Conspiracy Theorists

[RL52TheGreatest]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1295296888' post='613264']
The replays of that hold sucked, but I jumped off the couch when it ran live. There is no question our guy was held there. None. Some of these analysts need their eyes examined. The Raven player even switched hands for crying out loud.

I also don't buy into the key difference argument. Penalties kill drives and we had more of them. I also agree with the ONLY flag that took points off the board.

Aside from that, I think we can agree this crew was awful for both.

With that said, I hope we get an observant crew for the AFCCG as the Jets DB's love to hold opponent WR's.
[/quote]
Honestly though, and think hard about this, when do you ever see defensive holding called? Even though it probably occurs in every game that's played, you almost never see it called. The fact that it gets called in a crucial situation like that is VERY questionable.

I agree with you that penalties kill drives, but any time that you get 2 dominant defenses like ours, points are at a premium and wiping them off the board because of a penalty is HUGE. Not to mention the kind of momentum swing that comes along with something like that happening. You go in to score, only to get it taken away from you and then the crowd gets fired back up again.

[flynismo]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1295295859' post='613216']<br />I'm disappointed in you Fly. <b>Ravens had 6 penalties for 74 yards</b> and I was screaming for about 3-4 more holds on Harrison.<br /><br /><b>Steelers had 9 penalties for 93 yards</b> and the at least the flag on Hines should been off setting.<br /><br />Flags were not responsible for us coming back from a 14 point deficit. I'll agree the refs were too involved and in the beginning seemed to be calling more obscure stuff than the obvious, but to hear you say you're beginning to buy into any conspiracy is a bit over the top IMO.<br />[/quote]


not saying I'm starting to buy into it; I just dont think it is so ludicrous anymore when people say that.

To you, I realize this all probably sounds stupid, because I hear a lot of Steeler fans complain that Ben doesn't get calls (I agree) and that Harrison doesn't get called for being held (I think thats karma, since I've seen him line up in the neutral zone quite a few times with no flag thrown).

But putting all things aside, do you agree that whether there is some grand conspiracy or not, that the Steelers have benefitted from some very questionable decisions?
Then, in contrast, how many times have we all felt, 'damn, PIT really got jobbed in that game'?

And this is what I have a problem with and would love to know why that is.

In regard to the game, sure PIT got penalized ... But I look more at the timing and effects of the penalties. You mentioned the 9 penalties for 93 yards. I remember one of those penalties being a 15 yard penalty to be assessed after the kickoff after you scored the final TD. Not great, but with only 90+ seconds left in the game, it certainly didnt break anyone's backs or have the same effect as wiping out a crucial TD on a phantom holding call, or calling a 38 yard PI on Wilson which put PIT deep into our red zone, or calling defensive holding on Cody on our 3 yard line while ignoring Kemo's hold on the same play.

I know just as well as well anyone that no matter who thinks what about the officiating, we still had our chance to win and we blew it. Simple as that.

But what gets to me is how it seems when we play, PIT seems to get game changing penalties.

I even said as much to my bro...at half time he said we got this in the bag; I replied that PIT will make the game close, and if they do, they'll get some wierd call late in the game.
He's a skins fan, and hates us (especially Flacco), and after we lost to you a few weeks ago, all I heard from hi8m for weeks is how Flacco is overrated and how we wont beat PIT if we play in the postseason...he is pretty livid about the officiating Sat night, and he's a fan who would love to rub my nose in shiz if he felt we took a beat down.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='RL52TheGreatest' timestamp='1295297726' post='613313']
[b]Honestly though, and think hard about this, when do you ever see defensive holding called?[/b] Even though it probably occurs in every game that's played, you almost never see it called. The fact that it gets called in a crucial situation like that is VERY questionable.

I agree with you that penalties kill drives, but any time that you get 2 dominant defenses like ours, points are at a premium and wiping them off the board because of a penalty is HUGE. Not to mention the kind of momentum swing that comes along with something like that happening. You go in to score, only to get it taken away from you and then the crowd gets fired back up again.
[/quote]

I saw it in a Super Bowl where Jesse Armstead had a pick six and Keith Hamilton was called for it.

