Some Perspective

[scrock]

Remember the days of Chris Redman, Elvis Grbac, Jeff Blake, Anthony Wright, Kyle Boller? Pretty much the days when the Ravens didn't have a quarterback and lacked consistency from game to game, year to year.

Maybe one year we made the playoffs and the next we went 4-12, yes, the dominant defense was there but no offense to do anything about it.

I'd much rather be here with Joe Flacco as my quarterback, heading to the playoffs for the 3rd straight year. Whatever happens this season I am glad to be at this point in time....the team in it's 3rd year with their young franchise QB.

No more inconsistency like when we didn't have one, usually the teams with good QB play are consistently the ones making the playoffs every year. That is us now, as long as we continue to take care of business in the offseason. I believe Ozzie has that taken care of quite well.

[Ed_Reed20]

Good post.

You look around the league and teams that have stability at QB are the ones in the hunt. Since the Ravens drafted Flacco, they've gone through more transition than people care to note but that they've been to the play-offs the first two seasons and are poised to do so again this season speaks to the organization's hard work.

Even with all the seemingly major questions across the team right now, I firmly believe the Ravens have a bright future as long as key players, mainly Flacco continue to develop.

[bdravens]

People seem to overlook that. When you make the playoffs two years in a row with a young QB, it almost spoils us, and makes us expect to make it. As ER20 said, we have quite a few young guys that will hopefully will match their potential. I don't believe any team/QB combo that have made it to the playoffs in the first 3 years of the QB's career. No one should write this team off, we win close games and that's what it comes down to in the playoffs.

[theFRANCHISE]

While much of the criticism I've read of Flacco is valid, there's also been a slight measure of over-analysis or unrealistic expectations as to Flacco's development in his third year from some people. These are the same people that forget that Baltimore hadn't had a good QB since Vinny Testaverde, and before that, Bert Jones and Johnny Unitas. For such obvious reasons, these are the people that don't know what it's like to watch a QB develop.

Ask any fan of any other team that's watched a QB develop and they'll be able to relate to you the same growing pains we're seeing now. It's not all roses, and development doesn't happen overnight.

Peyton Manning didn't really become Superman until his 5th or 6th year, when he was already established and finally showing consistency. He wouldn't hit his prime until years later. Tom Brady was not in that elite tier of QBs until roughly his 5th or 6th year as well, when he had already racked up multiple Super Bowls and had played with a rag-tag crop of receivers. Drew Brees didn't come into his own until the tail end of his time in San Diego and when he moved to New Orleans and had a better grasp of his position.

[AlaskanRavensFan]

I don't know if many of the fans on the boards are new fans or if they just are unable to remember the last 10 years of Ravens football. I know that we've had a good defense for the last 12 years (except 07 and 02) but we tend to have unreal expectations of our defense as well. For example, when we had awesome defenses in 2000 and 2006 we only played 3 playoff teams in both years respectively. This year we will have played 6 (assuming Jets and Saints make it). As it stands right now we are 4th in scoring defense (arguably the most important defensive stat) and are on pace to allow 281 points. That's not elite, but it's possible that we hold the browns and bengals to less than our avg. and therefore bring the total points allowed down.

My point though is that despite what our eyes and hearts tell us, the numbers and history often tell a different story. Also, had it occurred to anyone that we've never lost so many 4th quarter leads because we weren't leading in nearly as many games as we were this year. In previous years there were some games that we out of by halftime. examples ( vs Indy and Giants in 08; vs Pitts, Cincy, SD, Indy, Seattle in 07; vs Indy, Tenn, Cincy, Jax, Detriot in 05)

If I'm not mistaken, we led in every game we played, which is saying something. It's not saying that we're awesome but it says that we can play with anyone, and that's definitely a shot to do something in the post-season.

[ravens_4life]

people tend to forget that the league has changed over they years. meaning the rules of the game. stupid flags for stupid calls. you cant even touch brady without a pass interference being called. if these rules would have applied 10 years ago no team would have been elite. offense is the baby of the nfl.

