're gettin rid of the positon entirely for next season, or Cam will take over the position or somethng like that. Hopefully I'm wrong. I don't see the sense in that, especally when you consider that the top quarterbacks in the league, Manning, Brady, Brees, etc. all have qb coaches.
[/quote]

You know who Brady's QB coach is? Bill O'Brien. Would you like to know who calls offensive plays for the Pats? [size="3"][b]Bill O'Brien[/b][/size].

[ravenwildman]

Well, its pretty obvious now that Joe Flacco wants to do a sit down, or at least address, with the powers in charge about the offense.

It would appear, based on his comments that all is not well in the land of Ravens as suggested in pressers.

How Harbaugh handles this between Flacco, the offense, and Cam Cameron will decide what kind of year 2011-12 will be.

The box of worms is now officially open.

GO RAVENS!

[bdravens]

[quote name='ravenwildman' timestamp='1296351522' post='628296']
Well, its pretty obvious now that Joe Flacco wants to do a sit down, or at least address, with the powers in charge about the offense.

It would appear, based on his comments that all is not well in the land of Ravens as suggested in pressers.

How Harbaugh handles this between Flacco, the offense, and Cam Cameron will decide what kind of year 2011-12 will be.

The box of worms is now officially open.

GO RAVENS!
[/quote]
Joe should definitely let it be known what he wants. Like I said, it's his offense at this point in his career. His hands can't be tied behind his back like they were this year anymore.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1296350912' post='628286']
Of course Joe's not happy. Zorn's not the one calling three straight runs in OT against the Patriots. [b]Zorn's not the one who called a ton of crossing routes in KC and refused to do it the entire rest of the season, including against Pittsburg the next week[/b]. Zorn isn't the one who has control over player personnel on the offensive side of the ball, and has our fastest wide receiver and our two rookie tight ends sitting on the bench all season.
[/quote]

You're wrong; those routes were called during the season and against the Steelers.

[RoflDogs]

I focus on YPA because it's independent from how many times you pass the ball (you said that "Brees handed the ball off to LT a lot more than he does to any RB in New Orleans. [b]Of course his numbers have increased[/b]." which implies that he passed the ball more, so he has better numbers.) I think there isn't a huge difference between 5 years of experience vs 6 years of experience (in a NEW system).

Joe Horn, Devery Henderson, Marques Colston (a rookie), Mark Campbell, Deuce McAllister, Reggie Bush
vs
Antonio Gates, Keenan McCardell, Eric Parker, Ladanian Tomlinson

There's not as big a difference as you imply
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLMR3q4yDk
There's plenty of man in that video

I do not have an exact statistical breakdown of the routes, but you can't say that we run a tremendous amount of routes that take a while to develop. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FADVnOXxBD0)

Please do provide me the video because I rarely saw many inside routes

I'm just regurgitating what Joe is saying

I am pretty sure if that there were no labor issue, then Cam would not be employed by the Ravens right now

[RoflDogs]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1296351497' post='628295']
You know who Brady's QB coach is? Tom O'Brien. Would you like to know who calls offensive plays for the Pats? [size="3"][b]Tom O'Brien[/b][/size].
[/quote]

Bill not Tom

[flynismo]

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1296353057' post='628334']<br />Bill not Tom<br />[/quote]


either way, both are far more accomplished and productive than Cameron. Guys like them should have a lot of control over an offense. Cam..not so much.

[RoflDogs]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1296353639' post='628357']
either way, both are far more accomplished and productive than Cameron. Guys like them should have a lot of control over an offense. Cam..not so much.
[/quote]

The offense was very efficient at using personnel (BJGE, Welker, Branch, Woodhead, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Tate), and they all provided production

[-Truth-]

[quote name='Bullrush' timestamp='1296350562' post='628277']
First of all I never mentioned 2010, so don't put any words in my mouth. Maybe I should have said I didn't include 2010 when talking about our O-Line. But I never said they played great in 2010. It's pretty pointless for you to argue about whether they played well or not in 2010. It doesn't matter.

