Something Very Interesting

[scrock]

The new O-coordinator needs to be just that, an offensive coordinator, look at the consistency with guys like peyton manning, he has the same O-coordinator for 10 years or whatever. Basically, we need to get a guy that wants to stay a coordinator and not do a nice job for a year or two and move on to be a head coach. If that's realistic....consistency is key, Joe needs to grow in the offense and we need to find one that suites his skills.

[Jabara]

[quote name='PWNEDbyDEANO' timestamp='1294109098' post='592676']
I agree, but [b]Cam tends to try different things when what he's already doing is working[/b]. The running game has been left for a few plays when Rice pulls a couple of five or six yard gains.
[/quote]
I've had similar thoughts about Cam. It's as if he's trying to always stay one step ahead of the other team, when really he almost outsmarts himself.
That's just the way it appears sometimes, I'm not accusing him of anything, it's just an observation.

Honestly, we've got 4 new wide receivers, and I'm not sure any of them really got comfortable with the system yet.
It's not like they haven't played in a similar system before, with the possible exception of D. Reed.
Therefore we may not be seeing a lot of quick short passes or slants because they may not have had time to get each players timing down with Joe.

It does appear Cam is conservative with Joe, however, it's the playoffs now so if he doesn't let it loose, he'll possibly have to start working on his resume.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Jabara' timestamp='1294121124' post='592848']
I've had similar thoughts about Cam. It's as if he's trying to always stay one step ahead of the other team, when really he almost outsmarts himself.
That's just the way it appears sometimes, I'm not accusing him of anything, it's just an observation.

Honestly, we've got 4 new wide receivers, and I'm not sure any of them really got comfortable with the system yet.
It's not like they haven't played in a similar system before, with the possible exception of D. Reed.
[b]Therefore we may not be seeing a lot of quick short passes or slants because they may not have had time to get each players timing down with Joe. [/b]

It does appear Cam is conservative with Joe, however, it's the playoffs now so if he doesn't let it loose, he'll possibly have to start working on his resume.
[/quote]

Boldin and Mason have been able to work with Joe since training camp, as has Stallworth. It's not a timing issue in my opinion, it's that Cam doesn't have those plays in his play-book.

[Jabara]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1294121403' post='592850']
Boldin and Mason have been able to work with Joe since training camp, as has Stallworth. It's not a timing issue in my opinion, it's that [b]Cam doesn't have those plays in his play-book.[/b]
[/quote]
All emotions aside, do you honestly believe that?

[flynismo]

Said it a million times before, and saying it again ... we're going as far as Flacco and the defense takes us.That means put the game in Flacco's hands (air it out) and trust that the defense will hold on to the lead Flacco gives us. With the QB and WR that we have, it aint rocket science.

[BohBalmerOsbohs]

stallworth has been used how many times this year? 5 or 6? the reverse plays and bomb pass Vs pitt in Baltimore.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Jabara' timestamp='1294122465' post='592854']<br />All emotions aside, do you honestly believe that?<br />[/quote]

I wonder what his playbook looks like myself. Now's the time for him to open up that playbook and show off his arsenal, if it does indeed exist.

[Jabara]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1294123640' post='592863']
I wonder what his playbook looks like myself. Now's the time for him to open up that playbook and show off his arsenal, if it does indeed exist.
[/quote]
Yeah, I agree, as I said above Cam might be outsmarting himself.
After this last game against the Bengals, I have not heard more disapproval of Cam, from the players in the locker room or in pressers, than all season.
Two that really stood out was Mason basically bringing up Cams name without being asked about him and Flacco apparently saying something along the lines of wanting to play a role in the offense.
I stripped those statements down so they don't sound as harsh, but in the context they were used, they clearly are not satisfied with Cam.
Even Harbs seemed to hint at it after the game, and made it fairly clear in his presser today, with his Harbstalk, that he must have [i]spoken[/i] to Cam...