[scrock]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1292634292' post='578590']
While much of the criticism I've read of Flacco is valid, there's also been a slight measure of over-analysis or unrealistic expectations as to Flacco's development in his third year from some people. These are the same people that forget that Baltimore hadn't had a good QB since Vinny Testaverde, and before that, Bert Jones and Johnny Unitas. For such obvious reasons, these are the people that don't know what it's like to watch a QB develop.

Ask any fan of any other team that's watched a QB develop and they'll be able to relate to you the same growing pains we're seeing now. It's not all roses, and development doesn't happen overnight.

[b]Peyton Manning didn't really become Superman until his 5th or 6th year, when he was already established and finally showing consistency. He wouldn't hit his prime until years later. Tom Brady was not in that elite tier of QBs until roughly his 5th or 6th year as well, when he had already racked up multiple Super Bowls and had played with a rag-tag crop of receivers. Drew Brees didn't come into his own until the tail end of his time in San Diego and when he moved to New Orleans and had a better grasp of his position.[/b]
[/quote]

That's a good point, especially in the case of Drew Brees. He hadn't been performing to the level they expected out of him so they draft Eli Manning but Manning demanded a trade to NY so they did and Rivers was in San Diego. Only in his last year in San Deigo did Brees finally put it together and have a good year. Then once he got with Sean Payton in New Orleans he really started to take off...I don't have any problems with Joe's development, sure I'd like him to get rid of the ball sooner on some plays and know where all the pressure is coming but he has improved every year and he has taken another step this year. He will end the season with career highs in almost every category...not to mention all the Ravens passing records he has already broken.

[ravens_4life]

put mr. brady in superbowl xx against the bears were you got clobbered. matter of fact put brady in the 80's period and all brady would be is just another quarterback. hell if you put montana in todays league he would probably doulble is stats. those qb's did what they did when you could play football for real. these qb's today do it the cry baby way. oh my god he touched my arm throw the flag ref and count the touch down.

[scrock]

[quote name='ravens_4life' timestamp='1292641175' post='578626']
put mr. brady in superbowl xx against the bears were you got clobbered. matter of fact put brady in the 80's period and all brady would be is just another quarterback. hell if you put montana in todays league he would probably doulble is stats. those qb's did what they did when you could play football for real. these qb's today do it the cry baby way. oh my god he touched my arm throw the flag ref and count the touch down.
[/quote]

We all know the league has changed, the biggest rule change that applies to passing statistics is no touching the WRs after 5 yards, at least thats what previous players have said. Who cares though, nothing we can do about that.

[ravens_4life]

i remember seeing highlights of the 70's steelers defense and the 85 bears defense. those guys hammered the recievers and clobbered the quarterback.

[Ravensdiciple96]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1292631744' post='578570']
Remember the days of Chris Redman, Elvis Grbac, Jeff Blake, Anthony Wright, Kyle Boller? Pretty much the days when the Ravens didn't have a quarterback and lacked consistency from game to game, year to year.

Maybe one year we made the playoffs and the next we went 4-12, yes, the dominant defense was there but no offense to do anything about it.

I'd much rather be here with Joe Flacco as my quarterback, heading to the playoffs for the 3rd straight year. Whatever happens this season I am glad to be at this point in time....the team in it's 3rd year with their young franchise QB.

No more inconsistency like when we didn't have one, usually the teams with good QB play are consistently the ones making the playoffs every year. That is us now, as long as we continue to take care of business in the offseason. I believe Ozzie has that taken care of quite well.[/quote]

"Heading to the playoffs for a third straight year"?? You act like it's a lock, first wait and see if they even make it. And if they do make it, and happen to not go one and done then get back on your soap box!!

