Teryl Austin - Secondary Coach

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1297133253' post='635321']
But what of the ones who did play Football, as well as other contact sports, for a prolonged period of time? I won't defend myself because as you've stated, this wasn't a personal attack, but who's to say that people on here have no experience in sports or sacrificing for their teams?
[/quote]
You know what we should have made a new topic just about Landry and Zibby. My badd i just looked at the topic and was like where is all this Zibby, Landry talk coming from. Tired of the argument- discussion, we just agree to disagree. Oh and im sure just about everyone here has played the game in some form or fashion. I was just referring to the few guys that all ways have negative things to say about other people opinions. Not you sorry.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1297102218' post='634811']
You are unreal, we're talking about two players basic athleticism compared to each other. Not their production levels/talent. Prime example, you can find safeties who are as athletic as Ed Reed its actually not too hard to find safeties with Eds basic athleticism. You cannot however find safeties with Ed's particular talents. This is two different aspects.

We were talking about a players natural athleticism, the times that I posted are measures of a players natural athleticism, speed, strength, change of direction, acceleration are all measures of ATHLETICISM.

We know Landry is a pretty good SS in his own right, what alot of people want on this board is someone who can make 80 tackles in a year and have more than 1 INT and 4 PD. You know actually make a difference in pass coverages. But continue to make this argument about something totally different.
[/quote]
Im not looking this up- but didn't he tie Foxworth in picks in 09 and had like 5-6 his rookie year. How many picks would you like him to have coming off the scariest injury in football?...Just curious So your conceding the fact that Landry has more talent than Zibby but Zibby is a better athlete. Wow! Not really sure i can follow that one, because the better athlete should always get on the field especially since zibby has all that athleticism and a high football IQ.....scatching my head at why the coaches don't put him in......Things that make you go HMMMMMMMMM.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1297154295' post='635518']
,


that's exactly right...there are probably 5 or 6 safeties in this draft alone that would be an upgrade over Landry, but we are much weaker in other areas.

However, I'm crossing my fingers and hoping we can snag Mark Barron in the 4th. That's late enough to address bigger needs, and still land a guy that I think would run away with the starting job by the end of his rookie season.
,,,,,,,,
[/quote]

No, there would be a few safeties that would be an upgrade once they've been in the system a few years and have hit their prime, but if you want to win now you have to stay with Landry.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1297186033' post='635664']
No, there would be a few safeties that would be an upgrade once they've been in the system a few years and have hit their prime, but [b]if you want to win now you have to stay with Landry.[/b]
[/quote]

So, trying to find a replacement with more foot speed or that is simply better in coverage would hurt this team's chances of winning?

[-Truth-]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1297156611' post='635522']
You know what we should have made a new topic just about Landry and Zibby. My badd i just looked at the topic and was like where is all this Zibby, Landry talk coming from. Tired of the argument- discussion, we just agree to disagree. Oh and im sure just about everyone here has played the game in some form or fashion. I was just referring to the few guys that all ways have negative things to say about other people opinions. Not you sorry.
[/quote]
Fair enough. I'm not sure if the last part was somewhat sarcastic since I was rude and disrespectful towards your opinion though, which was uncalled for on my part. Either way, I'll respect the fact that everybody should and will have their own perception.

