Cam Or Can

[Perfekt]

im sure their are plenty of coachs that would love to run our offense. the defnse although it messed up still played a full 60 mins its just hard to get stops when your always on the field.

[cuervodoro]

The onus of the blame does not befalles on ne head.

Rice's run was a no factor straight up the middle. Why employ this tactic, it's futile. Run the outsides more, pitch or do a reverse.

Why doon't the offensive-line penetrate and pressure more from the outside, outside tackles when Roethlisberger notices we attack and sack him in closer line formation to the huddle, he moves back for the snap. Why not align degfenders at right angles for the attack and pressure him?

[balbird27]

what happened to Todd Heap in the second half

[AsianRice]

I'm still bitter at the loss, and Cam needs to go. We need a good and new OC to help our young guys. It's time to move on....

[Romo Ravens]

Not only does Cam need to be fired, but this offense needs a whole new dimension. Most of the fans on here said that a burner wasn't necessary. We have three possession WR's and our two starters managed -2 yards the whole game. We need youth and I won't be surprised to see Housh, Mason and Stallworth let go. We need to be an explosive team, our WR core still looks like crap. Drops all around, nobody being able to pick up YAC, no game breakers. I told all of you it would come back to haunt us

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1295152666' post='608257']
Not only does Cam need to be fired, but this offense needs a whole new dimension. Most of the fans on here said that a burner wasn't necessary. We have three possession WR's and our two starters managed -2 yards the whole game. We need youth and I won't be surprised to see Housh, Mason and Stallworth let go. We need to be an explosive team, our WR core still looks like crap. Drops all around, nobody being able to pick up YAC, no game breakers. I told all of you it would come back to haunt us
[/quote]

I won't say the WR corps "looks like crap" but it needs to be overhauled for the second consecutive off-season.

[AsianRice]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1295152666' post='608257']
Not only does Cam need to be fired, but this offense needs a whole new dimension. Most of the fans on here said that a burner wasn't necessary. We have three possession WR's and our two starters managed -2 yards the whole game. We need youth and I won't be surprised to see Housh, Mason and Stallworth let go. We need to be an explosive team, our WR core still looks like crap. Drops all around, nobody being able to pick up YAC, no game breakers. I told all of you it would come back to haunt us
[/quote]
Watching Rodgers lay a real whooping on the Falcons in their doom made me even sad cuz we have utility to do that. Our players and coaches aren't ready for the new level.

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1295152838' post='608264']
I won't say the WR corps "looks like crap" but it needs to be overhauled for the second consecutive off-season.
[/quote]

We need quick, shifty WR's like GB. Joe would absolutely thrive in that system. I really think we're wasting his arm. At this point, I only want to see Boldin and Reed, and draft and sign some youth while adding a veteran like James Jones or someone similar

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1295153008' post='608274']
Watching Rodgers lay a real whooping on the Falcons in their doom made me even sad cuz we have utility to do that. Our players and coaches aren't ready for the new level.
[/quote]

I agree with your last statement but our core doesn't even come close to theirs. I do see a lot of similarities between AR and Joe though. If we can get him a supporting cast like that, we'd be a great offense, but the FO seems content on trying to group a whole bunch of Veterans and hoping they gel, which needs to change

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1295153198' post='608292']
We need quick, shifty WR's like GB. Joe would absolutely thrive in that system. I really think we're wasting his arm. At this point, I only want to see Boldin and Reed, and draft and sign some youth while adding a veteran like James Jones or someone similar
[/quote]

I don't see Jones being let go. Driver is in the same boat as Mason and as inconsistent as he is, Jones is very talented.

Regardless, the Ravens need a young, complete WR to grow with Joe. I think Reed can be the "qucik, shifty" guy you're talking about but the Ravens need a Mike Williams or Steve Johnson.

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1295153497' post='608311']
I don't see Jones being let go. Driver is in the same boat as Mason and as inconsistent as he is, Jones is very talented.