[scrock]

[quote name='Ravensdiciple96' timestamp='1292656908' post='578702']
You act like it's a lock, first wait and see if they even make it. And if they do make it, and happen to not go one and done then get back on your soap box!!
[/quote]

It pretty much is a lock....and who said anything about going deep into the playoffs? See thats you getting greedy...my post was about not being stuck up about the situation and realizing where we came from and where we are now.

get off my soapbox? I'm speaking the truth not preaching to anyone...

You sound like a Ravens hater.

[reediddy]

OP is right, we have to be elated with the fact that we have a franchise QB. Look at the turmoil ensuing in Washington. They thought they brought in a QB who would be the face of the franchise for the next x amount of years but unfortunately he hasn't played up to par and now he's being benched in favor of Rex Grossman. Teams with great QB's will ultimately succeed in this league and we can't help but be happy we have Flacco.

In terms of our defense, to be honest, I think Ozzie's prowess in drafting will get our defense back up to a high level. Eventually we will find a successor to Ray Lewis, whether it be through the draft or free agency. Our offense, thankfully, has the potential to be great. In hindsight it's unrealistic for us fans to think that this offense will click on all cylinders in the first year, so for the next 4-5 years we will develop into an elite offense.

[Rav'n Maniac]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1292634292' post='578590']
While much of the criticism I've read of Flacco is valid, there's also been a slight measure of over-analysis or unrealistic expectations as to Flacco's development in his third year from some people. These are the same people that forget that Baltimore hadn't had a good QB since Vinny Testaverde, and before that, Bert Jones and Johnny Unitas. For such obvious reasons, these are the people that don't know what it's like to watch a QB develop.

Ask any fan of any other team that's watched a QB develop and they'll be able to relate to you the same growing pains we're seeing now. It's not all roses, and development doesn't happen overnight.

Peyton Manning didn't really become Superman until his 5th or 6th year, when he was already established and finally showing consistency. He wouldn't hit his prime until years later. Tom Brady was not in that elite tier of QBs until roughly his 5th or 6th year as well, when he had already racked up multiple Super Bowls and had played with a rag-tag crop of receivers. Drew Brees didn't come into his own until the tail end of his time in San Diego and when he moved to New Orleans and had a better grasp of his position.
[/quote]
Well said! And if I may add, there are some that may have forgotten or may be too young to remember, what it was like to not have football in this town.

[baltravens]

For all that criticize Joe Flacco his quarterback rating is 94.0! He is 8th in the league, and people like Romo who won't play the rest of the year are ahead of him. Who is behind him in the rating system? Quarterbacks like Brees, Peyton Manning, and Matt Ryan. Flacco has 21 touchdowns and 8 interceptions with a 63% completion percentage.
I am ecstatic!
You really should be happy considering the signal callers we have had in the past. You know, the ones leading the Ravens where we had no future to speak of. ...It looks like the playoffs 3 years in a row which reflects positively on Harbs, too.

[757RavensFan]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1292631744' post='578570']
Remember the days of Chris Redman, Elvis Grbac, Jeff Blake, Anthony Wright, Kyle Boller? Pretty much the days when the Ravens didn't have a quarterback and lacked consistency from game to game, year to year.

Maybe one year we made the playoffs and the next we went 4-12, yes, the dominant defense was there but no offense to do anything about it.

I'd much rather be here with Joe Flacco as my quarterback, heading to the playoffs for the 3rd straight year. Whatever happens this season I am glad to be at this point in time....the team in it's 3rd year with their young franchise QB.

No more inconsistency like when we didn't have one, usually the teams with good QB play are consistently the ones making the playoffs every year. That is us now, as long as we continue to take care of business in the offseason. I believe Ozzie has that taken care of quite well.
[/quote]

Good post! When you revisit the timeline of events during the 2008 training camp that propelled Joe from 3rd string to starter, you have to think that the football gods were looking out for us. LOL

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Ravensdiciple96' timestamp='1292656908' post='578702']
"Heading to the playoffs for a third straight year"?? You act like it's a lock, first wait and see if they even make it. And if they do make it, and happen to not go one and done then get back on your soap box!!
[/quote]
Simmer down now.....we are headed to the playoffs, barring a huge meltdown. AND there is no preaching here, just an open statement.

