This Does Not Mean Anything..except

[scrock]

** Note: Sorry if this has already been posted **

Matt Ryan making the Pro Bowl doesn't mean anything, Joe Flacco has almost identical numbers and has done just as much if not more for his team this year. He also has a winning record in the playoffs, something Matt Ryan knows nothing about.

Matt Ryan made the Pro Bowl because he plays in the inferior conference. Matty 'Ice' does not have Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Phillip Rivers, and even Big Ben to contend with. The elite QBs are stacked in the AFC and not so much in the NFC. So any QB that has a good year has a shot at the Pro Bowl in the NFC.

Sure, you have Mike Vick, Drew Brees, and Aaron Rodgers over in the NFC but I think we can all agree that Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are much harder to contend with.

The Pro Bowl is a popularity contest anyway, this makes me sick. Now that Ryan has made a Pro Bowl all the naysayers will be bringing this fact up when trying to talk bad about Joe. Ryan's nice little winning streak at home got to much publicity this year it was disgusting, I'm sure that helped him gain some momentum. Joe gets barely any mention of all the things he has done in his 3 years.

It's sad but I don't see Joe making the Pro Bowl ever unless he truly puts up some eye popping stats, so undeniable that they can't keep him off the list. As long as Manning, Brady, and those guys are around he will keep getting the shaft. Yet, I feel now that Ryan has made it once he will be a yearly fixture unless he really falters.

I just don't want that to be people's argument on why they think Ryan is better than Flacco. You must take into account the AFC's dominance over the NFC for the past decade or more.

How would Ryan fair in the AFC? Flacco in the NFC? I seriously doubt Ryan makes the Pro Bowl if he had Manning and Brady, etc going up against him.

The media plays a part in this too, Ryan is their new golden boy who can do no wrong and our Joe just quietly does his thing and keeps on winning and setting records.

[ravens13]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1293640445' post='587784']
** Note: Sorry if this has already been posted **

Matt Ryan making the Pro Bowl doesn't mean anything, Joe Flacco has almost identical numbers and has done just as much if not more for his team this year. He also has a winning record in the playoffs, something Matt Ryan knows nothing about.

Matt Ryan made the Pro Bowl because he plays in the inferior conference. Matty 'Ice' does not have Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Phillip Rivers, and even Big Ben to contend with. The elite QBs are stacked in the AFC and not so much in the NFC. So any QB that has a good year has a shot at the Pro Bowl in the NFC.

Sure, you have Mike Vick, Drew Brees, and Aaron Rodgers over in the NFC but I think we can all agree that Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are much harder to contend with.

The Pro Bowl is a popularity contest anyway, this makes me sick. Now that Ryan has made a Pro Bowl all the naysayers will be bringing this fact up when trying to talk bad about Joe. Ryan's nice little winning streak at home got to much publicity this year it was disgusting, I'm sure that helped him gain some momentum. Joe gets barely any mention of all the things he has done in his 3 years.

It's sad but I don't see Joe making the Pro Bowl ever unless he truly puts up some eye popping stats, so undeniable that they can't keep him off the list. As long as Manning, Brady, and those guys are around he will keep getting the shaft. Yet, I feel now that Ryan has made it once he will be a yearly fixture unless he really falters.

I just don't want that to be people's argument on why they thing Ryan is better than Flacco. You must take into account the AFC's dominance over the NFC for the past decade or more.

How would Ryan fair in the AFC? Flacco in the NFC? I seriously doubt Ryan makes the Pro Bowl if he had Manning and Brady, etc going up against him.

The media plays a part in this too, Ryan is their new golden boy who can do no wrong and our Joe just quietly does his thing and keeps on winning and setting records.
[/quote]

I agree with everything you said, but look at the positive side. Ryan's agent can use this as ammunition when his contract is up. Flacco's agent won't be able to. Hopefully, that will allow us to keep some of our other good players around. It's unfair, but Flacco will likely make less than Ryan on his next contract...unless he wins a superbowl or two in the next few years.

[jus'_crAzy]

Flacco just needs to get better than Brady, Manning, Rivers, and the <[i]guy from Pittsburgh[/i]>.

Problem solved.

If people keep telling you that Ryan is better than Flacco, then just ask them why their conference continually allows teams from the NFC West get into the Super Bowl.

[FerrariFan87]

Flacco has to have the edge until Ryan wins at least one playoff game... the fact that Joe already has 3 (all on the Road no less) is astounding.

