MERGED: Ellerbe, Gooden, and J.McClain

[Bltravens]

I think today epitomizes how they should be correctly used, and was enhanced by the dressing of Ellerbe. Ellerbe is far more physical, instinctual, and better tackler than the 3 which is nothing new to members of the board. Even though it was obvious he is better you can see what he does for Mattison, primarily the other LBs. Ellerbe's dressing and playing allows McClain to be used exclusively in the base defense, where Mattison can limit his responsibilities. This next thing is the big thing Ive been impressed with the last 2 weeks, is Ellerbe allows Gooden to be taken out of his usual nickel alignment as a coverage LB and lets Mattison use Gooden to attack the LOS and the QB with the different blitz packages. Gooden also made good reads when allowed to flow downhill with the game (example the screen to Bush he blew up).These last 2 weeks Gooden has gotten substantial pressure off the edge with his athleticism, he forced Brees into 2 throws aways alone this game.

I think with Ellerbe it allows another dimension for these young LBs and also allows the responsibilities to be spread around more to each players liking. I think its fairly obvious the less Gooden has to think the better he is.

Thoughts?

[theFRANCHISE]

I saw Ellerbe as a major liability in coverage, however. While he did some nice things and got good pressure in the first half, he had a lot of plays where he looked lost or played his man too soft.

[Ed_Reed20]

Great analysis Blt and I couldn't agree more. I'm keeping my fingers crossed the coaches realize all the good Ellerbe did today and what he allowed the other ILBs to do and keeps him in the game-plan the rest of season and of course, into the post-season.

[SnOoPy]

Yep! Ellerbe needs more playing time. He can only get better! Hopefully he get more snaps in the future!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1292794971' post='580838']
I saw Ellerbe as a major liability in coverage, however. While he did some nice things and got good pressure in the first half, he had a lot of plays where he looked lost or played his man too soft.
[/quote]

He was guilty on Graham's pass to the 1-yard line and gave up a pass to Bush but were there any other specific plays where he faltered?

[XxSizzleXx]

I like how Matty has been using Gooden like you said to blitz in some of the packages, he gets into the backfield fast and has great pursuit. I still would like to see McClain in the majority of the time. Use McClain in the base man and zone, Gooden blitzing off the edge and in man seems to have been working, on blitzs up the middle I want to see Ellerbe in there because he hits the Oline hard and with a purpose.

[Bltravens]

I really think the biggest thing is that it allows Gooden to not have to go through checks, and coverages, and tendancies and just lets him attack downhill and use his athleticism. Ellerbe is a far more complete player than McClain or Gooden so he can be used in a variety of situations without either giving away what we're trying to do on defense, or becoming a straight liability in coverage.

[XxSizzleXx]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1292795225' post='580849']
He was guilty on Graham's pass to the 1-yard line and gave up a pass to Bush but were there any other specific plays where he faltered?
[/quote]

I don't know if it was on the pass to Bush but I remember one play the announcer had commented that Ellerbe had looked lost on the play.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1292795225' post='580849']
He was guilty on Graham's pass to the 1-yard line and gave up a pass to Bush but were there any other specific plays where he faltered?
[/quote]
He looked like he didn't know whether he was supposed to stay underneath or stick to Henderson during the big 1st-down gain that eventually led to the tipped Moore TD; his body language indicated that he wasn't sure where he was supposed to be. Also, there was another completion to Moore where Ellerbe was supposed to contain the sideline but played Moore too soft and allowed him to make the catch; I believe it was the same pattern that Shockey would later run against JJ, and JJ had Shockey covered perfectly.

[ravensfan160]

I don't think it should be any surprise that our best defensive effort, especially against an elite QB, was with Ellerbe at LB. He was huge against the run which allowed us to sit back to stop the pass.

I felt sorta bad that it meanst Stallworth had to be inactive against his former team but a win is all that matters.

Ellerbe being active also helped keep the LB's fresh since there was another guy they could rotate in.

[theFRANCHISE]

As critical as I am of Ellerbe, I still think the team is better off keeping all three LBs active than putting Cary Williams on the field; Williams disappeared on special teams and his number was only called because of his mini-altercation with Pierson Priorleau.

[XxSizzleXx]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1292795573' post='580869']
As critical as I am of Ellerbe, [b]I still think the team is better off keeping all three LBs active than putting Cary Williams on the field;[/b] Williams disappeared on special teams and his number was only called because of his mini-altercation with Pierson Priorleau.
[/quote]

Great idea, but you know how Harbs like his special teamers.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='XxSizzleXx' timestamp='1292795485' post='580864']
I don't know if it was on the pass to Bush but I remember one play the announcer had commented that Ellerbe had looked lost on the play.
[/quote]

I vaguely remember hearing something similar.

