Ed Reed

[PuRock]

This thread is kinda funny. Because before we had Ed Reed come back. All the threads were like "Just wait till we get Ed Reed Back - Everything will be different". "The Steelers complain that they didn't have Big Ben the first game, we'll we didn't have Ed Reed."

And now we are here, asking if Ed Reed is overrated. We did this last year as well also.

The guy is still my favorite player. He has the ability to go out against the Saints and pick off two passes then die off the next game. It's Ed Reed.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='ravenanchors' timestamp='1292364128' post='575547']
Reed has had a lot of bad games this year.
He is not helping the team with the way he plays.
The statement that with Ed it is either Feast or Famine, well lets just say we are starving to death.

Ed is too old to be effective playing the way he did when he was young. He is not fast enough anymore.


He had a great run but the Ravens need new blood. Hang his jersey in the stadium and retire his number.
[/quote]

SO SO Wrong. Reed makes an impact everytime he steps on the field. QBs know where he is at all times. Sure, he made a bad read and got burned. It wasn't #20 that almost lost us that game.

Also 4 picks in 9 games, not bad

[redlobster]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1292364814' post='575571']
SO SO Wrong. Reed makes an impact everytime he steps on the field. QBs know where he is at all times. Sure, he made a bad read and got burned. It wasn't #20 that almost lost us that game.

Also 4 picks in 9 games, not bad
[/quote]

I might be inclined to agree with you but for different reasons, it appeared yesterday that Schaub made sure he knew exactly where Reed was on the field and attacked that zone. He looked downright slow, old, and out of place yesterday.

While 4 int's are good for 9 games, they came off of Buffalo, Carolina, and Miami , not exactly teams with stellar Qb's. I'm as big a fan of the Raven's as anybody but I am also not jaded by believing that a hall of famer is still playing at a hall of fame level this year.

On a side note, was it just me or did Ray Lewis seem to disappear last night? I saw him get stuffed when blitzing and caught up in the wash a lot.

Also , I won't call him overrated as well, maybe his return was over hyped.

[scrock]

[quote name='reediddy' timestamp='1292322052' post='574398']
I know I might get some flak for creating such a thread but after watching today's performance and all the big plays we gave up in the passing game I think it's worth pondering. Ed is clearly not Ed back there against the elite passing games.

Do you think it might be because he is still recovering from his injury? Possible.

Is it possible he is a little overrated? I don't really think so because his results speak for themselves, but he's a gambler in the secondary, and these are educated gambles because he studies film so much and understands the tendencies of the opposing QB's and WR's. However, sometimes he overpursues, or plays the wrong coverage completely, and that jeopardizes our deep coverage and allows for teams to get the big play through the air against us. Of course, in the end I think our passing game is better with him, but he makes his share of bad plays, which shouldn't happen.

Or do you think neither apply? I would lean more here because I think his greatness directly a result of pressure and forcing the QB into making the bad throw. When the bad throw is made, dude is a ballhawk and will be right there for the pick.

Hoping for this to turn into a healthy discussion and not result in me getting super-neg'd.
[/quote]


It's obvious Ed isn't back to his normal self...it probably wont be until next year that he is 100%

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1292367307' post='575644']
It's obvious Ed isn't back to his normal self...it probably wont be until next year that he is 100%
[/quote]

Assuming he comes back.

[reediddy]

[quote name='redlobster' timestamp='1292366136' post='575611']
I might be inclined to agree with you but for different reasons, it appeared yesterday that Schaub made sure he knew exactly where Reed was on the field and attacked that zone. He looked downright slow, old, and out of place yesterday.

While 4 int's are good for 9 games, they came off of Buffalo, Carolina, and Miami , not exactly teams with stellar Qb's. I'm as big a fan of the Raven's as anybody but I am also not jaded by believing that a hall of famer is still playing at a hall of fame level this year.

On a side note, was it just me or did Ray Lewis seem to disappear last night? I saw him get stuffed when blitzing and caught up in the wash a lot.

