Conspiracy Theorists

[anonymousravenfan85]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1295283654' post='612594']
I usually ignore rants about 'the refs are out to get us'. Let's face it, they are human and mistakes will happen. Heck, back in week one we actually benefitted from a very questionable flag (thrown on Braylon for roughing the kicker).

But this game really got my mind thinking about things.

Just over the past three years alone, three of our games versus PIT resulted in a Steeler victory in which a flag played a huge factor in the end result.

Then I think about our games against other teams. For example, our other divisional rivals. In the same time span, not a single one of those games against CLE or CIN were significantly affected by officiating. All in all, our games against those two teams are about as evenly officiated as can be expected, controversial flags are rare and when they do occur they seem to balance out and are never a game changing event.

Then I look over the years ... How many times have the Steelers won games (not just against us) that were influenced by a very questionable flag?

I have to wonder why it is that we have so many games decided by controversial flags when we play PIT, yet our games against other division rivals are uneventful, despite the same ref crews.

Is it a conspiracy?

I'm not so quick to brush that theory off anymore.
[/quote]
Maybe a conspiracy or not its the fact that the steelers game are always the biggest just like in the divisional game it was the most watched divisional game ever watched. In my oppinion its just think about how many people are betting on this game it was no doubt one the biggest talked about games to come, so how many refs you think are betting on this game i mean you scene it in all sports. Im just saying the steelers are high marketed team fans all over the country nobody wants the ravens to win. I mean a few years ago when the ravens went 16-0 who almost beat them on primetime tv it was us and what happened in that game bull crap pass interference call cost us the game so wether the refs are after us or not who knows. sure as hell seems that way i agree with you 100% on the conspiracy theory everyone sees it so. even after the game saturday shannon sharpe said one of the worst officiated gamess he ever saw.

[GTRavens]

The preferential treatment conspiracy theory is nothing more than confirmation bias. The NFL stands virtually nothing to gain and everything to lose by engaging in that kind of behavior. Not a worthwhile "investment".

[ravenswoman]

[quote name='GTRavens' timestamp='1295383154' post='615687']
The preferential treatment conspiracy theory is nothing more than confirmation bias. The NFL stands virtually nothing to gain and everything to lose by engaging in that kind of behavior. Not a worthwhile "investment".
[/quote]
The NFL gains if they feel they have a larger viewership if the Steelers advance not the Ravens. Next years commercial rates are determined by this years TV ratings. So the NFL does gain by engaging in that kind of behavior. I'm not saying they are but it is food for thought.

I am curious though, wouldn't it stand to reason, if the odds were for the Steelers to win, the refs have more to gain by betting on the Ravens and then influencing the outcome for the Ravens to win?

[bpytnjr58]

The real conspiracy is the that the NFL under Paul Tagliabue never wanted a team in Baltimore..as hard as city and state officials tried ole Tags shot them down.to this day i do not know why the league had it in for us...maybe our govt officials yanked their chain too hard but either way the city won in the end but i think we still feel a slight chill from the league office.

[flygunit88]

up 21 to 7 at the half the ravens should have blown pit out the water and taken this game away from the refs, but like all year they choke after halftime and that was a direct result....

[Steelpride]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1295283654' post='612594']
I usually ignore rants about 'the refs are out to get us'. Let's face it, they are human and mistakes will happen. Heck, back in week one we actually benefitted from a very questionable flag (thrown on Braylon for roughing the kicker).

But this game really got my mind thinking about things.

Just over the past three years alone, three of our games versus PIT resulted in a Steeler victory in which a flag played a huge factor in the end result.

Then I think about our games against other teams. For example, our other divisional rivals. In the same time span, not a single one of those games against CLE or CIN were significantly affected by officiating. All in all, our games against those two teams are about as evenly officiated as can be expected, controversial flags are rare and when they do occur they seem to balance out and are never a game changing event.

Then I look over the years ... How many times have the Steelers won games (not just against us) that were influenced by a very questionable flag?

I have to wonder why it is that we have so many games decided by controversial flags when we play PIT, yet our games against other division rivals are uneventful, despite the same ref crews.

