No Audibles Built Into Cam's Offense - Confirmed By Players

[CNC]

Willis McGahee was on 105.7 The Fan last night. did anyone else catch any of this? Lots of folks were calling in and expressing the same concerns that everyone else on this board has. What McGahee said during his responses was very, very telling. The main thing he talked about, and he said it MULTIPLE times in MULTIPLE ways is.....

There is NO changing the plays at the line in Cameron's offense. McGahee talked about that an awful lot. Basically, Cam calls the plays and the players have to go with what he says....even Joe. The way he talked, there are NO audibles built into this offensive system.

Later in the show, Dante Stallworth was also a guest and backed up McGahee on the comments about the play calling. While they didn't directly throw Cameron under the bus, they (mainly McGahee) made it VERY clear that that don't agree with much of the play calling and there's no way around it because there's nothing built in to make the change. It actually became kind of funny at points. One caller pointed out that most of the time McGahee is in the game, it's a running play. McGahee's comment? "You're right."

[Kwothdaraven]

Cam cameron is pathetic. Is this peewee? what the heck. Flacco should get the o together and setup a system himself

[Brit_Ravens_Fan]

I think most people who have not jumped all over Joe as soon a mistake is made on offence had a hunch that this was the case

i was made up when we brought cam in now i cant stand his play calling or the way he runs this offence

he needs to go sorry cam but we know Joe and co can do better and you are holding them back

[Kwothdaraven]

Just look at how great brees and rivers became as soon as cam left. Flacco has actually been better than both of them in his first 3 years, comparatively

[Tiznut]

Wasn't long ago when harbs and flacco both said the opposite. It came up after the failed qb sneak in the ne game

[Rinbee]

Horray for McGahee and Stalworth coming out with this information. Looks like they won't be Ravens next year. Harbs may need a bigger doghouse by the end of the season.

It has always been my hunch that Cam is too full of himself to let a QB change the play. On the other hand with Flacco still growing in experience it is possible there is some concern about giving him too much responsibility. Players need to stand up on the field in very obvious situations. On the play when Flacco fumbled SOMEONE - a player or coach - should have seen what was coming and at least called TO to regroup. The fact that the team does not react to very obvious problems at critial times shows the inflexibility of the staff primarily. Maybe someone should remind Cam and Harbs that the expression "There is no I in team" applies to coaches too!

[Tiznut]

http://blogs.baltimoreravens.com/2010/10/18/flacco-had-audibles-on-qb-sneak/

Says that while cam feels audibles are overrated and flacco does it less now than he used to the ability to option every play is there

[AsianRice]

The Falcons admitted they didn't give Ryan the control of the offense. When they played against us, they gave Ryan the full control of the offense, and look what Ryan did to us. On the other hand, Joe was still in Cam's cage. Cam needs to go....

[True]

This loss has really hurt the players psyche and many ugly truths are coming out about the coaching staff. I hope Harbaugh can rally this team because the frustration is mounting and becoming public.

[ravensfan160]

[quote name='Tiznut' timestamp='1291818673' post='567013']
http://blogs.baltimoreravens.com/2010/10/18/flacco-had-audibles-on-qb-sneak/

Says that while cam feels audibles are overrated and flacco does it less now than he used to the ability to option every play is there
[/quote]
I remember reading that article when it came out. But that and what the players are saying can't both be true.

[PuRock]

I don't think this is as big of a deal as it seems. I heard Chris Cooley saying that Donovan McNabb never changes the play at the line of scrimmage. In fact Chris said he's never had a Redskins team that has. That's a mulitple Pro-Bowl QB.

I think you have a very small amount of QBs that do change calls at times (Manning, Brady, Brees). You also have a lot of QBs that look like they are changing plays (but they are just doing the motions)(Rodgers, Ryan, Manning Eli). Then you have QBs who call what is given.

Its Cam's style. Personally I don't like it, but I don't think its the end of the world.

[ravensgirl20]

[quote name='Tiznut' timestamp='1291818673' post='567013']
http://blogs.baltimoreravens.com/2010/10/18/flacco-had-audibles-on-qb-sneak/

Says that while cam feels audibles are overrated and flacco does it less now than he used to the ability to option every play is there
[/quote]

I'm going to be very honest now. When that statement was released back in October it seemed off to me. I gave it the benefit of the doubt though it didn't sit well with me at the time. Now with the latest interview it seems to confirm what many have been concerned about for a while now. It's not just one player but two who are speaking out. I don't know that is very telling to me.

(PuRock thanks for your take on things. I appreciated the way you explained it.)

