[Blogs] ‘It Looked Like A Fumble’ To Harbaugh

[BR News]

For the first time in Head Coach John Harbaugh’s tenure, the Ravens were faced with a “tuck rule” situation.

That may be why Harbaugh joked that he needed a refresher on the rule’s details when officials overturned what they originally called a fumble when Ravens cornerback Lardarius Webb screamed into the Chiefs’ backfield and knocked the ball out of Kansas City quarterback Matt Cassel’s hand. After a Chiefs’ challenge and review, referee Mike Carey ruled it an incomplete pass.

“When that happened, my thoughts on the tuck rule were, ‘What’s the tuck rule, again? How does that work?’” Harbaugh said with a laugh in his Monday press conference. “Little bit confusing. It looked like a fumble to me.

“The tuck rule – that’s one of the more confusing rules in football.”

Per the tuck rule, made famous in a 2001 playoff game between the New England Patriots and Oakland Raiders, a quarterback’s throwing motion begins when he raises the ball in his hand and begins to move his arm forward and doesn’t end until he tucks the ball back against his body.

Therefore, Cassel’s flub was actually an incomplete pass. Chiefs ball.

The Ravens also sent film of a play they think should have been whistled.

Late in the second quarter, quarterback Joe Flacco ran 13 yards for a first down and was in a full slide when Chiefs linebacker Jovan Belcher hit him squarely in the head.

Flacco did receive the benefit of a roughing-the-passer penalty later in the game when a Kansas City defender brushed against his knee, but the Ravens would like an explanation on the former instance.

“They got the one – the penalty to Joe in the knee,” said Harbaugh. “That was a good call. The helmet-to-helmet on the slide, Joe is protected at that point from a head shot. And then the other one, that speaks for itself. Everybody saw that.”

[url=http://blogs.baltimoreravens.com/2011/01/10/it-looked-like-a-fumble-to-harbaugh/]View the full article[/url]

[BillicksEGO]

That tuck rule is a joke..You make a rule that is only possible to call in the split second between a QB throwing the ball, or putting it away? C'mon man. They better re-visit that one. It's either an incomplete pass, or a fumble. This Tom Brady rule book is getting crazy.

[Guest Mr. Nobody]

looked like fumble to all of us, tuck rule is so silly

[BMoreHEMI]

Even Pereira admitted that it's time to change the tuck rule. Good thing that it didn't affect the outcome of the game

[poedacrow]

...more appropriately, the "Tom Brady Rule"...but I'm not whining about it... looked like a fumble to me too.

[Rice Rice Baby]

@BillicksEGO: You're 100% correct.

The people have spoken: DOWN WITH THE TUCK RULE!

[faithfulravenfan#1]

keeping it real it was a fumble

[William Earley]

When a quarterback starts his arm forward and stops and tucks the ball in the curl of his arm and the D hits the ball and it pops out, it's a fumble. They blew the call in New England and the Raiders got robbed. When a quarterback starts that forward motion, than that is a pass. Anything else a Quarterback does with the ball[ Non throwing motion] should be called a fumble.

[Yowhodee]

I hate how the league has to define every thing. It should be simple, did he have the ball, yes, did he get up off the ground with the ball, no you say...FUMBLE!! none of this knee...elbow..butt..etc..down first stuff.

[MagicianCamille]

They made this rule to back their ruling in the Brady game. If they had ruled the other way then this rule would be different.

[Ed_Reezy]

My problem is that Cassle's arm was past the normal release point if he was going to throw the football. He was obviously beginning to tuck the ball (or completing a pump fake). Why was it called an incomplete pass, he wasn't technically passing (tucking or pump faking), so if its not, by rule, a fumble shouldn't it at least be ruled a sac?

[Ravens_forlife]

That was a fumble, Cassel was about to throw it and saw he was gonna get clobbered so he tried to put it away and it got knocked out. This is just another rule made to protect the pretty boy in the NFL.

[Mick0311]

@MagicianCamille No, the rule was written that way prior to the Brady play. The Refs were right. The rule is absolutely ridiculous, but they called it fairly. I have a feeling it will be addressed sometime soon.

[Free Agent]

This is a ridiculous rule because if the hit doesn't come until a second later, the quarterback DOES have time to pull the ball down, and the ball is forced out then it would be ruled a fumble. So they are taking away the fumble because the hit came a second earlier? That seems bogus to me.

[bmorebully212]

With all opinions given, the "tuck rule" is CRAP! A smart QB can utilize this rule by pump-faking and then just simply letting the ball go (on purpose) while being hit to simply avoid a loss in yardage. Thats CRAP! A fumble is a fumble. Is the ball in your hand? YES! Were you throwing the ball away? NO! Were you hit and removed from the BALL? YES! *drum roll....* FUMBLE! (Play Football....)

[ThisGirlLovesFootball2]

Tuck rule, aka Cry Brady rule!
It WAS a fumble!