If Reed goes on IR and Nakamura fills in are you gonna complain about how we need to upgrade the safety position because our safeties didn't perform as well with our key guy not in there? Or do you understand that once Reed returns it'll all be back to normal and there's no issue at safety? Because that's what you're doing right now with our O-Line. We all know they sucked last year, but when you shift the guys back they'll play well, they have and they will. I don't understand what you're arguing about.[/quote]

[quote name='Bullrush' timestamp='1296333869' post='628038']
Besides we never had any O-Line issues or QB issues. Matsko is well respected around the league, and our O-Line looked great in 09/[b]10[/b].
[/quote]

I would assume now that you were referring to a single Season, which you made no point to clear up when 2 people brought it up against you, and you went along with the argument as if there was no misconception. And there I thought taking the time to bold the numbers in the post I was replying to would've given room for clarification. Silly me.

And yes, I will definitely complain. It's not as if Reed had ever begun a Season on IR, so if it does happen, this would be my first chance to make such a suggestion. That was also a perfect example, considering Reed would be the first person I'd move to replace the moment any future health concerns arise. I made this signature out of spite, and am simply waiting on the day he slips up to call for a new FS. I didn't praise the talent that we already have at OL in that very comment. Because I also didn't claim that with Gaither back, we would've been, "incredible," since no one would be playing out of position. No, I could see how I gave that impression, so that's not putting words in my mouth. I guess I could've been more clear. Does super-incredible suffice? Not certain whether that's enough, but I'll take a risk and leave it at that. For that matter, should I have also quoted my own post? Since it was clearly mistaken for somebody else's. I'd like to take a moment to borrow flynismo's sarcasm disclaimer. Don't worry, I'll bring it back in good shape.

[I AM LEGEND]

Oh oh Guys.......



The Organization hurt Joe Flacco's feelings.......



You gonna just let them sit there and do that?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1296352984' post='628332']
I focus on YPA because it's independent from how many times you pass the ball (you said that "Brees handed the ball off to LT a lot more than he does to any RB in New Orleans. [b]Of course his numbers have increased[/b]." which implies that he passed the ball more, so he has better numbers.) I think there isn't a huge difference between 5 years of experience vs 6 years of experience (in a NEW system).

Joe Horn, Devery Henderson, Marques Colston (a rookie), Mark Campbell, Deuce McAllister, Reggie Bush
vs
Antonio Gates, Keenan McCardell, Eric Parker, Ladanian Tomlinson

There's not as big a difference as you imply
There's plenty of man in that video

I do not have an exact statistical breakdown of the routes, but you can't say that we run a tremendous amount of routes that take a while to develop.

Please do provide me the video because I rarely saw many inside routes

I'm just regurgitating what Joe is saying

I am pretty sure if that there were no labor issue, then Cam would not be employed by the Ravens right now
[/quote]

You're right about YPA but was a I wrong to say Brees' stats have increased being in a more pass-happy offense? We can get into semantics but it's no surprise over 50 more attempts and more down-field weapons contributed to his increase production from his last year in SD to his first in NO.

As far experience goes, that Brees played in different systems doesn't mean he was the same player he was in 2005, as he was in 2006. He was coming off shoulder surgery in '06 but he was also a year wiser and playing on a better offensive team.

To you, it isn't. To me, Brees has worked with better skill players and had a better o-line during his time in NO than he did with the Chargers.

They did run a lot of vertical routes but again, I look to Joe rarely pulling the trigger unless a player was wide open and WRs not always working back to him.

So you're just going ignore the fact that Joe completed some passes in that game against zone coverage? I watched every snap of that game and know for a fact the Chiefs played a good amount of zone.

[u][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RozPFAvHRXg"]Boldin looks to be running an inside pattern on this play[/url][/u].

[url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011011500/2010/POST19/ravens@steelers#tab:watch/watch-channels:cat-post-watch-fantasy"][u]The 3rd, 6th and last videos on this page feature WRs running inside routes.[/u][/url]

[u][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FADVnOXxBD0"]Houshmandzadeh runs a slant at 1:26, a WR is running across the middle at 7:22 and Mason went inside at 7:33 of this video.[/url][/u]

In addition, I clearly remember seeing Boldin open going cross the middle in the first quarter of the game and Joe overthrowing Heap inside on his first throw of the last posession.

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1296353057' post='628334']
Bill not Tom
[/quote]

My mistake.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1296353969' post='628364']
The offense was very efficient at using personnel (BJGE, Welker, Branch, Woodhead, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Tate), and they all provided production
[/quote]

It also helps to have an o-line capable in pass protection as well as run-blocking, in addition to arguably the best QB in the game.

