Offense Execution Problems, Or Good Film Study?

[ravenwildman]

I was watching some recorded Ravens games yesterday. This was to partly take away some of the sour feeling about Sunday, and mostly because I am just a die hard Ravens fan.

While watching, I notice that several defenses shifted before a play to match the play that was coming. Not always, but more than should happen on play action and runs anyway. I found that odd.

It reminded me of long, long, ago when I played HS football. We used to love to play this one team. Every time the QB was planning a pass, he licked his fingers on his passing hand. On runs he licked the fingers of both hands. He had a tendency to look in the direction it was going as well. Didn't take rocket science to defend them, man we looked like football geniuses!

Now that was HS ball (Joe would not do something like that.... I hope ), and Pro football plays are a lot more complex across the board then any HS play could be.

But.....just maybe, is the Ravens offense tipping its hand somehow? Is it possible that something is giving it away? I watched as hard as possible the run plays on TV, it did seem like the opposing defense was swarming on the ball faster then our players could block. I know the Ravens frontline is quick, so something doesn't click right.

I bet if they had Ray Lewis and the defense review the offense tapes, they could pick it apart. No egos, who better to tell you what to look for and beat an offense, then our defense? This way you can break any tendencies.

Oh, BTW the opposing QB from my HS days finally figured it out (some girl blabbed). We got stomped 45 - 7 the next time we played them.

Just a thought.....GO RAVENS!

[AwakenTheDemon]

How about neither and go with offensive play calls. Because right now, the only thing the offense is giving away is leads.

[flynismo]

I think it's unfair to Cam to say that our execution hasn't been a problem at times (several examples of that from the PIT game alone.) But, as far as I can tell, it's about 70% Cam / 30% players not executing.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291843006' post='567364']
I think it's unfair to Cam to say that our execution hasn't been a problem at times (several examples of that from the PIT game alone.) But, as far as I can tell, it's about 70% Cam / 30% players not executing.
[/quote]

Agreed. A lot of us have crucified Cam for taking his foot of the gas when the team has a lead but on the play where Polamalu stripped Joe, he was trying to be aggressive but the players didn't execute. The coaches have taken heat for calling a pass play in that situation but if Oher had got a hand on him, it likely would have been a completion to Dickson.

[Twistidfunk]

well, anytime McGahee is in the backfield...it's a run!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Twistidfunk' timestamp='1291844565' post='567403']
well, anytime McGahee is in the backfield...it's a run!
[/quote]

I love Rice and he threw some great blocks Sunday night but he was also overmatched at times. Why in the world Cam didn't put in Willis, whose proven to be among the better RBs in the league in terms of pass protection, galls me.

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291843006' post='567364']
I think it's unfair to Cam to say that our execution hasn't been a problem at times (several examples of that from the PIT game alone.) But, as far as I can tell, it's about 70% Cam / 30% players not executing.
[/quote]

That's very true. However, every team is going to have hiccups when it comes to execution, no offense is absolutely perfect. However the frequent baffling decisions and apparent state of content in having only a 7 to 10 point lead is only compounding the problem. It's easier to overcome poor execution if your team's at least calling smart plays more often than not. Not to mention, it's not fair to Mattison and the entire defense to basically say "Hey, we got you a seven point cushion. Hold onto it, please.".

[flynismo]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1291845135' post='567416']<br />That's very true. However, every team is going to have hiccups when it comes to execution, no offense is absolutely perfect. However the frequent baffling decisions and apparent state of content in having only a 7 to 10 point lead is only compounding the problem. It's easier to overcome poor execution if your team's at least calling smart plays more often than not. Not to mention, it's not fair to Mattison and the entire defense to basically say &quot;Hey, we got you a seven point cushion. Hold onto it, please.&quot;.<br />[/quote]


believe it or not, I thought Cam did an amazing job the first 3 quarters of the game this week. Probably the best performance he had all year. The 4th quarter was terrible for the most part.
So only for this one game, I'm going to disagree with you ... Our offense blew a few golden opportunities that were made possible by Cam.
But I guess every squirrel finds a nut ... Because more often than not, cam's to blame.


See Cam, I give you credit when you deserve it, so stop logging into the forums and negging me when I talk about you!!

[Finally]

[quote name='ravenwildman' timestamp='1291841666' post='567333']Now that was HS ball (Joe would not do something like that.... I hope ), and Pro football plays are a lot more complex across the board then any HS play could be.
[/quote]


Actually I have heard a few ex-NFL defensive players say they had tells on some offensive players (not always the qb). The defense studies those things like poker players.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1291845135' post='567416']
That's very true. However, every team is going to have hiccups when it comes to execution, no offense is absolutely perfect. However the frequent baffling decisions and apparent state of content in having only a 7 to 10 point lead is only compounding the problem. [b]It's easier to overcome poor execution if your team's at least calling smart plays more often than not. Not to mention, it's not fair to Mattison and the entire defense to basically say "Hey, we got you a seven point cushion. Hold onto it, please.[/b]".
[/quote]

The problem with that is what constitutes a smart play call or not? It's easy to question the plays that don't work, but who questions the successful plays. At what point do u look at plays that don't work and say, the offense should have executed better? At what part do u look at a successful play and say the execution overcame a poor play call?