[Ravens549]

I'm puzzled to why everyone is placing so much on Flacco's back.
I'm more concerned about our defense and offensive line.

Flacco is doing fine and I think he is actually on the very bottom of our list of problems.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='Ravensdiciple96' timestamp='1292656908' post='578702']
"Heading to the playoffs for a third straight year"?? You act like it's a lock, first wait and see if they even make it. And if they do make it, and happen to not go one and done then get back on your soap box!!
[/quote]
According to MakeNFLPlayoffs.com, the Ravens have a 96% chance of making the playoffs if they win one more game and go 10-6. They have a 100% chance of making it if they win 2 more games to go 11-5, or win out to go 12-4. Overall, with all scenarios considered, the Ravens have a calculated 90% chance of making the playoffs, period. ([url="http://makenflplayoffs.com/"]LINK[/url])

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

[quote name='Ravens549' timestamp='1292685588' post='578767']
I'm puzzled to why everyone is placing so much on Flacco's back.
I'm more concerned about our defense and offensive line.

Flacco is doing fine and I think he is actually on the very bottom of our list of problems.
[/quote]
I agree, we will only go as far as the men in the trenches let us. I think thats where the most available players should be on the 45 man list. I want to see more unbalanced line when we run, and 2 backs for Joe's protection when throwing.

[Ravens Lover]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1292631744' post='578570']
Remember the days of Chris Redman, Elvis Grbac, Jeff Blake, Anthony Wright, Kyle Boller? Pretty much the days when the Ravens didn't have a quarterback and lacked consistency from game to game, year to year.

Maybe one year we made the playoffs and the next we went 4-12, yes, the dominant defense was there but no offense to do anything about it.

I'd much rather be here with Joe Flacco as my quarterback, heading to the playoffs for the 3rd straight year. Whatever happens this season I am glad to be at this point in time....the team in it's 3rd year with their young franchise QB.

No more inconsistency like when we didn't have one, usually the teams with good QB play are consistently the ones making the playoffs every year. That is us now, as long as we continue to take care of business in the offseason. I believe Ozzie has that taken care of quite well.
[/quote]

would love less down to the wire games like this where one play could determine the winner or loser but exactly compared to what we used to have at offence I'll take this Ravens team anyday

[Ravensdiciple96]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1292657231' post='578705']
It pretty much is a lock....and who said anything about going deep into the playoffs? See thats you getting greedy...my post was about not being stuck up about the situation and realizing where we came from and where we are now.

get off my soapbox? I'm speaking the truth not preaching to anyone...

You sound like a Ravens hater.
[/quote]

Yes you got me I'm a Ravens hater! Get real man, sorry I don't tippy toe around here and say everything every body wants to hear 24/7. Getting greedy about going deep in the playoffs is now considered a bad thing huh? So you are happy with making it to the AFC championship and going home, then going to the second round for us last year and getting bounced, that is what we should strive for right? That's what you're saying? Face it the run game sucks, because there is really no O-line to help out consistently. Pass protection has been mediocre all season, which explains why this potent passing offense hasn't put up gawdy numbers all year. You can call it what you want for all your buddies that want to act like everything is just great, but sorry man I try to look with out the blinders on! Call it what you want, but I could care less how much you or any one else on here wants to sugar coat everything and act like it's all peachy! Don't worry I'll be back to ask you how you liked how the playoffs went once they get bounced out again, because I'm "thinking to greedy" lmao!!

