Conspiracy Theorists

[flynismo]

I usually ignore rants about 'the refs are out to get us'. Let's face it, they are human and mistakes will happen. Heck, back in week one we actually benefitted from a very questionable flag (thrown on Braylon for roughing the kicker).

But this game really got my mind thinking about things.

Just over the past three years alone, three of our games versus PIT resulted in a Steeler victory in which a flag played a huge factor in the end result.

Then I think about our games against other teams. For example, our other divisional rivals. In the same time span, not a single one of those games against CLE or CIN were significantly affected by officiating. All in all, our games against those two teams are about as evenly officiated as can be expected, controversial flags are rare and when they do occur they seem to balance out and are never a game changing event.

Then I look over the years ... How many times have the Steelers won games (not just against us) that were influenced by a very questionable flag?

I have to wonder why it is that we have so many games decided by controversial flags when we play PIT, yet our games against other division rivals are uneventful, despite the same ref crews.

Is it a conspiracy?

I'm not so quick to brush that theory off anymore.

[Perfekt]

Suggs has two really bad calls against CIN the first game so its just really some refs preference of not liking us. I dont think its a conspiracy so much as it is we are viewed as bullys an the villian.

[shawn ny]

I would love to see the stats of how many games the steelers have won due to bad calls in the last 3-4 years. I can think of 2 this year alone.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Perfekt' timestamp='1295284334' post='612619']<br />Suggs has two really bad calls against CIN the first game so its just really some refs preference of not liking us. I dont think its a conspiracy so much as it is we are viewed as bullys an the villian.<br />[/quote]


that is a very reasonable and plausible response...but it doesn't seem to satisfy the big picture, because the question still remains 'why does PIT almost always seem to be the benefactors of BS penalties' ?

[Ravens>Steelers]

I don't think it's just our games where the refs aren't great, it's every single game on Sunday. The officiating has never been this bad before. It's terrible. 2010 = worst season for officials ever.

[Ravenite]

It's hard to figure out.

It can be the same way when seeing Flacco get hit and there's no call.

The same can be for Ben because he doesn't get those kind of flags but I think ref's know that somehow, someway, Ben is able to make a play outside the pocket and is a tough guy.

I think it's the overall image that a ref can get from a team. This was the first time in a while that the Ravens were hit with PI flag and so on. I don't recall a false-start, I may be mistaken but with these two teams playing physical, a flag is bound to be called.

Why against us? I don't know...

I told my girlfriend before the game, a flag is gonna come in a critical part of the game and to me the biggest was the one on Webb's return.

It hurts my head digging into the human psych lol

[Ed_Reed20]

When a team doesn't take advantage of opportunities like the Ravens did Saturday night, I'm not going to ponder penalties, even if they were questionable.

Even after choking away the lead, the Ravens could and should have won the game. Even with Smith's penalty(which was the correct call), the Ravens could have taken the deal. Even when they didn't, they had the Steelers in a position to stop them, get their offense back on the field and put together a drive to win the game. None of those things happened and they're the biggest reasons why the Ravens lost.

Go back to the AFC title game in '09. The Ravens are in position to win the game and Daren Stone foolishly decides to get back at a player, wiping away the offense's favorable field position.

Big penalties are a part of many close games. The inability to capitalize on opportunities are bigger issues in my opinion.

[flynismo]

[quote name='shawn ny' timestamp='1295284674' post='612636']I can think of 2 this year alone.<br />[/quote]

my brother (a Skins fan) and I were just talking about that.
The MIA game, the game against TEN where CJ2K's 90 yard TD got called back to a bogus holding call, the game we just played .... They dont even make the playoffs this year if not for those calls @ MIA and TEN. Then a Steve Johnson dropped TD would have put them at 9-7.

[Perfekt]

Im not denying the refs show favoritism towards certain teams. What im saying tho is we generally dont many calls are way. Im not going to say that the calls costed us the game because our players decided not to show up in the second half of that game.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1295285415' post='612681']<br />When a team doesn't take advantage of opportunities like the Ravens did Saturday night, I'm not going to ponder penalties, even if they were questionable. <br /><br />Even after choking away the lead, the Ravens could and should have won the game. Even with Smith's penalty(which was the correct call), the Ravens could have taken the deal. Even when they didn't, they had the Steelers in a position to stop them, get their offense back on the field and put together a drive to win the game. None of those things happened and they're the biggest reasons why the Ravens lost. <br /><br />Go back to the AFC title game in '09. The Ravens are in position to win the game and Daren Stone foolishly decides to get back at a player, wiping away the offense's favorable field position. <br /><br />Big penalties are a part of many close games. The inability to capitalize on opportunities are bigger issues in my opinion.<br />[/quote]

i do realize that our mistakes played as big a role as anything this weekend. The opportunites to win this game despite the questionable calls were there, so we cannot just say the refs screwed us and leave it at that.
However, in a game where we all knew the winner will be determined by one play coming into it, to give them such tremendous advantages cannot be overlooked either. It isn't reasonable to expect us to beat such a good team with that kind of handicap (refs).

