No Audibles Built Into Cam's Offense - Confirmed By Players

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1291869858' post='567849']
And you know Joe has no input how? How exactly does any of us know what goes on at the castle?

What player came out with the exact Quote that Cam is the problem? Every quote i've heard from players is an overall concern and problem with the offense as a whole.

You look at what Mason said after the game, and he continued to mention that it's all 11 guys plus the guys on the side and the coaches. He talked about how the players have to be more consistent over 4 quarters.

We as fans hear this and call ourselves reading between the lines and coming up with the conclusion that they are speaking out against Cam.

Boldin says there is no reason we can score 30 points a game. Well the Ravens had 4 possessions where they managed to get the ball to at least the 30 yard line of the Steelers and 2 other drives that started at the 49 and 48 yard line respectively. That's a total of 6 scoring opportunities, the Ravens only took advantage of 2 of them and that resulted in 10 points.

Those 4 missed opportunities ended like this.

1. With 13:00 on the clock in the 2nd quarter, the Ravens get the ball on the 49 yardline after a stop by the defense and a huge 35 yard punt return by Webb. Flacco misses a wide open Pitta down the field that would have been at least a 30 yard gain. At that point even a FG would have given us a 10 point lead, and crazy momentum. Instead we punt.

2. The very next offensive possession with 9:52 on the clock, the Ravens get the ball back on the 2 yard line after a huge INT from the defense. Flacco completes a 67 yard pass to Stallworth down to the 27 yardline. After a 2 yard gain what happens......Oher is whistled for a false start, Rice losses 2 yards and Flacco is sacked for 11 yards. Ravens punt.

3. After trading scores in the 3rd quarter, the Ravens get the ball back in the 4th quarter on the 48 yardline with 9:46 on the clock, a 10-6 lead and a chance to put the game away. The Ravens pick up 4 yards on 1st and 2nd down and on 3rd and 6, Flacco has he pass knocked down at the LOS.

4. With 2:51 left on the clock and down by 3, the Ravens get the ball back with a chance to tie or win. They drive the ball all the way down the field and get about 5 yards away from being in FG range. Flacco short hops a throw to Dickson and the game ends.

That's 4 wasted opportunities, not to mention getting the ball to the 6 yard line and having to settle for 3. If the offense is able to take advantage of at least 2 of those opportunities with 2TDs and add another FG, that's 24 points and more then enough to put this game away.

The Ravens players can blame themselves as much as anyone for not performing up to their potential and from the quotes I've seen this week they have taken that blame. It will truely take a team effort to fix the offense right now.
[/quote]
Very well laid out....did make me cry, though!

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1291867829' post='567799']
Really? Because McNabb went to the Pro Bowl last year. Don't confuse being surrounded by the hapless Redskins as a lack of talent on McNabb's part.
[/quote]


...and Philip rivers lost 4 starting WRs, Brady has a record season with 4starting rookies to work with, Aaron Rodgers lost 3 of his weapons..etc

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1291870307' post='567856']
Very well laid out....did make me cry, though!
[/quote]

I know how u feel. The only thing that stopped me from crying while it was actually happening was having my drink and the fact that my Son was sitting right next to me.

[berad]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1291870497' post='567862']
...and Philip rivers lost 4 starting WRs, Brady has a record season with 4starting rookies to work with, Aaron Rodgers lost 3 of his weapons..etc
[/quote]

Wait, who are Brady's four starting rookies? And I thought Rodgers only lost two receiving options?

McNabb is turning in a sub-standard season but it's still pretty good.

[noy]

Ravensfan, where do you get these quotes from Mason? I only see his original quotes, and none of it mentions blame for not playing through four quarters. Here's some quotes from the original story:

"We've just got to come to a point where it's stop all the [stuff] and play football"

What could they possibly "stop" in terms of skill? Playing poorly? Every player can have a bad series, or play, but that doesn't mean they aren't playing football (which is his alternate solution). What else could it be? Could it be Cam's play calling? Of which he considers not actually playing real football because he doesn't believe in the system? It [i]could [/i]be, and is, imo, more likely than the former idea.