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1297155791' post='635520']
New quarterback, More experienced running back and one of the best young crop of receivers out there. Not to mention a head coach that our coordinator had to contact to get plays from before the Kansas city game. Raiders= much improved.
[/quote]
I'm definitely not saying that they didn't improve. They absolutely did, and I commend them for it. This was probably their best Offseason in several years, but Al Davis has made several beyond questionable decisions Draft wise and FA wise in recent memory. I was in favor of Hue Jackson taking over as HC after Cable was gone, but my thoughts initially were that firing your current HC after taking a step forward might send a negative message through the locker room, especially since he seemed to have been generally approved of amongst players. Personally, I don't think the Raiders will move into the next tier until Davis retires.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1297157163' post='635524']
Im not looking this up- but didn't he tie Foxworth in picks in 09 and had like 5-6 his rookie year. How many picks would you like him to have coming off the scariest injury in football?...Just curious So your conceding the fact that Landry has more talent than Zibby but Zibby is a better athlete. Wow! Not really sure i can follow that one, because the better athlete should always get on the field especially since zibby has all that athleticism and a high football IQ.....scatching my head at why the coaches don't put him in......Things that make you go HMMMMMMMMM.
[/quote]
I dont remember saying Z had more football IQ than Landry, Landry is actually a pretty smart player knowing his assignments and not botching coverages. He doesn't however make any plays within his assignment with breaking up passes or staying on top of routes. I never said Landry had more talent than Z, I was using Ed Reed as an example that athleticism doesn't trump intangible talents. Landry came off a scary injury in 2009, its been 2 years, and that doesn't affect his coverages, if anything it affects his tackling and nightmares he has at night of Jamal Lewis. Landry had 5 picks in 06. Then he had 0 in 07, missed all of 08, had 4 in 09, then had 0 this year. Cleary Landry is not a reliable coverage safety.

Once again, Z is a better athlete than Landry is. And thats what this whole thing was about.

[flynismo]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1297186033' post='635664']<br />No, there would be a few safeties that would be an upgrade once they've been in the system a few years and have hit their prime, but if you want to win now you have to stay with Landry.<br />[/quote]

landry's best season in the NFL came as a rookie. No reason why a rookie cant outdo what we've seen from Landry in recent years.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1297193677' post='635761']
I dont remember saying Z had more football IQ than Landry, Landry is actually a pretty smart player knowing his assignments and not botching coverages. He doesn't however make any plays within his assignment with breaking up passes or staying on top of routes. I never said Landry had more talent than Z, I was using Ed Reed as an example that athleticism doesn't trump intangible talents. Landry came off a scary injury in 2009, its been 2 years, and that doesn't affect his coverages, if anything it affects his tackling and nightmares he has at night of Jamal Lewis. Landry had 5 picks in 06. Then he had 0 in 07, missed all of 08, had 4 in 09, then had 0 this year. Cleary Landry is not a reliable coverage safety.

Once again, Z is a better athlete than Landry is. And thats what this whole thing was about.
[/quote]
He did have 1 against the Chiefs. Just a slight correction.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1297186522' post='635673']
So, trying to find a replacement with more foot speed or that is simply better in coverage would hurt this team's chances of winning?
[/quote]

Trying to find doesn't mean finding. Did I say Landry was a HOFer? I said trying to find an upgrade for Landry would be ridiculous when we have so many other areas of concern.

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1297195993' post='635791']
landry's best season in the NFL came as a rookie. No reason why a rookie cant outdo what we've seen from Landry in recent years.
[/quote]

Landry's best year was in '09. The TEAM's best defense was when he was a rookie.

Do you not understand why shuffling around players in the backfield is a bad idea? Guys that have played together have chemistry which is extremely important in a secondary. Anyone else has zero experience playing with our guys.

Here's a video involving him from NFL.com that was in the Dawan Landry thread last month, just as a reminder. [url="http://www.nfl.com/videos/baltimore-ravens/09000d5d81d82282/Playbook-Ravens-vs-Chiefs-preview"]link[/url]

[Bltravens]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1297199142' post='635850']
He did have 1 against the Chiefs. Just a slight correction.
[/quote]
Playoff game though, I was citing regular season stats only.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1297200466' post='635878']
Trying to find doesn't mean finding. Did I say Landry was a HOFer? I said trying to find an upgrade for Landry would be ridiculous when we have so many other areas of concern.



[b]Landry's best year was in '09[/b]. The TEAM's best defense was when he was a rookie.

Do you not understand why shuffling around players in the backfield is a bad idea? Guys that have played together have chemistry which is extremely important in a secondary. Anyone else has zero experience playing with our guys.