Also , I won't call him overrated as well, maybe his return was over hyped.
[/quote]

That's what I mean. I don't want fans to focus on his INTs which came against inferior competition. In the big games, he has not made the big plays you expect, and that drove me to create this thread. Is it because he's injured, a tad overrated or is it something else like the pass rush? I agree that he was probably a little overhyped coming in because coming back from his injury takes a lot of time. He looked out of sorts whenever the camera focused on him yesterday.

To respond to your side note: Vonta Leach made a case for himself for the Pro Bowl, as he was completely stonewalling Ray Lewis all night. Case closed.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='AZravensfan' timestamp='1292323812' post='574409']
I am voting neither. As far as im concerned we play prevent defense(conservative offense) way too early in games. Seemed like at the end of the second quarter with a 21-0 lead we started the whole conservative/prevent defense. That is not the fault of anyone in our secondary but when you give a QB as much time as shaub had then your going to give up a ton of yardage.

He is definitely not overrated. I don't think he is still injured either.
[/quote]
I couldn't agree more. Mattison hung our defensive backs out to dry that entire half' whilst exhausting pass rushers who were overmatched and outnumbered against a good opposing offensive line.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

I don't think he is injured or overrated however. He did make some fundamental errors which he usually doesn't, but you know how well he prepares, he'll be back strong.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='reediddy' timestamp='1292386379' post='576007']
That's what I mean. I don't want fans to focus on his INTs which came against inferior competition. In the big games, he has not made the big plays you expect, and that drove me to create this thread. Is it because he's injured, a tad overrated or is it something else like the pass rush? I agree that he was probably a little overhyped coming in because coming back from his injury takes a lot of time. He looked out of sorts whenever the camera focused on him yesterday.

To respond to your side note: Vonta Leach made a case for himself for the Pro Bowl, as he was completely stonewalling Ray Lewis all night. Case closed.
[/quote]

Fans my overrate him but anyone whose watched him play this year knows the burst hasn't been there and that was obvious last night. He made a nice play to break up a pass last night but he might have intercepted it a few years ago.

I wasn't surprised to see Leach rock Ray a number of times. Sadly, it's happened a lot more this season.

[bauer77]

[quote name='TXRaven' timestamp='1292326416' post='574422']
Your kidding right. It was not Reeds best game but Ed Reed will gamble, We know this. He wins more times than not but last night he lost and Johnson beat him over the top. He bit on Shaub running assuming he pulled the ball down. Give shaub credit for keeping the play alive and finding Johnson.
[/quote]


you beat me to it. Both Reed and Wilson bit on Schaub running on that play and thought he was gonna scramble for some big yards. that left Johnson wide open and Schaub just dropped it in there.

i voted for neither.

[Ed_Reed20]

For those who don't think Ed is still hurt, I was listening to the radio earlier tonight and during an interview with 105.7 The Fan, Ed said that his hip was "reconstructed". His hip may have healed to the point he could play football but with how slow he's looked turning and running and the numerous times he's either gotten up off the field slowly this season, I think it's pretty obvious the man is playing in some pain.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1292398387' post='576126']
For those who don't think Ed is still hurt, I was listening to the radio earlier tonight and during an interview with 105.7 The Fan, Ed said that his hip was "reconstructed". His hip may have healed to the point he could play football but with how slow he's looked turning and running and the numerous times he's either gotten up off the field slowly this season, I think it's pretty obvious the man is playing in some pain.
[/quote]
Yet another great defensive player we had on our team who's career will be cut short due to the sheer amount of time he spent on the field. Peter Boulware, Duane Starks, Gary Baxter, Ed Reed, Kim Herring, Ray Lewis...all off the top of my head has had some type of major surgery in relation to beyond what normal wear and tear is on a defensive player. Polamalu would be using canes right now if he had played in Baltimore his entire career. And even now, with one of the best offenses we've ever assembled...we still cant stop leaning on the defense, even when our impact players are beyond veterans and have had major surgeries.

Do the defense a favor they've deserved since 2000 offense, and put the game on your shoulders for a couple consecutive weeks and give the defense a break...I dont know how much blood, sweat, and tears guys like Ray, Ed, and Suggs have left.

[JohnnyBoy8102]

Yes, Ed made a few mistakes on Monday just like every one else on the Ravens did.