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1292795511' post='580866']
He looked like he didn't know whether he was supposed to stay underneath or stick to Henderson during the big 1st-down gain that eventually led to the tipped Moore TD; his body language indicated that he wasn't sure where he was supposed to be. Also, there was another completion to Moore where Ellerbe was supposed to contain the sideline but played Moore too soft and allowed him to make the catch; I believe it was the same pattern that Shockey would later run against JJ, and JJ had Shockey covered perfectly.
[/quote]

Okay.

Hopefully, Henderson's big catch will be on the game highlights so I'll look at what Dannell did on that play.

I remember what the Moore catch and even though I don't remember where Ellerbe was on the play, I doubt he was culpable.

[BloodRaven]

EllerBEAST

[TSizzle00]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1292796060' post='580883']
EllerBEAST
[/quote]
lmao

[Perfekt]

i liked him alot last year but he just hasnt had the same focus an drill this year. its almost like hes riding the success that he had last year rather then improving. im not hating cuz i like him but i dont think he has performed as well this year.

[Nobi]

If we weren't looking for a LB for the future, and someone that is great right now, I would put Ayenbandejo in. Gooden is terrible. He is always out of position. I don't know he keeps getting in the game. McClain seems like much more of a steady option than either Ellerbe or Gooden. But imagine if Ray retired today. Would you be comfortable with McClain and Ellerbe taking over?

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Nobi' timestamp='1292806215' post='581227']
If we weren't looking for a LB for the future, and someone that is great right now, I would put Ayenbandejo in. Gooden is terrible. He is always out of position. I don't know he keeps getting in the game. McClain seems like much more of a steady option than either Ellerbe or Gooden. But imagine if Ray retired today. Would you be comfortable with McClain and Ellerbe taking over?
[/quote]
Ayenbandejo is grossly undersized to be a LB, he's only a couple pounds heavier than Landry.

[ravensfan2430]

More Ellerbe please.

[Guest RBates]

We have to limit Ray's snaps, he got beat all day today. He looks really slow out there. I have no idea what half of the fans on this board are watching, Ellerbe was a monster today. I feel like this, with our current crop of linebackers we are in good shape if Ray retires. Look back to the preseason game where Ray did not play i thought we looked more explosive. I really wish we can get a blow out so i can test my theory.

[Sugar Ray]

its hard for the second string LBs to get time. starting after Johnson, Lewis, and Suggs is tough. props to Gooden, McClain, and Ellerbe for bringing all they got when they come in. we definitely have a great 1st string lineup and a great 2nd string as well

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1292812722' post='581373']
We have to limit Ray's snaps, he got beat all day today. He looks really slow out there. I have no idea what half of the fans on this board are watching, Ellerbe was a monster today. I feel like this, with our current crop of linebackers we are in good shape if Ray retires. Look back to the preseason game where Ray did not play i thought we looked more explosive. I really wish we can get a blow out so i can test my theory.
[/quote]

Unbelievable.

I noticed Ray get beat a number of times too but why ignore the screens he sniffed out or other times he was in on or around the play today? I'll agree to an extent his snaps may need to be decreased on passing downs but his knowledge of game and how it helps others can't be denied.

On Graham's second TD, Ray was doing his job and was supposed to cover the FB but Nakamura bit hard on the play-fake and left Graham wide open.

I liked what I saw from Ellerbe today too but as Franny brought up, he wasn't without fault either. The young LB trio are talented but this team still needs a stud Mike ILB in my opinion.

And please don't bring up the last pre-season. Explosive? Bradford and the Rams offense may have put up 40 had he not left after the first few series.

You really want the Ravens to blown out? Wow...

[JohnnyBoy8102]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1292813479' post='581387']
Unbelievable.

I noticed Ray get beat a number of times too but why ignore the screens and other times he was in on or around the play today. I'll agree to an extent his snaps may need to be decreased on passing downs but his knowledge of game and how it helps others can't be denied.

On Graham's second TD, Ray was doing his job and was supposed to cover the FB but Nakamura bit hard on the play-fake and left Graham wide open.

I liked what I saw from Ellerbe today too but as Franny brought up, he wasn't without fault today either. The young LB trio are talented but this team still needs a Mike ILB in my opinion.

And please don't bring up the last pre-season. Explosive? Bradford and the Rams offense may have put up 40 had he not left after the first few series.

You really want the Ravens to blown out? Wow...
[/quote]

I agree

The thing is besides that Reggie Bush play where Ray was split out wide covering him...which play did he get beat on?