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Jabara' timestamp='1294122465' post='592854']
All emotions aside, do you honestly believe that?
[/quote]

Yes! If they were in his play-book, why has Q rarely gotten a slant thrown his way anywhere on the field? Why does Houshmandzadeh have more screen passes thrown to him than Q when Boldin is the better player after the catch? Why does Stallworth have two catches on the season as opposed to five carries? Why is it that when Cam goes four wide, everyone runs a fly pattern?

[quote name='BohBalmerOsbohs' timestamp='1294123548' post='592861']
stallworth has been used how many times this year? 5 or 6? the reverse plays and bomb pass Vs pitt in Baltimore.
[/quote]

Stallworth also caught a 15-yard pass against the Panthers and has carried the ball 5 times for 45 yards.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Jabara' timestamp='1294124143' post='592870']<br />Yeah, I agree, as I said above Cam might be outsmarting himself. <br />After this last game against the Bengals, I have not heard more disapproval of Cam, from the players in the locker room or in pressers, than all season.<br />Two that really stood out was Mason basically bringing up Cams name without being asked about him and Flacco apparently saying something along the lines of wanting to play a role in the offense. <br />I stripped those statements down so they don't sound as harsh, but in the context they were used, they clearly are not satisfied with Cam. <br />Even Harbs seemed to hint at it after the game, and made it fairly clear in his presser today, with his Harbstalk, that he must have <i>spoken</i> to Cam...<br />[/quote]


You give him too much credit. Outsmarting yourself implies having the intelligence to eventually understand that what you are doing isn't working the way you so smartly drew things up, and make the appropriate adjustments. Cam does not do that. He's not nearly as smart as he or others think he is. Ask anyone in SD, MIA or BAL what they think about playing under his command.

[Jabara]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1294124168' post='592871']
Yes! If they were in his play-book, why has Q rarely gotten a slant thrown his way anywhere on the field? Why does Houshmandzadeh have more screen passes thrown to him than Q when Boldin is the better player after the catch? Why does Stallworth have two catches on the season as opposed to five carries? Why is it that when Cam goes four wide, everyone runs a fly pattern?



Stallworth also caught a 15-yard pass against the Panthers and has carried the ball 5 times for 45 yards.
[/quote]
I'm asking the same questions, but it seems highly unlikely those plays aren't in his playbook.
Just being honest.
Why does he not call them? No idea...

Honestly, a lot of players or coaches mention not wanting to show their hand, and I really hope that is the case because it seems that Cam has no hand to show, other than that flea flicker screen, which was both silly yet successful. More to come, who knows?
I mean, we as fans know a good amount, but I have to think players and coaches know more than us that don't play in the NFL.
They [i]have to[/i] be able to evaluate what is going on.
I don't think our entire coaching staff is blind to what is going on, and to the little things behind the scenes that we as fans don't know about.

[Ed_Reed20]

Also, why is it that inside the five against the Steelers, [b]IN TWO DIFFERENT GAMES[/b], Cam will attempt three straigh passes without a run? And on top of that, THREE of the combined six passes were fades to a 6'1 WR whose never been known as ajump-ball specialist and another is to a rookie TE?

Meanwhile, in a MNF game between the Falcons and Saints, I see Sean Payton call a slant pass at the goal-line to his big-bodied rookie TE and the Falcons OC do the same with Roddy White.

[flynismo]

Here's some advice for Cam ... go grab some old Cardinals film. Watch how they used Boldin, especially in the redzone. He's a red zone machine, not just some between the 20s possession reciever like some think he is.

[Jabara]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1294124938' post='592879']
Also, why is it that inside the five against the Steelers, [b]IN TWO DIFFERENT GAMES[/b], Cam will attempt three straigh passes without a run? And on top of that, THREE of the combined six passes were fades to a 6'1 WR whose never been known as ajump-ball specialist and another is to a rookie TE?