"I might get crucified for this one, but with all these people we've got on offense?"

Who could he be crucified by? He's a veteran leader on the offense, so what other player(s) could he be talking about if he's talking about the players lack of skills/performance? Or is it possible he is talking about the coaches, one in particular, who lacks the skills to use the ability of his players? Again, seems more likely to me than the former idea.

I'm not saying these are concrete, they are opinionated analysis after all, but you can't just shelve certain opinions because they are based on reading in between the lines. Exact quotes mean nothing, as there can be lies or political correctness involved; Mason isn't stupid. These are just examples, and Mason definitely states he is part of the blame, but whose to say he isn't saying that to avoid real tension on the practice field. You cant. I don't take things at face value, especially when all four players' comments are so ambiguous in nature and feel like they are dancing around the subject. I'm going with my instinct on this.

Another thing to think about. Why is it that the offense only shows up for a half in the most recent football the team has played? Is that more likely to indicate a problem with the players performances, or with the strategy being implemented? Just curious as to your thoughts, because you already know my answer.

[rlh445]

I think Cam was/is trying to ween Joe in on making his own calls. Do all of you really believe that if Joe is given full control over the offense he will flourish automatically? I don't. As far as we know, he's never been given this responsibility and just thrusting it into his lap after three years of not having it isn't going to be an easy transition or something he'll immediately excel at. Even if he was given full control over the offense, all that would happen is that when things went wrong offensively, instead of blaming Cam you'd all go back to blaming Flacco. Just admit that nothing except the Super Bowl is going to make you happy and that you'll blame whoever the goat is for that week and leave it at that.

To elaborate a little: I trust Cam more than I trust myself, or any other pundit or poster on the board. No offense, obviously, but Cam has developed multiple successful QBs in his career and in my opinion continues to do so with Flacco. I trust his judgement on what to give Flacco and what not to give Flacco way more than I trust my own, or anyone else's. He's got the tenure, he's got the experience, and he's got the pedigree....and that is enough for me. If Joe isn't exhibiting behavior that Cam feels is good enough to give him the reigns over, than I guess that's it. We're gonna sink or swim with Cam, so we might as well support the man for the rest of the season.

[Romo Ravens]

I'd rather sink or swim with our franchise QB and actually see what he can do with the offense in his hands then sink or swim with he who shall not be named

[rlh445]

You'd rather have a (still in his third year) QB potentially kill our team instead of having a seasoned, proven steady hand there to guide him? Okay man! I'd rather have someone I know that has gotten it done before there to help Joe than have Joe go out by himself to run an offense he hasn't run by himself ever in three years.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1291879542' post='567938']
I think Cam was/is trying to ween Joe in on making his own calls. Do all of you really believe that if Joe is given full control over the offense he will flourish automatically? I don't. As far as we know, he's never been given this responsibility and just thrusting it into his lap after three years of not having it isn't going to be an easy transition or something he'll immediately excel at. Even if he was given full control over the offense, all that would happen is that when things went wrong offensively, instead of blaming Cam you'd all go back to blaming Flacco. Just admit that nothing except the Super Bowl is going to make you happy and that you'll blame whoever the goat is for that week and leave it at that.

To elaborate a little: I trust Cam more than I trust myself, or any other pundit or poster on the board. No offense, obviously, but Cam has developed multiple successful QBs in his career and in my opinion continues to do so with Flacco. I trust his judgement on what to give Flacco and what not to give Flacco way more than I trust my own, or anyone else's. He's got the tenure, he's got the experience, and he's got the pedigree....and that is enough for me. If Joe isn't exhibiting behavior that Cam feels is good enough to give him the reigns over, than I guess that's it. We're gonna sink or swim with Cam, so we might as well support the man for the rest of the season.[/b]
[/quote]

Grudgingly, I agreed with everything you said in this post man.

[rlh445]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1291880453' post='567946']
Grudgingly, I agreed with everything you said in this post man.
[/quote]

That's because we're pretty much the same person ER20.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1291880849' post='567948']
That's because we're pretty much the same person ER20.
[/quote]

Shh...no one else is supposed to know that.

