"i Am An Elite Quarterback" --- Joe Flacco ---

[cursona pirate]

thats interesting stats

[Kwothdaraven]

Whats frustrating is that people will call matt ryan elite but not flacco while he has a full 5 more points on his passer rating and has more yards on 50 less attemps(a full game and a half), and flacco has less ints.

Id definitely say flacco is elite. I just cant imagine what numbers he would put up with a better coordinator.

[RedFire]

[quote name='RedFire' timestamp='1292368285' post='575674']
if anything cam ain't always putting joe in a positon to be successful. I'll go as far to say this...IF JOE FLACCO TOOK TOM BRADYS SPOT ON THE PATS THERE WOULD BE NO DROPOFF.
[/quote]




brady didn't look leaps above and beyond brady in the playoffs. brady been a regular season stat stuffer for a good minute.

[Ed_Reed20]

I wouldn't be proud of that comment RedFire. Joe and Brady lost in the same round but your statement is still terribly wrong in my opinion.

[jdynamite]

People complain about Flacco so damn much its just annoying... Other than the 1 year with McNair no QB has ever played good with for our team let alone play good for multiple years...

People like to talk about Dilfer but forget Tony Banks was the starter for half the year... Grbac didn't do much, Boller, Redman, whoever else in between there...

Why do people trash the best the long term answer we have had... I bet Billick wishes he had flacco for his "dream office" that never worked without Moss

[hawkprey]

[quote name='RedFire' timestamp='1295229856' post='611265']


brady didn't look leaps above and beyond brady in the playoffs. brady been a regular season stat stuffer for a good minute.
[/quote]

Brady will never be as good as Brady. He's barely half the Brady that Brady is. Then again, Brady to Brady isn't really a fair comparison. ( sorry)

[RedFire]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1295230091' post='611286']
I wouldn't be proud of that comment RedFire. Joe and Brady lost in the same round but your statement is still terribly wrong in my opinion.
[/quote]


brady ain't won a playoff game in over 3yrs. his stats ain't been all that. I'm saying if brady is elite...so is joe flacco. Brady is a regular season stat stuffer and I think if flacco took bradys spot people would realize brady ain't that much better than flacco...if at all. Flacco been winning playoff games during the last 3yrs, brady hasn't won any.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

An elite quarterback wouldn't have thrown high on the closing drive, nor floated an intercept into double coverage just as ball possession became imperative.

[RedFire]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1295230676' post='611323']
Brady will never be as good as Brady. He's barely half the Brady that Brady is. Then again, Brady to Brady isn't really a fair comparison. ( sorry)
[/quote]


haha...that's funny. cuz brady ain't been the brady of the past IMO. but yeah...i meant flacco.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Ed_Reed_Pick_Six' timestamp='1295231004' post='611352']
An elite quarterback wouldn't have thrown high on the closing drive, nor floated an intercept into double coverage just as ball possession became imperative.
[/quote]
High throw? Where? When?

If you're talking about the ball to Housh, go watch again.....

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1295231134' post='611364']
High throw? Where? When?

If you're talking about the ball to Housh, go watch again.....
[/quote]

He's talking about the ball to Heap on first down of the final drive.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RedFire' timestamp='1295230873' post='611341']
brady ain't won a playoff game in over 3yrs. his stats ain't been all that. I'm saying if brady is elite...so is joe flacco. Brady is a regular season stat stuffer and I think if flacco took bradys spot people would realize brady ain't that much better than flacco...if at all. Flacco been winning playoff games during the last 3yrs, brady hasn't won any.
[/quote]

Is it Brady's fault, his D gave up an 80-yard TD on the first play from scrimmage and then his left tackle couldn't block Suggs which led to him being stripped?

Honestly, if you think Brady isn't that much better than Joe or that Flacco is even better, you're a blind homer.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1295231228' post='611371']
He's talking about the ball to Heap on first down of the final drive.
[/quote]
Ah, yes.....thanks for clarification

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ed_Reed_Pick_Six' timestamp='1295231004' post='611352']<br />An elite quarterback wouldn't have thrown high on the closing drive, nor floated an intercept into double coverage just as ball possession became imperative.<br />[/quote]


actually, elite QBs do do that.
If Brees can throw more than twice as many picks as Flacco, and Manning can throw half a dozen more than Flacco, and still be considered elite, then singling out a bad pass / decision by Flacco isnt a reason to knock him.

[RedFire]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1295231317' post='611378']
Is it Brady's fault, his D gave up an 80-yard TD on the first play from scrimmage and then his left tackle couldn't block Suggs which led to him being stripped?