Non-call on the helmet to helmet hit on Flacco..Non-call on the guy who tried to rip Heap's helmet off !

All in all we didn't lose ,so piss on the ref's and their Brady rules !

[purple.n.black]

It was the right call. But the call shouldn't exist to begin with. The tuck rule should be once the QB starts to tuck the ball away or once the forward motion of the ball/arm stops, a loose ball would be a fumble. And that is what happened. But I rather have something like this happen because a stupid rule called correctly than a play called wrong.
But while this rule exists, Flacco should start taking advantage of it. He definitely has troubles holding onto the ball.

[thatlazyguy]

Why are people retarded?? The tuck rule is not confusing at all! Cassel fumbled the ball. If his intention was to throw that ball and continued to throw it unabated, he would have thrown the ball straight down into the ground. The Tom Brady incident was a little more questionable, but in the end it was easy to see that his intention was not to pass the ball. Also, Mike Carrey's crew was horrendous. There were tons of holding penalties and unsportsmanlike conduct penalties that should have been called on both sides. I cannot believe they were one of the top rated crews to advance to the playoffs.

[touchdownwins]

I say..kill the tuck rule..the quarterback can fumble just as good as anyone else..it doesn't happen enough to really be a rule..another let's please Tom Brady rule

[Malkavian Raven]

Unless the ball has actually left the passer's hand in a forward motion, it should be a fumble -- period.

[Irish Girl]

I'm pretty sure it was a fumble. If they sent that video in, the helmet to helmet hit on Flacco, they should send in the video of Todd Heap getting his head nearly yanked off!

[RavensFanoftheCentury]

Think about this for a second. The quarterback has an arch, if the ball is behind him, and he is hit, it is ruled a fumble. If the ball is in front of his body and he is hit, it is an incomplete pass. Seems pretty simple right? Wrong... I'd like to see a quarterback have intentions of passing the ball, when the balls nose is perpendicular to the ground, he would be spiking the ball if that was the case. The quarterbacks obvious intentions when the ball is at that point in the parabola, is to tuck and protect the ball. If the quarterback is trying to protect the ball, he is no longer passing. Therefore, it is NOT an incomplete pass, it is a fumble as if it was popped out on a running back or wide receiver. I can't believe the referees could see this any other way.

As far as the tugging on Heap's helmet, How much you wanna bet if it was a certain Quarterback up north with a funny haircut, that player would have been ejected from the game? I don't agree with protecting the quarterback through rules whatsoever. If your quarterback is afraid to get hurt by having his helmet brushed or knee whiffed, then put in the hungry backup, and sit the crybaby... but no referees protect the quarterbacks... well, the superbowl winning quarterbacks anyway

And finally, in conclusion, Go Ravens!

[Rinbee]

Some rules are ridiculously complicated. Make it simple. It is not a PASS until it leaves the QB's hand. Even if the arm is moving forward, if the ball is still in his hand and is knocked out, it is a fumble. This takes a lot of judgement out of the call. In the hand or not. Forget about motion or direction or tucking. Tucking should apply to shirt tails only, not passes.

[ThisGirlLovesFootball2]

Well i think we all agree the "tuck rule" is nonsense.
All in agreement click the green plus ..

Now that being said .Let's get focused on the Squeelers !
we have a big game ahead , the world will be watching ! Ravens are coming home with a WIN , we want this so bad ,nothing is going to stand in our way !!!! NOTHING !

SO LET'S GO RAVENS !

[jonny raven]

If we are going by the rule book on the "tuck rule", if the incomplete pass goes forward it should be considered intentional grounding if no one is in the area. If the pass goes backwards, it should be considered a fumble if it hits the ground. Cassel's pass went backwards the second it left its hand. Tuck rule or not, it should be a fumble...at least in my interpretation of the rule book.

[RavensFanThick&Thin]

The call was right but if I believe it would be more satisfying to Ravens fans at this point in time to see it altered to say when the QB is clearly passed the point of throwing, then it would be a fumble. The problem with this is that it brings another objective decision into play, which people clearly hate. It forces refs to to make arbitrary decision based on the angle of the release and the intention of the QB. What about someone like Vick? He clearly doesn't ever comepetely "tuck." He carries it like a loaf of bread...As far as Flacco's helmet to helmet, the defender will more than likely be fined but something like this could change the outcome in close games which next week will probably be.

[cobrajet]

Bottom line is: The tuck rule should go.

[Jaxasz]

Tuck Rule my ***... There just scared of us... They cant handle the Ravens... We Hit Hard, And Quik... Bottom line. We won. It dont matter now.

30-7 ... Chiefs Will remember us.

[Displaced Raven]

On another note: is it me or is Webb well on his way to becoming a shutdown corner?

[HDG-52]

It was a fumble and yes Webb is on his way !!!!!!!