Regardless, the Ravens need a young, complete WR to grow with Joe. I think Reed can be the "qucik, shifty" guy you're talking about but the Ravens need a Mike Williams or Steve Johnson.
[/quote]

I don't see him being let go either but it's good to wish. I agree about Williams and Johnson, and why is it so difficult to grab one of those in the draft? I know that we have a lot of holes to fill, but signing Vincent Jackson to grow with Flacco should strongly be considered, even though I'm not one of those fans that doesn't believe in cap space, but something needs to be done. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Ravens sign TO or some WR on the wrong side of 35 to replace Mason. So sad

[The Prestige]

I need coaches tape to see if Anquan Boldin is getting open as often as Steve Johnson but - at bare minimum - he could be more dominant than Steve Johnson if Cam used Donte or David Reed the way Buffalo uses Donald Jones and Lee Evans to move safeties away from doubles.

I know Anquan Boldin is better at going up and getting a touchdown than either Steve Johnson or Tampa's Mike Williams. Somewhere, the trust isn't there, from either Flacco, Cameron or both.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1295153824' post='608329']
I don't see him being let go either but it's good to wish. I agree about Williams and Johnson, and why is it so difficult to grab one of those in the draft? I know that we have a lot of holes to fill, but signing Vincent Jackson to grow with Flacco should strongly be considered, even though I'm not one of those fans that doesn't believe in cap space, but something needs to be done. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Ravens sign TO or some WR on the wrong side of 35 to replace Mason. So sad
[/quote]

Well, Williams is a first round talent but teams shied away because of his "issues". Stevie fell through the cracks and emerged this season but we'll see if he can maintain the success next year. I threw his name out there but we see WRs emerge out of nowhere every year but not all become consistent players.

V-Jax is a nice thought but not really plausible.

I really hope they don't sign an over-the-hill WR.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='The Prestige' timestamp='1295154095' post='608345']
I need coaches tape to see if Anquan Boldin is getting open as often as Steve Johnson but - at bare minimum - he could be more dominant than Steve Johnson if Cam used Donte or David Reed the way Buffalo uses Donald Jones and Lee Evans to move safeties away from doubles.

[b]I know Anquan Boldin is better at going up and getting a touchdown than either Steve Johnson or Tampa's Mike Williams.[/b] [b]Somewhere, the trust isn't there, from either Flacco, Cameron or both.[/b]
[/quote]

If you really believe that, you haven't watched Anquan Boldin. The guy isn't a jump-ball specialist; he never has been. The guy catches short passes in space and gets YACs. His explosion(not that he had a lot of it before) has declined but the guy can still be effective if used correctly.

You don't see Steelers having Ward run deep routes but why have I consistently seen Q sent on them this season?

It's not about trust. It's not knowing your personnel.

[FerrariFan87]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1295140387' post='606786']
Wasnt Cams fault today, Cam actually called a pretty good game, the Oline crapped itself to epic proportions in the 2nd half like none other. Cam was pretty brutal during the middle/end of the season, but today was not on him. Boldin dropped a TD pass that hits him in the chest, Flacco overthrows a wide open Heap on the last drive, how about Webb on 3rd AND ********* 20!!!!
[/quote]

This sure was Cam's fault today... he didn't call one slant, deep-in or go-route all game. Didn't have but 1 or 2 throws over the middle... never went up-tempo or no-huddle... he's just awful and clearly needs to be shown the door.

Yes, Boldin and Housh probably cost us the game, but it should have never gotten to that point.

[FerrariFan87]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1295154117' post='608346']
Well, Williams is a first round talent but teams shied away because of his "issues". Stevie fell through the cracks and emerged this season but we'll see if he can maintain the success next year. I threw his name out there but we see WRs emerge out of nowhere every year but not all become consistent players.

V-Jax is a nice thought but not really plausible.

I really hope they don't sign an over-the-hill WR.
[/quote]

"Stevie" cost us a Home game...

[RoflDogs]

Im not so sure about James Jones. Majority of Packer fans hate him

[PuRock]

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1295154390' post='608366']
Im not so sure about James Jones. Majority of Packer fans hate him
[/quote]

Really? I thought they liked the guy. He's been making some big plays.

