Is Joe Flacco Not Allowed To Audible?

[EyeSeeTDsInBmore]

So a big part of the reason I want Cam Cameron fired is because he won't let our QB audible and grow to learn to be a leader for the offense. Is it true that Joe isn't allowed to audible as much as he should be able to? TJ Houshmandzadeh even said on a radio show that Joe had only audibled a hand full of times during the season.

OR

Is Joe not smart enough to read defenses?

[Ed_Reed20]

While we heard T.J. say Joe only did it handful of times and Willis suggested similar things on a radio show too, Joe himself said he was able to check out of certain players but not others. Cam credited Joe with doing a lot of that against the Saints.

I won't say Joe isn't allowed to audible but he probably isn't given as much freedom as other QBs. However, why have those QBs been given that freedom? They've earned it through big plays in big situations over more than just three seasons.

[Perfekt]

I know this is just one example but I use the game winning TD when we first beat the Steelers as a example of a time a changed play worked out.

Like I said thats only one example but the response after that was epic. It proved to me that Cam was more worried about his own plays then winning the game. If a winning TD play is overrated then only want to see overrated football.

I feel sorry for John because Cam could cause his demise.

[TreTheRaven]

Part of me has wondered if Cam sees things about Joe, that he doesn't quite feel comfortable with Joe making the adjustments yet. Maybe he still feels that he has things to learn?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='TreTheRaven' timestamp='1295570118' post='619677']
Part of me has wondered if Cam sees things about Joe, that he doesn't quite feel comfortable with Joe making the adjustments yet. Maybe he still feels that he has things to learn?
[/quote]

That's a strong possibility when you take into account what we've seen from Joe at times.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1295572979' post='619765']
That's a strong possibility when you take into account what we've seen from Joe at times.
[/quote]

In his 3rd year, I'd think that he certainly has things to learn but really, that would not explain Week2 when Joe was clearly struggling and Rice was having success and Cam literally took the ball out of Rice's hands and went with the passing game.

It would not explain sitting on a 4 pt lead (game 2 against the Steelers) for nearly an entire half and then with just over 3 mins left in our own territory sending Joe back to pass. I get that if the blocking assignment is not missed it most likely would have been a completion, but the entire thought process in that situation is flawed.

If you look at the games this season, we've performed well in the first half with mostly a balanced attack. Sometimes heavier on the passing side, once or twice heavier on the run side. One of two things always seemed to happen after halftime.

Either Cam completely abandoned a game plan that was working OR he failed to adjust his game plan when the opposing team made their half time adjustments and shut down his initial game plan. Now, this did not happen in every single game but it did in the vast majority of them. There is something wrong in the logic behind the way these games were called. Some have said that Cam overthinks things and thereby over complicates them. Perhaps that is the case. Others have made a case that he and Joe do not get along and he could be deliberately derailing him. I don't think that is the case because Joe's failure is ultimately Cam's failure as well.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1295575455' post='619809']
In his 3rd year, I'd think that he certainly has things to learn but really, that would not explain Week2 when Joe was clearly struggling and Rice was having success and Cam literally took the ball out of Rice's hands and went with the passing game.

It would not explain sitting on a 4 pt lead (game 2 against the Steelers) for nearly an entire half and then with just over 3 mins left in our own territory sending Joe back to pass. I get that if the blocking assignment is not missed it most likely would have been a completion, but the entire thought process in that situation is flawed.

If you look at the games this season, we've performed well in the first half with mostly a balanced attack. Sometimes heavier on the passing side, once or twice heavier on the run side. One of two things always seemed to happen after halftime.

Either Cam completely abandoned a game plan that was working OR he failed to adjust his game plan when the opposing team made their half time adjustments and shut down his initial game plan. Now, this did not happen in every single game but it did in the vast majority of them. There is something wrong in the logic behind the way these games were called. Some have said that Cam overthinks things and thereby over complicates them. Perhaps that is the case. Others have made a case that he and Joe do not get along and he could be deliberately derailing him. I don't think that is the case because Joe's failure is ultimately Cam's failure as well.
[/quote]

Agreed. I've said before and will continue to say the first Bengals loss was mostly on Cam. The o-line got whipped in pass pro(as usual against Cincy, Joe struggled and Hall, Joseph and Pacman shut down the WRs for the most part). The running game was looking good but Rice got 16 carries and McGahee got 3. Even more glaring, the 5.4 average he had that day was the most he had all season.

Cam didn't sit on the 4 point lead. He tried the Stallworth reverse and it was promptly shut down. A Flacco pass to Rice went for 13 yards but a third down pass fell incomplete.

The next drive, Rice ran twice for 4 yards and on third down, Joe threw another incomplete pass.

On the third drive, Willis went for 2 yards. The Steelers committed a penalty creating a first down. Rice went for 5 yards the next drive and then we had the fateful Polamalu strip.

I flip-flopped on what he should have done in that situation but simply concluded Oher should got the block.

I agree with the rest of the post post.

