Our Offense Clearly Misses Clayton

[ravensfan160]

But after watching our offense struggle for 16 games to move the ball downfield it seems obvious. While Clayton may not have been the type of player we hoped for when we drafted him, he was a fairly explosive receiver with good if not great deep speed. You all probably know the numbers he put up in St Louis before his injury.

The fact is he complimented Derrick Mason very well. The two guys we replaced him with don't. Boldin would compliment Mason well if we actually used him. But we don't. On top of that, his best asset is going over the middle which is something our offense never does. As for Housh, he's just a bigger slower version of Mason. Stallworth has been a complete waste of space. I can't believe how we've use him. Or should I say NOT used him.

Our offense hasn't been the same without Clayton.

[Ed_Reed20]

I don't see how the misuse of Q, Houshmandzadeh and Stallworth and the passing game's stagnation mean the offense misses Clayton.

Boldin, despite being severely underutilized and misused, has still exceeded Clayton's totals from every season he was here except for one. Even Houshmandzadeh has had a comparable season to Clayton's last one here.

I don't see it at all man.

[Jamal]

No offense, but thats just not a very smart thing to say.

Boldin and Housh>Clayton. all day.

We could have Andre Johnson and Cam would probably have trouble utilizing him.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

In terms of Cam understanding how to involve him, yeah.

In terms of skill, no.

We have better players now, just the ends haven't met, such as we haven't seen enough plays designed for Boldin or Housh to thrive.

[edreedfromtheu]

You all say "Cam doesn't know how to use this receiver or that receiver."

Ummm... how else do you use receivers but to give them routes to run?

I think the big difference here might be the.... QUARTERBACK.

Sam Bradford sure seemed to be able to get Clayton the ball in a place where he could catch it without having to jump 3 feet in the air all the time, getting led right into a defender.

I know you all LOVE Flacco, but really... how else is Cam supposed to use Boldin? He runs the routes... he's stated himself that he's been wide open and not gotten the ball. I don't see how that is CAM'S fault. Sounds more like the quarterback to me.

If anything, I still think Cam has tried to use the receivers entirely too much, and hasn't run the ball as much as we should. Can I pray that he was saving it all for the playoffs? Sure, but I doubt that's the case.

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1294085768' post='592127']
I don't see how the misuse of Q, Houshmandzadeh and Stallworth and the passing game's stagnation mean the offense misses Clayton.

Boldin, despite being severely underutilized and misused, has still exceeded Clayton's totals from every season he was here except for one. Even Houshmandzadeh has had a comparable season to Clayton's last one here.

I don't see it at all man.
[/quote]
Agree to disagree then but our offense has no "deep threat". I hate that term and was angry when the experts were criticizing our team for it but its seems true. We never use Stallworth so we're left with 3 possession receivers. Sure a double move might get them deep once in awhile, but for the most part teams are able to play tight coverage underneath with fear of getting beat deep.

If you can think of a better reason, without a generick "Cam Camerson stinks", I'd be glad to hear it. But the fact is Cam Cam did better with a whole lot less last season. I refuse to believe he suddently forgot how to call a good game.

[Bltravens]

Theres merit in both opinions, we have the same 3 receivers running routes, none of them break the press well, none of them get significant separation from man coverage. Cam also doesnt utilize levels routes, rubs, quick throws to Boldin to let him get YAC. If anything Stallworth needs to be used in the shotgun, from the slot, and either Mason or TJ needs to be off the field in shotgun, its too easy for defenses to sit on with those 3 WRs. TJ was a pro bowler because Chad was taking absolutely the top of everything off defenses in Cincy, Boldin was dominating the middle of the field because there was no safety on one side of it because of Fitzgerald. With our WRs safeties dont have to actually double coverage anyone, they can just play in their zone and watch Flaccos eyes.

[AsianRice]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1294085375' post='592116']
But after watching our offense struggle for 16 games to move the ball downfield it seems obvious. While Clayton may not have been the type of player we hoped for when we drafted him, he was a fairly explosive receiver with good if not great deep speed. You all probably know the numbers he put up in St Louis before his injury.

