Joe's Not Happy With Zorn Firing

[K-Dog]

I agree. I dont like the fact that Joe is upset. Ten times over I would rather have Joe on the team than Cam, and I am [i]not[/i] a Cam hatter. (Officially I am quite displeased with Cam, but I still think he has it in him to put together an outstanding offense)(some way some how)

[Ed_Reed20]

Listening to the radio, Aaron Wilson jus said Joe thinks "things will go great" with Cam and is more disappointed that Zorn won't be apart of it.

EDIT: Wilson is also saying Flacco wants more input.

[PuRock]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1296338215' post='628082']
EDIT: Wilson is also saying Flacco wants more input.
[/quote]

As it should be. Let Joe be a part of the gameplan (hell playbook) development. Joe knows best about what he feels comfortable doing, what HE sees and what he thinks might work. He should be a bigger part of it. He's past the young stage of his career, now is the time to step into the next role of being a successful NFL QB. Input as much as you listen.

[purple.n.black]

Idk maybe this will make Joe wanna prove something even more.
Maybe he thought Zorn had a chance to take Cam's job and this just showed him that it won't happen.

[PuRock]

[quote name='purple.n.black' timestamp='1296338604' post='628085']
Idk maybe this will make Joe wanna prove something even more.
[b]Maybe he thought Zorn had a chance to take Cam's job and this just showed him that it won't happen.[/b]
[/quote]

I don't think that's the case. I think Zorn is just a likable guy. He treats the players like their own the same level with him. He's fun. Young players like that. I think he's more upset because he just plainly liked Zorn.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1296338449' post='628084']
As it should be. Let Joe be a part of the gameplan (hell playbook) development. Joe knows best about what he feels comfortable doing, what HE sees and what he thinks might work. He should be a bigger part of it. He's past the young stage of his career, now is the time to step into the next role of being a successful NFL QB. Input as much as you listen.
[/quote]
As nice as that would be I doubt itll happen. Work is Cam is extremely stubborn and arrogant in his playbook.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1296339080' post='628088']
As nice as that would be I doubt itll happen. Work is Cam is extremely stubborn and arrogant in his playbook.
[/quote]

With Harbaugh more involved, Cam would have to relent a little in his control though.

[bdravens]

If there's a bright side to this entire situation, it's that Flacco/Cam have about 5-6 months to work stuff out, and figure out where they stand. It's no fault of Jim Zorn's about how bad our offense was at times this season. They definitely fired the wrong guy, so I'm 100% with Joe on this one.

[PuRock]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1296339080' post='628088']
As nice as that would be I doubt itll happen. Work is Cam is extremely stubborn and arrogant in his playbook.
[/quote]

That's what I've heard as well. But something has to give. I think Cam has gotten use to having young starting QBs around all the time. Brees, Rivers, Cleo Lemon, Beck and Flacco. He hasn't been around starting QBs w/ expierence very much.

It might serve Cam's career well if he becomes the OC or HC at some team that has a QB who's been around. Maybe get some work in with Kerry Collins (wink, wink).

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1296339941' post='628098']
That's what I've heard as well. But something has to give. I think Cam has gotten use to having young starting QBs around all the time. Brees, Rivers, Cleo Lemon, Beck and Flacco. He hasn't been around starting QBs w/ expierence very much.

It might serve Cam's career well if he becomes the OC or HC at some team that has a QB who's been around. Maybe get some work in with Kerry Collins (wink, wink).
[/quote]

I agree that something has to give but we've been waiting for that "give" to come in some form from Cam all season. No go. There is no reason to think it will happen now. It seems like a minimal thing. Now. It could become a very dividing thing down the line. It is not just Joe, other players came out during the season about Cam and his control issues.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='bdravens' timestamp='1296339764' post='628096']
[b]If there's a bright side to this entire situation, it's that Flacco/Cam have about 5-6 months to work stuff out[/b], and figure out where they stand. It's no fault of Jim Zorn's about how bad our offense was at times this season. They definitely fired the wrong guy, so I'm 100% with Joe on this one.
[/quote]

Let's hope the CBA is worked out so the two actually have that long to address their differences and figure out how to work well together.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1296340266' post='628105']
Let's hope the CBA is worked out so the two actually have that long to address their differences and figure out how to work well together.
[/quote]

Not to be a downer really but haven't they had 3 years together? And it's only gotten worse, not better. Cam is a control freak and I don't see that changing any time soon, if at all. I don't see the logic in anyone, especially the HC and the FO, believing that forcing them into closer contact is going to help anything.