Honestly, if you think Brady isn't that much better than Joe or that Flacco is even better, you're a blind homer.
[/quote]


i think brady is a product of bill bilichick...hence i think they have a better coaching staff. Give New England Joe Flacco with all his talents and they start another dynasty. that's not being a homer...i just realize billichick maximizes a players ability. I Honestly don't believe Brady could be any more successful than flacco as the Ravens QB.

is that being a "homer"?

[Militant X 1]

Flacco elite? naw!

he definately wouldn't be my first choice for a QB to go behind enemy lines with and to put the team on his back and the game into his hands that's for sure! why not? i've witnessed his gameplay for 3 years now and to be honest....not too much has changed! maybe that's Cam and Zorn's fault or maybe....it's Flacco's fault as well.

can he become elite? perhaps!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RedFire' timestamp='1295231868' post='611416']
i think brady is a product of bill bilichick...hence i think they have a better coaching staff. Give New England Joe Flacco with all his talents and they start another dynasty. that's not being a homer...i just realize billichick maximizes a players ability. I Honestly don't believe Brady could be any more successful than flacco as the Ravens QB.

is that being a "homer"?
[/quote]

Fair enough. You're entitled to that opinion. The things Brady has done and the way he's done them in his career clearly prove he's a superior QB to Joe in my opinion.

I can't stand the media's groveling at his feet, especially Colin Cowherd but the guy's pocket presence and mobility, accuracy and ability to usually come through in the clutch aren't by-products of any system.

[RedFire]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1295232779' post='611449']
Fair enough. You're entitled to that opinion. The things Brady has done and the way he's done them in his career clearly prove he's a superior QB to Joe in my opinion.

I can't stand the media's groveling at his feet, especially Colin Cowherd but the guy's pocket presence and mobility, accuracy and ability to usually come through in the clutch aren't by-products of any system.
[/quote]

would brady have made a difference for us against the steelers everything else remaning the same? no arm band...poor protection...receivers dropping balls....and cam cameron calling the plays?

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1295231404' post='611386']
actually, elite QBs do do that.
If Brees can throw more than twice as many picks as Flacco, and Manning can throw half a dozen more than Flacco, and still be considered elite, then singling out a bad pass / decision by Flacco isnt a reason to knock him.
[/quote]
Do you find that a coincidence that both those quarterbacks were forced to throw, as their respective running games had been ruined by injury.

Comparing Brees and Manning is foolish on your behalf. Both are former Superbowl MVP's and Hall of Famer's last time I checked. I would love to have seen how Flacco went had he not had a healthy Rice or McGahee for the defence to account for.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RedFire' timestamp='1295258051' post='612136']
would brady have made a difference for us against the steelers everything else remaning the same? no arm band...poor protection...receivers dropping balls....and cam cameron calling the plays?
[/quote]

I think he would have. I think Brady would have at least got the ball to some WRs Joe missed. I don't think he would have thrown the pick to Clark. I don't he would have taken a few of the sacks(some couldn't be avoided) Flacco did, much less run out of bounds well behind the line of scrimmage. That's just my opinion.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ed_Reed_Pick_Six' timestamp='1295258643' post='612139']<br />Do you find that a coincidence that both those quarterbacks were forced to throw, as their respective running games had been ruined by injury. <br /><br />Comparing Brees and Manning is foolish on your behalf. Both are former Superbowl MVP's and Hall of Famer's last time I checked. I would love to have seen how Flacco went had he not had a healthy Rice or McGahee for the defence to account for.<br />[/quote]

I think you missed the point of what I was saying. The point was that even SB winning, future HOF quarterbacks make bad throws and bad decisions, as evidenced by their much higher INT totals (and INT ratio per pass attempt) shows.
To single out a bad play by Flacco and say that a truely elite player would not have done that is merely speculation. We see Brees and Manning force throws into coverage as well.

[RedFire]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1295275189' post='612282']
I think he would have. I think Brady would have at least got the ball to some WRs Joe missed. I don't think he would have thrown the pick to Clark. I don't he would have taken a few of the sacks(some couldn't be avoided) Flacco did, much less run out of bounds well behind the line of scrimmage. That's just my opinion.
[/quote]

i've seen QB's complete the pass even though it's not recommended to go there with bracket coverage. I seen drew brees make that throw by putting the ball on a line many of times. So i'm sure Brady can make the throw...but he could also not make it just like flacco. Brady sails some ball too.