Is it a conspiracy?

I'm not so quick to brush that theory off anymore.
[/quote]


Did you look at the total yards for penalties in the game? Steelers were penalized for 93 yards, Ravens 70. As far as the holding call, I initially thought it was weak, but after watching the replay and hearing the NFL say it was the correct call, who am I to argue. Great teams can overcome penalties, good teams use them as an excuse for losing.

The Ravens lost that game in the 3rd quarter, and it had nothing to do with penalties.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='Steelpride' timestamp='1295385695' post='615794']
[b]Did you look at the total yards for penalties in the game? Steelers were penalized for 93 yards, Ravens 70.[/b] As far as the holding call, I initially thought it was weak, but after watching the replay and hearing the NFL say it was the correct call, who am I to argue. Great teams can overcome penalties, good teams use them as an excuse for losing.

The Ravens lost that game in the 3rd quarter, and it had nothing to do with penalties.
[/quote]

We went over that and I don't believe Fly thinks the refs cost the Ravens the game.

[Marc2k6]

You are correct, there is a C O N spiracy but where your theory in my opinion is wrong is that it has nothing to do with the ref's. The person's involved in this conspiracy wear purple. I get it, out of frustration Raven's fan's look at possibly questionable plays where there was a flag thrown as the reason why the Ravens loss a game. Sorry people but once again you are wrong as usual, refs make calls and players make plays. The Raven's lost their last game because the did not do a damn thing in the second half but turn over the ball, fumble the ball and drop the ball. Oh yeah I forgot the Ravens also scored 3 points in the second half. The only people that think of the Ravens highly enough to even think of some type of conspiracy theory are Ravens fans. Look at the plays that the Ravens did not make to win games and that is your conspiracy!

[PeRK82]

[quote name='webb#21' timestamp='1295286556' post='612764']
Penalties are frustrating but I'm more disappointed with the 2nd half execution or lack thereof. Up 21-7 I felt like the most critical drive was the 2nd half opening because the steelers had the ball first. They used almost 5 minutes and basically punted it back to us around our own 15-20 or so. That was our golden opportunity to kill a bunch of clock and keep the crowd out. Instead our line folded and Rice fumbled.

I think we worry way too much about pittsburgh. It seems like we put sooo much emphasis on how to beat them and tell them to hiss off that we psych ourselves out. The offense needs to take a page from the defense and have someone rise up as the emotional leader to compliment Lewis. When the D is on the sidelines and adjustments are needed Ray has them huddled all the time. We never see that with Flacco. He sometimes talks to Jim Zorn but after Rice's fumble the whole offense looked like a deer in headlights. Like oh no what do we do now. This is where Flacco's and Harbaugh's 3 years young careers are hurting or lacking right now. The steelers have a lot of senior leadership especially with Dick LeBeau and they know how to turn the games.

We don't need to worry about how to beat pittsburgh because we have them beat almost every time. The problem is finishing the game and executing all 4 quarters. If we take care of that then the games take care of themselves. Saturday's game is no different than the Texans game, the Falcons game, the Pats game etc. etc.

I hope this game burns in the players gut and especially now given the Jets won and the AFC title game would have been here in Baltimore. I felt like that was a potential scenario all week long. Time to start planning for next year if there is one. Get some young talent on the team especially at WR. [b]Boldin doesn't look like [/b][b]he's that dominant receiver we thought he would be or maybe Cam just needs [/b[b]]to use him more.[/b] He should be eating the middle of the field alive because that's where he thrives. We definitely need to get younger on the D and a premium needs to be placed on executing all 4 quarters.
[/quote]


With the qoute of Boldin not being the WR everyone thought, i have to disagree, its Cam trust me. Example. look at D. Branch , he was a top reciever for the Pats and went to Seattle and had a lack luster recieving career. Then he goes back to The Patriots and looks like a #1 WR. Its all about how he is used. Its so clear to me now. Cam has got to go, plain and simple, it looks like Josh Mcdaniels is going to the RAMS, so the only other OC i see that will make a differance is Childress

[SteelerRavenHalfbreed]

[quote name='ravenswoman' timestamp='1295383721' post='615705']
...I am curious though, wouldn't it stand to reason, if the odds were for the Steelers to win, the refs have more to gain by betting on the Ravens and then influencing the outcome for the Ravens to win?
[/quote]
The NFL pays referees anywhere from $25,000 to $70,000 per season...not alot of money to use for serious betting. It's part-time work, requires travel, and most have other jobs. Besides...everyone hates you! I doubt there's a huge betting problem among officials....too much at risk (jail-time) and too little to gain to make it worthwhile.