[Ravensdiciple96]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1292685316' post='578762']
Simmer down now.....we are headed to the playoffs, barring a huge meltdown. AND there is no preaching here, just an open statement.
[/quote]

Hey look man, can you honestly look at the way the Rvaens have been playing and say that you are happy? With out seeing their 9-4 record that is. I mean after last Mondays melt down of our defense, our Ravens are SO LUCKY to have got out there with that win. Even seeing Ed Reeds comments about how much the defense has blown, but they still come away with the win comment. I mean in all aspects yes wins are all that matters, but do we now have to hope that we can get a 21 point lead for the rest of the season to "hope" our defense can protect it to get a win? I mean come on, to see the talent this team has, specially on offense and to not be able to work for four quarters every game at least on offense and put up points all game, that is crazy. After this season when do you think as Raven fans we will ever see this kind of talent all at the same time on offense? We probably wont for a LONG time if ever, and to just see it get wasted is just heart wrenching! Yeah yeah yeah we are 9-4 but man can you feel my pain?? Do you feel where I'm coming from? And do you think they can get it clicking on all cylinders starting this Sunday untill hopefully Dallas??

[Ravensdiciple96]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1292688033' post='578791']
According to MakeNFLPlayoffs.com, the Ravens have a 96% chance of making the playoffs if they win one more game and go 10-6. They have a 100% chance of making it if they win 2 more games to go 11-5, or win out to go 12-4. Overall, with all scenarios considered, the Ravens have a calculated 90% chance of making the playoffs, period. ([url="http://makenflplayoffs.com/"]LINK[/url])
[/quote]

Yeah that's all fine and dandy with all the calculations and all, but hey what else to look forward to yet again but another playoff season on the road the entire time! So what third time in a row is the charm huh?? Sorry but I pay good money for my tickets and I for one would LOVE to see a HOME playoff game, period!

EDIT: And please save the well we could land the AFC championship game at home with key playoff losses. You should get where I'm coming from with out nit picking a post!

[im always drunk]

[quote name='Ravensdiciple96' timestamp='1292741945' post='579210']
Hey look man, can you honestly look at the way the Rvaens have been playing and say that you are happy? With out seeing their 9-4 record that is. I mean after last Mondays melt down of our defense, our Ravens are SO LUCKY to have got out there with that win. Even seeing Ed Reeds comments about how much the defense has blown, but they still come away with the win comment. I mean in all aspects yes wins are all that matters, but do we now have to hope that we can get a 21 point lead for the rest of the season to "hope" our defense can protect it to get a win? I mean come on, to see the talent this team has, specially on offense and to not be able to work for four quarters every game at least on offense and put up points all game, that is crazy. After this season when do you think as Raven fans we will ever see this kind of talent all at the same time on offense? We probably wont for a LONG time if ever, and to just see it get wasted is just heart wrenching! Yeah yeah yeah we are 9-4 but man can you feel my pain?? Do you feel where I'm coming from? And do you think they can get it clicking on all cylinders starting this Sunday untill hopefully Dallas??
[/quote]


I could honestly say that I'm happy. I really enjoy football, I like a good game and thats what ravens have been in every week. Now, don't get me wrong, I would love us to stomp every team we come across and have this super special rainbow time w/o question on our way to a trophy, but honestly this is entertainment. Beyond entertainment, when the haters come to speak they often say very uninformed emotional things...I'm especially glad that the owners/coaches/players don't act like some of the "fans" on this board; we'd be like the redskins or browns, always firing people emotionally and causing drama.

Obviously we aren't playing the way that we could be every week, but things are changing. Have you not noticed how crazy of a year this has been in the NFL? Usually this week on sportcenter they are asking whether or not certain teams should sit out their starters this sunday because they all ready have the playoffs on lock, its not that way. Sit back and enjoy, things aren't so bad.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='Ravensdiciple96' timestamp='1292742236' post='579212']
Yeah that's all fine and dandy with all the calculations and all, but hey what else to look forward to yet again but another playoff season on the road the entire time! So what third time in a row is the charm huh?? Sorry but I pay good money for my tickets and I for one would LOVE to see a HOME playoff game, period!

EDIT: And please save the well we could land the AFC championship game at home with key playoff losses. You should get where I'm coming from with out nit picking a post!
[/quote]
Though I understand why you would want a home playoff game, not all of us have that luxury of going to games.