Here's a video involving him from NFL.com that was in the Dawan Landry thread last month, just as a reminder. [url="http://www.nfl.com/videos/baltimore-ravens/09000d5d81d82282/Playbook-Ravens-vs-Chiefs-preview"]link[/url]
[/quote]
I'd have to strongly disagree. I remember posting a link about Defensive statistics in a discussion about him last year, which showed that he gave up the 3rd most yards among all Safeties in the entire league. Stat wise, 3 of his INTs came off of tipped passes and another was given as a gift by Philip Rivers, who was trying to throw the ball to the ground while taking contact and simply didn't see him.

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1297200869' post='635886']
Playoff game though, I was citing regular season stats only.
[/quote]
Ah, I see. My mistake.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1297200466' post='635878']
Trying to find doesn't mean finding. Did I say Landry was a HOFer? I said trying to find an upgrade for Landry would be ridiculous when we have so many other areas of concern.
[/quote]

I don't think it'd be that hard to find a safety more adept in coverage than Landry this year. You say it'd be "ridiculous" considering all the team's needs. A pass rusher of some kind, WR, ILB and the o-line seem to be the most pressing of them. What if Gaither and Yanda are re-signed before the draft? That would at the very least negate the need to draft a tackle and guard early, leaving room to draft a safety in either a mid or late round.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1297203138' post='635954']
I don't think it'd be that hard to find a safety more adept in coverage than Landry this year. You say it'd be "ridiculous" considering all the team's needs. A pass rusher of some kind, WR, ILB and the o-line seem to be the most pressing of them. What if Gaither and Yanda are re-signed before the draft? That would at the very least negate the need to draft a tackle and guard early, leaving room to draft a safety in either a mid or late round.
[/quote]

We'll still need solid backups for the O-line, possibly CB or WR because we can't keep everybody. Plus we usually draft BPA (which I agree with) so filling in for a quality starter doesn't make sense. Landry can cover, just not deep routes. I can't think of a reason why we'd need him to do that with Ed on the team. We have other players if need be.

So unless you think there's an incredible prospect in the mid rounds that can cover and stop the run better than Landry, there's no reason to upgrade.

[Free Agent]

Teryl Austin led the Cardinals and the Seahawks DBs to the Superbowl! Imagine what he could do with some talent!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1297204677' post='635998']
We'll still need solid backups for the O-line, possibly CB or WR because we can't keep everybody. Plus we usually draft BPA (which I agree with) so filling in for a quality starter doesn't make sense. Landry can cover, just not deep routes. I can't think of a reason why we'd need him to do that with Ed on the team. We have other players if need be.

So unless you think there's an incredible prospect in the mid rounds that can cover and stop the run better than Landry, there's no reason to upgrade.
[/quote]

Harewood is under contract and Chester and Cousins can both be re-signed for cheap. To me, if Gaither and Yanda are re-signed, center would theoretically be the only position really in need of depth.

I forgot to mention CB but that depends on whether both Wilson and Carr return -- I doubt they do.

Ed is slowing down and can't be everywhere all the time. We all saw him unable to get over the top in time against the Bills and he was a step slow against the Texans.

Ideally, the team doesn't want Landry in deep coverage but on occasions when they run a Cover 2 or the formation calls for Landry to be deep, he's a liability. Look at what happened against the Broncos right before the half or on 3rd and a mile in the play-off game in Pittsburgh.

A prospect who could step in and be better than Landry wouldn't necessarily have to be [i]incredible[/i].

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1297205937' post='636023']
Harewood is under contract and Chester and Cousins can both be re-signed for cheap. To me, if Gaither and Yanda are re-signed, center would theoretically be the only position really in need of depth.

I forgot to mention CB but that depends on whether both Wilson and Carr return -- I doubt they do.

Ed is slowing down and can't be everywhere all the time. We all saw him unable to get over the top in time against the Bills and he was a step slow against the Texans.

Ideally, the team doesn't want Landry in deep coverage but on occasions when they run a Cover 2 or the formation calls for Landry to be deep, he's a liability. Look at what happened against the Broncos right before the half or on 3rd and a mile in the play-off game in Pittsburgh.

