If Rex Were Fired

[fistfullwales]

If Rex Ryan and the Jets continue to roll downhill and Rex is fired for one reason or another, would you want him to come back as DC and would HE even want to come back?

Personally, I love Rex.

[bmorefan444]

I think Rex's job is secure for this season. Yeah, they got embarassed by the Pats, but he has really improved that team and he will bring them to the playoffs for the second consecutive time.

Nowww, if we were dreaming, I would definitely take him as our DC. I think Mattison is doing a good job, but Rex is a guru.

[1/28/01]

No

[BirdWatcher]

No. Good DC or not, he does not fit our "image". He's a loud-mouthed, foul-mouthed, arrogant human being.

[fistfullwales]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1291817248' post='567000']
No. Good DC or not, he does not fit our "image". He's a loud-mouthed, foul-mouthed, arrogant human being.
[/quote]
As DC he would not be at liberty to talk as much as he does now as HC, and he would definitly be prohibited from talking trash. This is completely theoretical.

[theFRANCHISE]

Despite the statistical success his defenses have had, Rex's scheme has been historically owned by Peyton Manning and Tom Brady -- guys who the Ravens will likely see in the playoffs annually. The closest the Ravens came to actually beating those two (and, in the case of Brady, actually succeeding) was last season under Greg Mattison.

Even with the Jets, Rex Ryan's defense has allowed huge yardage and big points against the Colts and Patriots. Though Rex has split with the Pats twice now, Brady has now figured out Rex's defense and it showed Monday night.

[AsianRice]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1291817717' post='567004']
Despite the statistical success his defenses have had, Rex's scheme has been historically owned by Peyton Manning and Tom Brady -- guys who the Ravens will likely see in the playoffs annually. The closest the Ravens came to actually beating those two (and, in the case of Brady, actually succeeding) was last season under Greg Mattison.

Even with the Jets, Rex Ryan's defense has allowed huge yardage and big points against the Colts and Patriots. Though Rex has split with the Pats twice now, Brady has now figured out Rex's defense and it showed Monday night.
[/quote]
True, why can't we let Joe do that?

[I AM LEGEND]

So wait...Rex takes his team to the AFC championship last year and has them at 9-3 now....






...and their rolling downhill?

[bauer77]

Um, didnt Rex Ryan like talk trash to us? like the week leading up to the first game? i know its football and all but still, that'd kinda make us look bad.


and besides, hes 9-3 and most likely gonna make it to the playoffs...how are they going downhill?

[True]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1291817248' post='567000']
No. Good DC or not, he does not fit our "image". He's a loud-mouthed, foul-mouthed, arrogant human being.
[/quote]
That's because he's in the worlds biggest media market and every little thing is over exposed there. In the 10 years he was here, he didn't come off as that because the Baltimore media market wouldn't expose him like that.

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1291817717' post='567004']
Despite the statistical success his defenses have had, Rex's scheme has been historically owned by Peyton Manning and Tom Brady -- guys who the Ravens will likely see in the playoffs annually. The closest the Ravens came to actually beating those two (and, in the case of Brady, actually succeeding) was last season under Greg Mattison.
[/quote]
I disagree.

Did we forgot the 2006 home playoff game where he completely shut down Peyton Manning and it was the offense that lost the game for them? And the 2007 MNF game where the Ravens actually came close to stopping the Patriots from being undefeated if it wasn't for a complete team melt down?

Also Rex is 2-2 against Brady, while the Mattison is 0-2 against Big Ben. I guess he hasn't figured him out either. Defense isn't the only side of the ball you count while going up against great quarterbacks, the offense plays a pivotal role as well.

[theFRANCHISE]

I don't believe the OP was saying that the Jets [i]are[/i] going downhill, I believe they said [i]if[/i] the Jets were to [i]continue[/i] a downward spiral after Monday's shelacking.