[rock_solid]

Personally I can't figure out why you wouldn't have at least some audibles that can be called if required. However as a spectator on the outside, you can't fully understand how the team is built to run properly either unless you share that inside information. So before you start saying "this guy or this team does this and it works well for them" just remember what works in a particular situation won't necessarily work the exact same in a different situation. Just because you use audibles doesn't guarantee you will fare any better. That being said, the real key to remember is that no matter the system your playing with, there is always going to be some negatives, and that just because that element is present doesn't mean the whole system is broken. Only Cam can fully understand the real root of those issues in the system he created and we need to stay committed to it. For every change you make it creates ripple effects some of which may fare worse. The best thing to do is not question the system but believe in it and stay committed. After all the lack of commitment as a whole team hurts far more than not using audibles ever will. Championship teams are champions because they find ways to overcome all situations collectively. Any player that is going to challenge or question the leadership of their organization is not a team player and should reconsider their disposition.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='noy' timestamp='1291877539' post='567927']
Ravensfan, where do you get these quotes from Mason? I only see his original quotes, and none of it mentions blame for not playing through four quarters. Here's some quotes from the original story:

"We've just got to come to a point where it's stop all the [stuff] and play football"

What could they possibly "stop" in terms of skill? Playing poorly? Every player can have a bad series, or play, but that doesn't mean they aren't playing football (which is his alternate solution). What else could it be? Could it be Cam's play calling? Of which he considers not actually playing real football because he doesn't believe in the system? It [i]could [/i]be, and is, imo, more likely than the former idea.

"I might get crucified for this one, but with all these people we've got on offense?"

Who could he be crucified by? He's a veteran leader on the offense, so what other player(s) could he be talking about if he's talking about the players lack of skills/performance? Or is it possible he is talking about the coaches, one in particular, who lacks the skills to use the ability of his players? Again, seems more likely to me than the former idea.

I'm not saying these are concrete, they are opinionated analysis after all, but you can't just shelve certain opinions because they are based on reading in between the lines. Exact quotes mean nothing, as there can be lies or political correctness involved; Mason isn't stupid. These are just examples, and Mason definitely states he is part of the blame, but whose to say he isn't saying that to avoid real tension on the practice field. You cant. I don't take things at face value, especially when all four players' comments are so ambiguous in nature and feel like they are dancing around the subject. I'm going with my instinct on this.

Another thing to think about. Why is it that the offense only shows up for a half in the most recent football the team has played? Is that more likely to indicate a problem with the players performances, or with the strategy being implemented? Just curious as to your thoughts, because you already know my answer.
[/quote]

This post is exactly the point i was making. Too often people tend to speculate and try to find the deeper meaning into what someone says to the media instead of just taking what they said as fact. Yes it could be a lie that Mason said, it could be coach talk that Cam or Harbs says, but in my opinion it's foolish to say, direct quotes mean nothing and turn around and try to interrupt what a guy is says by reading between the lines.

As for the Mason's comments about players. All of these quotes are from Masn and here is the link.....[url="http://www.masnsports.com/dan_kolko/2010/12/mason-rips-offense-in-length-postgame-comments.html"]Click Here[/url]

On not blaming anyone in particular: "We're all in this together. I've never been one to point a finger, and I'm not going to do it now. All of us, collectively, all 11 guys on offense, plus the guys on the side, the backups, all of us. We've got to make up our mind - do we want to be a good offense or a great offense? We're neither right now at times. So, we've just got to make up our mind which one do we want to be? Because good offenses make it to the playoffs. Great offenses make it to the Super Bowl."

I could take this as he's saying Cam needs to be better........or i can take this as he's saying that the offense as a whole needs to be better. Which is exactly what he said.

On not being consistent despite it being this late in the season: "It has to come to a point where after, what 10, 12, 13 weeks now, we have to be able to consistently be effective. We're not. We look great at times, and then other times, man, we look like the Bad News Bears sometimes. Honestly. I'm speaking. We do. And I'm a part of it. So, we've got to be able to, each and every down, each and every quarter, each and every half, be a great offense, and we're not there yet."

