Teryl Austin - Secondary Coach

[Bltravens]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1296940356' post='632964']
No, thats not Rasta. Even he knows better than to point to how many tackles Landry has as evidence that he is a better ATHLETE than Zibby.I have an idea...the message board should give out free handguns and booze, and let natural selection run its course.
[/quote]
lol just the booze, fists and rocks will decide natural selection lol

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1296892056' post='632750']
I'm sorry. I was under the impression that Nakamura was never a part of my argument, although he must've been, since you've taken the liberty of mentioning him twice. Potential also involves having a football IQ, since pure athleticism is only a part of the definition. Countless players have stated that Landry's football knowledge is among the best in the secondary. I would assume that having knowledge of his assignment during every play might kind of, somewhat contribute to production, no? No, not at all. Apparently Landry does it all with his blazing speed and brute strength. So you know what? You're right. There isn't the slightest possibility that Ray Lewis, Anquan Boldin and Eric DeCosta could possibly have a better idea than a mere individual fan. With multiple people asking you to showcase a single argument that illustrates Landry's apparent spectacular athletic abilities, you still end up throwing statistics into the mix. Let's make things a little easier.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/athlete

"A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports."

I wonder whether the Combine may test on any of the above. Apparently not, since tests that specifically designed to analyze strength, agility and speed actually manage to measure none of the above. Amazing. As a matter of fact, I'm midway through typing up a letter to all of the future combine participants, urging them not to fly out to Indianapolis. Tell me, are you planning to write a book on your well researched findings in the near future? I am in dire need of something to prop up my coffee table.
[/quote]Let me start this off by saying this is not a personal attack. Some of you guys are very well at posting comments filled with stats, combine times, Knowledge of the players collegiate history etc..... But you don't seem to be very good at evaluating talent. It sometimes takes people that have played the game to do this. So if i need a reference on the character of a player, or personal info I will contact you. But trust me on this, if you need someone to tell you about talent im your guy. Disrespectful post are laughable.smdh Here is one better though. Actually play football, play it until you bleed in a game. Give everything you have until there is none left, and then do it for the better part of your life. Then maybe you'll understand the game as well as players and ex players do.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1296892924' post='632751']
The hole gets deeper...

Haruki has done nothing but shine on special teams since the team drafted him. Mike Preston raved about his tenacity as a gunner in a column and on the radio the day after the second Browns game.

Regarding Gooden, you're in denial. The man has done next to nothing in three years but make a few plays in pre-season and delivered one or two big hits on special teams. Ask yourself why Jameel and Ellerbe, despite being undrafted and having flaws of their own have made impact plays in their time here while Gooden hasn't.
[/quote]
Special teams.....really!!!! Standout lmao

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1296789816' post='632005']
Since when does being the best athlete equal automatic production? Assessing a player's physical ability revolves around numbers, not statistics, i.e. the Al Davis School of Thought. Is every solid NFL player an amazing athlete? No. And who mentioned anything about lacking respect for what he's gone through?
[/quote]
Al Davis and his team, may be closer to finding what works than we are. Alot of it is because we have such knowledgeable fans that know so much, yet so little about the game.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1296940356' post='632964']
No, thats not Rasta. Even he knows better than to point to how many tackles Landry has as evidence that he is a better ATHLETE than Zibby.I have an idea...the message board should give out free handguns and booze, and let natural selection run its course.
[/quote]
Funny the evidence is on the field. I didn't think i had to say anything. Zibby is a career backup in the NFL.

[Clutch Ravens]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1297098896' post='634751']
Let me start this off by saying this is not a personal attack. Some of you guys are very well at posting comments filled with stats, combine times, Knowledge of the players collegiate history etc..... But you don't seem to be very good at evaluating talent. It sometimes takes people that have played the game to do this. So if i need a reference on the character of a player, or personal info I will contact you. But trust me on this, if you need someone to tell you about talent im your guy. Disrespectful post are laughable.smdh Here is one better though. Actually play football, play it until you bleed in a game. Give everything you have until there is none left, and then do it for the better part of your life. Then maybe you'll understand the game as well as players and ex players do.
[/quote]

So, we all know nothing about talent, but you do?

The opinion you have of your own evaluation talents is rediculously inflated. I have played football until I've bled, but I don't think I know any more than anyone else just because I've played and still do.

You say "Disrespectful posts are laughable." then go ahead and disrespect people by saying you think you're the only one capable of talent evaluation?!

Oh, and to keep it on topic, I love the fact we've added Teryl Austin as our Cornerback coach.