[scrock]

[quote name='ravens13' timestamp='1293640898' post='587786']
I agree with everything you said, but look at the positive side. Ryan's agent can use this as ammunition when his contract is up. Flacco's agent won't be able to. Hopefully, that will allow us to keep some of our other good players around. It's unfair, but Flacco will likely make less than Ryan on his next contract...unless he wins a superbowl or two in the next few years.
[/quote]

When the time comes, it's unavoidable, Joe is going to get paid. He's a franchise quarterback. Good thing for us though is that he is sensible and winning is important to him. So, I can see him taking less like Manning did for the team to have more maneuverability in free agency or resigning other players.

[Alexir]

It should of been Vick, Rodgers and Ryan for NFC. Tom, Phillip, and Flacco for AFC. Matt Cassel turned it on late in the season but basically is a product of running the ball efficiently and having a guy named Dwayne Bowe.

[theFRANCHISE]

I dont concern myself with Matt Ryan nor do I care that he has a Pro Bowl nod. Good for him and Falcons fans.

Both QBs have identical numbers and I'm fine with that. I'd still take Flacco over Ryan, but that doesn't make either man the lesser QB in having a preference. No jealousy, no hate, no criticism needed. They've both accomplished great things and will both continue to have great careers, so even though they'll continually be compared, why try to downplay either man's accomplishments? Why demean what Ryan has done just to make Flacco look good, or vice versa?

We're blessed to have both guys playing in this league and playing well. It makes for better competition and a better on-field product.

[True]

These recent upbringings of Matt Ryan are starting to really show an inferiority complex. OP, while I have no qualm with what you believe, you have to look past the numbers.

Do they both have nearly identical stats? Yes. Can there be a difference made between one playing in a weaker conference and against weaker opponents? Sure. But when judging a QB it is not all about the numbers.

Matt Ryan from the very beginning was pro ready and ahead of Flacco in terms of development. Remember, Flacco was supposed to sit his first year and learn the offense. He is technically still in his 2nd year of development and has time to grow.

Ryan has better mechanics, pocket presence, agility, and is clutch. He drastically helped a franchise that was reeling from the Mike Vick disaster in '06 and has 3 straight winning seasons (when they never had back to back winning seasons in 40+ years). He is a very good QB on the verge of greatness. Joe Flacco, who came from a less decorated college program wasn't expected to save a franchise which had a pretty solid roster and was coming off an injury plauged season prior to a 13-3 record two years ago. The Ravens weren't in the same horrible state as the Falcons were. Flacco started off from a game manager to a QB that can be relied to lead a team. He is still learning, developing, and is far from reaching his prime. He can only get better from this point as he curtails mistakes in his game.

He has had a spectacular 3rd season posting great numbers, leading come back drives, and improving his mechanics from years prior. His next hurdle is becoming great in the post season. If you want to play the numbers game, then you have to look at Flacco's playoff stats which are absolutely putrid and would never think a QB with those numbers could have won 3 road playoff games. But you know what? When you actually look past the numbers you can see some of the crucial plays he made that helped the team. The rushing TD at the end of the 4th to kill any chances of the Dolphins coming back. The pass to Todd Heap against the Titans to help seal the game. That big run with a bruised hip on 3rd and long against the Pats to pick up the 1st down and help close out the game.

People won't remember any of those plays if they only look at his stats. That is the same fallacy that people fall into when matching up Matt Ryan with Joe Flacco. Numbers don't define a player, but also how they play the game. It's what you've done to help your team succeed and put them in a position to win. As the great one Micheal Jordan always said "Let your game speak"

[gabefergy]

[quote name='jus'_crAzy' timestamp='1293642245' post='587788']
Flacco just needs to get better than Brady, Manning, Rivers, and the <[i]guy from Pittsburgh[/i]>.

Problem solved.

If people keep telling you that Ryan is better than Flacco, then just ask them why their conference continually allows teams from the NFC West get into the Super Bowl.
[/quote]
Unfortunately, its not just a matter of getting better. Joe is going to have to get to a SB (and win it) before he starts getting recognition in the AFC. Rivers is going to be around for a long time, and Brady/Manning are still playing at a high level.

edit: Flacco is a better QB than Matt Ryan in my eyes, sure I am a little biased but when I watch Ryan play I'm not overwhelmed. Flacco has a stronger arm, throws a better deep ball, and is slightly more accurate with his throws.

Ryan has a similar completion % to Joe, but YPA is a yard less. That is a pretty glaring statistic, basically he is in a dink and dunk offense.