[Romo Ravens]

If anyone saw the Ray Lewis interview after the game he said that if you have a lead like that, you need to finish. It sounded like a shot at Cameron to me. Just saw it on ESPN

[The Prestige]

Hey, EdReed20.

Did you see the jump ball Anquan Boldin made in the Jets game?

How about his jump ball on the sideline against the Cowboys in 2005?

How about the high throw on the fade route this year against the Falcons?

How about his touchdown against the Pats?

How about the second game against the 49ers in 2007 where he went up and beat a double team for a jump ball?

Did you see the deep snag he made in the Super Bowl against Pittsburgh?

Heck, how about week 16 2007 against the Falcons where he constantly beat DeAngelo Hall and a safety for high catches?

I'll give blame where blame is due: he shouldn't have dropped that ball as he was falling to the ground. If he had not have been falling, he might have had a chance on the tip. That said, look how Green Bay uses their weapons. Look how QUICKLY they get the ball in their hands. Entering this year, Boldin was #1 in the NFL in ypg. He didn't spend his entire seven seasons in Arizona going up against prevent defenses, playing from behind. The team was .500 or better all of his last three years.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1295154259' post='608359']
This sure was Cam's fault today... he didn't call one slant, deep-in or go-route all game. Didn't have but 1 or 2 throws over the middle... never went up-tempo or no-huddle... he's just awful and clearly needs to be shown the door.

Yes, Boldin and Housh probably cost us the game, but it should have never gotten to that point.
[/quote]
The TD to Heap was a slant play... and who calls a deep in when the Oline cant protect him for longer than 3 seconds.

[FerrariFan87]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1295155402' post='608453']
The TD to Heap was a slant play... and who calls a deep in when the Oline cant protect him for longer than 3 seconds.
[/quote]

I'd say it was more of a "pick" play than a slant... Joe had zero intention of throwing the "slant," it was Heap or bust.

[The Prestige]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1295155402' post='608453']
The TD to Heap was a slant play... and who calls a deep in when the Oline cant protect him for longer than 3 seconds.
[/quote]
Cam Cameron is desperately scared to let defenses know which way he is leaning.

For this O-line, their best bet is to have max protect, with one guy staying in to block and another - preferably Ray Rice unless he fumbles for the first time all year and they punish him (and ultimately Flacco) by putting in someone worse at pass protection at a crucial playoff drive when they need protection - releasing and one faster receiver and two of the three veterans. Once you start getting success and in a rhythm, the defense will back off enough to pass (and run) out of a variety formations.

Was Stallworth in the game at all?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='The Prestige' timestamp='1295155108' post='608421']
Hey, EdReed20.

Did you see the jump ball Anquan Boldin made in the Jets game?

How about his jump ball on the sideline against the Cowboys in 2005?

How about the high throw on the fade route this year against the Falcons?

How about his touchdown against the Pats?

How about the second game against the 49ers in 2007 where he went up and beat a double team for a jump ball?

Did you see the deep snag he made in the Super Bowl against Pittsburgh?

Heck, how about week 16 2007 against the Falcons where he constantly beat DeAngelo Hall and a safety for high catches?

I'll give blame where blame is due: he shouldn't have dropped that ball as he was falling to the ground. If he had not have been falling, he might have had a chance on the tip. That said, look how Green Bay uses their weapons. Look how QUICKLY they get the ball in their hands. Entering this year, Boldin was #1 in the NFL in ypg. He didn't spend his entire seven seasons in Arizona going up against prevent defenses, playing from behind. The team was .500 or better all of his last three years.
[/quote]

What jump ball against the Jets?

I don't remember a random jump ball against the Cowboys in '05. Can you provide video?

The fade route against the Falcons came against a 5'9 CB who obviously mistimed his jump.

His touchdown against the Pats came on go route where McCourty blew his coverage.

The TD against the 9ers came on a slant that Warner threw high and was NOT over a double team. You can see it 37 seconds in this video. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4bAkJ7caxE"][b]Link[/b][/url]

This deep snag against the Steelers?

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9fSKVfZNdo[/media]

Funny, that looks like a perfect ball that hit him in the breadbasket and he didn't have to break stride or jump.

