If Ravens Play Indy, Bench Flacco For Bulger

[flynismo]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1294009480' post='591136']<br />Don't throw the attempts statistic at me, please. Brady was 10/16 today for 199 yards and 2 TDs, so a lack of attempts doesn't mean you can't have success.<br />[/quote]

We were in the red zone twice all day, and ran it in one of those times. How many TD's should Flacco have thrown today when he was given only 19 pass attempts, and 1 red zone attempt?

I'd call a 74% completion rate being as successful as you can expect him to be given the lack of opportunities.


I'm just curious ....

How many people here say that Flacco is not elite, but then compare him to people like Manning and Brady if he doesn't have a huge week?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1294022571' post='591500']
[b]I think people are just frustrated with all the moves we made on offense and nothing has really changed. I mean its frustrating. Boldin, Mason, Housh, and Stallworth? Find me a team with a better WR Corps. Then we have Heap and 3 pro bowl runnings backs? Sorry that you are all rah rah lets go team no matter what, when some of us are just a little disappointed in the way our offense cant keep our defense off the field.[/b] I'm a fan and I pay money to go to these games. This is a discussion board. While this guy saying Bench Flacco For Bulger doesn't speak for all of us, we can all agree that something isn't clicking on the offense and it could potentially be our down fall in the post season. It's just a concern.

While I don't agree with Bulger starting, I was pretty shocked he didn't get any reps today....
[/quote]

The additions of those skill position players was great but from the start of training camp, the offense's most important unit, the offensive line, has done nothing but degrade. Of course, the way the weapons have been utilized has been head-scratching to say the least but it's very difficult to overcome poor o-line play in the NFL and near-impossible when your QB isn't one of the best in the league.

[Alexir]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1294023003' post='591510']
The additions of those skill position players was great but from the start of training camp, the offense's most important unit, the offensive line, has done nothing but degrade. Of course, the way the weapons have been utilized has been head-scratching to say the least but it's very difficult to overcome poor o-line play in the NFL and near-impossible when your QB isn't one of the best in the league.
[/quote]

Yeah and that right there is the difference between Flacco and Rodgers lol

You would think that we would use more screens...ugh, Well it will be great to see JG next year after Ozzie pays the man.

[Alexir]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1294022920' post='591508']
We were in the red zone twice all day, and ran it in one of those times. How many TD's should Flacco have thrown today when he was given only 19 pass attempts, and 1 red zone attempt?

I'd call a 74% completion rate being as successful as you can expect him to be given the lack of opportunities.


I'm just curious ....

How many people here say that Flacco is not elite, but then compare him to people like Manning and Brady if he doesn't have a huge week?
[/quote]

Are you counting passing attempts or actual drop backs? Because the 4 sacks and the 3 scrambles were 7 passing attempts so now you are talking about 27 passing attempts and where does that put his completion percentage?

Edit-my math was bad today lol

[XxSizzleXx]

[quote name='Shawn`' timestamp='1294012713' post='591212']
Just throw Cam an Xbox controller and have him press A , B , Y, X to select plays.

After all, playcalling isn't harder than that. Right?
[/quote]

It really isn`t, you pick a play and go with it and hope it works.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1294023154' post='591515']
Yeah and that right there is the difference between Flacco and Rodgers lol

You would think that we would use more screens...ugh, Well it will be great to see JG next year after Ozzie pays the man.
[/quote]

You [i]would[/i] think we'd see more sceenns but we're talking about Cam Cameron.

I don't know if Gaither gets paid. I've heard too many negative stories about him from people close to the team. He's supposedly really immature.

[RoflDogs]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1294009480' post='591136']
Don't throw the attempts statistic at me, please. Brady was 10/16 today for 199 yards and 2 TDs, so a lack of attempts doesn't mean you can't have success.
[/quote]

Brady played like a half, and they were up most of the time

[jimmypowder]

Our biggest problem on offense is without a doubt our offensive line.

They don't pass block very well and when they don't run block well either
Like this Cincy game we don't score points.

It's as simple as that.

We really need another OT and Center(Birk is done) at minimum .
Oher needs to move back to RT and Yanda back to RG.

Losing Gaither really was by far the biggest loss of the season for us.

If our o-line continues to play like the Cincy game at most we win one
Playoff game .maybe none.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1294023331' post='591517']<br />Are you counting passing attempts or actual drop backs? Because the 4 sacks and the 3 scrambles were 8 passing attempts so now you are talking about 27 passing attempts and where does that put his completion percentage?<br />[/quote]

That would be 7 ... since when do we count sacks and scrambles against a QB completion %?

[nancycook]

I don't think it has anything to do with Joe and don't know why you don't see it. Cam calls the plays. Joe doesn't audible and we're not sure he is able to do so. Cam called everyone 3rd down play and put Joe into harms way. He could have called a roll-out, a screen, a draw or anything that would have allowed joe to get rid of the ball quickly. He didn't. I don't understand why you guys don't see that. Now we need John to get more involved so that Cam understands what the goal is for Joe. To make him an outstanding QB he must gain control of the offense. He needs to be able to see the defense and audible to adjust to that. My only concern is that he doesn't seem to feel the defense closing in on him....that bother's me.