Again i could take this as him, really wanting to be able to say, well the players play great in the first half but Cam doesn't allow us to be the same great offense in the second half.....however I've rather take this as Mason saying the offense as a whole(players and coaches) just have to be better.

As for who he would possibly get crucified by........maybe he meant getting crucified by the media and fans for speaking out and possibly being disgruntled. I mean he is just coming off a sideline spat with Flacco just two short weeks ago.

As I said before, Mason and Boldin both could be telling lies, and could really want to speak out about Cam. However everything that's coming out of these players mouths states its the entire offense. So i take them at their word and don't look to read between the lines.

Here's what Mason and Boldin said on Wednesday

With two days to reflect on the game and watch the tape, Mason stood by his statements and said his teammates and coaches did too.

“Everybody agreed. How could you not agree with it?” Mason said. “It’s obvious. … I think everybody in this locker room pretty much saw it the same way. Some people chose not to say it, but as you know, I’m not going to hold any punches.”

“Everybody on this team is on the plane, everybody’s thinking the same. We just want to go out there and score a lot of points and get this thing corrected.”

This is what Boldin said.

“It is frustrating because we are an offense that’s capable of putting up 30 points a game, easily,” wide receiver Anquan Boldin said. “But, at the same time, you can’t continue to hang your head and feel bad even when you win. There’s a lot of times where guys feel things aren’t going right just because we don’t score 40 points. This is the NFL, games are going to be tough. You’ve got to take the win and keep moving.”

Here's the link to that story on the front page. [url="http://blogs.baltimoreravens.com/2010/12/08/mason-doesnt-shy-away-from-comments/"]Mason Doesn't Shy Away From Comments[/url]

Now we can read between the lines with these comments all we want, but the fact of the matter is all of these men see that it's the entire offense that needs to improve. Not just the oline, not just the play calling, not just the QB, not just the running game or the game plan. The entire offense.

It's just easy for fans to see comments and view it as players speaking out against Cam, because right now Cam is the scapegoat for the offensive woes. However i'm so glad the players are taking their part of the blame, and trying to find ways for them to be apart of the solution instead of just pointing the finger at Cam.

[rlh445]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1291881325' post='567951']
Shh...no one else is supposed to know that.
[/quote]

Now they do! We'll have to feud with each other briefly in order to confuse the board. You're a turkey head!

[Milton145]

I don't think the problem is giving Joe Flacco total control of the offense, it's Cam making dumb decisions in the 2nd half when we have the lead is what bothers people. Do what worked for you in the first half that gave you the lead. DON'T take out your best WRs and try passing to them. DON'T run when the pass is obviously working...especially when you are only up by 4.

Cam does the exact opposite of what was working whenever we have a lead and the only time he seems to be on point is when we have to come back. But now Cam sees what happens when he does that every single game. Players will mess up. You can't expect them to be clutch EVERY single time..

[Tiznut]

I'm laughing at the notion that joe calling an audible to change protection to block troy.

He didn't look troy directly and was more caught up with the blitz to his front side.

If he saw troy he wouldn't have wound up like he did.he even said he thought the 3 step drop would beat the blitz he saw.

So again whether or not he can audible is irrelevant if he doesn't see or if he agrees with why a play is called. It's about execution and decision making.

On most blitzes joe holds on to the ball too long and that had nothing to do with the play call or audible ability and has a lot to do with the speed of his decision making

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Tiznut' timestamp='1291899270' post='568006']
I'm laughing at the notion that joe calling an audible to change protection to block troy.

He didn't look troy directly and was more caught up with the blitz to his front side.

If he saw troy he wouldn't have wound up like he did.he even said he thought the 3 step drop would beat the blitz he saw.

So again whether or not he can audible is irrelevant if he doesn't see or if he agrees with why a play is called. It's about execution and decision making.