I think because I watch the 30 minute condensed version of most of the other games on the NFL sunday ticket shortcut package that I don't jump to conclusions from 1 game or 2.

Troy Polamalu had a 4-5 game span in the middle of this season where he was playing horribly in coverage. James Harrison had ZERO tackles last game. Patrick Willis has been quiet the last 3 games. None of these players stink but even great players have an off day sometimes.

My point is that the D played great for the 5 games before this Texans game. The Ravens played one bad half of Defense vs. the #1 rusher in the NFL, arguably the best WR, in a dome, on turf, with a 3 man rush and prevent coverage and suddenly Ed is awful/JJ should be cut/Ray Lewis stinks, etc............

The Ravens D is still #4 in points against (the most important stat) AND actually made the play to win the game.

[Radinho84]

ed is one of the biggest gambler who ever played the game. he wanted to crush the qb and forgot about his coverage duty. but when he gets his interceptions he is allways not there on the field where he should be and just reads the qb perfectly. he gives up some big plays due to his gambling style of playing football but he much more is a great momentum changer and still the very best fs in the nfl. by far.

[SidRavens]

[quote name='Radinho84' timestamp='1292403842' post='576146']
ed is one of the biggest gambler who ever played the game. he wanted to crush the qb and forgot about his coverage duty. but when he gets his interceptions he is allways not there on the field where he should be and just reads the qb perfectly. he gives up some big plays due to his gambling style of playing football but he much more is a great momentum changer and still the very best fs in the nfl. by far.
[/quote]


I actually gotta agree. He takes pretty big gambles with his play style. And it *usually* pays off for him... I don't think he's a bit slower, but still has the moxy to keep it going.

[SuRihtanil]

I just don't think we're in the QBs face enough... We get sacks but everyone gets sacks we need to break that offensive line down completely like we use to because that really caused panic and pressure which forces the QB to have BIG EYES and throw the ball out THATS when Ed Reed works his magic and gets pick 6's. I believe its why we had tons in the box vs texans and a 3 man rush because we just can't apply the pressure like we use to we need a good DT bull rusher. I think the only decent D line player we have starting is Ngata if it wasn't for him and Suggs we probably would look like crap on the blitz.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='reediddy' timestamp='1292351406' post='575175']
Correct, I did question the performance against the Texans. But it was the TEAM performance that I thought was disgraceful. The fact that we once again build a lead and squander it to a less-than-elite team is worrying. I concede that yes this was essentially their season on the line, so they came out and played their best half of football the entire year.
[/quote]
I understand. I mean, if it was an even game all the way to OT, most of us probably wouldn't feel as negative towards our performance. But our lapses in execution after the KR return were mind boggling.

[reediddy]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1292386838' post='576015']
Fans my overrate him but anyone whose watched him play this year knows the burst hasn't been there and that was obvious last night. He made a nice play to break up a pass last night but he might have intercepted it a few years ago.

I wasn't surprised to see Leach rock Ray a number of times. Sadly, it's happened a lot more this season.
[/quote]

It happens, we've played against some good fullbacks this year. Mughelli, Leach, Hillis is essentially a running FB. I wish we hadn't let Mughelli walk when he did

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='reediddy' timestamp='1292443140' post='576488']
It happens, we've played against some good fullbacks this year. Mughelli, Leach, Hillis is essentially a running FB. I wish we hadn't let Mughelli walk when he did
[/quote]

Yep, Hillis is a load but Cleveland's FB, Lawrence Vickers, is one of the more underrated FBs in the game and he battered Ravens players that day.

Agreed about Mughelli. He isn't the runner or receiver Le'Ron is but he's a better blocker in my opinion.

[ravensfan160]

He had a poor game against Houston. He said during an interview with Rich Eisen that he played like a rookie in that game. Ed himself admits to playing below his standards.

I will say this though. People are quick to say that Ed Reed was invisible out there I think in part to what they see from Polamalu. They have different responsibilities! Polamalu is the SS and basically plays LB on early downs so he's involved in a lot of plays. Whereas Reed plays FS and is asked to be our last line of defense. That means playing 20 yards off the line of scrimmage out of the view of the TV cameras. If a QB is able to avoid throwing his way, then he won't make many obvious plays.