Meanwhile, in a MNF game between the Falcons and Saints, I see Sean Payton call a slant pass at the goal-line to his big-bodied rookie TE and the Falcons OC do the same with Roddy White.
[/quote]
Fades are the worst, unless of course, if they work, but I hate seeing a fade.
It seems like Cam isn't using the right personal in the right situations.
He might call a high percentage play, but not to the right person, or when that play, while high percentage in theory, is not the easiest of our players to execute.

I don't know, it's hard to say whether Cam will be back next season, we did go 12-4, so it's hard to fire an OC who went 12-4.
And [b]HEY[/b], I'm not giving him the credit for the 12 wins.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Jabara' timestamp='1294124557' post='592874']
I'm asking the same questions, but it seems highly unlikely those plays aren't in his playbook.
Just being honest.
Why does he not call them? No idea...

Honestly, a lot of players or coaches mention not wanting to show their hand, and I really hope that is the case because it seems that Cam has no hand to show, other than that flea flicker screen, which was both silly yet successful. More to come, who knows?
I mean, we as fans know a good amount, but I have to think players and coaches know more than us that don't play in the NFL.
They [i]have to[/i] be able to evaluate what is going on.
I don't think our entire coaching staff is blind to what is going on, and to the little things behind the scenes that we as fans don't know about.
[/quote]

If those plays were truly in his play-book, why would he not call them? He loves running reverses to Stallworth, screens to McClain, pump fake draws to Rice and comeback routes so why can't he call the plays I mentioned? Because he doesn't know his personnel well and simply doesn't have the plays.

As for him possibly not wanting to "show his hand", why would he do that during the regular season when his team is fighting for a divisional title? Let's just pretend he held back against the Bengals on Sunday. Have we seen consistently dynamic, imaginitive and above all, situational play-calling from Cam during the regular season to make you think he'd do it in the play-offs? We've seen plays here and there and some drives but five straight weeks without an offensive TD in the second half doesn't suggest the OC is particularly good.

Of course, it's not all on him. Joe is inconsistent, the o-line is poor and the WRs aren't great beating DBs down the field. However, I and many others still feel even with those shortcomings, there's room for major improvement.

[Jabara]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1294125642' post='592883']
If those plays were truly in his play-book, why would he not call them? He loves running reverses to Stallworth, screens to McClain, pump fake draws to Rice and comeback routes so why can't he call the plays I mentioned? Because he doesn't know his personnel well and simply doesn't have the plays.

[b]As for him possibly not wanting to "show his hand", why would he do that during the regular season when his team is fighting for a divisional title?[/b] Let's just pretend he held back against the Bengals on Sunday. Have we seen consistently dynamic, imaginitive and above all, situational play-calling from Cam during the regular season to make you think he'd do it in the play-offs? We've seen plays here and there and some drives but five straight weeks without an offensive TD in the second half doesn't suggest the OC is particularly good.

Of course, it's not all on him. Joe is inconsistent, the o-line is poor and the WRs aren't great beating DBs down the field. However, I and many others still feel even with those shortcomings, there's room for major improvement.
[/quote]
That which is in bold is something I've wondered and why I was so upset, still am, after the last Steelers game.
It made me realize, it's not there.
And while we played them fairly well, it wasn't enough, and this season under these circumstances it won't be.
I'm not saying we can't win the SB, that's up to the players at this point, I think they have basically overridden the coaches a few weeks ago, mainly Ray Lewis and his obvious involvement of trying to patch the coaches shortcomings, but he can only do so much.
As for Joe being inconsistent, I think he's more consistent than inconsistent. His last two games have been poor, but he also wasn't asked for much, which he clearly wants more involvement.

