Tom Brady = Possibly Best NFL QB Ever?

[BrownsFan]

I'll start by saying this; take your Patriots or Tom Brady hate elsewhere please. I am not a Patriots fan but I respect how good they are.

Now.. I don't typically listen to Colin Cowherd but he brought up a very interesting point that I thought I'd share and get other posters opinions on. He made this comment:


"You do realize that if the Patriots win the Super Bowl this year.. and Tom Brady wins the Super Bowl MVP award (which Cowherd believes he will because there's nobody else on that offense that would).. Tom Brady will officially be the best NFL QB ever to play the game."


I got to thinking about it... Brady would have 4 Super Bowl wins, 5 total Super Bowl appearances and 3 Super Bowl MVP awards. It is very difficult to argue that Cowherd is right on this. To me the only others that are close to this are Montana (4 SBs, 3 SB MVPs) and Bradshaw (4 SBs, 2 SB MVPs).

What say all of you?

[JO_75]

Tom Brady is the best SYSTEM QB Ever.

[theFRANCHISE]

I think, system or no system, it's hard to argue against Tom Brady's success. Ironically, while he had his best statistical season [i]with[/i] superstar receivers, he's actually won championships [i]without [/i]them. While credit deservedly should be shared with Bill Belichick, it's still up to the players to perform, and no other QB has mastered the Patriot Way quite like Brady. Critics may point to Matt Cassel's success in relief of Brady, but at the same time, there's a reason why backup QBs have played horribly in preseason and mop-up duty, and that's simply because they can't execute as well as Brady can. Remember, no scheme can make up for a lack of execution, and schemes can only mask deficiencies for so long before actual ability comes into play.

If greatness is measured by championships and wins, Brady certainly trumps them all. If greatness is measured by statistics, he trumps most except Peyton Manning and Dan Marino, among a couple of others. If greatness is measured by a combination of both, then Brady certainly wins the argument, hands-down. Brady has won close games, blowouts, clutch victories, road games, home games, weather games, domed games, overtime games, preseason games, regular season games, postseason games, championship games -- virtually any type of game you can think of, Brady has won. Brady wins, and he has the hardware and numbers to back up his greatness.

[Ed_Reed20]

The system talk is just ridiculous to me. Has the system helped develop Brady's other-worldly pocket awareness(a skill some QB [i]never[/i] develop), mobility, accuracy or obvious desire to win? I don't think so.

Franny essentially covered all there is to be know about Brady the player so I won't rehash it but I just wanted to address the system comment.

[BrownsFan]

Not to go completely off-topic but I am impressed at how well Cassel has played with Kansas City. I didn't think he was horrible by any means but he's done more than I expected there.

To add onto the system talk I'm with others and don't care about that.. system or not you cannot deny what he has done and it's difficult to not put him right up there in the top 3-4 ever if not THE top.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1292949710' post='582536']
Tom Brady is the best SYSTEM QB Ever.
[/quote]
Is Joe Montanta the best system QB ever? Pretty sure him and Walsh invented the West Coast to what it is today, and pretty sure theres no better West Coast QB than Montana.

[PWNEDbyDEANO]

A great QB in a good system.

I'm not downplaying the fact that he is definitely one of the best QBs ever, I respect and admire the career than he's had. He is obviously a player of undeniable, tremendous skill, which he has proven time again with his Superbowl victories and other records.

The system arguement being that he's never been surrounded by a [i]bad[/i] supporting cast. He's always had a solid or better team around him. He's had a terrific coach around for a long time in Belichick. If he was on a bad team, he wouldn't have shone so much, but would still have been good.

[lgcs27288]

If we go by stats he has half that of Peyton Manning in passing yards.

His 16-0 season and Super Bowls speak for themselves though as much as I hate it.

I wouldnt say best of all time.

[hawkprey]

Pats went 11-5 without him in '08. Hard to believe all the success is because of Brady. He could be the most successful but not the best.

[Jamal]

Hes easily in the top 5. Even the biggest haters have to put him in the top 10.