[berad]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1297098896' post='634751']
Let me start this off by saying this is not a personal attack. Some of you guys are very well at posting comments filled with stats, combine times, Knowledge of the players collegiate history etc..... But you don't seem to be very good at evaluating talent. It sometimes takes people that have played the game to do this. So if i need a reference on the character of a player, or personal info I will contact you. But trust me on this, if you need someone to tell you about talent im your guy. Disrespectful post are laughable.smdh Here is one better though. [b]Actually play football, play it until you bleed in a game. Give everything you have until there is none left, and then do it for the better part of your life. Then maybe you'll understand the game as well as players and ex players do.[/b]
[/quote]

Matt Millen was a Pro Bowl linebacker, doesn't mean he's good at evaluating talent.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1297099119' post='634756']
Special teams.....really!!!! Standout lmao
[/quote]

I don't see what's funny about making plays on special teams. In your ever-expanding knowledge of the game, do you not know special teams is important? You've claimed to have experience as an undrafted FA. Did you expect to make a pro team by not playing special teams?

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1297099425' post='634760']
Al Davis and his team, may be closer to finding what works than we are. Alot of it is because we have such knowledgeable fans that know so much, yet so little about the game.
[/quote]



That you can take shots at other members and make this statement is pretty pathetic.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1296891184' post='632746']
Potential is a word for people who haven't done crap yet -- perfect description of Gooden. Look, I thought the guy was going to be a faster version of Bart Scott. I have no problem admitting that I was waaaayy wrong about that. Dude prob isn't ever going to amount to anything, even on ST. If any of the young bucks get any playing time at any of the LB spots, including ILB, it should be Kruger.Landry...he's okay. In a perfect world, we will be drafting a safety who will make the Landry vs Zibby debate moot.BTW, Zibby is 100x the athlete Landry is.
[/quote]
Zibby's athleticism doesn't translate to the football field. What exactly is he good at? Let me guess being a good teammate, being in the right spot but never making a play.Cmon man. Carrying all this dead weight i would retire if i was Ray Lewis. Kruger is a career backup that has potential, used in your definition of the word of course.

[berad]

[color="#8B0000"][b]MOD NOTE:[/b][/color] We're not doing personal attacks - address the post, not the poster.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1297099900' post='634763']
Matt Millen was a Pro Bowl linebacker, doesn't mean he's good at evaluating talent.
[/quote]
i guarantee that means he can tell you that there should be no comparison between Zibby and Landry though.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1297098896' post='634751']
Let me start this off by saying this is not a personal attack. Some of you guys are very well at posting comments filled with stats, combine times, Knowledge of the players collegiate history etc..... But you don't seem to be very good at evaluating talent. It sometimes takes people that have played the game to do this. So if i need a reference on the character of a player, or personal info I will contact you. But trust me on this, if you need someone to tell you about talent im your guy. Disrespectful post are laughable.smdh Here is one better though. Actually play football, play it until you bleed in a game. Give everything you have until there is none left, and then do it for the better part of your life. Then maybe you'll understand the game as well as players and ex players do.
[/quote]
You are unreal, we're talking about two players basic athleticism compared to each other. Not their production levels/talent. Prime example, you can find safeties who are as athletic as Ed Reed its actually not too hard to find safeties with Eds basic athleticism. You cannot however find safeties with Ed's particular talents. This is two different aspects.

We were talking about a players natural athleticism, the times that I posted are measures of a players natural athleticism, speed, strength, change of direction, acceleration are all measures of ATHLETICISM.

We know Landry is a pretty good SS in his own right, what alot of people want on this board is someone who can make 80 tackles in a year and have more than 1 INT and 4 PD. You know actually make a difference in pass coverages. But continue to make this argument about something totally different.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1297102218' post='634811']
We know Landry is a pretty good SS in his own right, what alot of people want on this board is someone who can make 80 tackles in a year and have more than 1 INT and 4 PD. You know actually make a difference in pass coverages. But continue to make this argument about something totally different.
[/quote]

People are stupid. Landry is exactly what we need in the backfield. We don't need another gambling safety, and we certainly don't need him in coverage. It's not everyone's job to cover a WR, even though Landry does a good job on short TE passes when called upon.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1297121757' post='635170']
People are stupid. Landry is exactly what we need in the backfield. We don't need another gambling safety, and we certainly don't need him in coverage. It's not everyone's job to cover a WR, even though Landry does a good job on short TE passes when called upon.
[/quote]

People aren't calling for someone who takes chances like Ed. They just want a strong safety with more foot speed.

