MERGED: Ellerbe, Gooden, and J.McClain

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='omar586' timestamp='1292820541' post='581521']
that happens when u have not played in a month
[/quote]

The lapses happened even when was getting consistent playing time.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='omar586' timestamp='1292820541' post='581521']
that happens when u have not played in a month
[/quote]
Wait, I thought you quit week one, 1st quarter, first play when we threw an incomplete pass?

[indianstick]

I was impressed with all three of them, I agree that Ellerbe is the most complete out of all three of them. He needs to get smoother in coverage and I feel like he has the potential to do it. I liked how all 3 of the linebackers were used more in the pass rush. They were actually able to get some pressure and shake brees up. I think thats key because it allows us to do a lot more with our defense. They are all still really young and raw but they need to be active every week, especially ellerbe. Stallworth needs to be active too and we could of used him today. Someone mentioned above that we have stallworth and ellerbe active and not cary williams. I don't think thats a good idea, because he has been doing real good on special teams. I would rather have cary williams active than fabian washington, and i think the only reason fabian was active instead of stallworth is bc the saints are one of the most pass happy teams in the league.

Today proves the theory (for all the people that don't believe in it): better pass rush= better pass D

oh yeah..and to RBates..i KNEW someone was gonna post about limiting ray's snaps after the second TD to graham. But as Edreed20 mentioned, he wasnt supposed to be there. And ray had no business being lined up on the outside with reggie bush, no lb should. He may look a LITTLE slower (definetly not "really slow") But Ray has still been owning the middle like hes in his 20s. I think it'd be dumb to take Ray off the field esp when hes still playing as good as any lb in the game right now

[JohnnyBoy8102]

[quote name='indianstick' timestamp='1292826393' post='581579']
I was impressed with all three of them, I agree that Ellerbe is the most complete out of all three of them. He needs to get smoother in coverage and I feel like he has the potential to do it. I liked how all 3 of the linebackers were used more in the pass rush. They were actually able to get some pressure and shake brees up. I think thats key because it allows us to do a lot more with our defense. They are all still really young and raw but they need to be active every week, especially ellerbe. Stallworth needs to be active too and we could of used him today. Someone mentioned above that we have stallworth and ellerbe active and not cary williams. I don't think thats a good idea, because he has been doing real good on special teams. I would rather have cary williams active than fabian washington, and i think the only reason fabian was active instead of stallworth is bc the saints are one of the most pass happy teams in the league.

Today proves the theory (for all the people that don't believe in it): better pass rush= better pass D

o[b]h yeah..and to RBates..i KNEW someone was gonna post about limiting ray's snaps after the second TD to graham. But as Edreed20 mentioned, he wasnt supposed to be there. And ray had no business being lined up on the outside with reggie bush, no lb should.[/b] He may look a LITTLE slower (definetly not "really slow") But Ray has still been owning the middle like hes in his 20s. I think it'd be dumb to take Ray off the field esp when hes still playing as good as any lb in the game right now
[/quote]

Exactly. I provided a link above that showed Bush embarrass Patrick Willis for a TD. I also saw David Harris of the Jets get beat for a TD in coverage and I have seen Urlacher get beat for 3 TDs in coverage the past 2 weeks.

Every player gets beat sometimes but I think we scrutinize our own team the most because we dissect every play.

Ray still hasn't been beaten for a TD in coverage this season.

[The Raven]

[quote name='omar586' timestamp='1292820541' post='581521']
that happens when u have not played in a month
[/quote]

even though he still practices... its not like Harbaugh makes him inactive for practice too...


And as for Ray Ray, love him to death, but I just dont want him in Man Coverage anymore, its getting hard to watch. Just have him cover the middle on passing downs. Zone coverage is his strength.

For the other backers, I really do not know what the answer is. Gooden has been playing a lot better lately, he's improved since last year. i think when Ray retires, T-Good may be his successor. The way he pursues the ball, and the speed he does it with is great. His skill set is better suited as the Mike than the Jack. The Jack's role is to take on FB's and gurads for the Mike to make the tackle. Ellerbe and McClain make good Jacks because they hit the hole hard and play aggressively. Gooden has improved since last year though. Next year, I hope to see more from Phillips. From what I've seen, he can play. He's not the best athlete, like Gooden, but he knows how to play football. He hits the holes like a truck in the running game. He's aggressive and isnt afraid to hit. I know his coverage is bad, but that will improve, just like Suggs' did.