We might be served well to actually look into a young QB in the draft for grooming because if Harbaugh doesn't get over his man love for Cam, I see Flacco taking a walk when his contract is up IMO.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1296340180' post='628103']
I agree that something has to give but we've been waiting for that "give" to come in some form from Cam all season. No go. There is no reason to think it will happen now. It seems like a minimal thing. Now. It could become a very dividing thing down the line. It is not just Joe, other players came out during the season about Cam and his control issues.
[/quote]

Cam [i]did[/i] give ground and we saw more crossing routes and shorter routes in general during the post-season. Of course, we also saw the odd all streaks play that went nowhere but the WRs didn't always work back to the ball, the o-line crumbled too quickly on occasions and other times, Joe simply didn't make the right read or throw(which is to be expected by a third-year QB).

[Timusmc26]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1296331533' post='628012']
I think it confirms that now we have not only an unhappy young franchise QB but one who's confidence will now be shaken. Not to mention, I do not see this working out with Cam as the QB coach. This is the first truly poor decision I've seen Harbaugh make but it is a really bad one. Sorry. Dress it up any way you like it. This is Harbaugh putting a personal connection before the organization.

Edit: Before anyone says "Harbaugh doesn't have final say" Bisciotti is not a meddlesome owner. As such, the rest of the FO follows suit. They went to Harbaugh about Cam and he said this or that to defend Cam. This IS a Harbaugh decision.
[/quote]

I talked to Marc Bulger's sister and she showed me a text message that basically said that him and joe really liked zorn and that everyone is starting to loose respect for harbaugh. The locker room takes Ray Lewis as more of a coach then the coaching staff. This is not how a team should be. Our head coach needs to start listening to some of the players and start making smart decisions or he will totally loose everyones respect in that locker room.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1296340563' post='628108']
Not to be a downer really but haven't they had 3 years together? And it's only gotten worse, not better. Cam is a control freak and I don't see that changing any time soon, if at all. I don't see the logic in anyone, especially the HC and the FO, believing that forcing them into closer contact is going to help anything.

We might be served well to actually look into a young QB in the draft for grooming because if Harbaugh doesn't get over his man love for Cam, I see Flacco taking a walk when his contract is up IMO.
[/quote]

What exactly has gotten worse? I know the running game did this season but what has gotten worse?

When people criticize Joe, others rush to his defense by bringing up [i]statistics[/i] as a sign of his growth. Does Cam have nothing to do with that?

Just because Cam's role is increasing doesn't mean he'll have unchecked power. Harbaugh has explicitly said he's getting more involved in the offense. Team insider Aaron Wilson has said it will be to ensure that John gets what he wants out of the offense.

You're free to speculate about Joe's future. People who follow the team have said Cam is playing for his job next year so I don't see how Joe would leave, or [i]how the organization would essentially choose an OC over him[/i].

[darklight1216]

I didn't like the firing and now I like it even less.

I can't remember a time when Flacco seemed more insistent.
[quote]"I don't think it was a good decision, and they know that. I expressed that throughout the whole time it was going on, I expressed how much I didn't think it would be good for us. My opinion isn't going to change.

"I think Jim was a great coach, I think he was great for our team. I think he was great for me. That's how I feel about it."

Flacco denied the existence of communication issues due to Zorn's background in the West Coast offense and offensive coordinator Cam Cameron being a Don Coryell disciple.

"No, not really," Flacco said. "I think Jim was a great coach."[/quote]
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Joe-Flacco-on-Jim-Zorn-firing-Im-not-happy-about-it.html&team=103

[Alexir]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1296339941' post='628098']
That's what I've heard as well. But something has to give. I think Cam has gotten use to having young starting QBs around all the time. [b] Brees, Rivers,[/b] Cleo Lemon, Beck and Flacco. He hasn't been around starting QBs w/ expierence very much.

