No Audibles Built Into Cam's Offense - Confirmed By Players

[Perfekt]

Not probally it would destroy the team.

[757RavensFan]

He can be fired. Leave the same system in, just have someone else calling the plays. We've seen instances of a dangerous offense, it's just not consistent. Cam plays not to lose after we get a lead. Cam has the players and the system to have an explosive offense. He also has a very conservative mentality which limits just how explosive the Off can be.

[reediddy]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1291821818' post='567057']
I think this speaks more to Cam wanted to be Pinky and the Brain. It's pretty clear now that the offensive show is all Cam.

I'm not worried about Flacco not calling audibles. But what I hope is happening during the week is that Flacco is giving his input and it is being used to formulate a winning gameplan. I hope Flacco just isn't sitting back waiting to hear the next call on game day. A great QB is one who watches the film and gives valuable input into what they see, what he feels he can accomplish and that gets incorporated into the gameplan.
[/quote]

I'm not necessarily worried about Flacco's lack of audibles because we are 8-4. 4-8, then it's a different story. However what I am concerned about is Flacco's pre-snap reads. Rarely have I ever seen him communicate to his OL before the snap (a la Brady) pointing out who to pick up on the blitz. I feel he is looking only into the secondary, which could be deciphered as him having that much trust in his OL. But honestly, to have success, you have to help out your teammates when there is pressure coming in. Even if the OL already knows who to pick up, still call it out. That would've helped immensely against Polamalu.

(Note: Every criticism of Flacco/Ravens offensive line is going to be held in context of that one play)

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='757RavensFan' timestamp='1291840015' post='567293']
He can be fired. Leave the same system in, just have someone else calling the plays. We've seen instances of a dangerous offense, it's just not consistent. Cam plays not to lose after we get a lead. Cam has the players and the system to have an explosive offense. He also has a very conservative mentality which limits just how explosive the Off can be.
[/quote]

It's not going to happen. No matter how much the fans, players and coaches feel the offense is underachieving, you don't fire the OC of an 8-4 team.

[gabefergy]

There is definitely blame to be given to Cam, but the O-line, Joe, Dickson, Rice all have some blame as well. Its a team game, 1 play didn't lose the game. Too many missed opportunites on offense lost the game. That is on the whole offense, not just Cam

[bpytnjr58]

I can see disgrunted fans calling Cameron out and nothing is done but when some of the players on the offense question him makes you wonder what Harbaugh thinking. Time after time you see other teams making changes on defense and Cam goes "AS IS". As Boldin stated "There is no reason why we can't score 30 points a game". Definitely need an OC that is a custom fit with this talent.

[ravens13]

Cam does not have to be fired now, and he shouldn't be this late in the year. He does need to be told to give Joe the option of changing the play on every play or else he will not be back next year. I don't have a problem with us firing him after that, and if that doesn't work I think he should be fired, but at this point the best option is to give Joe more control of the offense for the remainder of the season.

[reediddy]

[quote name='ravens13' timestamp='1291842076' post='567345']
Cam does not have to be fired now, and he shouldn't be this late in the year. He does need to be told to give Joe the option of changing the play on every play or else he will not be back next year. I don't have a problem with us firing him after that, and if that doesn't work I think he should be fired, but at this point the best option is to give Joe more control of the offense for the remainder of the season.
[/quote]

I'm just imagining Cam coming onto this thread and reading your post and just having a revelation. Watch as Flacco throws 6 TDs Monday

[ravens13]

Even if it's not said explicitly, giving Joe more control of the offense is in Cam's best interest. Right now he is the subject of more complaints than anyone. He is losing the players. Look at what happened to Billick when players spoke out. I think Joe will succeed if given more control, but if he doesn't, at least Cam will have someone else to take some of the blame off of him. Alternatively if Joe succeeds, everyone will be happy that Cam adjusted and things are going well. Either way he's in a better position to keep his job after this season than the position he's in now.

No matter how well, or poorly, Joe performs the fans and the media will legitimately wonder how much better he could be without Cam's handcuffs.