On most blitzes joe holds on to the ball too long and that had nothing to do with the play call or audible ability and has a lot to do with the speed of his decision making
[/quote]

You do know that statistically speaking Joe Flacco is one of the best QBs in the NFL against the blitz right? I find it hard to believe that a QB that is as good against the blitz as Joe, holds the ball too long on most blitzes.

That play was not Flacco's fault one bit. Oher has to at least get a hand on Troy and that's it.

It was a basic protection and judging by the alignment of the defense Flacco's blindside should have been covered. The timing of the play called for a 3 step drop and other then the missed blocking assignment was executed perfectly.

Like i've said before, it wasn't Cam, it wasn't Joe not switching a protection or changing the play. It was 10 guys doing their job and 1 guy who didn't at the most important time of the game. Simple as that.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1291884372' post='567957']
Now they do! We'll have to feud with each other briefly in order to confuse the board. You're a turkey head!
[/quote]

You're a jive turkey!

Staying on topic, audibles or no audibles, Joe should carve up the Texans Monday night.

[noy]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1291884368' post='567956']
This post is exactly the point i was making. Too often people tend to speculate and try to find the deeper meaning into what someone says to the media instead of just taking what they said as fact. Yes it could be a lie that Mason said, it could be coach talk that Cam or Harbs says, but in my opinion it's foolish to say, direct quotes mean nothing and turn around and try to interrupt what a guy is says by reading between the lines.
[/quote]

Too often people read between the lines without proper cause or without the backing of reasonable logic. This still doesn't disprove my thoughts, because I even have you admitting that my beliefs are possible. Human beings lie all the time in every aspect of life. I view people's speech and try to decipher it, it's just how I am, but I like to think I do it with good logic.

You probably (hopefully) meant shortsighted as opposed to foolish, but you understood the sentence as you define it, not how it is perceived. My initial statement was for the effect of exaggeration, I'm glad you caught it. But do you see what I mean? There are many ways of defining someone's comments because every individual is different in their perceptions. Because there's plausibility for both of our arguments, this discussion is now over how each of us perceive people and what they say.

Since we aren't about to change ourselves because of such a topic, I think we might be wasting our energy,

But seriously, you callin' me a fool? HUH? [size="3"]HUH?[/size]

[berad]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1291920336' post='568276']
You're a[b] jive turkey! [/b]

Staying on topic, audibles or no audibles, [b]Joe should carve up the Texans Monday night.[/b]
[/quote]

Ohhh nice turkey connection!

I like how people are still placing blame on Flacco for Polamalu coming unblocked.

[reediddy]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1291923287' post='568320']
Ohhh nice turkey connection!

I like how people are still placing blame on Flacco for Polamalu coming unblocked.
[/quote]

Isn't it his duty to call out the blitz pickup? I would assume so, many other QBs do so.

[TSizzle00]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1291870497' post='567862']
...and Philip rivers lost 4 starting WRs, Brady has a record season with 4starting rookies to work with, Aaron Rodgers lost 3 of his weapons..etc
[/quote]
You mean the same Brady who throws the 4 yard pass and lets the WRs, RBs and TEs juke and dodge their way to a 20 yard TD?

[codizzle]

[quote name='reediddy' timestamp='1291924171' post='568340']
Isn't it his duty to call out the blitz pickup? I would assume so, many other QBs do so.
[/quote]
Na for the most part the oline will have their set of audibles for these situations.. Say an audible to slide left to pick up a certain blitz which is what was called and everyone got the memo besides oher

[Tiznut]

Ravens fan 23 statistically he is good but that is because a qb doesntlose rating points by getting sacked.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Tiznut' timestamp='1291933394' post='568504']
Ravens fan 23 statistically he is good but that is because a qb doesntlose rating points by getting sacked.
[/quote]

A lot of things go into a sack though. I don't buy into the QB ratings much but to deduct points from a QB's rating based on sacks would be a bit silly.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Tiznut' timestamp='1291933354' post='568500']
Ravens fan 23 statistically he is good but that is because a qb doesntlose rating points by getting sacked.
[/quote]

You're right but its not just Joe's rating. It's his completion percentage, it's his TDs and he amount of first downs he coverts against the blitz. All of those things speak to Joe great decision making.