[Marc2k6]

Joe Flacco is not happy with the coaching change? Okay, so at the end of the day who is responsible for the Baltimore Raven's making coaching decisions and changes? If the QB coach and the O.C. are going in 2 different directions then there needs to be some type of change and the Raven's have choosen to go with the OC being responsible for the QB of the Baltimore Raven's development. Now the offense will ride on Cam's direction. Joe Flacco liking Jim Zorn is not a good reason to keep him.

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

Do you blame him? It didn't take Joe long to see what we've seen from Cam all year- they fired the wrong guy!

[Ravenmore74]

The same thing that Cam and Rivers were going through in San Diego is happening in Bmore.

[flynismo]

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1296353969' post='628364']<br />The offense was very efficient at using personnel [/quote]


exactly my point. While Cam is here sending Stallworth on end arounds and Mason on streaks, NE was busy running an offense the way it should be by getting everyone involved and using them within their limitations.
People can take the easy way out and brush it off with 'they have Brady', but that would blatantly ignore the fact that we have a more talented-maybe significantly more- offense than they do. Heck, just for the fun of it, lets say we're even in talent. The end result was that we had the #22 offense. The Pats were one of the best in the league. When the talent level is the same, and the strength of schedule was roughly the same, there must be a reason why their offense was so much better. That reason is the system they have in place. They know how to get the most out of their personnel. In contrast, we dont even know how to use one of the fastest players in the league (when we bothered using him at all). They dont call draw plays on third and long. They get the ball to their deep threats. We dont.

[Guest DrVenture45]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1296333087' post='628028']
Well, I understand Joe's reasoning, but I think he is drastically overreacting to the situation when he says he kinda feels like its a rub on him...especially when Zorn officially was fired for insubordination (not performance) and Joe himself says he had a good year.A few things Joe has said leads me to believe he has underlying maturity and/or confidence issues. His reaction after people slammed him for the Cincy game in week 2, this, and reportedly he wasn't benched in ATL because the coaches didnt think he'd react well to it.
[/quote]
Sounds like Joe was both confused and dismayed; on one hand he's had a good season, yet on the other they axe the QB coach? I'm not surprised that Joe is disappointed to see Zorn go. No doubt he's used to Zorn's approach, but I do agree that his comment sounds very disconcerting. There's no shame in my admitting that I'm worried about next season. It would be terrible to have the Cam/Flacco connection blow up in our faces. Personally I think they should have given Flacco more freedom; let him call a few plays, win or lose. Flacco could handle a mistake or two (he'd accept it and move on), but his confidence would be through the roof off the successes.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1296367649' post='628523']
exactly my point. While Cam is here sending Stallworth on end arounds and Mason on streaks, NE was busy running an offense the way it should be by getting everyone involved and using them within their limitations.
People can take the easy way out and brush it off with 'they have Brady', but that would blatantly ignore the fact that we have a more talented-maybe significantly more- offense than they do. Heck, just for the fun of it, lets say we're even in talent. The end result was that we had the #22 offense. The Pats were one of the best in the league. When the talent level is the same, and the strength of schedule was roughly the same, there must be a reason why their offense was so much better. That reason is the system they have in place. They know how to get the most out of their personnel. In contrast, we dont even know how to use one of the fastest players in the league (when we bothered using him at all). They dont call draw plays on third and long. They get the ball to their deep threats. We dont.
[/quote]

NE certainly has a better offensive system but their OL is superior as well.

Their running game averaging .5 more yards per carry than the Ravens' ground attack, gaining more yards on the ground despite 33 less attempts, 8 more rushing TDs and Brady being sacked 15 less times and likely hurried less as well are proof of that.

[Guest DrVenture45]

[quote name='Marc2k6' timestamp='1296357676' post='628450']
Okay, so at the end of the day who is responsible for the Baltimore Raven's making coaching decisions and chanfes? If the QB coach and the O.C. are going in 2 different directions then there needs to be some type of change and the Raven's have choosen to go with the OC being responsible for the QB of the Baltimore Raven's development.[/quote]
I like this comment. Could it be Harbaugh's fault, for giving the coaching staff too much freedom? After all, he is the HC. How is it that a lack of communication even takes place unnoticed?

[noy]

Honestly, why analyze this at all? They seemingly thought his opinion was of little consequence, or saw things differently in terms of the team's future. Either way, the coaching staff and Flacco are at odds, and that isn't a good start to the offseason.

I think an episode of Survivor with Joe and Cam alone on an island is in order. MAKE IT HAPPEN...er...HARBAUGH/CBS!