Anyway, that really isnt the point of the thread ... It's just the idea that we seem to get the short end of the stick and PIT gets what appears to be preferential treatment when it comes to controversial calls.

[frank cambra]

I still haven't heard the explanation of the defensive holding on Terrence Cody on the goal line run

[webb#21]

Penalties are frustrating but I'm more disappointed with the 2nd half execution or lack thereof. Up 21-7 I felt like the most critical drive was the 2nd half opening because the steelers had the ball first. They used almost 5 minutes and basically punted it back to us around our own 15-20 or so. That was our golden opportunity to kill a bunch of clock and keep the crowd out. Instead our line folded and Rice fumbled.

I think we worry way too much about pittsburgh. It seems like we put sooo much emphasis on how to beat them and tell them to hiss off that we psych ourselves out. The offense needs to take a page from the defense and have someone rise up as the emotional leader to compliment Lewis. When the D is on the sidelines and adjustments are needed Ray has them huddled all the time. We never see that with Flacco. He sometimes talks to Jim Zorn but after Rice's fumble the whole offense looked like a deer in headlights. Like oh no what do we do now. This is where Flacco's and Harbaugh's 3 years young careers are hurting or lacking right now. The steelers have a lot of senior leadership especially with Dick LeBeau and they know how to turn the games.

We don't need to worry about how to beat pittsburgh because we have them beat almost every time. The problem is finishing the game and executing all 4 quarters. If we take care of that then the games take care of themselves. Saturday's game is no different than the Texans game, the Falcons game, the Pats game etc. etc.

I hope this game burns in the players gut and especially now given the Jets won and the AFC title game would have been here in Baltimore. I felt like that was a potential scenario all week long. Time to start planning for next year if there is one. Get some young talent on the team especially at WR. Boldin doesn't look like he's that dominant receiver we thought he would be or maybe Cam just needs to use him more. He should be eating the middle of the field alive because that's where he thrives. We definitely need to get younger on the D and a premium needs to be placed on executing all 4 quarters.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1295286118' post='612734']
i do realize that our mistakes played as big a role as anything this weekend. The opportunites to win this game despite the questionable calls were there, so we cannot just say the refs screwed us and leave it at that.
However, in a game where we all knew the winner will be determined by one play coming into it, to give them such tremendous advantages cannot be overlooked either. It isn't reasonable to expect us to beat such a good team with that kind of handicap (refs).

Anyway, that really isnt the point of the thread ... It's just the idea that we seem to get the short end of the stick and PIT gets what appears to be preferential treatment when it comes to controversial calls.
[/quote]

I'll agree with you about the Steelers frequently benefiting from controversial calls. Hosuhamdnzadeh getting head-butted and Kemo crashing into the pile the first time struck me as egregious non-calls.

[quote name='frank cambra' timestamp='1295286475' post='612759']
I still haven't heard the explanation of the defensive holding on Terrence Cody on the goal line run
[/quote]

There's no need for one. Anybody could be Cody extending his arm out and holding an o-lineman.

[bpytnjr58]

The officiating was brutal on both sides and the hold on the TD return was pathetic but the bottom line is the meltdown in the third quarter cost them the game and there is no way you let a receiver get ahead of you deep on a third and nineteen.

[cuervodoro]

Webb#21, thanks, I really benefitted from your comments.

A psychological advantage exists when calls repeatedly weigh against another team.
Yes, our players are responsable for missed opportunities, cannot performance and concentration be off-set, pllying against stacked adversity: a formidable team, fans and refs?

Who's to say fewer botches would NOT have been resultant?

Concerning Boldin, your comment says it all: "Cam just needs to use him more. He should be eating the middle of the field alive because that's where he thrives."

The fact that Cam does not know when to use or not use Boolden, and strategiies for middle-field or long is rediculous!

We definitely need to get younger on the D, and a premium needs to be placed on executing all 4 quarters.

Yes, our offensive-line did quite welll 1st-half, then, we got jaded and abused by Pitt.

[Corvus]

Not saying anything we all haven't already beat into the ground but 3 TO's were the major reason for the loss.

That said, we all know it was HORRIBLE officiating against BOTH the Ravens and Steelers. I will spend the rest of the year trying to figure out how you get called for holding when you are in the process of blocking a guy to the ground.........

[edreedfromtheu]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1295283654' post='612594']

[b]Then I think about our games against other teams. For example, our other divisional rivals. In the same time span, not a single one of those games against CLE or CIN were significantly affected by officiating.[/b]
[/quote]

You need to go back and watch almost ANY game against the Bengals in the last 5 years.