[bauer77]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1291820279' post='567034']
I don't believe the OP was saying that the Jets [i]are[/i] going downhill, I believe they said [i]if[/i] the Jets were to [i]continue[/i] a downward spiral after Monday's shelacking.
[/quote]



ohhh ok yes. my fault i went back and re-read it again. ive thought the last few weeks that the Jets arent a very "good" 9-3. they barely beat the lions, texans and the browns, not that any of them teams are necessarily bad, but the jets got lucky. so they couldve been a 6-6 team worried about making the playoffs.

[True]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1291819761' post='567026']
So wait...Rex takes his team to the AFC championship last year and has them at 9-3 now....
...and their rolling downhill?
[/quote]

Yep. The Jets had an absolutely ugly and most embarrassing loss on MNF, but they're still 9-3, one game out for the division, and poised to make the playoffs either way.

Rex is in a fine spot and this thread will just dwell into a Rex bashing thread or a Mattison stinks thread.

[ravensfan160]

Even though the Jets lost by 42 points and us by only 3 the loss counts the same in the standings. The Jets are still 9-3. Ryan isn't going anywhere.

[PuRock]

Why would Rex be fired? Because he got blown out by the Pats? Jets organization is loving Rex. They love the moxy and that new york style of coaching. Their team has no doubtfully improved since he's been on board.

But even if down the road (many years) if he does get fired. He's not coming back to D-Cord. It just ain't happening. He's done enough to build a niche as a head coach.

[I AM LEGEND]

Even if the OP said IF .... Rex's job is more then safe...it would have to be one hell of
a mess up to get him to lose his job anytime in the near future...
But I agree..Rexs defenses do great against non-elite Qbs...where as more base defenses like Mattison is running give us better shots against the Mannings and Bradys..

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1291820264' post='567033']
I disagree.

Did we forgot the 2006 home playoff game where he completely shut down Peyton Manning and it was the offense that lost the game for them? And the 2007 MNF game where the Ravens actually came close to stopping the Patriots from being undefeated if it wasn't for a complete team melt down?

Also Rex is 2-2 against Brady, while the Mattison is 0-2 against Big Ben. I guess he hasn't figured him out either. Defense isn't the only side of the ball you count while going up against great quarterbacks, the offense plays a pivotal role as well.
[/quote]
Peyton Manning owns Rex Ryan's defenses.

Since 2005, Ryan's first year as a defensive coordinator, Manning's numbers:
5-1 (including playoffs)
Outscored Ryan's team 129-51
108 of 171 (63.1%) for 1321 yards, 12 TDs, 2 INTs

Theoretically, if Manning were to play a 16-game season against Rex Ryan's defenses, he would average 288 of 456 (63.1%) for 3523 yards, 32 TDs, 6 INTs. In the one regular-season loss to Rex Ryan, Manning was benched shortly before the end of the first half when the Colts' starters were being rested for the playoffs.

Let's take a look at Brady's numbers in that same span against Ryan's defense (their first meeting was in 2007):
3-2
Outscored Ryan's team 126-85
110 of 191 (57.6%) for 1357 yards, 9 TDs, 4 INTs

That projects to a 16-game average of 352 of 611 (57.6%) for 4342 yards, 29 TDs, 13 INTs for Brady against Ryan's defenses. Despite the W/L record, Brady has played well against Rex, just as Manning has. If the Ravens are to advance in the playoffs every year, they're bound to see these two guys at some point.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='bauer77' timestamp='1291820685' post='567038']
ohhh ok yes. my fault i went back and re-read it again. ive thought the last few weeks that the Jets arent a very "good" 9-3. they barely beat the lions, texans and the browns, not that any of them teams are necessarily bad, but the jets got lucky. so they couldve been a 6-6 team worried about making the playoffs.
[/quote]
I agree and disagree. Although I understand the argument being made about the quality of opponents, the bottom line is always the W/L record; there's very few great teams in the league, so good teams take care of business and beat bad ones while staying competitive with other good ones. Rex has gotten the job done.

[I AM LEGEND]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1291820969' post='567043']
Why would Rex be fired? Because he got blown out by the Pats? Jets organization is loving Rex. They love the moxy and that new york style of coaching. Their team has no doubtfully improved since he's been on board.