[scrock]

Joe Flacco is more accurate and has a higher QB rating for his career and this season.

Flacco (2010) - 94.6 Rating, 25 TDs, 9 INTs , Ryan - 89.8 Rating, 26 TDs, 9 INTs
Flacco (2010) - 62.1% Completion, 7.4 Yards per Attempt, Ryan - 62.2% Completion, 6.4 Yards per Attempt

For their careers Joe has a 88.2 QB Rating and 61.8% completion rate, Ryan has a 86.4 rating and 60.6% completion rate.

They really are almost identical except for the fact Joe has done more in the playoffs.

Career Totals

Joe Flacco 10,081 yds, 60 TDs , 31 INTs
Matt Ryan 9,825 yds, 64 TDs , 34 INTs

[scrock]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1293646550' post='587829']
I dont concern myself with Matt Ryan nor do I care that he has a Pro Bowl nod. Good for him and Falcons fans.

Both QBs have identical numbers and I'm fine with that. I'd still take Flacco over Ryan, but that doesn't make either man the lesser QB in having a preference. No jealousy, no hate, no criticism needed. They've both accomplished great things and will both continue to have great careers, so even though they'll continually be compared, why try to downplay either man's accomplishments? Why demean what Ryan has done just to make Flacco look good, or vice versa?

We're blessed to have both guys playing in this league and playing well. It makes for better competition and a better on-field product.
[/quote]

I don't hate Ryan you are not understanding the meaning for my post here. I hate the way the media portrays Ryan to be this quarterback being ELITE and yet Joe gets no mention at all and he has put up the same if not better numbers.

[scrock]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1293646578' post='587831']
These recent upbringings of Matt Ryan are starting to really show an inferiority complex. OP, while I have no qualm with what you believe, you have to look past the numbers.

Do they both have nearly identical stats? Yes. Can there be a difference made between one playing in a weaker conference and against weaker opponents? Sure. But when judging a QB it is not all about the numbers.

[b]Matt Ryan from the very beginning was pro ready and ahead of Flacco in terms of development.[/b] Remember, Flacco was supposed to sit his first year and learn the offense. He is technically still in his 2nd year of development and has time to grow.

[b]Ryan has better mechanics, pocket presence, agility, and is clutch. He drastically helped a franchise that was reeling from the Mike Vick disaster in '06 and has 3 straight winning seasons (when they never had back to back winning seasons in 40+ years). He is a very good QB on the verge of greatness. Joe Flacco, who came from a less decorated college program wasn't expected to save a franchise which had a pretty solid roster and was coming off an injury plauged season prior to a 13-3 record two years ago. The Ravens weren't in the same horrible state as the Falcons were.[/b] Flacco started off from a game manager to a QB that can be relied to lead a team. He is still learning, developing, and is far from reaching his prime. He can only get better from this point as he curtails mistakes in his game.

[b]He has had a spectacular 3rd season posting great numbers, leading come back drives, and improving his mechanics from years prior. [/b]His next hurdle is becoming great in the post season. If you want to play the numbers game, then you have to look at Flacco's playoff stats which are absolutely putrid and would never think a QB with those numbers could have won 3 road playoff games. But you know what? When you actually look past the numbers you can see some of the crucial plays he made that helped the team. The rushing TD at the end of the 4th to kill any chances of the Dolphins coming back. The pass to Todd Heap against the Titans to help seal the game. That big run with a bruised hip on 3rd and long against the Pats to pick up the 1st down and help close out the game.

People won't remember any of those plays if they only look at his stats. That is the same fallacy that people fall into when matching up Matt Ryan with Joe Flacco. Numbers don't define a player, but also how they play the game. It's what you've done to help your team succeed and put them in a position to win. As the great one Micheal Jordan always said "Let your game speak"
[/quote]

I could refute everything you said but I won't because I have already spent too much time on this and spammed my own thread.