[fistfullwales]

More Ellerbe indeed

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1292795511' post='580866']
He looked like he didn't know whether he was supposed to stay underneath or stick to Henderson during the big 1st-down gain that eventually led to the tipped Moore TD; his body language indicated that he wasn't sure where he was supposed to be. Also, there was another completion to Moore where Ellerbe was supposed to contain the sideline but played Moore too soft and allowed him to make the catch; I believe it was the same pattern that Shockey would later run against JJ, and JJ had Shockey covered perfectly.
[/quote]

your talking about the difference between a TE and a explosive WR. It's understandable for a LB to play soft on a WR, because of the field of that WR getting behind the coverage. With a QB like Brees and a offense like the Saints you'd rather play a bit softer and keep things in front of you rather then give up a huge explosive play.

I actually thing Ellerbe is one of our better young LBs in pass coverage, and he does a really good job of attacking the LOS on the blitz. I can remember him having really good coverage on Wes Welker in the slot last season and there isn't a tougher matchup in the NFL for a LB then Welker.

I also remember him doing a really good job of covering Petterson man to man last season. Now is he prefect, no by any means, but he's definitely more of a asset to the pass defense then a liability. imo

[quote]As critical as I am of Ellerbe, I still think the team is better off keeping all three LBs active than putting Cary Williams on the field; Williams disappeared on special teams and his number was only called because of his mini-altercation with Pierson Priorleau.[/quote]

I disagree with that, Cary Williams is one of our best coverage guys on the Punt unit. He and Marcus Smith are a great duo when pinning opponents inside the 5 yardline. Williams actually did it once in the Saints game, so he definitely didn't disappear.

Cary Williams has played well enough on special teams that the coaches were considering using him more on the defensive side of the ball. So he has definitely done well this year.

[purple.n.black]

I have been impressed with the 3 of them. Gooden has really stepped it up.

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='purple.n.black' timestamp='1292955711' post='582609']
I have been impressed with the 3 of them. Gooden has really stepped it up.
[/quote]
Now if we could only find a mad scientist to genetically merge the three of them we would have the perfect LB to start opposite Ray Ray.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='purple.n.black' timestamp='1292955711' post='582609']
I have been impressed with the 3 of them. Gooden has really stepped it up.
[/quote]

Gooden just really seems to be more comfortable right now. He doesn't seem to be thinking about what he should do as much as before.

They all have much to improve on, but i agree they have been impressive this year.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1292956515' post='582617']
Now if we could only find a mad scientist to genetically merge the three of them we would have the perfect LB to start opposite Ray Ray.
[/quote]

Yea that would be great. It'll be a said day in Baltimore sports history when Ray decides to walk away. I just hope these young guys soak up as much from the Man Ray Lewis, moreso then the player Ray Lewis.

Also watch out for Jason Phillips. This year is basically his rookie year, but he has the chance to develop into something special.

[TSizzle00]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1292813479' post='581387']
Unbelievable.

I noticed Ray get beat a number of times too but why ignore the screens he sniffed out or other times he was in on or around the play today? I'll agree to an extent his snaps may need to be decreased on passing downs but his knowledge of game and how it helps others can't be denied.

On Graham's second TD, Ray was doing his job and was supposed to cover the FB but Nakamura bit hard on the play-fake and left Graham wide open.

I liked what I saw from Ellerbe today too but as Franny brought up, he wasn't without fault either. The young LB trio are talented but this team still needs a stud Mike ILB in my opinion.

And please don't bring up the last pre-season. Explosive? Bradford and the Rams offense may have put up 40 had he not left after the first few series.

You really want the Ravens to blown out? Wow...
[/quote]

If the other 3 were more consistent maybe Ray would be ok with taking some snaps off but even if Ray gets beat in coverage the other three do as well.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='TSizzle00' timestamp='1292957636' post='582640']
If the other 3 were more consistent maybe Ray would be ok with taking some snaps off but even if Ray gets beat in coverage the other three do as well.
[/quote]

Agreed. I've seen both Jameel and Ellerbe make plays in coverage a number of times this year but like you said, more consistency is needed.