But even if down the road (many years) if he does get fired. He's not coming back to D-Cord. It just ain't happening. He's done enough to build a niche as a head coach.
[/quote]

Not only that but I live in the NY tri-state...and all the Jets ever wanted was to start taking some of that shine away from the Giants...and every since he's been there all NY has been talking about is the Jets..Jets organization aren't giving that up anytime soon.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='I AM LEGEND' timestamp='1291821695' post='567056']
Not only that but I live in the NY tri-state...and all the Jets ever wanted was to start taking some of that shine away from the Giants...and every since he's been there all NY has been talking about is the Jets..Jets organization aren't giving that up anytime soon.
[/quote]
I see the media is also eating him up when I've passed through NY; Tom Coughlin is just too bland for them ever since he mellowed out prior to their Super Bowl season in 2007. They like a coach that gives them endless fodder in only a 10-15 minute presser.

[bauer77]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1291821497' post='567053']
I agree and disagree. Although I understand the argument being made about the quality of opponents, the bottom line is always the W/L record; there's very few great teams in the league, so good teams take care of business and beat bad ones while staying competitive with other good ones. Rex has gotten the job done.
[/quote]



Yeah i agree. I actually just contradicted myself anyway. I hate when people say "a team doesn't deserve this win or that win or this record". In todays NFL, any team can win on any given Sunday.

[True]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1291821396' post='567050']
Peyton Manning owns Rex Ryan's defenses.

Since 2005, Ryan's first year as a defensive coordinator, Manning's numbers:
5-1 (including playoffs)
Outscored Ryan's team 129-51
108 of 171 (63.1%) for 1321 yards, 12 TDs, 2 INTs

Theoretically, if Manning were to play a 16-game season against Rex Ryan's defenses, he would average 288 of 456 (63.1%) for 3523 yards, 32 TDs, 6 INTs. In the one regular-season loss to Rex Ryan, Manning was benched shortly before the end of the first half when the Colts' starters were being rested for the playoffs.

Let's take a look at Brady's numbers in that same span against Ryan's defense (their first meeting was in 2007):
3-2
Outscored Ryan's team 126-85
110 of 191 (57.6%) for 1357 yards, 9 TDs, 4 INTs

That projects to a 16-game average of 352 of 611 (57.6%) for 4342 yards, 29 TDs, 13 INTs for Brady against Ryan's defenses. Despite the W/L record, Brady has played well against Rex, just as Manning has. If the Ravens are to advance in the playoffs every year, they're bound to see these two guys at some point.
[/quote]
Franchise, you missed my point about how the offense plays a role as well. The Rex Ryan defenses did the best they could against those elite QBs while playing with putrid offenses. You can throw numbers and stats out, but the defense isn't supposed to do all the scoring. The 2006 game is just a prime example of how Rex with an amazing defense shut down Manning, yet the offense screwed him over when they finally thought they had a legit one that could carry along with a great defense. Are you going to pin that loss on him even though he "beat" Manning statistically? No, the offense didn't do their parts.

The same thing with Brady. His first year he beat the Patriots convincingly and the Patriots beat them later that season. This year he beat again convincingly and lost convincingly this prior Monday night. It's an on going chess match between great QB and defense as they both try to change their styles and defeat one another.

Theoretically you can throw numbers out towards a whole season, but those numbers you posted are not accounting for adjustments, personnel, coaches. The term "Any Given Sunday" comes to mind when thinking of these matchups outside of simulations which are not 100% accurate.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1291822251' post='567063']
Franchise, you missed my point about how the offense plays a role as well. The Rex Ryan defenses did the best they could against those elite QBs while playing with putrid offenses. You can throw numbers and stats out, but the defense isn't supposed to do all the scoring. The 2006 game is just a prime example of how Rex with an amazing defense shut down Manning, yet the offense screwed him over when they finally thought they had a legit one that could carry along with a great defense. Are you going to pin that loss on him even though he "beat" Manning statistically? No, the offense didn't do their parts.

The same thing with Brady. His first year he beat the Patriots convincingly and the Patriots beat them later that season. This year he beat again convincingly and lost convincingly this prior Monday night. It's an on going chess match between great QB and defense as they both try to change their styles and defeat one another.