The fact is he complimented Derrick Mason very well. The two guys we replaced him with don't. Boldin would compliment Mason well if we actually used him. But we don't. On top of that, his best asset is going over the middle which is something our offense never does. As for Housh, he's just a bigger slower version of Mason. Stallworth has been a complete waste of space. I can't believe how we've use him. Or should I say NOT used him.

Our offense hasn't been the same without Clayton.
[/quote]
Just to remind you, his team is in a division which breeds a playoff team with 7-9 record. He has unsure hands and easily gets shutdown. I don't miss a thing about him. All I know is we have a beast Boldin on our team and yes I am estatic about it.

On the other hand, Cam is just ruining my day every Sunday when he underuses his star players.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1294086600' post='592144']
You all say "Cam doesn't know how to use this receiver or that receiver."

Ummm... how else do you use receivers but to give them routes to run?

I think the big difference here might be the.... QUARTERBACK.

[b]Sam Bradford sure seemed to be able to get Clayton the ball in a place where he could catch it without having to jump 3 feet in the air all the time, getting led right into a defender.

I know you all LOVE Flacco, but really... how else is Cam supposed to use Boldin? He runs the routes... he's stated himself that he's been wide open and not gotten the ball. I don't see how that is CAM'S fault. Sounds more like the quarterback to me.

If anything, I still think Cam has tried to use the receivers entirely too much, and hasn't run the ball as much as we should. Can I pray that he was saving it all for the playoffs? Sure, but I doubt that's the case.[/b]
[/quote]

Bradford was able to get the ball to Clayton because he was the only dependable WR he had. Clayton was having 10+ balls thrown at him every week before going down; of course he was productive. Going against some weak CBs didn't hurt either.

How else is Cam supposed to use Q? Some more crossing routes, slants and screens would certainly help. Those were routes he excelled at in Arizona but on none of his TDs this season has he been running those routes.

When exactly did Boldin publicly say he's been "wide open but not gotten the ball"? Can you bring up a direct quote from him?

Cam has used the WR "too much"? That's interesting, especially when you consider the Ravens have [b]run the ball more this season than they did last year[/b]. In some key situations I agree, he's abandoned the run, even when it was working but I can't blame him too much when the interior o-line has failed to generate a push more often than not.

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1294087157' post='592158']
Agree to disagree then but our offense has no "deep threat". I hate that term and was angry when the experts were criticizing our team for it but its seems true. We never use Stallworth so we're left with 3 possession receivers. Sure a double move might get them deep once in awhile, but for the most part teams are able to play tight coverage underneath with fear of getting beat deep.

If you can think of a better reason, without a generick "Cam Camerson stinks", I'd be glad to hear it. But the fact is Cam Cam did better with a whole lot less last season. I refuse to believe he suddently forgot how to call a good game.
[/quote]

But really, how often was Clayton a deep threat here? Let's not pretend like he was all that productive. He got behind DBs occasionally but not consistently and certainly didn't move the chains much.

In my opinion, the offense hasn't taken off for a number of reasons. Like I said in response to edreedfromtheu, Boldin's strengths haven't been taken advantage of. The same goes for Stallworth. Both have been very good after catch during their career but have rarely had passing plays drawn up for them this season. I think Cam has called more screen plays to Houshmandzadeh than Boldin this season. And Stallworth has two catches. That's pathetic.

Another major problem has been the o-line's decline in play due to injuries and players playing out of position.

I disagree that Cam did better with less last season. Joe has thrown for more TDs this season and for more yards. The running game was far more productive last year but that again, goes back to the o-line.

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1294088191' post='592180']
Just to remind you, his team is in a division which breeds a playoff team with 7-9 record. He has unsure hands and easily gets shutdown. I don't miss a thing about him. All I know is we have a beast Boldin on our team and yes I am estatic about it.

[b]On the other hand, Cam is just ruining my day every Sunday when he underuses his star players.[/b][/quote]
At what point do you start blaming the players? Because I'm done blaming Cam.