You just have to realize that often its the lack of a throw downfield in favor of a dump off to the RB that is the "impact play" by Reed.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='reediddy' timestamp='1292443140' post='576488']
It happens, we've played against some good fullbacks this year. Mughelli, Leach, Hillis is essentially a running FB. I wish we hadn't let Mughelli walk when he did
[/quote]
Can't forget Polite. He's another solid FB.

[Slim]

Ed Reed is still the best safety in the game for me. Yes he's not 100 percent, yes he looked bad on those two TDs against Houston but come on, the 1st TD looked like a bad read to me, he started back pedaling then he attacked then went back but, too late (Matt Schaub got in the pocket as he was going to scramble, he did that a couple of times)... On the 2nd TD, he was just tired i think, i mean the drive went 99 yards, that's surely why he was late on Jacoby too. I think Reed is not 100 percent yet but he's still too good, we shouldn't be asking ourselves those questions.

Slim

[wayne]

I don't care who you are ( you can have a player mixed with the talent of Ed, Troy, Deion, and Rod ), if a good QB has consistently 4+ seconds to throw the ball, you won't be able to make a play on the ball regardless of how many players you drop back. Main ingredient that causes turnovers ( sacks ) and players making a play on the ball is pressure on the QB ( see Josh Wilson pick ).Even with coverage sacks / picks, pressure has to be applied a little for defenders to make a play on the ball ( Steelers are great at this ). We won't get to see the best of Ed until we start applying more pressure on the QB consistently . Wonder why Nhandi A. doesn't have a ton of picks year in and year out besides the obvious notion that QBs don't challenge him alot?....... b/c the Raiders for the most part is terrible at rushing the passer. Also, for the people that says Ed and Ray looks non- existent some games......NEWSFLASH...... that can be said about any other great defensive player in the history of the NFL. Where was Troy when the Pats came to town and put on that scoring clinic ? Where have Beason and Willis been as teams been running and passing on them at will for the most part? What about Woodson? Where were all the good defensive players on the Jets when they got slaughter 45-3, 45 POINTS! You see where I'm going with this? KILL THAT FALSE NOTION THAT ED AND RAY SUPPOSE TO HAVE ALL WORLD / IMPACT GAMES EVERY WEEK......... no player in the history of the sport can attest to this. Every great defensive player has been non- existent many times in their career and if they are still playing, it will happen again .

Seriously, Mattison plays a big part in this. He plays a part in Ed not being Ed and he plays a part in the D being tired at the end of games with this, don't give up the deep play, bend don't break, beat us underneath mentality . Its like hes playing to just stay in the fight, not to win it and I feel a few of players on our D under- achieve b/c of this. He is losing the chess battle in the 2nd half of alot of games. O- Coordinators know he will hit them with a bunch of 3 man rush Cover 2, 3, and 4 man schemes so they dial up plays ( takes time to develop but they assume they will have time ) to beat those coverages and it lets the O- Coordinator and QB get in sync / rythm and thats the #1 thing you don't want. Our D use to dictate how the O calls their plays ( makes most O- Coordinators cut their PBs in half b/c they know with the pressure or blitzes that might come, play won't have time to develop but if they neva have that fear of that element , it allows them the comfort zone of utilizing their whole PB which you don't want any O- Coordinator to do, it obviously makes a team that much harder to defend ) and thats one step closer to winning the war but now its the opposite . I bet Brees hopes Mattison stick with this type of conservative approach b/c Brees will dismantle us doing this. Mattison has to use balance on D, he can't go all one thing, he has to mix it up throughout the course of the game. Show blitz more, stunt more, send your safeties sometime, rush 5 more so its hat-on-hat with a better chance of our players winning their one-on-one and this is what I feel he should do the most, try to disguise the 5th person rushing the passer.......... you can't be afraid of your DBs getting beat deep like Houston did to us in the 2nd half.

[wayne]

When teams know what you are fixing to do, the D is starting out cripple from the beginning of the snap. Like someone also pointed out, Ed plays deep so the nature of that position will be to seem non- existent alot of times as oppose to being in the box like Troy. Mattison has to get more aggressive, he can't look up at the scoreboard and let that dictate his playcalling all the time like it seems he does also ( like Cam ). I feel our D is capable of being more aggressive and playing at a high level. Yall want Cam to takes the chains off Flacco and the offense, I want Mattison to do the same thing.