Theoretically you can throw numbers out towards a whole season, but those numbers you posted are not accounting for adjustments, personnel, coaches. The term "Any Given Sunday" comes to mind when thinking of these matchups outside of simulations which are not 100% accurate.
[/quote]
My point, though, was to prove the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of Ryan's defensive scheme against two great QBs that the Ravens see often. Besides, with how enamored we Ravens fans are with defense, it's not out of the realm of possibility for defense to carry a team, even in a pass-heavy league.

I understand that adjustments and other factors play into each game, but the statistics show that the 2006 playoff game against Manning's Colts was almost an anomaly when you consider Manning's body of work against Ryan's defenses across two teams. Also, consider that it's not the offense that's giving up points to a QB, so even if the [i]team's[/i] W/L record is taken out of the discussion, the numbers still support the notion that Manning simply has a field day with Rex Ryan's defenses. Even just [i]watching[/i] Manning play against Ryan's defenses, you see a poise that indicates he knows what he's doing against that team, even as he's being harassed.

[berad]

Rex Ryan wouldn't want to go back to being a defensive coordinator, anyways, and especially here. He's thrown enough barbs at our coaches and players. Besides, by my angle, Greg Mattison has been doing pretty well this season.

I don't want Rex. Talks tough and can't back it up. He's like Bart Scott, only fatter and slower.

[theFRANCHISE]

More food for thought: the Ravens offense was much improved in 2008 than in 2007 with a new QB; new RB; improved offensive line; new coaching staff; and had a defense that finished 3rd in points allowed, and 2nd in yards allowed. The team was tops in the league in positive point-differential and 5th in positive yard-differential -- and this squad still got killed by the Colts, with Manning going 19-of-28 for 271 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, and finishing with a 31-3 victory.

[True]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1291822738' post='567066']
My point, though, was to prove the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of Ryan's defensive scheme against two great QBs that the Ravens see often. Besides, with how enamored we Ravens fans are with defense, it's not out of the realm of possibility for defense to carry a team, even in a pass-heavy league.[/quote]
Then is Mattison not responsible for the Ravens defeating the Colts last year in the regular season and playoffs? Why not hold him accountable as well for those two losses to the Manning? I guess his schemes aren't effective either since the Ravens still lost the game. The Ravens offense has never shown up against the Colts when they've faced them and I'm not going to bind those losses to either Rex or Mattison because the offense hasn't done their due in helping to beat the Colts.


[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1291822738' post='567066']
I understand that adjustments and other factors play into each game, but the statistics show that the 2006 playoff game against Manning's Colts was almost an anomaly when you consider Manning's body of work against Ryan's defenses across two teams. Also, consider that it's not the offense that's giving up points to a QB, so even if the [i]team's[/i] W/L record is taken out of the discussion, the numbers still support the notion that Manning simply has a field day with Rex Ryan's defenses. Even just [i]watching[/i] Manning play against Ryan's defenses, you see a poise that indicates he knows what he's doing against that team, even as he's being harassed.
[/quote]
Why is the 2006 game an anomaly? Because that despite Ryan with the best personnel and one of the best historic defenses still failed to defeat the Colts even though they had a real offense for the first time in Ravens history? The Ravens finally got some real offense starting in '08 to scoring the most points in franchise history last year, and still came up short against the Colts despite the defense playing well last season. Sorry, but I just cannot pin losses against Manning/Brady solely on the defensive side of the ball.

[True]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1291823022' post='567069']
More food for thought: the Ravens offense was much improved in 2008 than in 2007 with a new QB; new RB; improved offensive line; new coaching staff; and had a defense that finished 3rd in points allowed, and 2nd in yards allowed. The team was tops in the league in positive point-differential and 5th in positive yard-differential -- and this squad still got killed by the Colts, with Manning going 19-of-28 for 271 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, and finishing with a 31-3 victory.
[/quote]
You put in Manning statistics, but why did you leave out that Joe Flacco also threw 3 interceptions and that the Ravens ran for only 53 yards? You're not holding the offenses accountable in these losses.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1291823566' post='567073']
Then is Mattison not responsible for the Ravens defeating the Colts last year in the regular season and playoffs? Why not hold him accountable as well for those two losses to the Manning? I guess his schemes aren't effective either since the Ravens still lost the game. The Ravens offense has never shown up against the Colts when they've faced them and I'm not going to bind those losses to either Rex or Mattison because the offense hasn't done their due in helping to beat the Colts.