I think there is so much going on offensively, that it's nearly impossible for them to get in rhythm.
I forget who said it, and whether it was in this thread or not, but the offense needed to be built around and called upon Boldin and Rice.
It's sounds good to think that if Boldin is always double teamed that someone should be wide open, but that apparently isn't always the case. And if it is, it only makes sense to dump the ball off to Rice. But, that's the only extent of it.
Basically, do we want to be a run first team or pass first?
Because that sets up how everyone else will be positioned on the field.
It seems that teams realized how potent our offense could be, and immediately game planned it early on. It has so much potential to be great, that it's become obvious to call plays against our offense.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1294123444' post='592860']
Said it a million times before, and saying it again ... we're going as far as Flacco and the defense takes us.That means put the game in Flacco's hands (air it out) and trust that the defense will hold on to the lead Flacco gives us. With the QB and WR that we have, it aint rocket science.
[/quote]

I agree. It is simplicity itself. Apparently though, it is rocket science to Cam.

[Skip727]

[b]Ask anyone in SD, MIA or BAL what they think about playing under his command. [/b]

flynismo, you are stating something I have been wondering about for 2 months now. What would Drew Brees or Philip Rivers say about Cameron's OC abilities? Did he give Brees or Rivers the "permission" to audible? Is he responsible for those 2 QBs success or did they blossom [b]after[/b]they weren't under Cameron's tutelage? It would be interesting to see what they would say about Cameron.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

Let's not pretend that Flacco had a good game against the Bengals however. I'm not excusing Cam for anything, but Flacco played worse than he has most of the season. That's definitely going to be a problem because as we all know, he hasn't played well in previous playoff games (He has like 1 TD and 5 INTs).

My point being the offense tends to go completely to ground when Flacco doesn't pull a good performance out of the bag.

[flynismo]

[quote name='PWNEDbyDEANO']My point being the offense tends to go completely to ground when Flacco doesn't pull a good performance out of the bag.[/quote]


as a side note, this is why Flacco gets my vote for team MVP. No Flacco = no offense

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1294145502' post='592925']
as a side note, this is why Flacco gets my vote for team MVP. [b]No Flacco = no offense[/b]
[/quote]
No O-line to save Flacco+Cam=No offense

Fixed. =)

I seriously want to know what players made those comments but at least some in the locker room are acknowledging what is going on. It's seriously like we got all these weapons for nothing.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1294145502' post='592925']
as a side note, this is why Flacco gets my vote for team MVP. No Flacco = no offense
[/quote]

Good point, I voted otherwise because I thought others had better individual seasons, but I suppose that technically makes him our 'most valuable' player.

[ravenanchors]

[quote name='Twoo' timestamp='1294094704' post='592347']
Cam played a VERY conservative game against the Bengals for a reason- there was no reason to beat the crap out of our receivers when we're going to be a wildcard team regardless of a win or liss.

If we're conservative against the Chiefs then we can all tar and feather Cam- but using the Bengals game to judge his OC playcalling skill is ignorant and pointless.
[/quote]

First off
The receiver position does not get the crap beat out of them. The only contact the receivers have is when they are tackled or are blocking. It is the least contact position on the field.
And
even if you call a conservative game, you can still win. The Ravens only got a win because on the last play of the game, CinCin gave it to them.

[ravenanchors]

Comments like these have been said to the media. We all know who they are. And they are correct. Nothing wrong with that.
Mason, McClain,

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Jabara' timestamp='1294126304' post='592886']
That which is in bold is something I've wondered and why I was so upset, still am, after the last Steelers game.
It made me realize, it's not there.
And while we played them fairly well, it wasn't enough, and this season under these circumstances it won't be.
I'm not saying we can't win the SB, that's up to the players at this point, [b]I think they have basically overridden the coaches a few weeks ago, mainly Ray Lewis and his obvious involvement of trying to patch the coaches shortcomings, but he can only do so much. [/b]
As for Joe being inconsistent, I think he's more consistent than inconsistent. His last two games have been poor, but he also wasn't asked for much, which he clearly wants more involvement.