It might serve Cam's career well if he becomes the OC or HC at some team that has a QB who's been around. Maybe get some work in with Kerry Collins (wink, wink).
[/quote]

Well Brees really didn't turn it on until he was a Saint. Yes he had a great QB rating his 3rd year but he also had Brian Shottenheimer as a QB coach and Phillip Rivers only had one year with Cam, and became the QB he is after Cam left. As for Lemon and Beck, what are they up to now a days? I believe Skins might still have Beck but as for Lemon...Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time.

I dunno, maybe I just hate Cam and think he is overrated? Like i've said before, lets interview Tom Clements or something and boot the most hated man in Baltimore (besides Angelos)

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='Timusmc26' timestamp='1296341050' post='628117']
I talked to Marc Bulger's sister and she showed me a text message that basically said that him and joe really liked zorn and that [b]everyone is starting to loose respect for harbaugh. The locker room takes Ray Lewis as more of a coach then the coaching staff.[/b] This is not how a team should be. Our head coach needs to start listening to some of the players and start making smart decisions or he will totally loose everyones respect in that locker room.
[/quote]
No offense, but since none of us are in the locker room, no matter our personal ties, we have no idea what anyone thinks in there. Any such implications are conjecture and hearsay, not statements of fact.

[Alexir]

[quote name='darklight1216' timestamp='1296341265' post='628120']
I didn't like the firing and now I like it even less.

I can't remember a time when Flacco seemed more insistent.

[url="http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Joe-Flacco-on-Jim-Zorn-firing-Im-not-happy-about-it.html&team=103"]http://www.nationalf...t.html&team=103[/url]
[/quote]

That makes my blood boil....[img]http://ravens.cdn.ipslink.com/public/style_emoticons/default/34853_brickwall.GIF[/img]

We as fans might not see how great Zorn was for Flacco but I mean it just came out of the horse's mouth.

Harbaugh should not of tied his fate with that of Cam's.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1296341395' post='628123']
Well Brees really didn't turn it on until he was a Saint. Yes he had a great QB rating his 3rd year but he also had Brian Shottenheimer as a QB coach and Phillip Rivers only had one year with Cam, and became the QB he is after Cam left. As for Lemon and Beck, what are they up to now a days? I believe Skins might still have Beck but as for Lemon...Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time.

I dunno, maybe I just hate Cam and think he is overrated? Like i've said before, lets interview Tom Clements or something and boot the most hated man in Baltimore (besides Angelos)
[/quote]

Exactly. People keep saying he mentored Brees and Rivers before they became so great. So let's read that again. BEFORE they became great. Why does he get credit for grooming them when there's just as much evidence that he held them down?

Here's the logic:
Brees: Starts with Cam, then becomes great
Rivers: Starts with Cam, then becomes great
Flacco: Starts with Cam... let's keep 'im around!

[purple.n.black]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1296338765' post='628086']
I don't think that's the case. I think Zorn is just a likable guy. He treats the players like their own the same level with him. He's fun. Young players like that. I think he's more upset because he just plainly liked Zorn.
[/quote]
That may be the case. But I think if he just liked Zorn, he would be upset but remain quiet about it. I think how strongly he spoke out about it expresses that there is more than just Joe liking a guy that was only with the team for one season.

[RoflDogs]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1296340732' post='628114']
[b]Cam [i]did[/i] give ground and we saw more crossing routes and shorter routes in general during the post-season[/b]. Of course, we also saw the odd all streaks play that went nowhere but the WRs didn't always work back to the ball, the o-line crumbled too quickly on occasions and other times, Joe simply didn't make the right read or throw(which is to be expected by a third-year QB).
[/quote]

We saw a lot of them in the Chiefs game, but not as much in the Steelers game. Hue Jackson's tips are the only reasons why Cam ran them imo

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1296340732' post='628114']
[b]Cam [i]did[/i] give ground and we saw more crossing routes and shorter routes in general during the post-season.[/b] Of course, we also saw the odd all streaks play that went nowhere but the WRs didn't always work back to the ball, the o-line crumbled too quickly on occasions and other times, Joe simply didn't make the right read or throw(which is to be expected by a third-year QB).
[/quote]

One game. Where he reportedly called up Hue and asked specifically what worked against the Chiefs. One game. Where it is likely the plays came from someone else. ONE game because he certainly (other than the first drive) did not incorporate them in the game against the Steelers.

