Would You Bring Marvin Lewis Back?

[Marc2k6]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1293856054' post='589181']
Mike Preston said on the radio today he really likes Baltimore and if he couldn't secure a job elsewhere, I could see him returning.
[/quote]
Sounds like a plan then!

[FerrariFan87]

I would welcome him back in a heartbeat to replace Mattison.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1294014750' post='591304']
I would welcome him back in a heartbeat to replace Mattison.
[/quote]

What has Mattison done to deserve getting canned?

[RLewis52]

Nadkins52 is right i would rather have Singletary but Marvin Lewis is a great defensive coach/ both are terrible head coaches

[RedFire]

what's the say marvin lewis can't work with the current talent? if he's that great he can plug and play like bill billicek. Billicek works with whatever he has....and i think marvin in his prime was a better D coordinator.

is billicek the only coach in the NFL that can make adjustments? I think not! I think marvin lewis is an underrated adjuster....he just had too many players get locked up, die, or team cancers for him to be successful in cincy. Does he even have the support of the GM to do his job?

and in regaurds to mattison when can easily fire a top 5 coordinator when you don't get over the hump to win a superbowl. Baltimore used to be about making the playoffs....but now we have the be about winning superbowl like the steelers. Playoffs ain't got enuff for our rival and shouldn't be good enuff for us.

[ZRayvenZ]

Can't fire or risk hurting Uncle Greg's feelings, so no.
Wonder how Marvin is with play calling or o line coaching. That's where we are just horrendous.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ZRayvenZ' timestamp='1294063513' post='591744']
[b]Can't fire or risk hurting Uncle Greg's feelings, so no.[/b]
Wonder how Marvin is with play calling or o line coaching. That's where we are just horrendous.
[/quote]

Like I've asked others, what has Mattison done to deserve getting fired?

[FerrariFan87]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1294015353' post='591339']
What has Mattison done to deserve getting canned?
[/quote]

The complete lack of pressure on the QB in key situations, even though that was a point of emphasis during the off-season... the terrible blitzing... questionable run defense, which has always been a staple... the list goes on.

[edreedfromtheu]

Can Marvin Lewis help the Ravens offense score? If so... I'll go pick him up at the airport!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1294075222' post='591917']
The complete lack of pressure on the QB in key situations, even though that was a point of emphasis during the off-season... the terrible blitzing... questionable run defense, which has always been a staple... the list goes on.
[/quote]

Those reasons don't a warrant a guy getting fired.

Is it his fault this team has only one quality pass rusher right now? The organization has attempted to address the pass the past two drafts. One guy doesn't seem to be progressing and another has derailed his career for the moment.

"Terrible blitzing"? I've come to realize that the only times Mattison is credited with blitzing is when it actually works. Whenever it's picked up, his blitz scheme was "too vanilla". I'll concede there have been times when he hasn't blitzed enough but I don't see how much too much blame can be placed at his feet when he [i]does[/i] blitz, it gets picked up and the defense gets burnt.

"Questionable run defense"? How is that his fault? Playing run defense is on the players first and foremost. Kelly Gregg, one of the team's best run stoppers for a long time, has obviously worn down. Ray and J.J. have slowed and the inside LBs while talented, have had numerous noted lapses in gap integrity.

[ZRayvenZ]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1294073618' post='591896']
Like I've asked others, what has Mattison done to deserve getting fired?
[/quote]


I don't think he deserves to get fired at this point. I also don't think he ever will be as long as JH is coach. That was my point. I think he has improved over last year, whereas Cam is regressing/wasting talent.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ZRayvenZ' timestamp='1294076828' post='591940']
I don't think he deserves to get fired at this point. I also don't think he ever will be as long as JH is coach. That was my point. I think he has improved over last year, whereas Cam is regressing/wasting talent.
[/quote]

I agree about Cam. To your second sentence though, you don't the front office would evaluate him fairly and let him go if the defense was absolutely gashed week in and week for an entire season?