There was a play or two where Brees threw it down the middle of the field and Ray jumped in an attempt to deflect the ball when it was completed deeper to a WR. Those aren't his "mess ups". I don't recall Ray covering Shockey or their other TE much one on one?

Correct me if I am wrong.

[JohnnyBoy8102]

For example, some fans would blame Ray for this 1st completion to Colston when it isn't his fault:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81d066be/Brees-20th-all-time-in-pass-attempts

Or this play here. Yes, it is in the middle of the field but Ray blitzes on this play:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d81d098b6/QB-Brees-to-WR-Henderson-26-yd-pass

Here is the last INT by Redding. Look at how Ray picks up the RB out of the backfield eliminating that option from Brees.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81d06e50/Cory-Redding-4th-quarter-INT

The Saints backs and TE combined for 5.7 yards per catch. I can live with that I guess.

However, I don't want Ray covering anyone like Reggie Bush split wide anymore. He can make players in their primes look bad. He made Patrick Willis look really bad in Week 2.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81ab4626/Brees-to-Bush-6-yard-TD

[Bltravens]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1292812722' post='581373']
We have to limit Ray's snaps, he got beat all day today. He looks really slow out there. I have no idea what half of the fans on this board are watching, Ellerbe was a monster today. I feel like this, with our current crop of linebackers we are in good shape if Ray retires. Look back to the preseason game where Ray did not play i thought we looked more explosive. I really wish we can get a blow out so i can test my theory.
[/quote]
So we can have the stupidest combo of MLBs in the league? Gooden has never had high football IQ, McClain is still learning the position and is not good attacking the LOS or in coverage, and Ellerbe is far from the answer inside. I wont even get into this as ER20 covered most of it, but Lewis didnt give up a TD today, and Lewis rarely gives up big completions in his zone or to his man. Hell he made a play on a screen when he was blitzing, peeled off and helped Gooden make the tackle after Gooden slipped.

Lewis isnt what he used to be but he's far better than anything we have, our current crop of LBs is definitely not in good shape.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='JohnnyBoy8102' timestamp='1292815713' post='581436']
However, I don't want Ray covering anyone like Reggie Bush split wide anymore. He can make players in their primes look bad. He made Patrick Willis look really bad in Week 2.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81ab4626/Brees-to-Bush-6-yard-TD
[/quote]

Agreed. Ray can use good footwork and some light tugs to keep with certain TEs but he shouldn't be in man coverage against RBs split out wide.

[JohnnyBoy8102]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1292816024' post='581447']
So we can have the stupidest combo of MLBs in the league? Gooden has never had high football IQ, McClain is still learning the position and is not good attacking the LOS or in coverage, and Ellerbe is far from the answer inside. I wont even get into this as ER20 covered most of it, but Lewis didnt give up a TD today, [b]and Lewis rarely gives up big completions in his zone or to his man[/b]. Hell he made a play on a screen when he was blitzing, peeled off and helped Gooden make the tackle after Gooden slipped.

Lewis isnt what he used to be but he's far better than anything we have, our current crop of LBs is definitely not in good shape.
[/quote]

This. Ray hasn't gotten beat for a huge play or TD all season in coverage. I will let other teams complete balls to TE and Backs for 5 yards a pop because you know Ray is a sure tackler.

It appears that most of the time Ray is in zone coverage anyway. So it seems that it is designed for him to keep everything in front of him and make tackles.

[flynismo]

Ellerbe has his moments, but he has yet to show me that he is the long term solution. That said, he is > than McClain, BA and Jason Philips combined. Which still really isn't saying much.

[flynismo]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1292812722' post='581373']<br />We have to limit Ray's snaps, he got beat all day today. He looks really slow out there. I have no idea what half of the fans on this board are watching, Ellerbe was a monster today.  I feel like this, with our current crop of linebackers we are in good shape if Ray retires.  Look back to the preseason game where Ray did not play i thought we looked more explosive.  I really wish we can get a blow out so i can test my theory.<br />[/quote]


This is dumb on so many different levels, that I don't even know where to start.

But yes, Ellerbe looked good today.

[omar586]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1292795511' post='580866']
He looked like he didn't know whether he was supposed to stay underneath or stick to Henderson during the big 1st-down gain that eventually led to the tipped Moore TD; his body language indicated that he wasn't sure where he was supposed to be. Also, there was another completion to Moore where Ellerbe was supposed to contain the sideline but played Moore too soft and allowed him to make the catch; I believe it was the same pattern that Shockey would later run against JJ, and JJ had Shockey covered perfectly.
[/quote]
that happens when u have not played in a month