I know he's very a good WR and was underutilized and wrongly utilized this season but again, [b]he is no jump-ball specialist[/b].

EDIT:

I didn't you write write Super Bowl. [b]That catch came on a CROSSING ROUTE. He didn't leave his feet to make that.[/b]

Can you provide video of him beating Hall and a safety against the Falcons in '07?

[The Prestige]

I think I can find the video.

Boldin should refuse to go to training camp until Cam gets fired. If he could get others to do the same thing, maybe they'll have a chance next playoffs.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1295155668' post='608476']
I'd say it was more of a "pick" play than a slant... Joe had zero intention of throwing the "slant," it was Heap or bust.
[/quote]
Maybe but thats a slant play regardless, if the corner is in zone and releases TJ, maybe Joe throws to TJ. Something we'll never know.

Im not a big fan of Cameron either, but between the WRs dropping balls, the Oline and backs being awful in pass blocking (McClain might be one of the worst pass blocking FBs Ive seen in awhile) Cameron really didnt stand a chance. When Flacco did get time, he suffered some crucial drops, thats bogus Boldin thinks that ball was too low, your a WR, Joe threw it where you caught it nobody catches it, exactly where hes supposed to throw it, you get 8 mil a year to make those catches against that EXACT TEAM. There were times when even another second and Flacco finds Heap wide open on that deep TE jerk route, or TJ on a drag with nobody around him. Cameron wasnt the total issue tonight.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='The Prestige' timestamp='1295156207' post='608507']
I think I can find the video.

Boldin should refuse to go to training camp until Cam gets fired. If he could get others to do the same thing, maybe they'll have a chance next playoffs.
[/quote]
Im usually all for a coup de tat but they usually end up in beheadings...and it is the 21st century now lol

[Jamal]

To repeat what I've said before:

James Jones is overrated, and I don't get all the love for him. He definitely benefits from playing on such a pass-happy offense and a top 5 QB. Sure he played well today, but he mostly isn't that good. He has very sub-par hands, and thats the last kind of WR you want when you have to go against the Steelers twice sometime thrice a year.

[TheSim]

Regardless of whether or not you "blame" Cam Cameron for this loss is kind of irrelevant. It's been obvious all year that our best players on offense do not respect him, and that Joe Flacco has not been taught how to beat the two most important defenses in the NFL for him: Cincinnati and Pittsburgh. To me when you can't beat your most important opponents, and you've lost the trust of your players, that means it's time for you to go somewhere else. Period. How can we run a successful training camp when the players don't believe in what their coordinator is teaching them? By mid-week next week, Cam needs to be gone. Otherwise, nothing will change, and with the persistent decline on defense going on, we'll be lucky to be above .500 next year.

[The Prestige]

[quote name='TheSim' timestamp='1295156515' post='608538']
Regardless of whether or not you "blame" Cam Cameron for this loss is kind of irrelevant. It's been obvious all year that our best players on offense do not respect him, and that Joe Flacco has not been taught how to beat the two most important defenses in the NFL for him: Cincinnati and Pittsburgh. To me when you can't beat your most important opponents, and you've lost the trust of your players, that means it's time for you to go somewhere else. Period. How can we run a successful training camp when the players don't believe in what their coordinator is teaching them? By mid-week next week, Cam needs to be gone. Otherwise, nothing will change, and with the persistent decline on defense going on, we'll be lucky to be above .500 next year.
[/quote]
Wow, this is really good. It's true. It's almost like - even though this is rarely true - it is best for both parties. The longer Cam Cameron stays here and the more players who leave and do better elsewhere (or, like Boldin, somehow did better with Haley and Whisenhunt calling plays; Boldin's best season, by the way, was before Fitzgerald was drafted) and the more the offense looks like a high school team on national TV, the worse Cameron's next job is going to be.

Maybe Cam Cameron would be the #1 OC if he had the right players to play his offense. As it stands right now, I'd put him at #32. You have to wonder if Housh or Mase will come back with Cam there. It'd be a shame if they wouldn't get a chance to prove what they could do in a diverse, attacking Baltimore offense.