[Tiznut]

It could simply mean in certain situations flacco shouldn't be calling audibles.

Whether it's an audible or the called play the team has to execute and that us the real problem.blaming it on flacco not being allowed to audible covers up the real issue.

[PuRock]

I think this speaks more to Cam wanted to be Pinky and the Brain. It's pretty clear now that the offensive show is all Cam.

I'm not worried about Flacco not calling audibles. But what I hope is happening during the week is that Flacco is giving his input and it is being used to formulate a winning gameplan. I hope Flacco just isn't sitting back waiting to hear the next call on game day. A great QB is one who watches the film and gives valuable input into what they see, what he feels he can accomplish and that gets incorporated into the gameplan.

[darklight1216]

[quote name='Tiznut' timestamp='1291817941' post='567007']
Wasn't long ago when harbs and flacco both said the opposite. It came up after the failed qb sneak in the ne game
[/quote]
I remember Harbs saying that Flacco could have opted out of that sneak, but the only comment from Flacco that I recall came after the Panthers game.

[quote]"Nope, not true," said Flacco. "That ain't happening. I can change out of some plays, but I definitely didn't call my own plays."[/quote]
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-preston-ravens-panthers-1122-20101121,0,3038666.column

Mr. Audibles-are-overrated agrees.

[quote]Everybody would be very surprised if they knew all of the options and decisions that Joe is making while he's out there. We're just not going to let everybody know what we're doing.[/quote]
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-ravens-qa-cameron-1124-20101123,0,494298.story

[quote]"That has not been done," he said. "We don't do that. Joe knows how to read defenses. He knows he has multiple options."[/quote]
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bs-sp-ravens-1022-20101021,0,2567285.story?page=2

[CorvusCorax]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1291821818' post='567057']
I think this speaks more to Cam wanted to be Pinky and the Brain. It's pretty clear now that the offensive show is all Cam.

I'm not worried about Flacco not calling audibles. But what I hope is happening during the week is that Flacco is giving his input and it is being used to formulate a winning gameplan. I hope Flacco just isn't sitting back waiting to hear the next call on game day. A great QB is one who watches the film and gives valuable input into what they see, what he feels he can accomplish and that gets incorporated into the gameplan.
[/quote]

This is exactly how I feel. Hopefully management does something to fix the issue.

[funky141]

If Cam is not letting Flacco read the defense and make any adjustments if needed he (Cam) needs to go. A good NFL QB needs to be able to read and correct at the line or scrimmage.

[Rinbee]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1291820803' post='567039']
I don't think this is as big of a deal as it seems. I heard Chris Cooley saying that Donovan McNabb never changes the play at the line of scrimmage. In fact Chris said he's never had a Redskins team that has. That's a mulitple Pro-Bowl QB.

[b]I think you have a very small amount of QBs that do change calls at times [/b](Manning, Brady, Brees). You also have a lot of QBs that look like they are changing plays (but they are just doing the motions)(Rodgers, Ryan, Manning Eli). Then you have QBs who call what is given.

[b]Its Cam's style. Personally I don't like it, but I don't think its the end of the world.[/b][/quote]


Rational view, but while true audibles may be or need to be a small percentage of plays, the few times we seemed to not do it in critical situations have really bitten us in the butt. There needs to be an understanding and trust between coach and player of which situations are critical in a game and when Joe and company can have free reign to change a play or call a TO. I don't get the sense there is that level of trust todya.

[Finally]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1291820803' post='567039']
I think you have a very small amount of QBs that do change calls at times (Manning, Brady, Brees). You also have a lot of QBs that look like they are changing plays (but they are just doing the motions)(Rodgers, Ryan, Manning Eli). Then you have QBs who call what is given.

[/quote]


Where do you get that Ryan changing the plays is smoke and mirrors? You can very clearly see them passing his audibles down the line in a no-huddle. You can definitely hear him when he kills his first option after a huddle.

[PuRock]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1291827393' post='567110']
Where do you get that Ryan changing the plays is smoke and mirrors? You can very clearly see them passing his audibles down the line in a no-huddle. You can definitely hear him when he kills his first option after a huddle.
[/quote]

I don't know if he is or isn't. I'm just taking a opinionated guess. The only way you can truly tell if an audible is "actually" being called in a game is to be a part of the huddle. Because most of everything seen on the field is smoke and mirrors. Just ways to disguise the actual playcall itself.

[noy]

So that makes four players (Mason, Suggs, Stallworth and McGahee) taking jabs at the way the offense is currently being managed. The problem is definitely NOT execution, as we have all seen our players show as much brilliance as the best passing offenses in the league. The discomfort is all stemming from the same place, and that place is Cam's offensive management skills. I certainly don't think Bisciotti believes in coincidences; when the players were turning on Billick, he was out of here even though Steve told him earlier in the season that he wouldn't fire him.