A prospect who could step in and be better than Landry wouldn't necessarily have to be [i]incredible[/i].
[/quote]

Well Ed was coming back off his injury against the Bills and you could see he was still hurting that game. I won't hold that against him. But to me the lack of pressure was the biggest concern. You must know how I feel about the 3-man rush by now and when we do that, we're sending Landry into the backfield. I don't think Pagano will do that and if anyone knows Landry's talents, it's him.

No position is a position we can't improve, I just think it's picking on Landry to assume we need to look at SS in the draft in particular. Saying SS is a need doesn't make sense to me. If you want better cover guys, get better CBs.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1297206390' post='636045']
Well Ed was coming back off his injury against the Bills and you could see he was still hurting that game. I won't hold that against him. But to me the lack of pressure was the biggest concern. You must know how I feel about the 3-man rush by now and when we do that, we're sending Landry into the backfield. I don't think Pagano will do that and if anyone knows Landry's talents, it's him.

No position is a position we can't improve, I just think it's picking on Landry to assume we need to look at SS in the draft in particular. Saying SS is a need doesn't make sense to me. If you want better cover guys, get better CBs.
[/quote]

Yes, Ed was pretty banged up at the time but it doesn't change the fact he's declining physically and isn't everywhere, all the time. There will be times when he can't because the ball is thrown to Landry's side(like we saw against the Steelers) and Dawan just doesn't make the play often.

I do agree more pressure would help though.

I'm not [i]picking[/i] on anyone by thinking the Ravens could find a better player. As for your last sentence, are safeties never in coverage? Because that's what you're implying.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1297206892' post='636057']
I'm not [i]picking[/i] on anyone by thinking the Ravens could find a better player. As for your last sentence, are safeties never in coverage? Because that's what you're implying.
[/quote]

Why does the need for a new SS outweigh the need for a new CB if coverage is the issue? If we go BPA and the best player out there is a SS better than Dawan, fine. That doesn't mean there's a need to improve and that's all I'm saying.

Dawan does go into coverage, but he can cover TEs. He can cover RBs. He shouldn't be in DEEP coverage to have to help out our cornerbacks.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1297207172' post='636064']
Why does the need for a new SS outweigh the need for a new CB if coverage is the issue? If we go BPA and the best player out there is a SS better than Dawan, fine. That doesn't mean there's a need to improve and that's all I'm saying.

Dawan does go into coverage, but he can cover TEs. He can cover RBs. He shouldn't be in DEEP coverage to have to help out our cornerbacks.
[/quote]

When have I ever said a new SS is more important than a CB? If Wilson and Carr re-signed though, the team would be able to focus on drafting a SS mid-draft or late.

Why shouldn't he be in deep coverage to help corners? That's part of his job description as safety. There are times when TEs aren't on the field and RBs aren't running routes. Again, there are times when the D runs a Cover 2. How does Landry help the team then?

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1297207760' post='636073']
When have I ever said a new SS is more important than a CB? If Wilson and Carr re-signed though, the team would be able to focus on drafting a SS mid-draft or late.

Why shouldn't he be in deep coverage to help corners? That's part of his job description as safety. There are times when TEs aren't on the field and RBs aren't running routes. Again, there are times when the D runs a Cover 2. How does Landry help the team then?
[/quote]

You mean why shouldn't it be his job to do everything? Because he's a strong safety and not a free safety. Landry has talents and he has weaknesses. We can play him so that we're focusing on his talents. Asking for a guy as good as him in run support and also good at coverage is asking for an immediate Pro Bowler.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1297211002' post='636122']
You mean why shouldn't it be his job to do everything? Because he's a strong safety and not a free safety. Landry has talents and he has weaknesses. We can play him so that we're focusing on his talents. Asking for a guy as good as him in run support and also good at coverage is asking for an immediate Pro Bowler.
[/quote]
Not necessarily, we're extremely limited in what we can do with him on 3rd downs and he therefore stunts the coverages we can run.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1297211002' post='636122']
You mean why shouldn't it be his job to do everything? Because he's a strong safety and not a free safety. Landry has talents and he has weaknesses. We can play him so that we're focusing on his talents. Asking for a guy as good as him in run support and also good at coverage is asking for an immediate Pro Bowler.
[/quote]

You're just being unreasonable now. Just because he's a strong safety doesn't he doesn't or shouldn't be able to play deep coverage. All players have their weaknesses but for the dozenth time, his weakness make him a serious liability in today's league.