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1294088368' post='592182']
I disagree that Cam did better with less last season. Joe has thrown for more TDs this season and for more yards. The running game was far more productive last year but that again, goes back to the o-line.
[/quote]
Yeah but we scored 11 fewer rushing touchdowns. We had 22 in '09 and only 11 this year

As a team, our offense is graded on points scored. Just like what Harbaugh says about our defense, all that matters is points allowed.

Our offense has averaged 2.1 points per game fewer than last year. That might not seem like much but we've been in a lot of close games this year where 2 or 3 points would have meant the difference.

Plus, I'd be willing to bet that we've scored more special teams and defensive TD's than 2009 as well which is inflating the stats.

[darklight1216]

I think that the offense clearly misses having an offensive line that can block.

Like everyone else has said Boldin, Housh > Clayton.

[TSizzle00]

Ravens offensive problems are from the Oline, we cant run the ball and we cant pass block.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1294088745' post='592190']
Yeah but we scored 11 fewer rushing touchdowns. We had 22 in '09 and only 11 this year

As a team, our offense is graded on points scored. Just like what Harbaugh says about our defense, all that matters is points allowed.

Our offense has averaged 2.1 points per game fewer than last year. That might not seem like much but we've been in a lot of close games this year where 2 or 3 points would have meant the difference.

Plus, I'd be willing to bet that we've scored more special teams and defensive TD's than 2009 as well which is inflating the stats.
[/quote]

Of course the team has scored less rushing TDs; the o-line was clearly much better in '09 than it was this season.

This year's unit has scored on a kickoff return and three interception returns. Last year's unit scored on a kickoff return, two interception returns and a fumble return so they're dead even.

Obviously Cam doesn't deserve complete but I can point to numerous [i]specific[/i] situations where his ineptitude was evident.

[flynismo]

Clayton sucked just as bad for STL as he did for us. He caught 50% of his targets before getting hurt ... which is exactly what we've come to expect from him. Now get off his nuts.

[noy]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1294087877' post='592172']
Theres merit in both opinions, we have the same 3 receivers running routes, none of them break the press well, none of them get significant separation from man coverage. Cam also doesnt utilize levels routes, rubs, quick throws to Boldin to let him get YAC. If anything Stallworth needs to be used in the shotgun, from the slot, and either Mason or TJ needs to be off the field in shotgun, its too easy for defenses to sit on with those 3 WRs. TJ was a pro bowler because Chad was taking absolutely the top of everything off defenses in Cincy, Boldin was dominating the middle of the field because there was no safety on one side of it because of Fitzgerald. With our WRs safeties dont have to actually double coverage anyone, they can just play in their zone and watch Flaccos eyes.
[/quote]

You speak the truth. Stallworth is the only comparable guy to Clayton because he's the only burner we have on the roster.

Also, Clayton was moving to a position none of us had seem him at, and I remember some of us saying we'd think he would excel in. Trading him was premature and greedy, since Ozzie loves his draft picks and saw Housh going at a bargain rate. Housh may be better, but he doesn't provide the deep speed Clayton had. Nobody knows how it would have turned out if we had kept Clayton because of his position at the slot. And let's face it, with the amount of impact Housh has had on the team, can anybody really say that keeping Clayton would have been any worse? All of Housh's scores have been off of play design or accurate ball placement thanks to Joe. In other words, Housh hasn't done anything that Clayton couldn't have done.

Oh and Clayton having bad hands is a bunch of BS. Get the New England game out of your heads and you would see he was actually pretty sure handed.

[gabefergy]

I don't miss Clayton dropping every other pass thrown his way

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='noy' timestamp='1294093400' post='592312']
You speak the truth. Stallworth is the only comparable guy to Clayton because he's the only burner we have on the roster.