Players words speak louder than theory and guesswork. Especially when the performance ceiling is known to be as high as anybody else in the league.

[ravens13]

After I cooled down from the last game, I came to the opinion that I am glad we lost and I'm glad how we lost. It will be good for us during the end of the season if changes are made because of it. Only the superbowl matters. Cameron has been holding back Joe and the offense all season and hopefully after Sunday night Harbaugh had a talk with Cameron forcing him to make significant changes, specifically in giving Joe the green light to audible on any play. His job is on the line and I think (hope) that the last game forced Harbaugh to make that clear to Cameron.

[JoeCool#5]

[quote name='CNC' timestamp='1291812532' post='566979']
Willis McGahee was on 105.7 The Fan last night. did anyone else catch any of this? Lots of folks were calling in and expressing the same concerns that everyone else on this board has. What McGahee said during his responses was very, very telling. The main thing he talked about, and he said it MULTIPLE times in MULTIPLE ways is.....

There is NO changing the plays at the line in Cameron's offense. McGahee talked about that an awful lot. Basically, Cam calls the plays and the players have to go with what he says....even Joe. The way he talked, there are NO audibles built into this offensive system.

Later in the show, Dante Stallworth was also a guest and backed up McGahee on the comments about the play calling. While they didn't directly throw Cameron under the bus, they (mainly McGahee) made it VERY clear that that don't agree with much of the play calling and there's no way around it because there's nothing built in to make the change. It actually became kind of funny at points. One caller pointed out that most of the time McGahee is in the game, it's a running play. McGahee's comment? "You're right."
[/quote]
Sounds like Cam is losing the locker room. Might be time for a change Harbs.

[TSizzle00]

[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1291818810' post='567014']
The Falcons admitted they didn't give Ryan the control of the offense. When they played against us, they gave Ryan the full control of the offense, and look what Ryan did to us. On the other hand, Joe was still in Cam's cage. Cam needs to go....
[/quote]
and in Cams cage he STILL brought the Ravens back in a position to win it! Just unleash him!

[Finally]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1291827989' post='567118']
I don't know if he is or isn't. I'm just taking a opinionated guess. The only way you can truly tell if an audible is "actually" being called in a game is to be a part of the huddle. Because most of everything seen on the field is smoke and mirrors. Just ways to disguise the actual playcall itself.
[/quote]



You are right that some of that probably does go on but Ryan actually puts his players in position and in loud stadiums if they fail to hear him and are not in position he calls a time out.

Besides the fact that I have seen analysts show the places where Ryan changes the play the other evidence is that he is always in the running with Brees, Brady, and Manning on being the best 3rd down QBs in the league.

[Militant X 1]

willis is now what.....the 4th Ravens player to come out and be truthful about the offensive playcalling? wow! he definately won't be the last! it is quite clear to see that this loss to the steelers (a game in which the Ravens should have won and put away if the offense scored more than 10 pts)has FINALLY brought the truth to the surface.

and that truth?

Cam Cameron's play-calling is atrocious!

[Milton145]

Well if we were to fire Cam now what would we do? Have Zorn be OC?

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='noy' timestamp='1291828468' post='567120']
So that makes four players (Mason, Suggs, Stallworth and McGahee) taking jabs at the way the offense is currently being managed. [b]The problem is definitely NOT execution, as we have all seen our players show as much brilliance as the best passing offenses in the league[/b]. The discomfort is all stemming from the same place, and that place is Cam's offensive management skills. I certainly don't think Bisciotti believes in coincidences; when the players were turning on Billick, he was out of here even though Steve told him earlier in the season that he wouldn't fire him.

Players words speak louder than theory and guesswork. Especially when the performance ceiling is known to be as high as anybody else in the league.
[/quote]

Are you 100% sure about that. I give Cam all the blame he deserves but if you or anyone else think that execution isn't the problem or at least one of them, then you're sadly mistaken.

Just looking at this Steelers game alone. With the ball on our own 22, 3rd down and 8, Cam calls an aggressive play that has Dickson wide open for what would have been a huge play and gotten us out to mid-field at least. Result? Dickson drops the ball.

After a 35 yard punt return from Webb that had us a mid-field, Cam calls a play that has Pitta wide open down the field, that would have resulted in at least a 30 yard gain if not a TD. Reslut? Flacco over throws him.