[Rinbee]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1295559138' post='619438']
While we heard T.J. say Joe only did it handful of times and Willis suggested similar things on a radio show too, [b]Joe himself said he was able to check out of certain players but not others.[/b] Cam credited Joe with doing a lot of that against the Saints.

I won't say Joe isn't allowed to audible but he probably isn't given as much freedom as other QBs. However, why have those QBs been given that freedom? They've earned it through big plays in big situations over more than just three seasons.
[/quote]

I see checking out and audibling as two differnet things. One is abandoning a play once the ball is snapped the other is calling a different play at the line. By my definition, Joe does have freedom to check down but only he and the players really know if he changes any plays. We don's know what is being called in the huddle so once the play is run is it the original play or a new play? I have to go by what the players are saying.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Rinbee' timestamp='1295579801' post='619892']
I see checking out and audibling as two differnet things. One is abandoning a play once the ball is snapped the other is calling a different play at the line. By my definition, Joe does have freedom to check down but only he and the players really know if he changes any plays. We don's know what is being called in the huddle so once the play is run is it the original play or a new play? I have to go by what the players are saying.
[/quote]

I do remember Joe saying specifically the "10-yard hitches" the offense runs are "checks". He said if he didn't like the coverage, he'd go to something else. Maybe that perfectly defines what a "check" is, I don't know.

Going by what the players is said is probably best though.

[FerrariFan87]

Joe's checked-off plays/audibled once or twice this season with minimal success... while it'd be nice to see more pre-snap reads from Joe, he has other issues he needs to fix first, starting with basic footwork and mechanics.

[Ravenslifer]

If I remember correctly, Joe said he is allowed to check out of plays (whether that's all plays or only certain ones I don't know) but he's not allowed to change the plays at the line of scrimmage. If that's right and I'm interpreting it correctly, this means that if Joe sees something he doesn't like pre-snap, he basically has to let Cam Cameron or whoever is in his ear know, and that person presumably calls a new play. So all that fancy stuff everybody sees Manning do, and we all see other quarterbacks do, though less animated than Manning, is apparently something Joe hasn't been given permission to do yet. One area that I definitely think we have to improve on is the 2-minute offense, and I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure a key component of the 2-minute drill is the ability of the quarterback to call his own plays, because he's trying to move the ball a fair distance in a short amount of time, and waiting for someone to tell him what to do, then having to relay that to the rest of the players on offense, takes up time. I don't know how we run the 2-minute drill, but if Cam calls everything on the field at all times, which seems to be really inefficient to me.

[TSizzle00]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1295559138' post='619438']
While we heard T.J. say Joe only did it handful of times and Willis suggested similar things on a radio show too, Joe himself said he was able to check out of certain players but not others. Cam credited Joe with doing a lot of that against the Saints.

I won't say Joe isn't allowed to audible but he probably isn't given as much freedom as other QBs. However, why have those QBs been given that freedom? [b]They've earned it through big plays in big situations over more than just three seasons.[/b]
[/quote]

No because their OC's dont think audibles are overrated. According to Cam Flacco audibled alot his rookie year. Why they got away from it is beyond me.

[JohnJohnson]

[quote name='EyeSeeTDsInBmore' timestamp='1295555564' post='619349']
So a big part of the reason I want Cam Cameron fired is because he won't let our QB audible and grow to learn to be a leader for the offense. Is it true that Joe isn't allowed to audible as much as he should be able to? TJ Houshmandzadeh even said on a radio show that Joe had only audibled a hand full of times during the season.

OR

[b]Is Joe not smart enough to read defenses?[/b]
[/quote]

This really pisses me off. Analysts need to stop putting it this way, because it's not fair to the people that are football players. Maybe Joe needs work at reading defenses, maybe his potential for that isn't that high, but that's no reason to make a judgment about his overall intelligence.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='TSizzle00' timestamp='1295629728' post='620307']
No because their OC's dont think audibles are overrated. According to Cam Flacco audibled alot his rookie year. Why they got away from it is beyond me.
[/quote]

I'd say it [i]does[/i] have to do with the fact those QBs are more experienced.

Can you provide a link to when Cam said Joe audibled a lot his rookie season?

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1295633348' post='620371']
I'd say it [i]does[/i] have to do with the fact those QBs are more experienced.

Can you provide a link to when Cam said Joe audibled a lot his rookie season?
[/quote]


Cameron was then asked if Joe had more freedom to do so now than as a rookie.

Cameron said: "I’ll put it to you this way, and this is fair: With Joe Flacco, we audibled a ton with him as a rookie. Over half the time.

[url="http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/blog/2010/10/cameron_audibling_is_overrated.html"]My link[/url]

[sflegend89]

Matt Ryan was in command of his offense when he played us, he read the D and made effective audibles. Theres no reason Joe shouldn't have been doing that this year, even if it's not at the level of Ryan's audibles, Joe's gotta learn at some point, this season made perfect sense to start incorporating it, but Cameron and Zorn don't wanna overwhelm the now 4th year QB c'mon!