I think there is so much going on offensively, that it's nearly impossible for them to get in rhythm.
I forget who said it, and whether it was in this thread or not, but the offense needed to be built around and called upon Boldin and Rice.
It's sounds good to think that if Boldin is always double teamed that someone should be wide open, but that apparently isn't always the case. And if it is, it only makes sense to dump the ball off to Rice. But, that's the only extent of it.
Basically, do we want to be a run first team or pass first?
Because that sets up how everyone else will be positioned on the field.
[b]It seems that teams realized how potent our offense could be, and immediately game planned it early on. It has so much potential to be great, that it's become obvious to call plays against our offense.[/b]
[/quote]

To that first sentence in bold. Like Bulldog on 1057 The Fan has expressed several times, the defensive coaches, particularly [b]Mattison and DB coach Chuck Pagano[/b] deserve a ton of credit for what they've done this defense. No, the defense hasn't been perfect but considering the lack of talent we've come to expect here in Baltimore and the lack of support they've from the offense, what they've done this season has been impressive.

Ray is a player. He guides his teammmates on the field but Mattison, Pagano and others deserve a lot of credit for the defense's production this season.

To your final point, I don't really understand what you're getting at it. Even offense's around the league that lack playmaking/foundational talent get game-planned for but they adjust and put points on the board. That hasn't enough happened enough here.

[PuRock]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1294157805' post='593049']
To that first sentence in bold. Like Bulldog on 1057 The Fan has expressed several times, the defensive coaches, particularly [b]Mattison and DB coach Chuck Pagano[/b] deserve a ton of credit for what they've done this defense. No, the defense hasn't been perfect but considering the lack of talent we've come to expect here in Baltimore and the lack of support they've from the offense, what they've done this season has been impressive.
[/quote]

Yeah Bulldog has made me into a big Pagano fan. He's right. This was suppose to be our weakness but he has them playing like a unit. Sure they have bad games but they have faced tons of adversity. I thought they were going to stink this year and they've proved me wrong with being extremely serviceable. Hats off to Pagano.

[stormie]

[quote name='purple_pride' timestamp='1294094540' post='592342']
from what ive seen with this offence. we cant just "air it out" why? caus the line doesnt last long enough un till the line holds long enough for joe to air it out.
[/quote]

The line is what is driving me nuts the most and gives me the most concern. If Joe has more time Joe can get the job done, wait for the man to get open. But it's not happening enough because he's getting pressured too much.

Go to NFL and look at the QB stats. Joe's rating is 7th in the league. But the sack rating has him 2nd in the league. He only has one other QB above him in sacks and that's Cutler. And you can't blame Joe for all of those sacks. He's been scrambling and avoiding them and still throwing while they are hanging on to him.

The article was very interesting and thanks for posting it. I just had to comment on this. I honestly do think it's the number 1 issue we have.

[purple.n.black]

Sad thing is I think there's a good chance nothing changes because it has led us to a 12-4 record. But we have nothing but true opponents now. And we could have been at least 14-2 with the #1 seed if it were different.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='PWNEDbyDEANO' timestamp='1294143917' post='592917']
Let's not pretend that Flacco had a good game against the Bengals however. I'm not excusing Cam for anything, but Flacco played worse than he has most of the season. That's definitely going to be a problem because as we all know, he hasn't played well in previous playoff games (He has like 1 TD and 5 INTs).

My point being the offense tends to go completely to ground when Flacco doesn't pull a good performance out of the bag.
[/quote]

Um...he had 19 pass attempts of which 3 were screens. 90% of the time we ran on first and second down and the entire stadium knew when we were passing. They brought the house and Flacco was running for his life because, as usual, the plays called took too long to develop. I don't know what everyone wants from this kid. You want a 300 yd game from 19 (technically, 16) passing attempts?

[Bltravens]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1294125320' post='592881']
Here's some advice for Cam ... go grab some old Cardinals film. Watch how they used Boldin, especially in the redzone. He's a red zone machine, not just some between the 20s possession reciever like some think he is.
[/quote]
All you have to do is look at how big Boldin is and just get him the ball in some space and let him run dudes over. It shouldnt be that hard, get him a rub or a crossing route over the middle.