No one is saying that there weren't execution issues at times nor that the O line wasn't weak this season but really, the man's play calling was predictable and that's putting it mildly. Plus, perhaps my biggest issue, was his absolute refusal to adjust his offensive scheme to incorporate the talent on the team, account for a weak O line and play to the strengths of his players.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1296341072' post='628118']
[b]What exactly has gotten worse? I know the running game did this season but what has gotten worse?[/b]

When people criticize Joe, others rush to his defense by bringing up [i]statistics[/i] as a sign of his growth. Does Cam have nothing to do with that?

Just because Cam's role is increasing doesn't mean he'll have unchecked power. Harbaugh has explicitly said he's getting more involved in the offense. Team insider Aaron Wilson has said it will be to ensure that John gets what he wants out of the offense.

You're free to speculate about Joe's future. People who follow the team have said Cam is playing for his job next year so I don't see how Joe would leave, or [i]how the organization would essentially choose an OC over him[/i].
[/quote]
Scoring? 357 in 2010, 391 in 2009, and 385 in '08.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='Bullrush' timestamp='1296334536' post='628045']
Did you expect them to actually play well? Oher is not a LT. Yanda is not a RT. Chester is not a RG. You move Gaither back to LT, Oher back to RT, Yanda back to RG and Chester back to the bench and then you'll see how great this O-Line can be. And moving Gaither to RT even after he lost all that weight was another boneheaded decision by Cam.
[/quote]
Did I actually argue the potential of the OL, or your assessment of their actual performance? I'm well aware of the talent that we have up front. Did they perform well given their situation? More-so than not, yes. Could they have been incredible if Gaither wasn't a scratch, allowing them the privilege of avoiding playing out of position? Without a doubt. But we wouldn't be addressing the run game as our first priority if they were never an issue this year. Your statement wasn't inquisitive about how well they would've achieved if our lineup was similar to the 2009 one. You said they were great in 2010. And they weren't. Simple as that.

[RoflDogs]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1296341560' post='628127']
That makes my blood boil....[img]http://ravens.cdn.ipslink.com/public/style_emoticons/default/34853_brickwall.GIF[/img]

We as fans might not see how great Zorn was for Flacco but I mean it just came out of the horse's mouth.

Harbaugh should not of tied his fate with that of Cam's.
[/quote]

[quote name='Flacco'] I'm not going to be happy about it, for a long time[/quote]

That tells you something right there

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1296341072' post='628118']
What exactly has gotten worse? I know the running game did this season but what has gotten worse?

When people criticize Joe, others rush to his defense by bringing up [i]statistics[/i] as a sign of his growth. Does Cam have nothing to do with that?

Just because Cam's role is increasing doesn't mean he'll have unchecked power. Harbaugh has explicitly said he's getting more involved in the offense. Team insider Aaron Wilson has said it will be to ensure that John gets what he wants out of the offense.

You're free to speculate about Joe's future. People who follow the team have said Cam is playing for his job next year so I don't see how Joe would leave, or [i]how the organization would essentially choose an OC over him[/i].
[/quote]

I was referring to the chemistry between Cam and Joe. It was in response to the post saying they had 5-6 months to work out their differences. That situation has only gotten worse, this past season especially.

Yep, he said he'd be more involved but he also said "CAM drives that." This isn't about what I or any other fans think really. Players on the team came out during the season about Cam's play calling and his control issues in regards to Joe. Harbaugh's answer to that is to give him even more control? Even with the CBA issues, it makes no sense to give him more power when one of the issues the players had with him were that he did not value player input and wants it all his way.

[berad]

We'll see if we're talking about any of this crap in October. Stupid offseason.

[neoi78]

by profootballtalk.com

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/29/flacco-sounds-off-on-firing-of-zorn/

[Timusmc26]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1296341431' post='628125']
No offense, but since none of us are in the locker room, no matter our personal ties, we have no idea what anyone thinks in there. Any such implications are conjecture and hearsay, not statements of fact.
[/quote]

Well how ever way you look at it there is issues in the locker room and it needs to be resolved.