I've been saying I would take him over Manning for years. People are just beginning to realize it.

[MagicianCamille]

I think you have to say he is, or at least top 2. Joe Montana had talent around him. Steve Young had a winning franchise when he took over. Troy Aikman (my personal favorite) had Irvin and Smith and a host of other talented guys on both sides of the field.

Tom Brady has got it done with a cast full of no-names, he makes the guys around him play exceptionally, and once they leave they fall off the map entirely. He's got 3 rings and might be on his way to a fourth this year. If the Pats win, he's #1 all-time no question. If he doesn't get a fourth ring, the case for Joe Montana can always be made.

[hawkprey]

I believe last year we were talking about Manning being the best ever, because Peyton was the best QB last year. We're talking about Brady now because he's playing the best this year. But the best all-time? Come on. All Ravens fans know just because a QB won the Super Bowl doesn't make him great, and just because someone won 3 (pending 4) doesn't make him the best of all time. Sure he's great, but he is in no way the greatest. Matt Cassel won 11 games in his first year starting with the same "no name" bunch. Why are we overlooking this? Manning averages almost 10 points higher in QB rating per year. Brady's not the best now.

[K-Dog]

As much as it pains me I really dont have a lot of argument against her being the "best ever".

As close as I could get is "win as a team loose as a team"

I mean Princess Brady with the Raiders or Lions or any other team with a struggling O line and receivers.
Yes she still would be good, but not as good.

[Gremraven]

No. I would give that title to Johnny U or Joe Montana. You can say scheme, but all great QBs had great schemes. Can anyone, off the top of their head name more than one defenses play on Johhny's or Joe's team? I can name only Ronnie Lott from the Niners. While i can name several defenses players from the pats 3 superbowl wins. That may just because they are much closer in the time-line than the others. Opinions are opinions, people argue this till the cows come home. My rant

Give manning a defense like the early 2000's pats and he would of won more superbowl.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Gremraven' timestamp='1292985648' post='582954']
No. I would give that title to Johnny U or Joe Montana. You can say scheme, but all great QBs had great schemes. [b]Can anyone, off the top of their head name more than one defenses play on Johhny's or Joe's team? I can name only Ronnie Lott from the Niners.[/b] While i can name several defenses players from the pats 3 superbowl wins. That may just because they are much closer in the time-line than the others. Opinions are opinions, people argue this till the cows come home. My rant

Give manning a defense like the early 2000's pats and he would of won more superbowl.
[/quote]

Hall of Famers Art Donovan and Gino Marchetti played on the '58 Colts championship team.

As for the good to great defensive players that played with Montana on those championship 9ers teams, here's a short list:

Eric Wright
Dwight Hicks
Jack Reynolds
Fred Dean
Keena Turner
Carlton Williamson
Charles Haley
Ronnie Lott

[Gremraven]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1292986717' post='582960']
Hall of Famers Art Donovan and Gino Marchetti played on the '58 Colts championship team.

As for the good to great defensive players that played with Montana on those championship 9ers teams, here's a short list:
Eric Wright
Dwight Hicks
Jack Reynolds
Fred Dean
Keena Turner
Carlton Williamson

My agruement has effectively become null and void. Unless of course you Looked them up. I am having a hard time believing you remembered all of them. But I have no proof that you did look or did not look.
Charles Haley
Ronnie Lott
[/quote]

[Ed_Reed20]

I have an NFL Films DVD pack of the 49ers champion seasons so I know the players.

[Gremraven]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1292988559' post='582975']
I have an NFL Films DVD pack of the 49ers champion seasons so I know the players.
[/quote]
I am losing more and more ground. Maybe if I ever do go over this argument, iwill try a different approach. Still take away brady's defense, maybe he wins one. Manning didn't have a great defense in 06', never has had one. But i must continue this argument tommorow, it's time to sleep.

[darklight1216]

I don't think that everyone will ever agree on who the best qb of all time was (or in this case "is"), but Brady is undeniably among the best.