[ZRayvenZ]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1294077099' post='591948']
I agree about Cam. To your second sentence though, you don't the front office would evaluate him fairly and let him go [b]if the defense was absolutely gashed week in and week for an entire season?[/b][/quote]

Yikes!! OK, Now that you put it that way i would expect the front office to step in, Uncle Gregs feelings be darned. What scares me is i could see the front office having to do that if things got that bad.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Clutch Ravens' timestamp='1293907534' post='589396']
Having Lewis back would also mean our going back to a 4-3 and, with more and more teams switching to the 3-4, would mean we could get a better selection of talent in the draft.

We do, kind of, have the personnel to run a 4-3, assuming we added another piece or two. We have Ngata and Cody to play inside (we could use a one-gap penetration-type DT), Suggs plays with his hand in the dirt half the time anyway and I'm sure that JJ would be a decent 4-3 Left End with his ability against the run. Guys like McClain and Gooden may actually be better as 4-3 OLBs than 3-4 ILBs - Gooden in particular looks like he has the skill set to play outside in a 4-3.

It's all theoretical, but I believe Marvin would, at the very least, give our defense it's identity back instead of being a cofused 3-4, 4-3 hybrid.
[/quote]
Finding a prototypical 4-3 DE is about as hard a position to find on defense. Even Suggs is not a prototypical 4-3 DE and with the way college ball is being played these days you dont often find DE's in college who are legit talents over the 260 mark. There are far more 3-4 OLB hybrids in the college ranks who can contribute at the NFL level.

[FerrariFan87]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1294076116' post='591931']
Those reasons don't a warrant a guy getting fired.

Is it his fault this team has only one quality pass rusher right now? The organization has attempted to address the pass the past two drafts. One guy doesn't seem to be progressing and another has derailed his career for the moment.

"Terrible blitzing"? I've come to realize that the only times Mattison is credited with blitzing is when it actually works. Whenever it's picked up, his blitz scheme was "too vanilla". I'll concede there have been times when he hasn't blitzed enough but I don't see how much too much blame can be placed at his feet when he [i]does[/i] blitz, it gets picked up and the defense gets burnt.

"Questionable run defense"? How is that his fault? Playing run defense is on the players first and foremost. Kelly Gregg, one of the team's best run stoppers for a long time, has obviously worn down. Ray and J.J. have slowed and the inside LBs while talented, have had numerous noted lapses in gap integrity.
[/quote]

I can't remember the last time one of our blitzes actually got there in time, and that goes to Mattison's scheme and lack of feel for the game: He blitzes when he shouldn't and doesn't when he should. I'm not saying he's been awful, and he'll probably be around one more year, but I just think Marvin Lewis would be a better fit here.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1294078709' post='591985']
I can't remember the last time one of our blitzes actually got there in time, and that goes to Mattison's scheme and lack of feel for the game: He blitzes when he shouldn't and doesn't when he should. I'm not saying he's been awful, and he'll probably be around one more year, but I just think Marvin Lewis would be a better fit here.
[/quote]

You don't remember the defense taking Brees out of his rhythm, especially in key situations, just a few weeks ago?

The blitz not getting there doesn't solely mean Mattison's schemes aren't good enough or he doesn't have a feel for the game. For years, against the top teams, I watched Rex send wave after wave of blitzers, only for them to picked up and the defense get torched on the back end. It was particularly glaring in '07 when injuries hit the defensive backfield hard. That happened a lot yesterday and I'm sure Mattison found himself in a familiar dilemma, to continue blitzing and expose the secondary or put more people in coverage and hope the d-line can get pressure. He went with the latter and as we've seen so many times this season, if Suggs couldn't beat his man no one else did.

So when exactly has he blitzed when he shouldn't have?

[FerrariFan87]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1294080380' post='592017']
You don't remember the defense taking Brees out of his rhythm, especially in key situations, just a few weeks ago?