Also, Clayton was moving to a position none of us had seem him at, and I remember some of us saying we'd think he would excel in. [b]Trading him was premature and greedy, since Ozzie loves his draft picks and saw Housh going at a bargain rate. Housh may be better, but he doesn't provide the deep speed Clayton had. Nobody knows how it would have turned out if we had kept Clayton because of his position at the slot. And let's face it, with the amount of impact Housh has had on the team, can anybody really say that keeping Clayton would have been any worse? All of Housh's scores have been off of play design or accurate ball placement thanks to Joe. In other words, Housh hasn't done anything that Clayton couldn't have done.[/b]

Oh and Clayton having bad hands is a bunch of BS. Get the New England game out of your heads and you would see he was actually pretty sure handed.
[/quote]

How in the world was trading Clayton "premature and greedy" when the team had already secured a better deep threat?

How exactly do you know Clayton could have equaled or bettered Houshmandzadeh's production had he been in the same position? Yes, Houshmandzadeh's TDs have come on well-thrown balls but T.J. still had to run the routes and reel the ball in. The game-winning grab against the Steelers wasn't easy. There's no guarantee Clayton would have made that play.

[CapoRocky]

We gave Clayton every opportunity to live up to his potential but he failed miserably.

[Purple Nurple]

We miss Clayton?

OMG, i just threw up in my mouth a wee bit. What hogwash.

Cam better change my opinion of him this weekend. I want to see that ball sailing out of Flaccos hands a bunch more. I'm praying Cam is keeping the pass game under wraps until this coming Sunday, PRAYING!!!!!

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1294088394' post='592185']
At what point do you start blaming the players? Because I'm done blaming Cam.
[/quote]

The players to blame are the offensive linesmen. They have only had one good, solid full game this season IMO (vs the Saints)

Cam's fault is that he hasn't done enough to incorporate the strengths of our new players into the game plan, he should have Boldin running slants, not blocking on third down. Nor do I believe he makes enough adjustments in-game either.

He has his hands tied to an extent because of the line, but he could still be doing a much better job.

[Irish Girl]

[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1294088191' post='592180']
Just to remind you, his team is in a division which breeds a playoff team with 7-9 record. He has unsure hands and easily gets shutdown. I don't miss a thing about him. All I know is we have a beast Boldin on our team and yes I am estatic about it.

On the other hand, [b]Cam is just ruining my day every Sunday when he underuses his star players.[/b]
[/quote]
Maybe he is a little, but we come out with a win almost every time. He knows what he's doing. Everyone blames mistakes on him, and sometimes it isn't always his fault. But about Boldin, yes!!! I'm really happy we have him and Houshmenzadah!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='PWNEDbyDEANO' timestamp='1294097797' post='592414']
The players to blame are the offensive linesmen. They have only had one good, solid full game this season IMO (vs the Saints)

Cam's fault is that he hasn't done enough to incorporate the strengths of our new players into the game plan, [b]he should have Boldin running slants, not blocking on third down[/b]. Nor do I believe he makes enough adjustments in-game either.

He has his hands tied to an extent because of the line, but he could still be doing a much better job.
[/quote]

I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw that.

[quote name='Irish Girl' timestamp='1294098118' post='592431']
Maybe he is a little, but we come out with a win almost every time. [b]He knows what he's doing.[/b] Everyone blames mistakes on him, and sometimes it isn't always his fault. But about Boldin, yes!!! I'm really happy we have him and Houshmenzadah!
[/quote]

I have my doubts about that.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

[quote name='Irish Girl' timestamp='1294098118' post='592431']
Maybe he is a little, but we come out with a win almost every time. [b]He knows what he's doing.[/b] Everyone blames mistakes on him, and sometimes it isn't always his fault. But about Boldin, yes!!! I'm really happy we have him and Houshmenzadah!
[/quote]

He certainly knows how to hide it, that's for sure.

We come out with a win most times yes, but that doesn't mean that the offense hasn't underachieved for most of the season, and that he's the main reason for it falling short of its preseason hype.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1294086600' post='592144']
You all say "Cam doesn't know how to use this receiver or that receiver."

Ummm... how else do you use receivers but to give them routes to run?

I think the big difference here might be the.... QUARTERBACK.

Sam Bradford sure seemed to be able to get Clayton the ball in a place where he could catch it without having to jump 3 feet in the air all the time, getting led right into a defender.