[scrock]

lol, sorry couldnt help myself...last thing for now

[b]"2 minutes ago - QB Joe Flacco’s 31 wins as a starter during his first three regular seasons are third-most since the AFL-NFL merger in 1970. Miami’s Dan Marino had 33 from 1983-1985 and Atlanta’s Matt Ryan has 32 since entering the league in 2008. Ravens RapidReports"[/b]

[Pavli123]

There is only one way to for people to jump off Matt Ryan's bandwagon. Joe needs to win the Super Bowl which I believe we have the talent to do this year and moving forward. I can just picture Joe Flacco leading our Ravens in the 4th quarter with 2 minutes to go in the Super Bowl, and throwing that TD. I can already imagine him jumping around and screaming his head off. Man I cant wait for our Super Bowl run to begin! GO RAVENS

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1293647082' post='587843']
I don't hate Ryan you are not understanding the meaning for my post here. I hate the way the media portrays Ryan to be this quarterback being ELITE and yet Joe gets no mention at all and he has put up the same if not better numbers.
[/quote]
I don't know, the NFL Network regularly praises Flacco (I'm an avid viewer), and he's gotten a lot of love in fantasy football circles. While he doesn't have the hype of Ryan, also keep in mind that Baltimore's media market is smaller than Atlanta, so there is inherently less attention paid there.

Honestly, I don't care about the media coverage or portrayal. There's only so much airtime afforded to all 32 teams with so many storylines and so many star players, there'll always be someone snubbed in some way. I'm just happy that Flacco is winning and playing well in the process.

[jus'_crAzy]

@gabefergy-
I think winning the Super Bowl to get recognition is a bit extreme... (even though that's exactly what's gonna happen this year! wassap!)

Rivers hasn't won a Super Bowl but gained recognition by putting up sick numbers every year. What's to say Joe doesn't do the same?

[True]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1293647245' post='587847']
I could refute everything you said but I won't because I have already spent too much time on this and spammed my own thread.
[/quote]
I gave my opinion on the subject matter. You have no obligation to reply to my post, but if you wish to counteract any of my arguments then feel free to do so and I will do my best to respond.

[Sizzle]

I am tired of this bull crap defending of Flacco. If anyone had watched a falcons game, its obvious Ryan is a leader of men on that team. I wont even give examples how many teams we couldn't put away cause of him, i think you all know that. Lets be honest would you rather take Ryan or Flacco when we travel to Indy in 2 weeks?

And if i hear about flaccos stats one more time saying "flacco has 94 passer rating so does Manning" i will shoot myself on the foot. Its obvious flaccos stats are inflated, coaches have to feed him with a sliver spoon before every play, there is a reason there is no urgency its because of our great D. Its kind of funny even our no-huddle offense requires us to huddle, thats how slow the offense is and i cant blame the other guys because it all starts at the QB position.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Sizzle' timestamp='1293648739' post='587870']
I am tired of this bull crap defending of Flacco. If anyone had watched a falcons game, its obvious Ryan is a leader of men on that team. I wont even give examples how many teams we couldn't put away cause of him, i think you all know that. Lets be honest would you rather take Ryan or Flacco when we travel to Indy in 2 weeks?

And if i hear about flaccos stats one more time saying "flacco has 94 passer rating so does Manning" i will shoot myself on the foot. [b]Its obvious flaccos stats are inflated, coaches have to feed him with a sliver spoon before every play, there is a reason there is no urgency its because of our great D.[/b] Its kind of funny even our no-huddle offense requires us to huddle, thats how slow the offense is and i cant blame the other guys because it all starts at the QB position.
[/quote]

How Joe's statistics inflated? Please explain...

And how do the coaches "feed him with a silver spoon" before every play? Can you elaborate?

[FerrariFan87]

It's amazing how Joe gets blasted for check-downs, but if you watch any of the elite QB's, they check-down all the time and are regularly praised for it. Checking down is a good play, especially since Joe has consistently scanned down-field first, only to find no one open (because Cam only uses two-man routes), and instead of forcing it, he's found Rice, Willis, etc. for the "sure thing."

[DieHardBMoreFan]

Here is a question to ask yourself....

Do ANY of the pro-bowl voted QB's have such a power running attack?

The simple answer is NO. Big Ben would be the closest with Menden-but we all saw Menden's numbers drop when Ben returned.

Joe will never get the league's attention because we're not a #1 pass team. And while Cam does have great skill, ability, and playbook-nothing is designed for Joe's strengths.

[UMDan]

I'm really tired of hearing about "Matty Ice." During both games I've watched them play this season (vs. the Ravens, and the MNF game this past week) the commentators are going nuts over him because they think he's the next generation of elite QB. Whatever. He's a good QB but I'm tired of hearing about how great he is.

I like that Flacco is under the radar a little, I think he's on the same level and maybe that's me being a homer but I think Flacco is going to be Baltimore's franchise QB for a long time coming, and he's only getting better.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='DieHardBMoreFan' timestamp='1293651400' post='587909']
Here is a question to ask yourself....