[Blex64]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1295283654' post='612594']
I usually ignore rants about 'the refs are out to get us'. Let's face it, they are human and mistakes will happen. [b]Heck, back in week one we actually benefitted from a very questionable flag (thrown on Braylon for roughing the kicker[/b]).
[/quote]

Just gonna step in and point out that there were 2 penalties against Braylon on that play. The second was him vaulting over someone on his team to get to our kicker, which is ALSO a penalty. So whether or not he roughed the kicker is, imo, irrelevant. He broke two rules there, not one.

That being said, I've believed for a long time that the NFL wants certain teams to succeed and not others. I don't think they're specifically out to get the Ravens, but I DO think they're out to support the Steelers, the Patriots, the Colts, the Cowboys, and a few other teams.

However, we can't really complain about this loss. We had it wrapped up, and then laid down after halftime. The refs didn't help, but this loss isn't on them.

[ravenswoman]

My first thought when Webb's run was called back was "They're not going to let us win" meaning the Refs.
Don't get me wrong, I saw the melt down just like everyone else. (kind of reminded me of KC's meltdown)


I smile at my friend, she goes a much bigger step further. Having just returned from Vegas she feels all games are rigged. From refs to players. Pointing out; why was Ray Lewis sitting, looking crest fallen, on the sideline when there was still a chance for us to win, why wasn't he pumping up fellow team mates. Ray Rice fumbles? Birke botches a snap? Q and Housh dropping balls? since when do those things happen? Not to mention questionable ref calls, and poor play calling by Cam.

[Moderator 2]

My dad always laughed at me until about the mid-point this year and thinks I'm on to something. Team blew it the second half no doubt in my mind, but when the Ravens play certain teams they have to play and beat the refs as well.
I also think some QB's get more protection then others with the PI calls and Joe is not one of them either is Ben for that matter.

[PuRock]

It's so funny because when Webb was running that ball into the endzone, the other fans in my house were going nuts and I was just holding still, waiting for a flag. I even shushed them. Then when there was nothing popping up on the TV, I raised my hands up and said 'touchdown' and we all started to celebrate again.

But then the flag comes out, seriously, I even allowed time for it?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1295290137' post='612930']
It's so funny because when Webb was running that ball into the endzone, the other fans in my house were going nuts and I was just holding still, waiting for a flag. I even shushed them. Then when there was nothing popping up on the TV, I raised my hands up and said 'touchdown' and we all started to celebrate again.

But then the flag comes out, seriously, I even allowed time for it?
[/quote]

I let out a roar of celebration as Webb ran past Smith and the Steelers player, but then froze the second Lardarius crossed the plane and waited for the flag too.

[funky141]

[quote]When a team doesn't take advantage of opportunities like the Ravens did Saturday night, I'm not going to ponder penalties, even if they were questionable. [/quote]

From a outside source the officials were not a issue during Saturdays game. 3 second half turnovers were...

[webb#21]

[quote name='ravenswoman' timestamp='1295289691' post='612908']
My first thought when Webb's run was called back was "They're not going to let us win" meaning the Refs.
Don't get me wrong, I saw the melt down just like everyone else. (kind of reminded me of KC's meltdown)


I smile at my friend, she goes a much bigger step further. Having just returned from Vegas she feels all games are rigged. From refs to players. Pointing out; why was Ray Lewis sitting, looking crest fallen, on the sideline when there was still a chance for us to win, why wasn't he pumping up fellow team mates. Ray Rice fumbles? Birke botches a snap? Q and Housh dropping balls? since when do those things happen? Not to mention questionable ref calls, and poor play calling by Cam.
[/quote]

I can't help but think the same thing sometimes. Re-watch the video of Webb getting burned deep. He barely jumped and extended his arm. In the first game in Pittsburgh he was beaten deep and leaped straight up to swat a pass away. Read Michael Franzese's book and you'll read him admitting that every outcome is known before the game is played. The Ravens are not a big market team and Pittsburgh is so for the NFL when Pittsburgh is in the post season they make lots of money. We may never know the true answer.

[thewarden86]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1295283654' post='612594']
I usually ignore rants about 'the refs are out to get us'. Let's face it, they are human and mistakes will happen. Heck, back in week one we actually benefitted from a very questionable flag (thrown on Braylon for roughing the kicker).

But this game really got my mind thinking about things.

Just over the past three years alone, three of our games versus PIT resulted in a Steeler victory in which a flag played a huge factor in the end result.

Then I think about our games against other teams. For example, our other divisional rivals. In the same time span, not a single one of those games against CLE or CIN were significantly affected by officiating. All in all, our games against those two teams are about as evenly officiated as can be expected, controversial flags are rare and when they do occur they seem to balance out and are never a game changing event.