The blitz not getting there doesn't solely mean Mattison's schemes aren't good enough or he doesn't have a feel for the game. For years, against the top teams, I watched Rex send wave after wave of blitzers, only for them to picked up and the defense get torched on the back end. It was particularly glaring in '07 when injuries hit the defensive backfield hard. That happened a lot yesterday and I'm sure Mattison found himself in a familiar dilemma, to continue blitzing and expose the secondary or put more people in coverage and hope the d-line can get pressure. He went with the latter and as we've seen so many times this season, if Suggs couldn't beat his man no one else did.

So when exactly has he blitzed when he shouldn't have?
[/quote]

I can't point to a particular play or plays, that would be nearly impossible. I can only say that there have been numerous occasions this year when we've blitzed and blitzed and blitzed without getting anywhere, and we proceeded to get burned when conventional wisdom would tell you to stop blitzing because it's not working.

Insanity is often defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result: That's how I view Mattison's blitzing at this point.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1294080984' post='592023']
I can't point to a particular play or plays, that would be nearly impossible. I can only say that there have been numerous occasions this year when we've blitzed and blitzed and blitzed without getting anywhere, and we proceeded to get burned when conventional wisdom would tell you to stop blitzing because it's not working.

Insanity is often defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result: That's how I view Mattison's blitzing at this point.
[/quote]

But how can you say Mattison should have stopped blitzing on "numerous occasions" but not even bring up a specific example? To me, it just sounds like doubting a decision in hindsight. It's different when questioning offensive decisions because different scenarios have conventional strategies but on defense, unless a stop is made or a turnover generated, any single call can be picked part after the fact.

Had Mattison stopped blitzing in the situations you're referring to, he'd be lambasted for not blitzing enough. When you're not blitzing, you're putting more people in coverage and we've seen him do that often only for the defense to still get beat. At some point, you not only have to credit the other team for making plays but also look at the dearth of talent as well.

[FerrariFan87]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1294082366' post='592053']
But how can you say Mattison should have stopped blitzing on "numerous occasions" but not even bring up a specific example? To me, it just sounds like doubting a decision in hindsight. It's different when questioning offensive decisions because different scenarios have conventional strategies but on defense, unless a stop is made or a turnover generated, any single call can be picked part after the fact.

Had Mattison stopped blitzing in the situations you're referring to, he'd be lambasted for not blitzing enough. When you're not blitzing, you're putting more people in coverage and we've seen him do that often only for the defense to still get beat. At some point, you not only have to credit the other team for making plays but also look at the dearth of talent as well.
[/quote]

99.99% of the things we talk about on here deal with some sort of hindsight or revisionist history. Mattison's been a fine DC, but if Marvin Lewis said he'd want to come back in that same capacity, given his past success here, how can you say no?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1294082771' post='592060']
99.99% of the things we talk about on here deal with some sort of hindsight or revisionist history. Mattison's been a fine DC, but if Marvin Lewis said he'd want to come back in that same capacity, given his past success here, how can you say no?
[/quote]

Because again, the incumbent has done nothing to deserved being fired.

For all the nitpicking he's still fielded a relatively good defense both years here, despite dealing with key injuries and an inconsistent offensive unit that has trouble staying on the field.

[Jamal]

As much as I would love to have Marvin back, I think I'd focus more on a new OC before DC.

Sure the defense isn't as dominant as it used to be, but Matty still gets the job done. And if you actually look at the D, its not as talented as Pittsburgh yet Mattison still has it #3 in terms of PA.

Hes overachieving while Cam is severely underachieving.

[ravensfan160]

All other reasons aside, I wouldn't want Marvin Lewis back for the simple fact that he would probably be one and done. I wouldn't be surprised if he coached again after one year. I personally think he's a great head coach but when the owner insists on making offseason moves that Lewis was clearly against, he isn't given much chance to succeed.

[edreedfromtheu]

No matter who the coordinator is, this defense is going to need to be resupplied soon anyway.

They've neglected it to help Flacco out... and they are shallow on depth across the board. They've got servicable safeties, but nobody that I think should feel that their job is safe.