Besides...the bookies would be the first ones to turn in a crooked official. Bookies have big mouths....especially when they smell a cheat. Ask the Pittsburgh TV broadcaster (Nick Perry) who attempted to fix the Daily Number by putting white paint in the lottery balls. Guess who tipped off the State officials when 444 hit? Yep...the bookies. Otherwise, Perry might never have been caught.

I doubt any of the bad calls are due to conspiracies or even favoritism. It's human error in a game played by humans.

[MLGWL20]

Balt D-tackle Mount Cody called 4 holding while Pitt tight end did this right where Mendenhall was running http://twitpic.com/3qedcn
8:04 PM Jan 15th via web posted by @whitlockjason


come on now this was so obvious everyone saw it but cody gets called

[berad]

[quote name='MLGWL20' timestamp='1295396710' post='616353']
Balt D-tackle Mount Cody called 4 holding while Pitt tight end did this right where Mendenhall was running http://twitpic.com/3qedcn
8:04 PM Jan 15th via web posted by @whitlockjason


come on now this was so obvious everyone saw it but cody gets called
[/quote]

Wow that's pretty damn blatant. You know the Ravens are getting an apology from the league for that and a handful of other calls... Not that it makes any difference, now.

[cuervodoro]

[quote name='Ed_Reed_Pick_Six' timestamp='1295335293' post='614588']
It's hardly 'conspiracy theory' material.

Major sports leagues such as the NFL will always favour storied franchises winning again and again. Pittsburgh is one of the (if not the) most popular franchise in professional football.

Exposure to these huge, nationwide, and to an extent, international markets, is most important to the NFL. So of course the Steelers will always get the rub of the green against the Ravens, per se.
[/quote]

Valid, significant point and the same holds for the FIFA governing body fro World Cup Soccer.

[cuervodoro]

[quote name='admartian' timestamp='1295345137' post='614665']
The calls were terrible. I don't care if the other team got called for a hundred penalties, but if they're mostly inconsequential and/or at non-crucial points, then they're essentially hiccups.

P.I call, non-hold on Webb TD, and non calls throughout REALLY hurt.

However, I believe Cam Cameron is the main reason we lost, and the coverage on that 3rd down conversion.
[/quote]

Mental lapses, poor, uncharacteristic judgement, simple boneheadedness can be the result of adverse playing conditions, poor calls and poorly executed strategy/Cam. As one writer aptly noted in yesterday's paper, the plays were incoherent, designed specifically and separately around individual skills.

[cuervodoro]

[quote name='Rinbee' timestamp='1295361220' post='614865']
Refs are human like the rest of us and subject to bias. It is possible that questionable flags are thrown at critical times out of an error in judgment, incompetence, or even a desire to change the outcome of the game. It happened in the NBA. But I will point out that flags on critical plays get magnified and we give them more attention than they may deserve. If a game were played dead even, it’s a lot easier and maybe justifiable to question a questionable call. (This is why I believe if replay is going to be used some of the time it should be used all of the time.) But, when you have a game where the Ravens can muster only 28 yards in an entire half and the Steelers TOP is 9 minutes longer than the Raven’s, the Ravens allowed that call to be more significant than it should have been. In other words, shame on the refs for a bad call, if it was, but shame on the Ravens even more for putting themselves in a position where a penalty and two incomplete passes became the focal points of the game. Were the fumbles and 3 and outs the result of bad officiating? Again, there may be some bias, some preference for Pitt over Balt, but the Ravens allowed it to reach a point were a few mistakes became the reason for losing a game.
[/quote]


Your comments are well-formed, and have logical basis; however, may contain inaccuracies. Another crucial call, causing substantial point/psychological-morale set-back may occurred. You correctly identified Webb's devastating call back. I may be incorrect, but uncertain abou the "holding" call at ~ 7-6 yard Steeler end zone. Raven's valiantly held off the Steelers, but lost to the first down holding call. This was even after holding them again to a second or third down, amazing. That kinda of crap will wear you down everywhich way.