Took points off the board.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1295297757' post='613316']
not saying I'm starting to buy into it; I just dont think it is so ludicrous anymore when people say that.

To you, I realize this all probably sounds stupid, because I hear a lot of Steeler fans complain that Ben doesn't get calls (I agree) and that Harrison doesn't get called for being held (I think thats karma, since I've seen him line up in the neutral zone quite a few times with no flag thrown).

But putting all things aside, do you agree that whether there is some grand conspiracy or not, that the Steelers have benefitted from some very questionable decisions?
Then, in contrast, how many times have we all felt, 'damn, PIT really got jobbed in that game'?

And this is what I have a problem with and would love to know why that is.

In regard to the game, sure PIT got penalized ... But I look more at the timing and effects of the penalties. You mentioned the 9 penalties for 93 yards. I remember one of those penalties being a 15 yard penalty to be assessed after the kickoff after you scored the final TD. Not great, but with only 90+ seconds left in the game, it certainly didnt break anyone's backs or have the same effect as wiping out a crucial TD on a phantom holding call, or calling a 38 yard PI on Wilson which put PIT deep into our red zone, or calling defensive holding on Cody on our 3 yard line while ignoring Kemo's hold on the same play.

I know just as well as well anyone that no matter who thinks what about the officiating, we still had our chance to win and we blew it. Simple as that.

But what gets to me is how it seems when we play, PIT seems to get game changing penalties.

I even said as much to my bro...at half time he said we got this in the bag; I replied that PIT will make the game close, and if they do, they'll get some wierd call late in the game.
He's a skins fan, and hates us (especially Flacco), and after we lost to you a few weeks ago, all I heard from hi8m for weeks is how Flacco is overrated and how we wont beat PIT if we play in the postseason...he is pretty livid about the officiating Sat night, and he's a fan who would love to rub my nose in shiz if he felt we took a beat down.
[/quote]

We've been on the bad end of some calls/non calls plenty of times. And I mean where it cost us the game. Most recently against the Jets in week 15 when we were driving for the winning score.

I recall plenty of times us getting apologies from the league after the fact. In the 2000's though, we started (for the most part) becoming good enough to over come them most of the time, so they get forgotten. A prime example here is the Troy Polamalu pick that was taken away in the divisional round in 2005/6 against the Colts.

[benravens1]

[quote name='shawn ny' timestamp='1295284674' post='612636']
I would love to see the stats of how many games the steelers have won due to bad calls in the last 3-4 years. I can think of 2 this year alone.
[/quote]

including post season i'd make a geuss that its in double figures for sure.

[cursona pirate]

ahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The world is changing!!!!!!!!

[Blex64]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1295295859' post='613216']
I'm disappointed in you Fly. [b]Ravens had 6 penalties for 74 yards[/b] and I was screaming for about 3-4 more holds on Harrison.

Steelers had 9 penalties for 93 yards [b]and the at least the flag on Hines should been off setting.[/b]

Flags were not responsible for us coming back from a 14 point deficit. I'll agree the refs were too involved and in the beginning seemed to be calling more obscure stuff than the obvious, but to hear you say you're beginning to buy into any conspiracy is a bit over the top IMO.
[/quote]

The flag on Hines should have been offsetting? Maybe during the play, but he threw him to the ground and was ripping his helmet after the whistle. He deserved the penalty he got.

Harrison held? My ***. He's one of, if not the, dirtiest player in the league.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1295298956' post='613393']
The flag on Hines should have been offsetting? Maybe during the play, but he threw him to the ground and was ripping his helmet after the whistle. He deserved the penalty he got.

Harrison held? My ***. He's one of, if not the, dirtiest player in the league.
[/quote]

Ed had Hines by the facemask too, then two other Ravens jumped on him from there.

The Harrison comment isn't even worth responding to.