I look at the 2 times in the Steelers game when the Ravens were backed up on their own goaline. On 3rd and 15 from the 3, Cam calls for a deep pass to Boldin and on 3rd and 6 from the 6, he calls a deep pass to Stallworth. Both plays were successful. Those 2 plays are now viewed as smart plays or good play calls.

However what if Flacco would have thrown an INT or pick 6 in one of those situations. Many people would then turn around and say how much call let his ego get in the way and he should have just called a safe pass and allowed the defense to try and get the ball back.

Look at the play call that had Dennis Pitta wide open down the field, but Flacco missed him. Was that a poor or not smart play call, and it showed in the result of the play being incomplete? or Was that a good play call and the players just didn't execute?

In that situation the offense had just scored, and with a 7-0 led the defense forced the Steelers to punt and Webb gets a 35 yard return out to the 49 yardline. Cam calls an aggressive play that had Pitta wide open inside the 25 yardline and had Flacco hit him, he probably scores. So was that a poor decision by Cam?

Was the TD pass to Boldin a bad play call by Cam, that the offense overcame with good execution? Or was it just a really good call at the time of the game?

I think if we took the result of the play out of the equation it would be really difficult to determine what is or isn't a smart play call.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1291860604' post='567682']

Was the TD pass to Boldin a bad play call by Cam, that the offense overcame with good execution? Or was it just a really good call at the time of the game?

[/quote]


Off topic kinda, but that TD to Boldin was all Flacco. Flacco drew Hairball into the corner of the end zone by looking him off, by the time Hairball looked back at Q he was already wide open for an easy score.
Of course, that could have easily turned out badly as well, since Boldin was double covered, but it's one of those things that will never show up in the stat line.

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

All good points mentioned so far.
I think we have become a combination of predictable and stagnant in our play calling. For example, how many times can we give Stallworth the ball on an end around without faking it? Play blew up! Now when we actually passed it to him for big yards, nobody has seen that yet, and amazingly he was so fast he had to wait for it.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291861262' post='567686']
Off topic kinda, but that TD to Boldin was all Flacco. Flacco drew Hairball into the corner of the end zone by looking him off, by the time Hairball looked back at Q he was already wide open for an easy score.
Of course, that could have easily turned out badly as well, since Boldin was double covered, but it's one of those things that will never show up in the stat line.
[/quote]

Thats my point exactly. On 2nd and 10 from the 14 Cam calls a play action pass, even though the offense ran 4 other times for a total of 7 yards on that drive. Is that a smart play? or just a play that Flacco made work?

When players execute the play that's called it always looks good and seems to be the right call.

And yes Flacco did do a great job on that play as well as the oline and TEs who gave him the time to make that play.

[sandman]

the ravens should be in the shotgun on 2nd and 3rd down all the time then you would see joe light up the offence like brady does,the good offenses are always in the shotgun and joe being 6 foot 5 would thrive in the shotgun,p.s in important games once and awhile they should let ray rice return the kickoff,the colts had a player named joe washington who was simuler to ray and returned kickoffs and played halfback,and i dont want to here how he might get hurt were here to win games anyway we can and ray would be a hell of a kickoff returner.you can bet belacheck would do it-sandman

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1291843610' post='567380']
Agreed. A lot of us have crucified Cam for taking his foot of the gas when the team has a lead but on the play where Polamalu stripped Joe, he was trying to be aggressive but the players didn't execute. The coaches have taken heat for calling a pass play in that situation but if Oher had got a hand on him, it likely would have been a completion to Dickson.
[/quote]

But with 3:40 left in the game, in our own territory, our defense shutting down their offense, that is not the time to try to be aggressive. He should have tried that earlier in the game when he was too busy being conservative with a 4 pt lead. Again, it is not how much we are running or passing but the WHEN factor.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1291900267' post='568015']
But with 3:40 left in the game, in our own territory, our defense shutting down their offense, that is not the time to try to be aggressive. He should have tried that earlier in the game when he was too busy being conservative with a 4 pt lead. Again, it is not how much we are running or passing but the WHEN factor.
[/quote]

I can respect that side of the argument. Had McClain been playing, I think we may have seen run there. Not that Cam couldn't have still run the ball there but the starting FB's absence had to have played a factor.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1291920567' post='568280']
I can respect that side of the argument. Had McClain been playing, I think we may have seen run there. Not that Cam couldn't have still run the ball there but the starting FB's absence had to have played a factor.
[/quote]

Agreed that McClain's absence was a factor in this game but again, we knew for how long he was likely out? And Cam had absolutely no back-up plan whatsoever??? That's just insane.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1291930943' post='568446']
Agreed that McClain's absence was a factor in this game but again, we knew for how long he was likely out? And Cam had absolutely no back-up plan whatsoever??? That's just insane.
[/quote]

The back-up plan was to simply run more single-back formations, which we saw. On that play, the Steelers expected a run, as evidence by both Polamalu and Timmons creeping up to the line. Had Joe simply handed the ball off to Rice, it likely would have resulted in a loss. That's why to me, passing the ball was the right call.

I could see a QB like Brady going for a QB sneak if he was in that situation but Joe isn't that savvy.