Then I look over the years ... How many times have the Steelers won games (not just against us) that were influenced by a very questionable flag?

I have to wonder why it is that we have so many games decided by controversial flags when we play PIT, yet our games against other division rivals are uneventful, despite the same ref crews.

Is it a conspiracy?

I'm not so quick to brush that theory off anymore.
[/quote]

I'm disappointed in you Fly. [b]Ravens had 6 penalties for 74 yards[/b] and I was screaming for about 3-4 more holds on Harrison.

[b]Steelers had 9 penalties for 93 yards[/b] and the at least the flag on Hines should been off setting.

Flags were not responsible for us coming back from a 14 point deficit. I'll agree the refs were too involved and in the beginning seemed to be calling more obscure stuff than the obvious, but to hear you say you're beginning to buy into any conspiracy is a bit over the top IMO.

[rvngirl]

[quote name='ravenswoman' timestamp='1295289691' post='612908']
My first thought when Webb's run was called back was "They're not going to let us win" meaning the Refs.
Don't get me wrong, I saw the melt down just like everyone else. (kind of reminded me of KC's meltdown)


I smile at my friend, she goes a much bigger step further. Having just returned from Vegas [b]she feels all games are rigged[/b]. From refs to players. Pointing out; why was Ray Lewis sitting, looking crest fallen, on the sideline when there was still a chance for us to win, why wasn't he pumping up fellow team mates. Ray Rice fumbles? Birke botches a snap? Q and Housh dropping balls? since when do those things happen? Not to mention questionable ref calls, and poor play calling by Cam.
[/quote]

I feel the same way.....

[RL52TheGreatest]

[quote name='thewarden86' timestamp='1295295859' post='613216']
I'm disappointed in you Fly. [b]Ravens had 6 penalties for 74 yards[/b] and I was screaming for about 3-4 more holds on Harrison.

[b]Steelers had 9 penalties for 93 yards[/b] and the at least the flag on Hines should been off setting.

Flags were not responsible for us coming back from a 14 point deficit. I'll agree the refs were too involved and in the beginning seemed to be calling more obscure stuff than the obvious, but to hear you say you're beginning to buy into any conspiracy is a bit over the top IMO.
[/quote]
I don't recall any of the Steeler penalties taking points off the board though. That's a key difference when you're talking about which team got the worst end of the officiating (even though the Steelers obviously got penalized more than the Ravens).

The officiating in this particular game was bad on both sides though so I'm not gonna say there's any conspiracy theory to be had. They called penalties that shouldn't have been called (defensive holding...REALLY?!) and missed ones that should have been called (late hits).

[thewarden86]

[quote name='RL52TheGreatest' timestamp='1295296459' post='613247']
I don't recall any of the Steeler penalties taking points off the board though. That's a key difference when you're talking about which team got the worst end of the officiating (even though the Steelers obviously got penalized more than the Ravens).

The officiating in this particular game was bad on both sides though so I'm not gonna say there's any conspiracy theory to be had. They called penalties that shouldn't have been called (defensive holding...REALLY?!) and missed ones that should have been called (late hits).
[/quote]

The replays of that hold sucked, but I jumped off the couch when it ran live. There is no question our guy was held there. None. Some of these analysts need their eyes examined. The Raven player even switched hands for crying out loud.

I also don't buy into the key difference argument. Penalties kill drives and we had more of them. I also agree with the ONLY flag that took points off the board.

Aside from that, I think we can agree this crew was awful for both.

With that said, I hope we get an observant crew for the AFCCG as the Jets DB's love to hold opponent WR's.

[ravensgirl20]

I'm not going to deny bad calls. I've questioned them and looked to those who know more then I for answers. I still come back to what I said early in the season. We have HAVE to, as a team, control what we are able to control so that those calls aren't big factors in the game. We can control turnovers. We can better protect a 2 touchdown lead. We can play agressive to gain another touchdown to improve that lead. IF we had done those things then some of those calls couldn't have hurt us so badly. What I know is that the refs aren't going to stop, Pittsburgh isn't going to change anytime soon so we change what we can to get the win.

[ravensgirl20]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1295290137' post='612930']
It's so funny because when Webb was running that ball into the endzone, the other fans in my house were going nuts and I was just holding still, waiting for a flag. I even shushed them. Then when there was nothing popping up on the TV, I raised my hands up and said 'touchdown' and we all started to celebrate again.

But then the flag comes out, seriously, I even allowed time for it?
[/quote]

It's funny you should say that. The boys and I went wild. My husband had left the room for something, he came running we quickly told him what happened and I added..."wait for the flag" It hit me hard. And no sooner had it left my mouth there it was. My husband yelled and left the room again.