[ravenswoman]

[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1295298956' post='613393']

Harrison held? My ***. He's one of, if not [b]the, dirtiest player in the league.[/b]
[/quote]
Hines Ward is the dirtiest player in the NFL, according to a Sports Illustrated poll of 296 players released this week.

this is from 2009, I didn't see one for 2010

[thewarden86]

[quote name='ravenswoman' timestamp='1295299416' post='613424']
Hines Ward is the dirtiest player in the NFL, according to a Sports Illustrated poll of 296 players released this week.

this is from 2009, I didn't see one for 2010
[/quote]

Flacco is by far the dirtiest player in the NFL in 2010.

I keed, I keed.

Seriously though, it's got to be Billy Cundiff. ;-)

[ravenswoman]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1295300287' post='613478']
Flacco is by far the dirtiest player in the NFL in 2010.

I keed, I keed.

Seriously though, it's got to be Billy Cundiff. ;-)
[/quote]
Yeah Billy, he's one bad dude.

[bpytnjr58]

I am certain that there are those in the NFL that would have prefered a Steelers/Patriots showdown for ratings purposes but sometimes even the refs can't change the outcome.

[PuRock]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1295300287' post='613478']
Flacco is by far the dirtiest player in the NFL in 2010.

I keed, I keed.
[/quote]

It's the beard, isn't it?

[thewarden86]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1295300828' post='613499']
It's the beard, isn't it?
[/quote]



Yea, if he'd bathe and shave he wouldn't be so "dirty."

[bpytnjr58]

LOL!!! That is like saying he is tooo emotional!!!

[thewarden86]

[quote name='bpytnjr58' timestamp='1295300772' post='613496']
I am certain that there are those in the NFL that would have prefered a Steelers/Patriots showdown for ratings purposes but sometimes even the refs can't change the outcome.
[/quote]

Well, the Jets are the darlings now.

I still wouldn't have minded a shot at the Patriots to be honest. We owe them.

[ravenswoman]

[quote name='bpytnjr58' timestamp='1295300772' post='613496']
I am certain that there are those in the NFL that would have prefered a Steelers/Patriots showdown for ratings purposes but sometimes even the refs can't change the outcome.
[/quote]
Not sure if the Pats would be the bigger draw. The way Rex is so out there in the media, and as polarizing as he can be, I think he would draw a large audience to see if he can back it up or to see him shut up.

[bpytnjr58]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1295300971' post='613505']
Well, the Jets are the darlings now.

I still wouldn't have minded a shot at the Patriots to be honest. We owe them.
[/quote]
Scott is right in that the Pats D couldn't stop a nose bleed...Steelers may have had a good shot at beating them.

[bpytnjr58]

[quote name='ravenswoman' timestamp='1295301039' post='613509']
Not sure if the Pats would be the bigger draw. The way Rex is so out there in the media, and as polarizing as he can be, I think he would draw a large audience to see if he can back it up or to see him shut up.
[/quote]
I hear ya there and New York is the #1 media market but Brady is the poster boy of the NFL..or at least ESPN.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='bpytnjr58' timestamp='1295301149' post='613515']
Scott is right in that the Pats D couldn't stop a nose bleed...Steelers may have had a good shot at beating them.
[/quote]

To be honest, I think the Jets have already played their super bowl yesterday.

[FerrariFan87]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1295301311' post='613517']
To be honest, I think the Jets have already played their super bowl yesterday.
[/quote]

The same could be said for you guys... but I definitely see your point. Should be another slobber-knocker on Sunday night.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1295301383' post='613520']
[b]The same could be said for you guys.[/b].. but I definitely see your point. Should be another slobber-knocker on Sunday night.
[/quote]

Disagree. We've been here much more than the Jets.

[RavensAllTheWay]

Idk dude. I mean, there were bad/missed calls on both sides of this game. There was a questionable PI called against us but there was also a questionable PI called on them right after. Not to mention, there were plenty of blatant missed holds that should've been called on us but somehow missed. I didn't notice any missed holds that should've been called on them, but I'm willing to bet there were some. Just overall, the game had bad calls on both sides.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1295301672' post='613535']
Idk dude. I mean, there were bad/missed calls on both sides of this game. There was a questionable PI called against us but there was also a questionable PI called on them right after. Not to mention, there were plenty of blatant missed holds that should've been called on us but somehow missed. I didn't notice any missed holds that should've been called on them, but I'm willing to bet there were some. Just overall, the game had bad calls on both sides.
[/quote]

I agree. We both had to fight through the officiating.