Linebackers is the huge weakness. After Ray... I'm not fond of ANY of the LBs. They hurt the defense in both pcoverage and when they are called upon to blitz. Once Ray is gone, or should Ray get hurt, the linebackers are then WEAK. After Suggs, there is no defensive ends to speak of. And the interior of the defensive line needs help. If Terrence Cody progresses, and can play 3 downs regularly... great. But even if that happens, they still need depth because Kelly Gregg is just another year older and he's definitely not aging like Ray Lewis is.

The only position I'm actually okay with is corner. Lardarius Webb and Dominique Foxworth are still under contract. If they re-sign Josh Wilson... that's a pretty good start. I don't want Chris Carr, but as long as he's just there for depth I don't mind it nearly as much. For whatever reason, a lot of people think he's good. So if that's the case... that only furthers my point that this is probably the strongest unit on the defense.

But yeah, no matter who the coordinator ends up being. Whether Mattison stays, or they bring in someone else... the players will have to be upgraded and replenished. And I don't even want to think about what happens if Ngata decides he'd like to play in a new city... of course, there's always a franchise tag for that.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1294086120' post='592136']
For whatever reason, a lot of people think he's good.
[/quote]

Could it be because he's actually been solid this season?

I agreed with the rest of your post though.

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1294086120' post='592136']
I don't want Chris Carr, but as long as he's just there for depth I don't mind it nearly as much. For whatever reason, a lot of people think he's good.
[/quote]
He's better than good. He's a good outside corner, but where he really shines is in the slot. He's handled some really good slot receivers this year like Wes Welker and most recently Jordan Shipley. Covering the slot is difficult so I think it needs to be judged a little differently than outside coverage since its harder to give help for the slot receiver.

[jdynamite]

Marvin would be perfect because our current personnel would fit the old 4-3 space clotting system that he used to protect Ray with.. With Cody, McKinney, Ngata, And Gregg we have plenty of beef up front.. Suggs rarely drops in coverage anyway so he would naturally be a rush end on many plays like McCrary role...

When I look at the current defense none of the 3 inside backers McClain, Ellerbe, Gooden has stepped up in the way that E.Hartwell, A.Thomas, B.Scott did in years past. Personally I feel that Gooden should play outside linebacker so that his speed can be used more in blitz and coverage situations from the edge. (Gooden did a great job blitzing from the outside in the Saints Game I think it was, when he was applying pressure)

JJ is very versatile and reliable, No comments on Kindle because he hasn't seen an NFL field yet!

L.Webb makes good plays then bad plays, but he is still young... he Reminds me of D.Starks..
I would like to see Cary Williams play, he had a great preseason but never saw much regular season action

[jdynamite]

If we decide to continue running a 3-4 hybrid defense like now, then Ozzie should strongly consider hiring Wade Philips as the Defensive Coordinator, I said a million times that Norv Turner and Wade Philips are great coordinators but not head coaches... Wade Philips lead defense usually do well ( I do not count his dallas defenses of these last two years because he had to balance being HC with DC)

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='jdynamite' timestamp='1294115494' post='592797']
With Cody, McKinney, Ngata, And Gregg we have plenty of beef up front..
[/quote]

There's beef inside but none of them are consistent pass rushers. Hypothetically, if this team were to go to a 4-3 alignment, they'd need at least one DT that can actually generate pressure like Barry Cofield with the Giants.

[757RavensFan]

Don't have to worry about it, he's staying in Cincy.

[JO_75]

[quote name='757RavensFan' timestamp='1294157468' post='593044']
Don't have to worry about it, he's staying in Cincy.
[/quote]

I was just about to post this... that is a complete surprise. I think everyone expected him to be fired and this is one of those surprise coaches that keep their job. I would have took Marvin back as DC but it did seem he had the Bengals doing well without TOcho in the game so maybe that is why he is staying. Though I do wonder how much the threat of a lockout also kept the Bengals from firing him.