[McBoller]

[quote name='Perfekt' timestamp='1295284334' post='612619']
Suggs has two really bad calls against CIN the first game so its just really some refs preference of not liking us. I dont think its a conspiracy so much as it is we are viewed as bullys an the villian.
[/quote]
Isnt that the exact persona Suggs is going for? When asked about his derogatory shirt he wore b4 the Pit game he said he liked being the villain bc no one likes the bad guy and he can feel like an underdog. I guess he couldnt handle the pressure of the Ravens being looked upon as top contenders this year and actually getting respect so he has to go out of his way to look mean.

[GTRavens]

[quote name='ravenswoman' timestamp='1295383721' post='615705']
The NFL gains if they feel they have a larger viewership if the Steelers advance not the Ravens. Next years commercial rates are determined by this years TV ratings. So the NFL does gain by engaging in that kind of behavior. I'm not saying they are but it is food for thought.

I am curious though, wouldn't it stand to reason, if the odds were for the Steelers to win, the refs have more to gain by betting on the Ravens and then influencing the outcome for the Ravens to win?
[/quote]

The NFL is so big at this point that the gain is negligible, if it even exists. Every game draws big ratings regardless of who's in it. The Ravens winning would do nothing to change the big picture.

In fact, the most highly rated SNF game of all time wasn't any of the big market NFC East clashes, but the Seattle-St. Louis game at the end of this season. The Titans-Jaguars MNF game, which was a recipe for a ratings disaster in every way, drew more viewers than an ALCS game with the Yankees facing Cliff Lee. People will watch any game now, so the "need" to do that doesn't exist anymore. The risk is WAAAAAYYYY too big for it to be worth it.

I don't even get why people think the officiating was so horrible. Officiating is so much more difficult than armchair Qbs make it out to be, but that's not even the point. The holding call was touchy but a still revealed that it was in fact holding. And if the refs were dead set on pushing Pittsburgh into the next round, I'm pretty sure that Big Ben fumble would have been ruled a pass, since everyone not wearing a zebra uniform thought it was. Like I said before, we think they're out to get us because it's what we're looking for (confirmation bias). We don't notice when things don't go in Pittsburgh's favor (see the 2008 Chargers game or the "incompletion" against the Colts), only when they do.

[ravens13]

Many people say that errors made by the team make the difference in a game, or that you should be able to overcome bad officiating. How far do you extend this argument? One bad call should be overcome? Two? How about every play? I strongly disagree with this argument. The fact is that every play matters, especially in a league that has a goal of parity.

In a league full of teams with relatively even talent (as the nfl has designed it) the referees can decide the outcome of most games (with bad calls and bad non-calls), and the popular teams and/or the teams with superstar players usually win, especially in the playoffs. The nfl's ratings go up for these games when popular teams play, or when a team with a superstar like Peyton Manning plays.

The nfl is a business and I am now convinced that profits are the priority (as it is in most businesses) and everything else, including fairness and honor, are secondary. For those who think there are too many people to keep quiet in a conspiracy, it doesn't take a whole group of players, or a mandate from the league office. It only takes one referee to decide most games, and I think that at least some of these guys making less than 70k per year and having to work a second job during the week can be and are bought by the league or by someone else. The referees answer to no one. They cannot be interviewed and have a spokesman who explains why they were right...every time, no matter how absurd the call. Game fixing happened in the nba for a decade before that was discovered. How many more game fixing cases are out there that have not been discovered? I'll bet there are a lot in the nfl. If the nfl returns in September, I won't be watching, and it has nothing to do with the lockout. Maybe the UFL and/or the MLS can actually get some airtime if there is no nfl season.