[purple.n.black]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1292956515' post='582617']
Now if we could only find a mad scientist to genetically merge the three of them we would have the perfect LB to start opposite Ray Ray.
[/quote]
If only we could do that lol

[jdynamite]

I always wondered why gooden's speed wasn't used more in pass rushing stunts and situations... While I enjoy the rotation I'm still surprise not one of the 3 has just stepped up above the others to claim the position the way A.Thomas did or B.Scott, or E.Hartwell...

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='jdynamite' timestamp='1293114430' post='583774']
I always wondered why gooden's speed wasn't used more in pass rushing stunts and situations... While I enjoy the rotation I'm still surprise not one of the 3 has just stepped up above the others to claim the position the way A.Thomas did or B.Scott, or E.Hartwell...
[/quote]

Maybe because E. Hartwell was the only one that played a major role before his 3rd year in the defense. Both Scott and Thomas were allowed to sit back an learn from guys like Ray, Pete, Jamie, and OJ.

Gooden, Ellerbe, and McClain are all learning on the fly, and in McClain's case he's learning a new position. I think the only thing that has stopped Ellerbe from taking that spot is his youth.

I don't think he had understood what it meant to play like a Raven last season, reports are he didn't work hard enough the following year, he didn't study hard enough. When you are in line to be the starter, you have to out work the guys behind you, and Ellerbe just didn't do that in the offseason. He rested on his success.

Hopefully his demotion and his second chance to be a big impact on this defense last Sunday will open his eyes. It was around this same time last season that Ellerbe started to make a name for himself, hopefully he'll do the same this year.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1292817191' post='581475']
This is dumb on so many different levels, that I don't even know where to start.

But yes, Ellerbe looked good today.
[/quote]
Whats dumb about it. Ray lewis looks slow out there. We should start limiting his snaps so he can be more effective when he is in the game. From an athletes perspective this is not that far fetched. Then again from a stats and couch perspective, i could see where you could say that.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1293386889' post='585063']
Whats dumb about it. Ray lewis looks slow out there. We should start limiting his snaps so he can be more effective when he is in the game. From an athletes perspective this is not that far fetched. Then again from a stats and couch perspective, i could see where you could say that.
[/quote]
Itd be smart if we had other ILBs who are better than Ray, but we dont.

[The Raven]

What does everyone think of Jason Phillips? I think he could be a solid player for us. In the pre-season he looked like a tackle machine, and I loved the way he attacked the LOS. He led the team in tackles during the preseason, but that is just the pre-season. But he has a nose for the ball, and plays ferociously. His only low-point is lack of speed and coverage ability. He hits like a truck too.

[Hornfrog1]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1293897784' post='589306']
What does everyone think of Jason Phillips? I think he could be a solid player for us. In the pre-season he looked like a tackle machine, and I loved the way he attacked the LOS. He led the team in tackles during the preseason, but that is just the pre-season. But he has a nose for the ball, and plays ferociously. His only low-point is lack of speed and coverage ability. He hits like a truck too.
[/quote]
As i have said before barring an injury he will be in the NFL a long time . This kid is a leader and will get better on coverage skills as he gets more real playing time. Bottom line, he is a winner.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1293897784' post='589306']
What does everyone think of Jason Phillips? I think he could be a solid player for us. In the pre-season he looked like a tackle machine, and I loved the way he attacked the LOS. He led the team in tackles during the preseason, but that is just the pre-season. But he has a nose for the ball, and plays ferociously. His only low-point is lack of speed and coverage ability. He hits like a truck too.
[/quote]
I like his tempo and effort, he'd never be a guy with Ellerbe's "supposed" problems at practice and in the locker room. He was a smart player at TCU and has good football awareness, attacks downhill...he just really REALLY needs to improve in coverage. Thats whats holding him back.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1293911797' post='589429']
I like his tempo and effort, he'd never be a guy with Ellerbe's "supposed" problems at practice and in the locker room. He was a smart player at TCU and has good football awareness, attacks downhill...he just really REALLY needs to improve in coverage. Thats whats holding him back.
[/quote]

Exactly. With Gooden out Sunday, we may see him on Special Teams at least. He's a beast on kickoff. Remember that hit he put that Broncos returner?

[Sugar Ray]

using the different LB's where they are most efficient should be a no brainer. knowing the better coverage LB's from the pressure and more physical LB's is essential. definitely agree that the less gooden has to know the better. i am not satisfied with the second string LB's fully, but they are gaining experience and eventually will become great at what they do.