[JO_75]

[quote name='Milton145' timestamp='1291837967' post='567265']
Well if we were to fire Cam now what would we do? Have Zorn be OC?
[/quote]

I'm 50/50 on this. I been thinking of what would happen if the Ravens did fire Cam and gave the OC job to Zorn. With the way Cam calls plays, it wouldn't be that bad as well Zorn has been here all year so he would know some plays and would be able to take over with really no problem. Now if they don't hey that's fine too but when we are barely squeaking by the Chiefs/Jags in the WC round it will be sad because neither Chiefs/Jags are that good.

Cam Cameron is single handily costing us a run at the Super Bowl with his conservative play calling.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1291844804' post='567408']
I'm 50/50 on this. I been thinking of what would happen if the Ravens did fire Cam and gave the OC job to Zorn. With the way Cam calls plays, it wouldn't be that bad as well Zorn has been here all year so he would know some plays and would be able to take over with really no problem. Now if they don't hey that's fine too but when we are barely squeaking by the Chiefs/Jags in the WC round it will be sad because neither Chiefs/Jags are that good.

[b]Cam Cameron is single handily costing us a run at the Super Bowl with his conservative play calling.[/b]
[/quote]

That's taking it too far in my opinion. He's hurting the team in some ways but the Ravens aren't flawless personnel-wise.

[dan21236]

Ravensfan23 .. great post.

I mentioned on a different thread that the offense breaks the huddle with approximately 8 or 9 seconds to snap the ball. No time to read the defense. Maybe it's not necessary to read the defense if there is no audable.

The defense is watching the play clock going down to 1 or 2 seconds and they know we have to snap the ball. This gives them an edge on the O-Iine.

I would love to see them get out of the huddle faster and keep the D guessing when we are going to snap the ball.

[DrMoonTooth]

I'm not sure whether Flacco has a few audibles when he stands under center or not, but I feel like if he did, he's smart enough to keep plays like the Polamalu strip from happening. Everyone and their Grandma saw him coming (or at least I did). If Joe isn't being allowed to shift protections, audible, change routes, etc. then I have a problem with Cam Cameron's offensive philosophy.

[Milton145]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1291845663' post='567428']
That's taking it too far in my opinion. He's hurting the team in some ways but the Ravens aren't flawless personnel-wise.
[/quote]

Well it's gonna slowly come back to bite us in the playoffs.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Milton145' timestamp='1291847180' post='567472']
Well it's gonna slowly come back to bite us in the playoffs.
[/quote]

I hope you're wrong.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='DrMoonTooth' timestamp='1291846428' post='567454']
I'm not sure whether Flacco has a few audibles when he stands under center or not, but I feel like if he did, he's smart enough to keep plays like the Polamalu strip from happening. Everyone and their Grandma saw him coming (or at least I did). If Joe isn't being allowed to shift protections, audible, change routes, etc. then I have a problem with Cam Cameron's offensive philosophy.
[/quote]

Even if Joe was allowed to change plays or protection, the play would have still resulted in the same way. Why because the protection was actually perfect. 10 guys on that play did their job and only Micheal Oher didn't.

The Steelers had 4 guys on the LOS. Timmons and Troy walked up to the line late(with perfect timing i should add), and as Troy did, James Harrison shifted from directly over Oher's face into position in the gap between he and Grubbs.

Once Harrison shifted, it's Oher's responsibility to identify the threat of an outside rusher. Once Harrison shifted down the line, both Birk and Grubbs handled it well. They blocked out with, Birk blocking the guy that was lined up over Grubbs and Grubbs blocking Harrison. However, Oher still maintained his initial responsiblity of blocking Harrison and crashed down the line to double team Harrison instead of doing the same as his Guard and Center and blocking out to account for Troy.

[url="http:http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010120513/2010/REG13/steelers@ravens#tab:watch//"]Watch Here[/url]

This wasn't Cam or the lack of allowing Flacco to change plays or protections. It was a case of 10 guys doing their job and one guy not, and that cost us dearly.

[Corvus]

All the talk of giving the playcalling duties to Zorn if Cam were to be fired. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Why is Al Saunders not more involved in the offensive playcalling? We go out and hire him as a "consultant" but the fact that the media and other forum members here seem to not realize he is on the staff should tell us that he isn't too involved in this. Not trying to sound like John Madden, but here's a guy with tons of offensive coaching experience from head coaching to position coaching (some of that being SUPER BOWL winning coaching). If there is a o-coordinator shake-up, Al is the guy I wanna see getting a chance to utilize our talented personnel.