[Hjulmann]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1295300971' post='613505']
Well, the Jets are the darlings now.

I still wouldn't have minded a shot at the Patriots to be honest.[b] We owe them.[/b]
[/quote]
Sure did last game

[ryan23945]

me personally, i believe, ALL sports r fixed in some way, tim donahee just proved it, i havent been able to watch bball since when seeing a questionable call that makes u think how in the hell could that have been called, with out thinkin the game is fixed, u cant tell me that with all the money floating around and all the money spent and riding on games that it isnt fixed, dont get me wrong, i love sports, but hey, i dont know anyone who isnt a pit fan that doesnt absolutley dispise pitt, th eleague needs villians, nfl has created one, at least we know bens rings r cheats hahahaha

[thewarden86]

[quote name='Hjulmann' timestamp='1295301885' post='613543']
Sure did last game
[/quote]

Tell me about it.

[cuervodoro]

Hey Ward86, your'e back. I was warned, myself. Ok, just shows how committed and impassioned we are about the sport.

You realized, and I wrote in my post recognition for Roethlesberger great QB accomplishment, and congratulation upon victory; although, much of our agony in defeat was self-inflicted.

We'll have more match ups of course. Hopefully, Baltimore can advance at least once before the decade's end.

As for officiating, yeah, initially thought it was partial, and too many calls against Ravens. Suppose that's normal fan response. The consensus out and shared by many fans alike, is that the officiaing in general was crappy.

I can honestly say only that I do not know. I'm calmer, now, but without reviewing the game tapes, can't say much.

Good luck, and thanks we always learn from our best opponent.

P.S. Those comments about Ben's knees being shaky, unstable and crinkly at the miniscuses were only to rile and unnerve you, sorry. Boy it worked. Ben still delived after we brought the oak tree down several times!

[thewarden86]

[quote name='cuervodoro' timestamp='1295319845' post='614329']
Hey Ward86, your'e back. I was warned, myself. Ok, just shows how committed and impassioned we are about the sport.

You realized, and I wrote in my post recognition for Roethlesberger great QB accomplishment, and congratulation upon victory; although, much of our agony in defeat was self-inflicted.

We'll have more match ups of course. Hopefully, Baltimore can advance at least once before the decade's end.

As for officiating, yeah, initially thought it was partial, and too many calls against Ravens. Suppose that's normal fan response. The consensus out and shared by many fans alike, is that the officiaing in general was crappy.

I can honestly say only that I do not know. I'm calmer, now, but without reviewing the game tapes, can't say much.

Good luck, and thanks we always learn from are best opponent.
[/quote]

Losing is painful. You should have seen me after the last Jets game. Heck, I was getting pretty angry in the first half of our game. No explanations necessary. Thank you Buddy.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1295295859' post='613216']
I'm disappointed in you Fly. [b]Ravens had 6 penalties for 74 yards[/b] and I was screaming for about 3-4 more holds on Harrison.

[b]Steelers had 9 penalties for 93 yards[/b] and the at least the flag on Hines should been off setting.

Flags were not responsible for us coming back from a 14 point deficit. I'll agree the refs were too involved and in the beginning seemed to be calling more obscure stuff than the obvious, but to hear you say you're beginning to buy into any conspiracy is a bit over the top IMO.
[/quote]

I will agree that the early penalty on Ward should have been offsetting. I could argue that the phantom holding call down at our goal line should have been offsetting as well since everyone clearly saw the Steelers linemen with his arm around JJ's throat, taking him to the ground.

Yardage does not tell the whole story though. With penalties, it is more about the timing of the penalty and what is negated by it (such as a TD or 1st down) or given by it (such as the one that gave the Steelers 4 more pops at the end zone).

There were some bogus penalties called in this game. IMO it was more the non calls that played a factor. Ward shoving Reed in the back after the play was dead. The head butt to Housh. Keno's FIRST dive into the pile head first after the play was dead. When the other team is allowed to take such shots at your players and there is no flag, it plays on the psyche of the team.