Do ANY of the pro-bowl voted QB's have such a power running attack?

The simple answer is NO. Big Ben would be the closest with Menden-but we all saw Menden's numbers drop when Ben returned.

Joe will never get the league's attention because we're not a #1 pass team. [b]And while Cam does have great skill, ability, and playbook-nothing is designed for Joe's strengths.[/b]
[/quote]

Cam doesn't have a good playbook.

As for plays designed for Joe's strengths, the comeback/curl route to Mason and occasionally Q is the only play I'd say that is consistently called and works for this team.

[scrock]

[quote name='Sizzle' timestamp='1293648739' post='587870']
I am tired of this bull crap defending of Flacco. If anyone had watched a falcons game, its obvious Ryan is a leader of men on that team. I wont even give examples how many teams we couldn't put away cause of him, i think you all know that. Lets be honest would you rather take Ryan or Flacco when we travel to Indy in 2 weeks?

And if i hear about flaccos stats one more time saying "flacco has 94 passer rating so does Manning" i will shoot myself on the foot. Its obvious flaccos stats are inflated, coaches have to feed him with a sliver spoon before every play, there is a reason there is no urgency its because of our great D. Its kind of funny even our no-huddle offense requires us to huddle, thats how slow the offense is and i cant blame the other guys because it all starts at the QB position.
[/quote]

I would take Joe over Ryan everytime, Flacco has more upside and Ryan is one of those guys that is going to peak and only go so far.

[clayton89]

[quote name='Sizzle' timestamp='1293648739' post='587870']
I am tired of this bull crap defending of Flacco. If anyone had watched a falcons game, its obvious Ryan is a leader of men on that team. I wont even give examples how many teams we couldn't put away cause of him, i think you all know that. Lets be honest would you rather take Ryan or Flacco when we travel to Indy in 2 weeks?

And if i hear about flaccos stats one more time saying "flacco has 94 passer rating so does Manning" i will shoot myself on the foot. Its obvious flaccos stats are inflated, coaches have to feed him with a sliver spoon before every play, there is a reason there is no urgency its because of our great D. Its kind of funny even our no-huddle offense requires us to huddle, thats how slow the offense is and i cant blame the other guys because it all starts at the QB position.
[/quote]
its funny, i didnt know flacco played defense? hey a win is a win in the nfl, i dont care how our team got it. Yeah flacco has had some ups and downs, yes i know everyone remembers the steelers game but look at how many times he has brought us back and then the defense gives it up. I would take joe as my quarterback anyday and i would take the Baltimore Ravens over any other team in the nfl.

[codizzle]

The only thing that ticks me off about Ryan is that he led a game winning drive against us...about the probowl i could care less...

We got our qb

[BrownsFan]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1293647973' post='587861']
I don't know, the NFL Network regularly praises Flacco (I'm an avid viewer), and he's gotten a lot of love in fantasy football circles. While he doesn't have the hype of Ryan, also keep in mind that Baltimore's media market is smaller than Atlanta, so there is inherently less attention paid there.[/quote]


Seriously these words are so true. I can think of a time when the Ravens were mentioned and not one single player on offense was brought up; now just about every time they are brought up Flacco is immediately mentioned.

Besides some people that still think Flacco sucks I don't see what the big deal is. He's done you good.

(FWIW this is becoming the new Troy Smith topic killer)

[TSizzle00]

[quote name='FerrariFan87' timestamp='1293649667' post='587889']
It's amazing how Joe gets blasted for check-downs, but if you watch any of the elite QB's, they check-down all the time and are regularly praised for it. Checking down is a good play, especially since Joe has consistently scanned down-field first, only to find no one open (because Cam only uses two-man routes), and instead of forcing it, he's found Rice, Willis, etc. for the "sure thing."
[/quote]

Especially when a certain NE QB gets away with dump off passes to Wes Welker and his TEs on a regular basis. And before 2007 thats all he did.

[TSizzle00]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1293667445' post='588113']
The only thing that ticks me off about Ryan is that he led a game winning drive against us...about the probowl i could care less...

We got our qb
[/quote]

Flacco did the same thing to them except the Ravens D didn't hold so he was not the "hero"

[berad]

[quote name='TSizzle00' timestamp='1293681018' post='588209']
Flacco did the same thing to them except the Ravens D didn't hold so he was not the "hero"
[/quote]

Exactly. If our D stops them or Roddy White gets called for pushing Josh Wilson to the ground, Joe looks like a hero. It's a team sport, at the end of the day.