[RivenHale]

Since it furthers Alexir's theories, obviously.

[TheRavenouseD2008]

no colts at the moment they might get knocked out before we see them we need to knock off KC and Pitt

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='nancycook' timestamp='1294024391' post='591540']
I don't think it has anything to do with Joe and don't know why you don't see it. Cam calls the plays. [b]Joe doesn't audible and we're not sure he is able to do so.[/b] Cam called everyone 3rd down play and put Joe into harms way. He could have called a roll-out, a screen, a draw or anything that would have allowed joe to get rid of the ball quickly. He didn't. I don't understand why you guys don't see that. Now we need John to get more involved so that Cam understands what the goal is for Joe. To make him an outstanding QB he must gain control of the offense. He needs to be able to see the defense and audible to adjust to that. My only concern is that he doesn't seem to feel the defense closing in on him....that bother's me.
[/quote]

Joe [i]does[/i] audible. He did in the Saints game and I don't think Cam would suddenly give him that freedom in one game if he hasn't done it before.

[nancycook]

Flacco didn't play like garbage -- you must remember he doesn't call the plays. When Cam let's him audible it may be a huge change...he is smart, calm, and capable of leading the offense. My only complaint with Joe is that he doesn't always seem to feel the defense closing in on him. He didn't the last two week but not today.

[Alexir]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1294024180' post='591535']
That would be 7 ... since when do we count sacks and scrambles against a QB completion %?
[/quote]

People are complaining about how he didn't get enough passing attempts when he really did have a fair share of them but took too many sacks because he super glued his hand to the ball...

The completion percentage of course wouldn't change but my point was that technically he should of had 26 passing attempts and not just 19.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1294026653' post='591575']
People are complaining about how he didn't get enough passing attempts when he really did have a fair share of them [b]but took too many sacks because [b]he super glued his hand to the ball...[/b][/b]

The completion percentage of course wouldn't change but my point was that technically he should of had 26 passing attempts and not just 19.
[/quote]

Because the pass protection was perfect and WRs were open all game long.

[Alexir]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1294027142' post='591582']
Because the pass protection was perfect and WRs were open all game long.
[/quote]

On average a QB has just under 3 seconds to throw the ball before the pocket collapses....Joe has the ball in his hand much longer than that....

[flynismo]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1294027337' post='591584']<br />On average a QB has just under 3 seconds to throw the ball before the pocket collapses....Joe has the ball in his hand much longer than that....<br />[/quote]


i didnt see the game today, so I cant comment.
But the thing with that is it's not like there's guys open and Joe is just running around with the ball for the heck of it (although from what I hear, on one of Flacco's sacks, Boldin was open).
He has to either extend the play, or throw the ball away immediately. He normally opts to try to extend the play, and you cant fault him for that.

[3-4ravdef509]

This is beyond pathetic. Ok people, let's look at Flacco, REALISTICALLY? PLEASE?

So, positives: Arm strength. Usually very accurate. Poise. Is adequate at reading defenses. Has a bit of clutch even.

Negatives: Holds on to the ball too long. Mental Errors. Throws off back foot too often. Sometimes sloppy mechanics. Slow on reads.

Legitimate Excuses for mentioned negatives: He holds on to the ball too long often because there is virtually no one open. Playcalling is suspect there. Slow on reads often because routes in Cam's offense take long to develop.

So...all in all, this is what we sould expect from him. He came from Delaware guys. Wasn't even supposed to start till maybe this year. He's still developing. Lots of good things, but still some kinks. But besides the Bengals game, he hasn't had any really bad games this year. It's more of a mental thing with them, that will be worked on next year. But for now, relax. Don't expect perfection. He's not Tom brady. He's a 3rd year qb still learning the game, and while some of his poor play is his fault, much of it is also to blame on the o-line and on the playcalling. Remember, it's a team sport, not a one man show.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1294027337' post='591584']
[b]On average a QB has just under 3 seconds to throw the ball before the pocket collapses[/b]....Joe has the ball in his hand much longer than that....
[/quote]

Where are you getting that number? I'm not denying Joe isn't slow in his drop, making reads or delivery(he was ridiculously slow doing those things most of the time tonight) but again, I don't think WRs were running open all game long.

[Bullrush]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1294004251' post='590930']
Yes call the defense terrible after being on the field for 70 plays and forcing 5 turnovers, that makes sense.
[/quote]
Yeah, THAT's our problem. Up until that 60th play or 50th play our defense shut them down. RIght.

It's a playcalling issue, it's not being tired related. It's been like that the entire season. Once we're up by 2+ scores our defense goes in prevent devense mode. We stop being aggressive, we give up 1st down after 1st down, 90-95 yard drives up until the last few minutes of the game, with the game on the line.

The playcalling on offense and defense worries me, not the players we have. It's Cameron & Mattison. Don't tell me Flacco dials up those lame, vanilla type plays on offense, it's been confirmed that Cameron doesn't give him any choice but to call the plays that he's being given. He's not even allowed to motion when he sees somebody blitzing that is not going to be picked up by a blocker. And on defense it's the prevent mode that worries me. How come we dominate every offense in the first quarter and late in the 4th? When the game is close. Is it because we're tired or because the playcalling changes?