Landry is a solid player but a liability in deep coverage, and that shouldn't be the case.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1297099425' post='634760']
Al Davis and his team, may be closer to finding what works than we are. Alot of it is because we have such knowledgeable fans that know so much, yet so little about the game.
[/quote]
He is, isn't he? The Raiders sweep the Division, beat the Chargers for the first time in 13 straight tries and subsequently fire the HC. I can't blame him though. The AFC West is brutally tough. It's just a coincidence that we've played them 8 times in the last 3 years and emerged undefeated.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1297121757' post='635170']
People are stupid. Landry is exactly what we need in the backfield. We don't need another gambling safety, and we certainly don't need him in coverage. It's not everyone's job to cover a WR, even though Landry does a good job on short TE passes when called upon.
[/quote]
Nobody said anything about gambling, but a SS who can actually make plays in pass coverage would be nice. I didnt say it was a necessity, we have more needs at OLB/DE/MLB/WR/OT/WR/WR than we do at SS.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1297131930' post='635290']
Nobody said anything about gambling, but a SS who can actually make plays in pass coverage would be nice. I didnt say it was a necessity, we have more needs at OLB/DE/MLB/WR/OT/WR/WR than we do at SS.
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure the consensus was he doesn't get enough interceptions or break up passes, which usually requires some sort of jumping the play.

It's not like Dawan is a HOFer but to say replacing him is an area of concern is ludicrous.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1297132133' post='635294']
I'm pretty sure the consensus was he doesn't get enough interceptions or break up passes, which usually requires some sort of jumping the play.

It's not like Dawan is a HOFer but to say replacing him is an area of concern is ludicrous.
[/quote]
It doesn't take jumping a play to make a play in pass defense, Landry doesn't have the speed to even break on a ball thats in a 10 foot radius of him already in the air.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1297132311' post='635300']
It doesn't take jumping a play to make a play in pass defense, Landry doesn't have the speed to even break on a ball thats in a 10 foot radius of him already in the air.
[/quote]

Most of the time you do need gamble to make that kind of play because you risk not tackling the guy. But we don't need Landry to cover WRs anwyay. Even Polamalu doesn't cover them well and he goes and wins DPoY. I don't know what you want to argue here. We're not going to find a SS that can fill his role better.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1297132621' post='635310']
Most of the time you do need gamble to make that kind of play because you risk not tackling the guy. But we don't need Landry to cover WRs anwyay. Even Polamalu doesn't cover them well and he goes and wins DPoY. I don't know what you want to argue here. We're not going to find a SS that can fill his role better.
[/quote]
Its your job in pass coverage to not let the guy catch the ball, you can't just let him catch it so you can make the tackle if the guy is 20 yards down field because your scared you'll miss the ball. The argument is that the league is starting to move away from 220 pound in the box SS, Polamalu isn't a great pure man coverage SS but he's athletic and versatile enough that you can move him around to disguise coverages and he can make plays in pass defense. If the league was all about I Form power running like it used to be then Landry would be perfect, but its not anymore. He's not a bad player like I already stated, but lets not pretend he makes plays in the passing game either.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1297098896' post='634751']
Let me start this off by saying this is not a personal attack. Some of you guys are very well at posting comments filled with stats, combine times, Knowledge of the players collegiate history etc..... But you don't seem to be very good at evaluating talent. It sometimes takes people that have played the game to do this. So if i need a reference on the character of a player, or personal info I will contact you. But trust me on this, if you need someone to tell you about talent im your guy. Disrespectful post are laughable.smdh Here is one better though. Actually play football, play it until you bleed in a game. Give everything you have until there is none left, and then do it for the better part of your life. Then maybe you'll understand the game as well as players and ex players do.
[/quote]
But what of the ones who did play Football, as well as other contact sports, for a prolonged period of time? I won't defend myself because as you've stated, this wasn't a personal attack, but who's to say that people on here have no experience in sports or sacrificing for their teams?