Why is the 2006 game an anomaly? Because that despite Ryan with the best personnel and one of the best historic defenses still failed to defeat the Colts even though they had a real offense for the first time in Ravens history? The Ravens finally got some real offense starting in '08 to scoring the most points in franchise history last year, and still came up short against the Colts despite the defense playing well last season. Sorry, but I just cannot pin losses against Manning/Brady solely on the defensive side of the ball.
[/quote]
Greg Mattison has coached only two games against Peyton Manning, and the Ravens came closer to beating the Colts than in Rex Ryan's five attempts, allowing 37 points, which comes down to less than a 19-point average per game. Theoretically, if you hold an opponent to 19 points in today's league, you're bound to win more often than not. Just looking at last week's scores, only 5 teams scored more than 19 points and lost. That's 5 games out of 16 played. Though you are correct in that the offense didn't help in beating the Colts, again, I'm looking more at what the defense is allowing than what the offense is producing. My argument is still looking at scheme vs. QB, NOT team vs. team.

Again, my point is that Peyton Manning and Tom Brady have owned Rex Ryan's defenses, and that Greg Mattison has had better success against those two QBs than Ryan did.

[True]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1291824015' post='567077']
Greg Mattison has coached only two games against Peyton Manning, and the Ravens came closer to beating the Colts than in Rex Ryan's five attempts, allowing 37 points, which comes down to less than a 19-point average per game. Theoretically, if you hold an opponent to 19 points in today's league, you're bound to win more often than not. Just looking at last week's scores, only 5 teams scored more than 19 points and lost. That's 5 games out of 16 played. Though you are correct in that the offense didn't help in beating the Colts, again, I'm looking more at what the defense is allowing than what the offense is producing. My argument is still looking at scheme vs. QB, NOT team vs. team.

Again, my point is that Peyton Manning and Tom Brady have owned Rex Ryan's defenses, and that Greg Mattison has had better success against those two QBs than Ryan did.
[/quote]
Mattison took over in '09. The Ravens scored their highest points in offensive history that year. Is it a coincidence that the defense also happened to play better against the elite QBs?

If this is a debate about simply quarterbacks and schemes than that is a very complicated matter that goes into film break down with play calling and unfortunately I don't have the time to re watch those games and see what has happened with offense vs. defense. I apologize if that is what you wish to go into, but currently I can't engage in that.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1291824391' post='567081']
Mattison took over in '09. The Ravens scored their highest points in offensive history that year. Is it a coincidence that the defense also happened to play better against the elite QBs?

If this is a debate about simply quarterbacks and schemes than that is a very complicated matter that goes into film break down with play calling and unfortunately I don't have the time to re watch those games and see what has happened with offense vs. defense. I apologize if that is what you wish to go into, but currently I can't engage in that.
[/quote]
Defensive performance does not necessarily correlate with offensive performance; otherwise, that wouldn't explain why the Ravens have consistently ranked in the top 3 in defense since 2000 despite having had a long history of anemic offenses that couldn't hang onto the ball to save their lives. The Ravens have always played defense in spite of their offense and produced results. I understand that time of possession plays into the fatigue factor, among other things, but that doesn't explain why Rex Ryan's defenses had given up opening-drive points or points on consecutive drives [i]early[/i] in the game, when fatigue factors very little. Furthermore, giving up late-game points in tight games takes blame off the offense for the defense's performance if the offense [i]had[/i] done its job up to that point.

Again, my point remains that Rex Ryan's defenses fail against Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, and that is precisely the type of debate I was attempting to engage that you understandably don't have time for right now; most of my research had been done beforehand and was pulled from prior debates I had about this. The overall team's success and final scores notwithstanding, when it boils down to those two QBs against his defenses on the field, those particular QBs have a field day.