[XxSizzleXx]

That just seems kind of ridiculous.

[D_UP]

Cam is a joke, guy doesn't seem to watch the game and call plays based on real time, he seem to say ok here's the plays I will regardless of what's working and what's not. I really don't like this guy's inability to be flexible his ego is out of control.

[cursona pirate]

i have a feeling this might hurt or end a game in the playoffs because of this! When flacco runs the no huddle he is really good has anyone else noticed?

[cursona pirate]

[quote name='DrMoonTooth' timestamp='1291846428' post='567454']
I'm not sure whether Flacco has a few audibles when he stands under center or not, but I feel like if he did, he's smart enough to keep plays like the Polamalu strip from happening. Everyone and their Grandma saw him coming (or at least I did). If Joe isn't being allowed to shift protections, audible, change routes, etc. then I have a problem with Cam Cameron's offensive philosophy.
[/quote]
its kinda like rock paper scizzors! you cant change it once you play it!

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1291820803' post='567039']
I don't think this is as big of a deal as it seems. I heard Chris Cooley saying that Donovan McNabb never changes the play at the line of scrimmage. In fact Chris said he's never had a Redskins team that has. That's a mulitple Pro-Bowl QB.

I think you have a very small amount of QBs that do change calls at times (Manning, Brady, Brees). You also have a lot of QBs that look like they are changing plays (but they are just doing the motions)(Rodgers, Ryan, Manning Eli). Then you have QBs who call what is given.

Its Cam's style. Personally I don't like it, but I don't think its the end of the world.
[/quote]


You know you are talking the redskins right... and please don't talk about Mcnabb as an excuse to justify Cams audible, Mcnabb is no where near pro-bowl talent anymore.

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

Flacco needs tempo, period. Play comes in late, delay of game. I remember Harbs had the play clock set to 25 seconds in camp a couple years ago to help Joe, whatever happened to that? Maybe Cam doesn't think that fast anymore?

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='bpytnjr58' timestamp='1291841654' post='567332']
I can see disgrunted fans calling Cameron out and nothing is done but when some of the players on the offense question him makes you wonder what Harbaugh thinking. Time after time you see other teams making changes on defense and Cam goes "AS IS". As Boldin stated "There is no reason why we can't score 30 points a game". Definitely need an OC that is a custom fit with this talent.
[/quote]
Well the fact that those players are talking about this issue right now as opposed to earlier in the season gives me a glimmer of hope that Cam changes something really soon. Didn't he let Joe call some of his own plays in the Panthers game?

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

Really what we are talking about here is that basically Joe is a mindless Robot or a Puppet concerning this Offense. Will he ever become a true leader with this lack of QB input?

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='cursona pirate' timestamp='1291857187' post='567627']
i have a feeling this might hurt or end a game in the playoffs because of this! When flacco runs the no huddle he is really good has anyone else noticed?
[/quote]
Absolutely to both those things

[berad]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1291865108' post='567739']
You know you are talking the redskins right... and please don't talk about Mcnabb as an excuse to justify Cams audible, Mcnabb is no where near pro-bowl talent anymore.
[/quote]

Really? Because McNabb went to the Pro Bowl last year. Don't confuse being surrounded by the hapless Redskins as a lack of talent on McNabb's part.

[noy]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1291838838' post='567278']
Are you 100% sure about that. I give Cam all the blame he deserves but if you or anyone else think that execution isn't the problem or at least one of them, then you're sadly mistaken.

Just looking at this Steelers game alone. With the ball on our own 22, 3rd down and 8, Cam calls an aggressive play that has Dickson wide open for what would have been a huge play and gotten us out to mid-field at least. Result? Dickson drops the ball.

After a 35 yard punt return from Webb that had us a mid-field, Cam calls a play that has Pitta wide open down the field, that would have resulted in at least a 30 yard gain if not a TD. Reslut? Flacco over throws him.