After a huge interception, that allowed the Ravens took keep momentum and the lead. The offense is backed up at the 2 yardline. Cam calls 2 runs that gets the offense a little breathing room. On 3rd and 6 from the 6, Cam calls another aggressive play that has the fastest guy on our offense streaking down field behind the defense. Reslut? Stallworth catches the ball and 67 yards latter the Ravens offense is in business at the Steelers 27 yardline.

Now for whatever reason, Flacco underthrow Stallworth. Was it the wind, or just Flacco i don't know and don't really care, but instead of having a 94 yard TD, the Ravens have a 1-10 on the Steelers 27. What happens from there, Oher false start, Rice loses 2 yard on 2nd and 13, and on 3rd and 15 Flacco is sacked for an 11 yard loss. Result Ravens miss a perfect opportunity to at least go up by 10 points if not 14.

Now there are plenty of situations in this game where Cam just made what seemed to be poor calls at poor times. The reserve being one, and the decision to throw 3 straight passes on 1st and goal instead of going jumbo and playing smash mouth football. I don't even blame the fumble on Cam. Because if you look at the replay, the play design was prefect and Dickson was open for what would have been a 1st down, with under 3 minutes left on the clock Now even if we don't run the clock out with another first down, we punt deep and force the Steelers to drive the length of the field. However again the execution of the play was off. Troy P walks up to the line late, and instead of Oher dropping back into a pass pro set, he crashes down the line to double team Harrison. Troy P times the snap and on a 3 step drop gets to Flacco before he throws the ball.

The Ravens offense had 5 possessions where they either started at mid-field or moved the ball across mid-field and into the redzone, not including the TD drive, and we came away with a grand total of 3 points. If the Offense is able to get at least FGs, that's 15 points on top of the 7 we scored. 22 points wins that game hands down.

I don't have a problem with the defense speaking out because they played their butts off, even though they had a few noticeable mistake, but for the most part they played well enough to win and dominate that game. However, before some of these offensive players stand up at the podium and go on talk shows speaking out, they might want to look in the mirror.

It's gonna take a group effort with coaches and players to fix the problems we are having on offense.

If people want to place the sole blame on Cam that's fine, it's your right as a fan and a person. However this offense is like a luxury car and Cam is like the engine of that car. You can have the nicest car known to man, and have the best engine possible. However if the surrounding parts aren't preforming up to their highest potential, that engine has to work harder then it's supposed to and will get run down. So instead of improving on a few minor things like, spark plugs, fuel pump, etc, you end up spending major money to get your engine repaired when it could have easily being avoided by improving the surrounding parts, so that they perform up to their highest potential.

Now that might not have been the greatest comparison, but the point is. The oline has to block better, the WRs have to run better routes and make the plays that are there to be made, we have to stop getting stupid penalties that cost us important yards, Flacco has to take advantage of the opportunity to make plays when they are there and not overthrow or under-throw guys so much, backs have to be more consistent with picking up the blitz. Troy P's sack fumble, and Flacco's short hop on 4th and 2 will probably be the most notable plays as to why we lost the Steelers game. However there were 5-10 plays that are just inexcusable for a Superbowl contending team in a huge game. In those 5-10 plays the surrounding part of this offensive engine didn't do their part and as a result this luxury car that is the Ravens offense only scored 10 points. Despite countless opportunities to score more.

The [b]Ravens[/b] missed a grand opportunity to set themselves apart from the rest of the AFC teams and be dead locked into a battle with the Pats to be one of the superior teams in the AFC. There is no reason why that game shouldn't have been a 24-6 win for the Ravens and a dominate performance. Right now Cam isn't performing up to the standards we've set for him, but neither is a majority of the players on offense. People say Cam needs to take the cuffs off Flacco, well imo he did in that Steelers game, and much like Cam, the pieces around Flacco didn't hold up their end of the bargain. Yea Flacco missed a few throws, but he has no control over dropped balls, lack of protection, holding, and stupid penalties. Everybody has to step up and take their share of the blame for what is going on with this offense, and if the players stoop so low as to single Cam out as the sole reason for the offensive struggles then i feel bad about the direction of this proud franchise moving forward.

[Perfekt]

I dont want him fired until after the season. We cant just switch OC halfway thru the season and expect to go to the superbowl it takes time to learn a new system. Im not happy with the man but use some logic here.

[RL52TheGreatest]

[quote name='Milton145' timestamp='1291837967' post='567265']
Well if we were to fire Cam now what would we do? Have Zorn be OC?
[/quote]
I highly doubt we fire Cam this season with only 4 games left (not including playoffs). Making a change now would probably hurt the team more than anything.