That said, this time last season the talking heads were saying that one more championship win would prove the Manning was the greatest of all time.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Gremraven' timestamp='1292988935' post='582977']
I am losing more and more ground. Maybe if I ever do go over this argument, iwill try a different approach. Still take away brady's defense, maybe he wins one. Manning didn't have a great defense in 06', never has had one. But i must continue this argument tommorow, it's time to sleep.
[/quote]

The Colts defense wasn't great during the regular season but led by Bob Sanders, they were lights out in the post-season. They had to be as well with Peyton playing relatively below-average football.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='Gremraven' timestamp='1292988935' post='582977']
I am losing more and more ground. Maybe if I ever do go over this argument, iwill try a different approach. Still take away brady's defense, maybe he wins one. Manning didn't have a great defense in 06', [b]never has had one.[/b] But i must continue this argument tommorow, it's time to sleep.
[/quote]
I don't know what your definition of "great" is, but the Colts had a top ten scoring defense in 2009, 2008, 2007 (number one), 2005 (second) regular seasons. It's not like Peyton has had nothing to work with.

Brady's highlights include (as of last week):

Best record in freezing temperatures or snow: 19-2 (2001-present)

Best regular-season record of the Super Bowl Era: 108-32 (.771)

Best playoff record of the Super Bowl Era: 14-4 (.778)

Best overall record of the Super Bowl Era: 122-36 (.772)

Most consecutive playoff wins: 10 (2001-05)

Most consecutive overall wins: 21 (2003-04)

Most wins in two seasons: 34 (2003 and 2004)

Second most wins in two seasons: 32 (2006 and 2007)

Most wins in one regular season: 16 (2007)

Most consecutive regular-season wins at home: 26 (2006-present)

Record vs. NFC: 33-6 (.846)

Record vs. NFC North: 10-1 (.909)

Only QB to lead walk-off Super Bowl winning scoring drive (vs. St. Louis, Super Bowl XXXVI)

Only QB to lead two last-second Super Bowl-winning scoring drives (Super Bowl XXXVI and vs. Carolina, Super Bowl XXXVIII)

Fewest NFL starts before winning first Super Bowl: 17 (Brady in 2001)

http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3529_Debate_is_over:_Brady_the_best_in_all_seasons.html

[flynismo]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1292949710' post='582536']<br />Tom Brady is the best SYSTEM QB Ever.<br />[/quote]


True ... Brady is the system. That offense would be garbage without him

[Ed_Reed20]

QB records...*sigh*

[Jamal]

[quote name='Gremraven' timestamp='1292988935' post='582977']
I am losing more and more ground. Maybe if I ever do go over this argument, iwill try a different approach. Still take away brady's defense, maybe he wins one. Manning didn't have a great defense in 06', never has had one. But i must continue this argument tommorow, it's time to sleep.
[/quote]
Actually, if you look at that playoff run, his defense carried him. He wasn't anything special for the most part.

[Alexir]

Brady is a dbag. He is a product of a system. Take away that OL and he is just great. I would never want him on my team.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1293042393' post='583299']
Brady is a dbag. He is a product of a system. [b]Take away that OL and he is just great.[/b] I would never want him on my team.
[/quote]

But which HOF QB didn't have a good to great o-line?

[Jamal]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1293042393' post='583299']
Brady is a dbag. He is a product of a system. Take away that OL and he is just great. I would never want him on my team.
[/quote]
I really hope you were being sarcastic when you said, you would never want him on your team....

[Alexir]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1293043003' post='583307']
But which HOF QB didn't have a good to great o-line?
[/quote]

Brett Favre

[PuRock]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1293042393' post='583299']
Brady is a dbag. He is a product of a system. Take away that OL and he is just great. I would never want him on my team.
[/quote]

The system is a product of Tom Brady.

[Alexir]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1293043097' post='583310']
I really hope you were being sarcastic when you said, you would never want him on your team....
[/quote]

He is a total tool. If you want Beiber on your team, thats your problem. I have no respect for a guy who cries for flags