I couldn't disagree more with your final sentence. There are a number of safeties around the league just as good, if not better than Dawan in run support and they do more in coverage.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1297211206' post='636126']
Not necessarily, we're extremely limited in what we can do with him on 3rd downs and he therefore stunts the coverages we can run.
[/quote]

How so? Do we have a coverage we'd like to run where he's one-on-one with a deep-route guy?

I understand using him in cover-2. But if you're talking about him as a liability IN DOUBLE COVERAGE, by replacing him with a better cover SS you're only getting half the benefit.

If covering was a real issue, we'd probably have replaced him with Nakamura by now, at least on 3rd downs. But his other skills seem to outweigh that.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1297211595' post='636132']
You're just being unreasonable now. Just because he's a strong safety doesn't he doesn't or shouldn't be able to play deep coverage. All players have their weaknesses but for the dozenth time, his weakness make him a serious liability in today's league.

I couldn't disagree more with your final sentence. There are a number of safeties around the league just as good, if not better than Dawan in run support and they do more in coverage.
[/quote]

I don't have enough time to study every SS in the game but I can tell you what the stats are telling me.

Landry was 3rd among SS in tackles. Unless you can prove me wrong, I'm assuming most of those tackles come in the run game since that's the nature of the position.
That would be remarkable considering we were the third least rushed-upon team in the league with 384 attempts all year. The two SS with more tackles were Whitner and Ward, whose teams were run against more than 500 times. It would mean Landry makes more tackles per run attempt than any SS in the game.

Here's some more stats: [url="http://wp.advancednflstats.com/defenderstats.php?year=2010&pos=S&season=reg"]link[/url] It's advancednflstats.com. I don't know if you're familiar with them so I'll explain just in case.

Here you can see how Landry ranks (among all safeties) in what advanced stats calls "WPA" and "EPA", their measure of effectiveness that is more real than just tackles and INTs. (Each play is measured by how more likely the team is to win the game). Landry is ranked consistently high among SS, particularly in the playoffs where he is #1 in positive EPA and #2 in positive WPA. Only Berry, who had a monster game against us, is ranked higher in the playoffs.


If you don't like stats (I hate you ) but if you don't, we can go on speculating with exactly how valuable he is even in today's game.

[flynismo]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1297204677' post='635998']So unless you think there's an incredible prospect in the mid rounds that can cover and stop the run better than Landry, there's no reason to upgrade.<br />[/quote]


I'm not sure why we're debating then. I said Mark Barron could very well prove to be better than Landry, and he will probably go in the 4th round.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1297214670' post='636166']
I'm not sure why we're debating then. I said Mark Barron could very well prove to be better than Landry, and he will probably go in the 4th round.
[/quote]

Because it's the offseason and there's nothing better to do.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1297214188' post='636160']
I don't have enough time to study every SS in the game but I can tell you what the stats are telling me.

Landry was 3rd among SS in tackles. Unless you can prove me wrong, I'm assuming most of those tackles come in the run game since that's the nature of the position.
That would be remarkable considering we were the third least rushed-upon team in the league with 384 attempts all year. The two SS with more tackles were Whitner and Ward, whose teams were run against more than 500 times. It would mean Landry makes more tackles per run attempt than any SS in the game.

Here's some more stats: [url="http://wp.advancednflstats.com/defenderstats.php?year=2010&pos=S&season=reg"]link[/url] It's advancednflstats.com. I don't know if you're familiar with them so I'll explain just in case.