Over the last 5 games, Flacco has been sacked 17 times and hurried plenty more. Of those 5 opponents only the Steelers blitzed Flacco alot. Most of the other teams relied on 3 and 4 man pressures to get to Joe and were successful mostly because of the online.

So yes i agree with you, it is about execution and decision making, but Joe isn't the only person on the field that applies too.

[berad]

[quote name='reediddy' timestamp='1291924171' post='568340']
Isn't it his duty to call out the blitz pickup? I would assume so, many other QBs do so.
[/quote]

Like codizzle said, it was an Oher-error. The line was supposed to block left, Oher on Polamalu, Grubbs on Harrison, and Rice picking up Timmons. Oher was acting under the original call, blocking right, so he went for Harrison assuming that Rice was going to pick up Polamalu. That didn't happen. Joe got sacked. And here we are.

[thewarden86]

Ben didn't have audibles for a while either. When they're comfortable enough that Flacco can handle running the offense, they will come. He's probably just recently become comfortable with calling his own protection (and no, that sack/fumble was blown by Oher, not Flacco).

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='noy' timestamp='1291922664' post='568305']
Too often people read between the lines without proper cause or without the backing of reasonable logic. This still doesn't disprove my thoughts, because I even have you admitting that my beliefs are possible. Human beings lie all the time in every aspect of life. I view people's speech and try to decipher it, it's just how I am, but I like to think I do it with good logic.

You probably (hopefully) meant shortsighted as opposed to foolish, but you understood the sentence as you define it, not how it is perceived. My initial statement was for the effect of exaggeration, I'm glad you caught it. But do you see what I mean? There are many ways of defining someone's comments because every individual is different in their perceptions. Because there's plausibility for both of our arguments, this discussion is now over how each of us perceive people and what they say.

Since we aren't about to change ourselves because of such a topic, I think we might be wasting our energy,

But seriously, you callin' me a fool? HUH? [size="3"]HUH?[/size]
[/quote]

Yea i understand what you are saying 100%. My point is most times it's your view or opinion of whatever the situation is that somewhat infulences your decision to read between the lines, or even what you interpret as what was said.

If you feel Cam should be fire.......Someone says the offense isn't good right now and it's all 11 guys and coaches to blame. Now you read between the lines that a player is speaking out against Cam.

If for whatever reason you don't like Jared Gaither. He misses practice with an undisclosed injury and people read between the lines that he is faking because he doesn't want to play RT.

He's a 5th round selection of a draft where their were only 2 players selected. He's getting paid like 120,000, but he's playing at a really high level at the LT position. He mentions he would like to be paid and because of who his agent is, people read between the lines and believe that Gaither is holding out or trying to strong arm the Ravens for more money.

The Same with Ray years ago. He's asked a question about if he would even consider playing in Dallas.......the man simple says if they call he would listen(not a direct quote) and people in Baltimore read between the lines and come up with the notion that Ray Lewis no longer wants to be a Raven.

That got so bad people were bashing the heart and soul of this franchise and over what? Because some fans believed that since he didn't say, I want to be in Baltimore and nowhere else that he didn't want to be here at all?

In each one of these cases guys were asked simple questions and gave simple answer, but the people that thought they were not being truthful wanted to read between the lies and read into something that wasn't there. They tried to catch the lie instead of just taken the person for their word.

You even got people right now, that still can't let the Gaither issue go. He says he wants to be a Raven and finish his career in Baltimore. And you still have people saying, well maybe Gaither realized he was wrong. Or maybe Gaither realized that he wouldn't get the kind of money he wants as a free agent. Well here's a crazy idea.......maybe Gaither just simply wants to be in Baltimore and nothing that he's said out of his mouth has disputed that, since day one.

Hell maybe I'm just gullible and still believe that a man says exactly what he means and means exactly what he says.

[1/28/01]

And here we are still talking about a very elementary mistake in pass protection.....it was a missed assignment by Oher; plain and simple!