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1297132806' post='635315']
Its your job in pass coverage to not let the guy catch the ball, you can't just let him catch it so you can make the tackle if the guy is 20 yards down field because your scared you'll miss the ball. The argument is that the league is starting to move away from 220 pound in the box SS, Polamalu isn't a great pure man coverage SS but he's athletic and versatile enough that you can move him around to disguise coverages and he can make plays in pass defense. If the league was all about I Form power running like it used to be then Landry would be perfect, but its not anymore. He's not a bad player like I already stated, but [b]lets not pretend he makes plays in the passing game either.[/b]
[/quote]

His specialty is stopping the run (which he does very well) and working together with Ed. So much of the back end relies on chemistry. Together we have a great covering safety and a great run-stuffing safety. Don't forget he did lead the team in interceptions in '09 (tied with Foxworth). All he should be asked to do in the passing game is get to the QB or cover short routes.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1297133491' post='635324']
His specialty is stopping the run (which he does very well) and working together with Ed. So much of the back end relies on chemistry. Together we have a great covering safety and a great run-stuffing safety. Don't forget he did lead the team in interceptions in '09 (tied with Foxworth). All he should be asked to do in the passing game is get to the QB or cover short routes.
[/quote]
Exactly he's limited in what he can do in the pass game, we have to play 1/3rds defense the majority of the time because Landry can't play the deep half. Having a safety that can do both is what the league is starting to require out of a SS.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1297134580' post='635336']
Exactly he's limited in what he can do in the pass game, we have to play 1/3rds defense the majority of the time because Landry can't play the deep half. Having a safety that can do both is what the league is starting to require out of a SS.
[/quote]

The league can do what it wants. Bottom line is we're not going to find an upgrade from Landry. But if we did, it'd probably be Ruki or Zibby since they've already have some chemistry with the rest of the D. Nobody's perfect but time with the team counts.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1297132806' post='635315']
Its your job in pass coverage to not let the guy catch the ball, you can't just let him catch it so you can make the tackle if the guy is 20 yards down field because your scared you'll miss the ball. [b]The argument is that the league is starting to move away from 220 pound in the box SS[/b], Polamalu isn't a great pure man coverage SS but he's athletic and versatile enough that you can move him around to disguise coverages and he can make plays in pass defense. If the league was all about I Form power running like it used to be then Landry would be perfect, but its not anymore. He's not a bad player like I already stated, but lets not pretend he makes plays in the passing game either.
[/quote]
Agreed. I think young players like Eric Berry and Tyvon Branch may be the poster boys of the SS position in terms of what teams could be looking for in the near future. Safeties that could be physical in run support, but could just as well cover ground. Defenses are changing with the times, so range is beginning to rise in value. If the Ravens opt to let Landry test the market, I think the name Ahmad Black will be thrown around quite often on Draft day.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1297135001' post='635341']
The league can do whatit wants. B[b]ottom line is we're not going to find an upgrade from Landry[/b]. But if we did, it'd probably be Ruki or Zibby since they've already have some chemistry with the rest of the D. Nobody's perfect but time with the team counts.
[/quote]

How are you so sure? I'm sure there were people calling for Will Demps to return after '05 but the team found Landry. Six years later though, we've seen the guy's biggest weakness is defending against what offenses are focusing on.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1297135001' post='635341']
The league can do what it wants. Bottom line is we're not going to find an upgrade from Landry. But if we did, it'd probably be Ruki or Zibby since they've already have some chemistry with the rest of the D. Nobody's perfect but time with the team counts.
[/quote]
lol the league is leaning to that for a SS because teams are going spread offense so often. Its not 2003 anymore man. Honestly we could find an upgrade for Landry in almost any draft, however as Ive already stated we have needs that outweigh upgrading SS and considering Landry is not a bad player by any means using a day 1 pick at SS wouldn't be smart imo.

[XxSizzleXx]

If Landry isn't brought back hopefully the Ravens can get lucky and draft Ahmad Black.

[flynismo]

,[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1297145280' post='635479']<br />lol the league is leaning to that for a SS because teams are going spread offense so often.  Its not 2003 anymore man.  Honestly we could find an upgrade for Landry in almost any draft, however as Ive already stated we have needs that outweigh upgrading SS and considering Landry is not a bad player by any means using a day 1 pick at SS wouldn't be smart imo.<br />[/quote]


that's exactly right...there are probably 5 or 6 safeties in this draft alone that would be an upgrade over Landry, but we are much weaker in other areas.

However, I'm crossing my fingers and hoping we can snag Mark Barron in the 4th. That's late enough to address bigger needs, and still land a guy that I think would run away with the starting job by the end of his rookie season.
,,,,,,,,

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1297129403' post='635260']
He is, isn't he? The Raiders sweep the Division, beat the Chargers for the first time in 13 straight tries and subsequently fire the HC. I can't blame him though. The AFC West is brutally tough. It's just a coincidence that we've played them 8 times in the last 3 years and emerged undefeated.
[/quote]
New quarterback, More experienced running back and one of the best young crop of receivers out there. Not to mention a head coach that our coordinator had to contact to get plays from before the Kansas city game. Raiders= much improved.