After a huge interception, that allowed the Ravens took keep momentum and the lead. The offense is backed up at the 2 yardline. Cam calls 2 runs that gets the offense a little breathing room. On 3rd and 6 from the 6, Cam calls another aggressive play that has the fastest guy on our offense streaking down field behind the defense. Reslut? Stallworth catches the ball and 67 yards latter the Ravens offense is in business at the Steelers 27 yardline.

Now for whatever reason, Flacco underthrow Stallworth. Was it the wind, or just Flacco i don't know and don't really care, but instead of having a 94 yard TD, the Ravens have a 1-10 on the Steelers 27. What happens from there, Oher false start, Rice loses 2 yard on 2nd and 13, and on 3rd and 15 Flacco is sacked for an 11 yard loss. Result Ravens miss a perfect opportunity to at least go up by 10 points if not 14.

Now there are plenty of situations in this game where Cam just made what seemed to be poor calls at poor times. The reserve being one, and the decision to throw 3 straight passes on 1st and goal instead of going jumbo and playing smash mouth football. I don't even blame the fumble on Cam. Because if you look at the replay, the play design was prefect and Dickson was open for what would have been a 1st down, with under 3 minutes left on the clock Now even if we don't run the clock out with another first down, we punt deep and force the Steelers to drive the length of the field. However again the execution of the play was off. Troy P walks up to the line late, and instead of Oher dropping back into a pass pro set, he crashes down the line to double team Harrison. Troy P times the snap and on a 3 step drop gets to Flacco before he throws the ball.

The Ravens offense had 5 possessions where they either started at mid-field or moved the ball across mid-field and into the redzone, not including the TD drive, and we came away with a grand total of 3 points. If the Offense is able to get at least FGs, that's 15 points on top of the 7 we scored. 22 points wins that game hands down.

I don't have a problem with the defense speaking out because they played their butts off, even though they had a few noticeable mistake, but for the most part they played well enough to win and dominate that game. However, before some of these offensive players stand up at the podium and go on talk shows speaking out, they might want to look in the mirror.

It's gonna take a group effort with coaches and players to fix the problems we are having on offense.

If people want to place the sole blame on Cam that's fine, it's your right as a fan and a person. However this offense is like a luxury car and Cam is like the engine of that car. You can have the nicest car known to man, and have the best engine possible. However if the surrounding parts aren't preforming up to their highest potential, that engine has to work harder then it's supposed to and will get run down. So instead of improving on a few minor things like, spark plugs, fuel pump, etc, you end up spending major money to get your engine repaired when it could have easily being avoided by improving the surrounding parts, so that they perform up to their highest potential.

Now that might not have been the greatest comparison, but the point is. The oline has to block better, the WRs have to run better routes and make the plays that are there to be made, we have to stop getting stupid penalties that cost us important yards, Flacco has to take advantage of the opportunity to make plays when they are there and not overthrow or under-throw guys so much, backs have to be more consistent with picking up the blitz. Troy P's sack fumble, and Flacco's short hop on 4th and 2 will probably be the most notable plays as to why we lost the Steelers game. However there were 5-10 plays that are just inexcusable for a Superbowl contending team in a huge game. In those 5-10 plays the surrounding part of this offensive engine didn't do their part and as a result this luxury car that is the Ravens offense only scored 10 points. Despite countless opportunities to score more.

The [b]Ravens[/b] missed a grand opportunity to set themselves apart from the rest of the AFC teams and be dead locked into a battle with the Pats to be one of the superior teams in the AFC. There is no reason why that game shouldn't have been a 24-6 win for the Ravens and a dominate performance. Right now Cam isn't performing up to the standards we've set for him, but neither is a majority of the players on offense. People say Cam needs to take the cuffs off Flacco, well imo he did in that Steelers game, and much like Cam, the pieces around Flacco didn't hold up their end of the bargain. Yea Flacco missed a few throws, but he has no control over dropped balls, lack of protection, holding, and stupid penalties. Everybody has to step up and take their share of the blame for what is going on with this offense, and if the players stoop so low as to single Cam out as the sole reason for the offensive struggles then i feel bad about the direction of this proud franchise moving forward.
[/quote]

Good argument, but I still have to go with the players on this. There are other factors that contribute to the idea of poor performances that don't just rely on the players themselves; the player may have the physical attributes to complete the job, but if their head isn't in it, it can have an effect on performance (and when it comes to game-time discipline, there are many reasons why it may not be in place). But like I said, speculation and guesswork doesn't hold as much weight against the opinions of the players themselves, including my aforementioned argument.