I know you all LOVE Flacco, but really... how else is Cam supposed to use Boldin? He runs the routes... he's stated himself that he's been wide open and not gotten the ball. I don't see how that is CAM'S fault. Sounds more like the quarterback to me.

If anything, I still think Cam has tried to use the receivers entirely too much, and hasn't run the ball as much as we should. Can I pray that he was saving it all for the playoffs? Sure, but I doubt that's the case.
[/quote]

It's hard to look for and find the open man when you are forced to run for your life in the backfield. And why does he have to run for his life? Partly because the O line play is a little lackluster at times but mainly because of Cam's play calling. When you are in a situation when 90% of the time you are running on 1st and 2nd down and only passing on 3rd and long everyone in the stadium knows you are throwing the ball. It's not hard to know what defensive scheme to use or when to blitz in that situation. Cam has no creativity to account for the blitz. Never. He has put Joe in a position that if he ever wants to complete a pass he must hold onto the ball because our receivers run the most uncreative routes in the NFL and plays take way too long to develop. By the time someone is open, Joe is scrambling for his life. It is not the QB man. It is the OC.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1294089839' post='592219']
Clayton sucked just as bad for STL as he did for us. He caught 50% of his targets before getting hurt ... which is exactly what we've come to expect from him. [b]Now get off his nuts.[/b]
[/quote]
NO! I dont wanna! lol

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1294101457' post='592498']
NO! I dont wanna! lol
[/quote]
Lol!

If anything our offense misses Gaither.

[Irish Girl]

[quote name='PWNEDbyDEANO' timestamp='1294098896' post='592445']
He certainly knows how to hide it, that's for sure.

We come out with a win most times yes, but that doesn't mean that the offense hasn't underachieved for most of the season, and that he's the main reason for it falling short of its preseason hype.
[/quote]
Well Coach Harbaugh came out and said that their offense wasn't as good as it has been earlier in the season and in Kansas City they O players and Cam Cameron will do a better job. BUT, the players "took the blame on their shoulders", and said it was their fault.

[flynismo]

[quote name='EnVy_CaLiBeR' timestamp='1294101615' post='592506']<br />Lol! <br /><br />If anything our offense misses Gaither.<br />[/quote]


Yeah, that's the truth.

[Kwothdaraven]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1294086600' post='592144']
You all say "Cam doesn't know how to use this receiver or that receiver."

Ummm... how else do you use receivers but to give them routes to run?

I think the big difference here might be the.... QUARTERBACK.

Sam Bradford sure seemed to be able to get Clayton the ball in a place where he could catch it without having to jump 3 feet in the air all the time, getting led right into a defender.

I know you all LOVE Flacco, but really... how else is Cam supposed to use Boldin? He runs the routes... he's stated himself that he's been wide open and not gotten the ball. I don't see how that is CAM'S fault. Sounds more like the quarterback to me.

If anything, I still think Cam has tried to use the receivers entirely too much, and hasn't run the ball as much as we should. Can I pray that he was saving it all for the playoffs? Sure, but I doubt that's the case.
[/quote]

Im sorry but that was just an overall dumb post. A OCs job isnt to just give a wr a route. You have to scheme and give the recievers routes that exploit their strengths and the defenses weaknesses. Cam doesent do that in the slightest. He runs the most vanilla offensive scheme in the league. Hes also incredibly predictable. I guarentee that if you put this offense in the hands of bill belicheck, everyones numbers would skyrise. Cam doesent do anything imaginitive and doesent alliw his quarterback to call audibles for crying out loud. My high school team had audibles. Cam fully deserves the blame hes getting.

And to say the reason why clayton failed here was flaccos fault is assinign. And then to say that a rooke sam bradford is better than joe flacco right now is equally as ludicrious. I see bradford being an all pro in 4 years or so, but that doesent make him better than flacco now. Flacco put up probowl caliber numbers this season. Not to mention that flacco plays outdoors in the best defensive division in football while bradford plays in a dome in the worst division in nfl history