Here you can see how Landry ranks (among all safeties) in what advanced stats calls "WPA" and "EPA", their measure of effectiveness that is more real than just tackles and INTs. (Each play is measured by how more likely the team is to win the game). Landry is ranked consistently high among SS, particularly in the playoffs where he is #1 in positive EPA and #2 in positive WPA. Only Berry, who had a monster game against us, is ranked higher in the playoffs.


If you don't like stats (I hate you ) but if you don't, we can go on speculating with exactly how valuable he is even in today's game.
[/quote]

I don't dislike statistics but I don't like basing an argument entirely around them either. Highlighting how productive a tackler Landry only makes his whiffs, especially the ones that directly led to touchdowns against the Falcons and Patriots, more glaring.

In terms of the website you provided, a poster and one of the site contributors pointed out the statistic is somewhat flawed and "sensitive to the score and time in a game". I'm not sure how they compile their stats. Regardless, I've watched Landry for a while now and no vague metric can change my opinion of him much.

If the team feels like they can do better, they'll draft a SS and let Dawan walk. We can argue till kingdom come but we'll see how things shake out.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1297216004' post='636188']
I don't dislike statistics but I don't like basing an argument entirely around them either. Highlighting how productive a tackler Landry only makes his whiffs, especially the ones that directly led to touchdowns against the Falcons and Patriots, more glaring.

In terms of the website you provided, a poster and one of the site contributors pointed out the statistic is somewhat flawed and "sensitive to the score and time in a game". I'm not sure how they compile their stats. Regardless, I've watched Landry for a while now and no vague metric can change my opinion of him much.

If the team feels like they can do better, they'll draft a SS and let Dawan walk. We can argue till kingdom come but we'll see how things shake out.
[/quote]

Good debate, good debate. Our common ground is I guess we can agree to draft a replacement if the team truly feels he is all-around better. I'm just skeptical that will happen.

Just let me point out that "the score and time of game" is what got Polamalu the DPOY. Aren't we all a little biased?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1297216198' post='636192']
Good debate, good debate. Our common ground is I guess we can agree to draft a replacement if the team truly feels he is all-around better. I'm just skeptical that will happen.

Just let me point out that "the score and time of game" is what got Polamalu the DPOY. Aren't we all a little biased?
[/quote]

Agreed on both counts. Good thing Troy didn't come through when it mattered most.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1297211595' post='636132']
You're just being unreasonable now. Just because he's a strong safety doesn't he doesn't or shouldn't be able to play deep coverage. All players have their weaknesses but for the dozenth time, his weakness make him a serious liability in today's league.

I couldn't disagree more with your final sentence. There are a number of safeties around the league just as good, if not better than Dawan in run support and they do more in coverage.
[/quote]
I was actually about to type up the same response, so I might as well just quote yours. Covering deep is a responsibility all Safeties are expected to encounter. There were several teams who are converted former FSs and CBs in order to add better range and cover skills to this position. Brandon Meriweather and Reggie Nelson both switched from FS. Charles Godfrey was drafted as a CB and is now a SS. Granted this was likely due to the injury to Jim Leonard, but Dwight Lowery was converted from CB as well. Teams are adjusting with the times, player to fit schemes. And Landry is a liability in coverage. Is this said to undermine his other strengths such as his football IQ and tackling abilities? Definitely not. But does his inconsistency in this department limit our Defensive schemes? The answer is a plain and simple yes. If we do choose to look for another SS who is better in coverage but isn't as solid in run support, the drop off in this area won't be as significant. Both Safeties typically have 7 players in front of them to at least attempt to wrap up the ball carrier. The same can't be said support wise about stopping the pass. Landry has as many tackles because we're forced to adjust the scheme to the player, since the same can't be done effectively vice versa given what his strengths and weaknesses are. Unfortunately, we won't know what we'll be missing until after he's gone, and what we are missing until he's no longer with us.

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1297216004' post='636188']
Highlighting how productive a tackler Landry only makes his whiffs, especially the ones that directly led to touchdowns against the Falcons and Patriots [b][and Steelers][/b], more glaring.
[/quote]