Funny how you somewhat brushed aside the opinions of the defensive players, because if anybody has an outside (being defensive players) but also inside (being Ravens players) perspective of the situation, it's them. And it's not like the offensive guys have a history of whining about their coaches (without due cause, ahem, Billick). They are professionals and seasoned vets (all of whom have experienced other offensive systems) and hold anybody who should be held responsible accountable, including themselves. If they were young brash guys, I'd agree, but their history doesn't point to unfounded accusation.

Until those same players come back and say, "It was the heat of the moment, we just played a poor game" I'll have to stay firmly on the position that Cam is the biggest problem between this offenses incapability at taking the next step to being elite (or even just great). The fans have been questioning Cam's playcalling for a while now (which usually doesn't hold much weight), but when the players come out and quietly criticize...I don't believe in coincidences.

Also, things like penalties are a coaching issue. Oher has been doing this for multiple games; why aren't they on him about slowing down his jump? He has quick feet, he doesn't need the extra risk of anticipating the count. He's also got to understand that his reaction time and Matt Birk's reaction time are different...

I just don't think Cam is the right fit for this offense, and I think he is the root cause of everything we are seeing, in some way or another. I can't prove it, but it's what I believe.

[FerrariFan87]

Audibles or not, it isn't working, so something (or someone) needs to change.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL' timestamp='1291865638' post='567756']
Really what we are talking about here is that basically Joe is a mindless Robot or a Puppet concerning this Offense. Will he ever become a true leader with this lack of QB input?
[/quote]

And you know Joe has no input how? How exactly does any of us know what goes on at the castle?

What player came out with the exact Quote that Cam is the problem? Every quote i've heard from players is an overall concern and problem with the offense as a whole.

You look at what Mason said after the game, and he continued to mention that it's all 11 guys plus the guys on the side and the coaches. He talked about how the players have to be more consistent over 4 quarters.

We as fans hear this and call ourselves reading between the lines and coming up with the conclusion that they are speaking out against Cam.

Boldin says there is no reason we can score 30 points a game. Well the Ravens had 4 possessions where they managed to get the ball to at least the 30 yard line of the Steelers and 2 other drives that started at the 49 and 48 yard line respectively. That's a total of 6 scoring opportunities, the Ravens only took advantage of 2 of them and that resulted in 10 points.

Those 4 missed opportunities ended like this.

1. With 13:00 on the clock in the 2nd quarter, the Ravens get the ball on the 49 yardline after a stop by the defense and a huge 35 yard punt return by Webb. Flacco misses a wide open Pitta down the field that would have been at least a 30 yard gain. At that point even a FG would have given us a 10 point lead, and crazy momentum. Instead we punt.

2. The very next offensive possession with 9:52 on the clock, the Ravens get the ball back on the 2 yard line after a huge INT from the defense. Flacco completes a 67 yard pass to Stallworth down to the 27 yardline. After a 2 yard gain what happens......Oher is whistled for a false start, Rice losses 2 yards and Flacco is sacked for 11 yards. Ravens punt.

3. After trading scores in the 3rd quarter, the Ravens get the ball back in the 4th quarter on the 48 yardline with 9:46 on the clock, a 10-6 lead and a chance to put the game away. The Ravens pick up 4 yards on 1st and 2nd down and on 3rd and 6, Flacco has he pass knocked down at the LOS.

4. With 2:51 left on the clock and down by 3, the Ravens get the ball back with a chance to tie or win. They drive the ball all the way down the field and get about 5 yards away from being in FG range. Flacco short hops a throw to Dickson and the game ends.

That's 4 wasted opportunities, not to mention getting the ball to the 6 yard line and having to settle for 3. If the offense is able to take advantage of at least 2 of those opportunities with 2TDs and add another FG, that's 24 points and more then enough to put this game away.

The Ravens players can blame themselves as much as anyone for not performing up to their potential and from the quotes I've seen this week they have taken that blame. It will truely take a team effort to fix the offense right now.