[berad]

Considering Peyton Manning and the Colts' infamous playoff struggles [i](nice way of saying he/they have choked)[/i], it'd be pretty tough to consider that the NFL is fixing games for them in the post-season. By the same token, the Cowboys, Raiders, Bears, Chiefs, Redskins, Eagles, and other big/huge-market teams have struggled, relatively, in both the regular and post season in the past few years.

If your theory is valid, then why do smaller-market teams like the Ravens, Bucs, and Patriots [i](at the time)[/i] come away with titles in the past decade?

Referees may be given a large amount of power and freedom, that's the same in any professional sport, and I was with you on that point. They do. And the teams have to live with their judgement. It's the same in any sport, ever. But there is not a league-wide conspiracy theory. Not a chance.

[ravens13]

I think that there are two different kinds of fixing. Perhaps I didn't make that clear. There's "fixing as we all know it" and there's "doing what you can to appear impartial while favoring one team or another (subconsciously or not)." My main point is that in a league with parity, more often than not a team rewarded this second type of fixing will win. Some say you should be able to overcome bad calls, which I think is an absurd argument. I agree that the nfl would be unwise to fix a game, because the risk that it will be discovered and will blow up in their face is too great. However, I do believe that somebody in at least some games is doing what they can to assist certain teams, whether it be a single referee or not. Referees don't ever seem to be disciplined, fired, etc. for horrible calls.

Of course, sometimes a team will win despite this (ie. the 2000 ravens, the 2002 bucs), but they shouldn't have to win despite anything. It happened this past week as I watched North Carolina lose despite getting every call, and I watched Duke get blown out despite getting every call. Kentucky and Arizona overcame poor officiating, but until something is done about this problem in the nfl I can't dismiss the possibility that someone associated with the league itself is somehow involved, and I will not watch.

[RL52TheGreatest]

[quote name='ravens13' timestamp='1301428876' post='659922']
I think that there are two different kinds of fixing. Perhaps I didn't make that clear. There's "fixing as we all know it" and there's "doing what you can to appear impartial while favoring one team or another (subconsciously or not)." My main point is that in a league with parity, more often than not a team rewarded this second type of fixing will win. Some say you should be able to overcome bad calls, which I think is an absurd argument. I agree that the nfl would be unwise to fix a game, because the risk that it will be discovered and will blow up in their face is too great. However, I do believe that somebody in at least some games is doing what they can to assist certain teams, whether it be a single referee or not. Referees don't ever seem to be disciplined, fired, etc. for horrible calls.

Of course, sometimes a team will win despite this (ie. the 2000 ravens, the 2002 bucs), but they shouldn't have to win despite anything. It happened this past week as I watched North Carolina lose despite getting every call, and I watched Duke get blown out despite getting every call. [b]Kentucky and Arizona overcame poor officiating, but until something is done about this problem in the nfl I can't dismiss the possibility that someone associated with the league itself is somehow involved, and I will not watch.[/b]
[/quote]
So what would you have the NFL do about this "problem"? I mean, I've watched many NFL games in which the referees have appeared to favor a certain team, but I'm not sure how they would fix this. Anything short of having robots officiate the game, because they would be programmed to be impartial, is not gonna completely eliminate the problem (and even then, you would have people saying that the robots were hi-jacked before the game to give out all bad calls to their fav. team lol).

Maybe there is some kind of secret conspiracy or maybe there's not...all I know is I'm gonna keep watching football and supporting the Ravens regardless.

[berad]

[quote name='ravens13' timestamp='1301428876' post='659922']
I think that there are two different kinds of fixing. Perhaps I didn't make that clear. There's "fixing as we all know it" and there's "doing what you can to appear impartial while favoring one team or another (subconsciously or not)." My main point is that in a league with parity, more often than not a team rewarded this second type of fixing will win. Some say you should be able to overcome bad calls, which I think is an absurd argument. I agree that the nfl would be unwise to fix a game, because the risk that it will be discovered and will blow up in their face is too great. However, I do believe that somebody in at least some games is doing what they can to assist certain teams, whether it be a single referee or not. Referees don't ever seem to be disciplined, fired, etc. for horrible calls.