That luxury aside, you can't honestly say you'd much rather see a Ravens home playoff game and have them fall short of the Super Bowl, than to have them go on the road for every game and WIN the championship.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Ravensdiciple96' timestamp='1292741945' post='579210']
Hey look man, can you honestly look at the way the Rvaens have been playing and say that you are happy? With out seeing their 9-4 record that is. I mean after last Mondays melt down of our defense, our Ravens are SO LUCKY to have got out there with that win. Even seeing Ed Reeds comments about how much the defense has blown, but they still come away with the win comment. I mean in all aspects yes wins are all that matters, but do we now have to hope that we can get a 21 point lead for the rest of the season to "hope" our defense can protect it to get a win? I mean come on, to see the talent this team has, specially on offense and to not be able to work for four quarters every game at least on offense and put up points all game, that is crazy. After this season when do you think as Raven fans we will ever see this kind of talent all at the same time on offense? We probably wont for a LONG time if ever, and to just see it get wasted is just heart wrenching! Yeah yeah yeah we are 9-4 but man can you feel my pain?? Do you feel where I'm coming from? And do you think they can get it clicking on all cylinders starting this Sunday untill hopefully Dallas??
[/quote]
Every team has their issues every year (even the 2007 Pats lost to the "caught fire"Giants). Hell, this year the Pats got bounced by Cleveland, the Saints lost to Cleveland and Arizona (while also almost losing to Carolina and and San Fran) and there are countless other scenarios.

I am not 100% happy with the Ravens play this year - the oline is suspect, effecting the run game, the offensive play calling is hit or miss and the QB pressure is inconsistent as well. BUT, I believe they will make the playoffs and then its a whole new season.

Get to the show and then all previous records mean squat!

[bdravens]

[quote name='Ravensdiciple96' timestamp='1292741945' post='579210']
Hey look man, can you honestly look at the way the Rvaens have been playing and say that you are happy? With out seeing their 9-4 record that is. I mean after last Mondays melt down of our defense, our Ravens are SO LUCKY to have got out there with that win. Even seeing Ed Reeds comments about how much the defense has blown, but they still come away with the win comment. I mean in all aspects yes wins are all that matters, but do we now have to hope that we can get a 21 point lead for the rest of the season to "hope" our defense can protect it to get a win? I mean come on, to see the talent this team has, specially on offense and to not be able to work for four quarters every game at least on offense and put up points all game, that is crazy. After this season when do you think as Raven fans we will ever see this kind of talent all at the same time on offense? We probably wont for a LONG time if ever, and to just see it get wasted is just heart wrenching! Yeah yeah yeah we are 9-4 but man can you feel my pain?? Do you feel where I'm coming from? And do you think they can get it clicking on all cylinders starting this Sunday untill hopefully Dallas??
[/quote]
I don't care about 21 point leads, or any of that. Yeah, I get unhappy during games, but if we get the W, I'm happy, and we have 9 of those so far. Once you get to the playoffs, as long as we get a W, I could care less about stats.

[Tiznut]

[quote name='Ravens Lover' timestamp='1292688998' post='578804']
would love less down to the wire games like this where one play could determine the winner or loser but exactly compared to what we used to have at offence I'll take this Ravens team anyday
[/quote]

The close games are not all on flacco.
To me this is the first time I've never been panicked about a game if it comes down to the offense driving late in games. Despite the pittsburgh thing joe has actually played well in the clutch to give the defense leads late in games

[baltravens]

[quote name='Ravensdiciple96' timestamp='1292656908' post='578702']
"Heading to the playoffs for a third straight year"?? You act like it's a lock, first wait and see if they even make it. And if they do make it, and happen to not go one and done then get back on your soap box!!
[/quote]
Not from me, but a quote from the experts: "Playoffs shouldn't be an issue [for the Ravens] with games against teams that have combined for just eight wins, and a head-to-head tie-breaker over the sixth-seeded Jets."