Also Cameron's lame excuse that Boldin doesn't get big numbers because he's getting more attention now by defenders is ridiculous. When all you allow him to do is run those short slants don't be surprised if he's not getting big numbers. Defenses knew about Boldin before he got here, he wasn't covered differently in the first few games when he put up 3-TD-and-150+yard-performances than he was in the 2nd half of the season when he basically averaged 1-2 catches for 5 yards per game. Here's some news for you, Cam: Every elite receiver in the NFL produces. And those guys are getting way more attention than Boldin does. Look at yourself and the type of plays you're calling and how vanilla you are on offense, then worry about what defenses are doing to our players. It's so easy for an offensive coordinator to just give credit to every defense when his offense can't make any plays. That's cowardly. I don't blame him for the Flacco INT, that's on Flacco. But I do blame this vanilla offense that most times looks like it's been designed by a monkey on him. How are you gonna beat the Colts or Patriots the way we're playing on offense right now. It's not gonna work. The Colts always have our number. Not because Flacco can't perform against cover 2 defenses, but because it's a mismatch for our offense unless we can run the ball. Those short throws and screens don't work against the Colts. And on defense it's the same. That prevent type defense is not gonna stop Brady from completing all those unpredictable slants, screens, bombs etc.

I just hope the same offense/defense that beat the Pats in the first half of the season shows up in the playoffs and not the offense/defense that we've seen in the last few games.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I know Cam isn't reading this but stop babying Flacco. He's still being treated like a rookie who doesn't know our offense. Let him make his own decisions, don't drag him down with you and make people blame him or his ability to throw for the terrible playcalling. It's funny how when he has more than 2 seconds in the pocket and the receivers get open on their own and stop running the routes that they're supposed to run we usually come up with some bigplays and touchdowns. That Boldin touchdown against the Steelers is a perfect example when he fooled Polamalu in the endzone when Flacco told him where to run and get open.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010120513/2010/REG13/steelers@ravens/analyze#tab:watch/contentId:09000d5d81cacce2

[-Truth-]

[quote name='PITCH52BLACK' timestamp='1294004696' post='590948']
it is amazing to see how many cats in here just can't handle people speaking their minds (negatively) about Flacco and are quick to hand out - to posters that do as though he (Flacco) is flawless. Wrong!

Flacco struggled today but, not only him...the entire offensive production was pure garbage! they did absolutely nothing to help the defense out but this is how they have been performing the entire season. well, the regular season for the Ravens is over and now the playoffs begin. [b]once again....the Ravens are a WildCard team and must hit the road throughout the playoffs.

the scenario now? ONE & DONE!![/b]
[/quote]

I completely agree. The Ravens have little experience given this situation, so hoping for a win will probably leave us in disappointment. I mean, when was the last time we even won on the road in the Playoffs? Wait a minute.

[bdravens]

All i can do is and when I see the words "Bench Flacco" "In Indy"...

[bdravens]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1294108653' post='592660']
I completely agree. The Ravens have little experience given this situation, so hoping for a win will probably leave us in disappointment. I mean, when was the last time we even won on the road in the Playoffs? Wait a minute.
[/quote]
Little experience? We're 3-2 on the road in the playoffs the last 3 years. If anything, we're built to play on the road if our D keeps it up and run game gets going.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='bdravens' timestamp='1294109101' post='592677']
Little experience? We're 3-2 on the road in the playoffs the last 3 years. If anything, we're built to play on the road if our D keeps it up and run game gets going.
[/quote]

He was being sarcastic.

[bdravens]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1294109424' post='592687']
He was being sarcastic.
[/quote]
Missed that, didn't read the last half. My b.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='bdravens' timestamp='1294109484' post='592689']
Missed that, didn't read the last half. My b.
[/quote]
It's cool. We've all done it before.

[jdynamite]

Dumb Thread!!!!! Although Irrelevant now. Still Dumb! BENCH our Starting QB that has lead us to 3 straight playoff appearances unheard of for this team.. For a BACKUP that hasn't play since the preseason.. And whose never even thrown for as many TDs as Flacco did this yr, while he played with the High Flying Rams team.

People must also remember Bulger isn't Ram anymore because he began to hold the ball too long and eat up sacks every game... His throwing for more yards is merely the product of more pass-oriented offense ran at the time also....

[jdynamite]

Also our offense isnt the most creative or complex in terms of route running, to get receivers open.. We don't use enough multiple TE sets either.

I will admit with talent we have I expected the offense to score much more this year, but what it did was get leads in every single game, then fall apart with 3 and outs until the defense got tired of playing and blew leads..It has always seemed as if the offense has scored then got disinterested in the game rather than having the we can't be stopped lets blow a team out mentality,.

[3-4ravdef509]

Bottom line is people are impatient and see in Black and White. And spoiled. You can't have it all. You can't have great defense and great offense, at the same time. It's be too easy then. But, we have pretty good of both of them, and while it isn't pretty all the time, we find ways to stay in games and win most of them. And end of the day, that's what matters, right?