[TSizzle00]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1292398933' post='576131']
Yet another great defensive player we had on our team who's career will be cut short due to the sheer amount of time he spent on the field. Peter Boulware, Duane Starks, Gary Baxter, Ed Reed, Kim Herring, Ray Lewis...all off the top of my head has had some type of major surgery in relation to beyond what normal wear and tear is on a defensive player. Polamalu would be using canes right now if he had played in Baltimore his entire career. And even now, with one of the best offenses we've ever assembled...we still cant stop leaning on the defense, even when our impact players are beyond veterans and have had major surgeries.

Do the defense a favor they've deserved since 2000 offense, and put the game on your shoulders for a couple consecutive weeks and give the defense a break...I dont know how much blood, sweat, and tears guys like Ray, Ed, and Suggs have left.
[/quote]

Thats why on the offensive of the ball I would be ashamed. Ravens supposedly horrible secondary and "old" defense still closes games better than the offense. Ravens defense has won 2 of the OT games while the Ravens O has yet to do anything in OT.

[TSizzle00]

If we had a running game we wouldn't be talking about what the defense did in the Texans game because they would have gotten rest.

[AZravensfan]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1292350014' post='575119']
Can the 2 people who voted Ed Reed is overrated let me know who you are so I can go ahead and add you to the ignore list.[img]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/baltimore-ravens.gif[/img]
[/quote]


Wow...Its up to 4 people now, they have got to be visiting fans that dont see much of Reed. If you are voting overrated please post reason why, I am sure some of us would love to hear those reasons. I cant believe it got to 4 votes of overrated.

[wayne]

Please Mods, don't delete this post, very relevant as far as what happened today......You still think Ed is overrated ? The man has 6 picks and he missed the first 6 games of the season , imagined if he had played the whole season , pretty sure he would be leading the leagues in picks possibly having over the most picks of his career ( over 9 ). See, the greatest players that ever played this game and that are still playing be non-existent at times, stretches that can be around 2-3 weeks long. Look at the Jets-Bears game today, where were their so called great defensive players? Urlacher, Harris or Scott, etc.....? Stop doubting Ed and Ray....Yes.... they have lost a step and don't dominate games more consistently than we are use to seeing but I honestly would take Ed as best FS in the league and Ray as best MLB in the game and no......I'm not looking out my purple shades.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1292497735' post='577102']
When teams know what you are fixing to do, the D is starting out cripple from the beginning of the snap. Like someone also pointed out, Ed plays deep so the nature of that position will be to seem non- existent alot of times as oppose to being in the box like Troy. Mattison has to get more aggressive, he can't look up at the scoreboard and let that dictate his playcalling all the time like it seems he does also ( like Cam ). I feel our D is capable of being more aggressive and playing at a high level. Yall want Cam to takes the chains off Flacco and the offense, I want Mattison to do the same thing.
[/quote]
I dont remember the date you posted this Wayne but for what its worth, Mattison has started blitzing him and using him alot closer to the LOS lately. I was at the game today and was surprised how often Ed was right around the 10 yard mark, which is a step up from the 30 yard mark lol

[wayne]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1293418028' post='586108']
I dont remember the date you posted this Wayne but for what its worth, Mattison has started blitzing him and using him alot closer to the LOS lately. I was at the game today and was surprised how often Ed was right around the 10 yard mark, which is a step up from the 30 yard mark lol
[/quote]
Im loving Mattison right now and the difference between him now and back then is he making pressure packages be our base D instead of the 3 man rush being our base D occasionally using the pressure packages ( term I use .... made it up) I love how hes utilizing our safeties having them playing up close and moving around occasionally blitzing them ( Landry should have had a sack ). I like what Mattison is doing right now and.....YES....... the players are playing better to make what hes doing work but it goes hand and hand b/c what hes doing now fits the type of players we have now ( more aggressive as far as react and think first [ of course they still have to think, you know what I mean ] instead of think and react [ sitback and react to what the O does, be the dictators ].