Of course, sometimes a team will win despite this (ie. the 2000 ravens, the 2002 bucs), but they shouldn't have to win despite anything. It happened this past week as I watched North Carolina lose despite getting every call, and I watched Duke get blown out despite getting every call. Kentucky and Arizona overcame poor officiating, but until something is done about this problem in the nfl I can't dismiss the possibility that someone associated with the league itself is somehow involved, and I will not watch.
[/quote]

Do you have any proof of this? Teams receive favorable/unfavorable calls every year, regardless of their popularity. "The Tuck Rule" is a prime example. The Raiders fan-base was [i](maybe still is)[/i] larger than the Patriots, and the Raiders had more "stars", but the Patriots received that very favorable call. Pats advance to the Super Bowl and win it.

The NFL responds to teams trying to gain competitive edges [i](Spygate, steroids, tampering, etc.)[/i] pretty harshly - are those also pre-planned? I could come up with countless examples but you seem pretty set. Any and every sport has the possibility of being "fixed". I don't know. I'll keep watching the NFL.

EDIT: But we [i]know[/i] the Steelers get the calls every time but, really, they do...

[ellicottraven]

hmmm... interesting prospect! I have relentlessly posted on several threads on NFL.com and ESPN.com bringing to light the fact that Rooney has the Zebras on his payroll! While this might not be reality there is enough evidence watching Steeler games that they tend to get the majority of controversial calls in their favor! This could not be providence as providence is impartial! Therefore there is merit to the notion that the Steelers and the NFL work in concert with one another to make sure they win most games with really good teams vis-a-vis the refs!
Now one has to understand that this is a big business - this NFL! This entails big TV revenues which in turn entails big viewership driven by ad revenues. This is a vicious cycle and a few referee calls here and there to make sure the wheel is turning smoothly isn't that much of a nuisance is it? Think about it and it will slowly become clear as it did for me!
BTW welcome to the club of conspiracy theorists! sometimes the theories pan out don't they? Once they do they are no longer considered conspiracies!

[TheRavenouseD2008]

Lets see after this new rule no more hines war tds on the 5 you know his field is only 95 yards long right . but not with the new TD review inside 2 mins of half and game ALL TDS will be reviewed now we ravens fans hate the commercials I know but I will sacrafice a commercial or 4 for the chance to have Overturned TDs of the Ketchup Ward I relish the thought now hehe I am punny

[RavenInVA]

Part of me agrees but then another part of me says that we pretty much gave them them our last three games and the other part of me wants to go to sleep because it's 3 am.

But before I do I will say that the vicious cycle has been well documented and everybody knows you can't throw a rock 20 feet without hitting a Steeler fan (hmmm not a bad idea) but having realized that, the only way to 'even the playing field' is to win.

That's very difficult to do when the zebras have Steelers underpants on and using their terrible towels as flags. The Steelers have the most rings of all the teams in the NFL which brings about a great fan base and even if the league knew that this is going on (and trust me they do) it is still very difficult to control the human element in any scenario. There are refs out there who are Steeler fans, I just ask that they at least do a better job of not making it so obvious.

[gametyme]

I told my buddy 5 days before the Pitt game, if Triplett and his crew are officiating the game "it's already over for the Ravens"

[thewarden86]

This thread has become pretty hysterical.

[TDubbs]

I firmly believe that the Steelers are the benefit of officiating going there way. And not even always against the ravens. Its always going in their favour, i think the nfl is unhappy when steeltown is losing, just an observation.

[ryan23945]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1301599093' post='660568']
This thread has become pretty hysterical.
[/quote]
this thread is Mike approved my friend haha

[img]http://www.azcentral.com/i/sized/3/E/B/e298/j350/PHP495401BE30BE3.jpg[/img]

[hawkprey]

What about the conspiracy of the NFL reducing the role of special teams to keep the Chargers on top of the AFC West again? I'm the one spearheading that notion, so don't question me.