I dunno the play called....but i have a feeling cam told flacco to drop back and throw it to heap. I don't think there was suppose to be a progression on that play.

I think flacco has been doing the best he can with the offensive situation IMO.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RedFire' timestamp='1295311755' post='614017']
i've seen QB's complete the pass even though it's not recommended to go there with bracket coverage. I seen drew brees make that throw by putting the ball on a line many of times. So i'm sure Brady can make the throw...but he could also not make it just like flacco. Brady sails some ball too.

I dunno the play called....but i have a feeling cam told flacco to drop back and throw it to heap. I don't think there was suppose to be a progression on that play.

I think flacco has been doing the best he can with the offensive situation IMO.
[/quote]

I never said the attempt to go to Heap was a bad decision, the throw was obviously poor. Yes, even great QBs sail passes but again, in that situation, with the crowd very much back in the game, you don't loft a pass to a TE like Heap, whose best days are behind him.

Maybe Joe was doing the best he could this season. I feel the Ravens could have won with that and they should have won Thursday night. I'm not going to absolve him of responsibility for the meltdown though.

[Steelpride]

Lets face it with defenses like the Steelers and the Ravens have, it is tough to qualify any QB in the AFC North as elite. Brady and Manning do not face defenses twice a year that even compare with the Steelers or Ravens.

[cuervodoro]

Part of Harboraugh's job is to intercede periodically, to make checks and balances; for example, when OC gets in the QBs direction.

We give the OC way too much creedence.

The HC steps in or nullifies the OC decision-making when it becomes less effectual.

Flacco is very good, and capable of doing more.

[ravensdfan]

Harbaugh is a ST guy. He is hands-off when it comes to his coordinators. That's alright and works if you have the right people in place. Cam is not that right person.

[DMH_in_WA]

[quote name='cuervodoro' timestamp='1295315927' post='614195']
Part of Harboraugh's job is to intercede periodically, to make checks and balances; for example, when OC gets in the QBs direction.

We give the OC way too much creedence.

The HC steps in or nullifies the OC decision-making when it becomes less effectual.

Flacco is very good, and capable of doing more.
[/quote]

I can't remember the game, but there's a post-game presser video with Harbaugh where he is asked about just that (does he step in an change the calls that Cameron is making). The answer was unequivocally no. He and Cameron will discuss situations and what outcome that Harbaugh would like to see but Cameron is free to select the plays he thinks will get them there.

Everything I've seen/heard from Harbaugh sounds like he basically steps in after a game and discuses what went wrong with Cameron, but it's up to Cameron to take the lead and figure out how to fix it.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1295277419' post='612347']
I think you missed the point of what I was saying. The point was that even SB winning, future HOF quarterbacks make bad throws and bad decisions, as evidenced by their much higher INT totals (and INT ratio per pass attempt) shows.
To single out a bad play by Flacco and say that a truely elite player would not have done that is merely speculation. We see Brees and Manning force throws into coverage as well.
[/quote]
To be considered elite, I think he needs to have bigger Playoff performances. I know he is young, but has played well in one of four Playoff games thus far.

[3-4ravdef509]

I guess Matt Ryan isn't elite either

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Ed_Reed_Pick_Six' timestamp='1295345896' post='614675']
To be considered elite, I think he needs to have bigger Playoff performances. I know he is young, but has played well in one of four Playoff games thus far.
[/quote]


In his first year, Indy failed to qualify for the post-season. Manning's stats that year were 26 TDs, 28 INTs, and a 71.2 QB rating.

His playoff stats for the next two years in the post-season were 0 TDs, 0 INTS, and a 60.9 QB rating, his 3rd year post-season stats, 0 TDs, 1 INT and a 82.0 QB rating.

In his 4th year they failed to qualify for the playoffs and his season stats were 26 TDS, 23 INTs and a 82.0 QB rating.

In his fifth year his post-season record was 0 TDs, 2 INTS and a 31.8 QB rating.

Perhaps my memory fails me but I am pretty sure that he was considered elite by then. And, yet, he had not won a playoff game.

Elite QBs were not born that way. We are so accustomed to Manning and Brady now that we seem to think they came out of the shoot the way they are now. That is not the case. They came out with talent that was cultivated in the right way.

Joe is right on target in his growth, especially when one considers that he came into the league behind the learning curve since he came from a small school.

I had a piano teacher in my youth. I had a natural gift for the piano. After 4 years she looked at me and said, "I've taken you as far as I can, you can go further but you need a better teacher than me." I think that is where we are with Cam.