It's Clear: Mattison Is Far Better Than Given Credit For

[Bltravens]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1291890425' post='567979']
Exactly and I knew who made this thread without looking at the name,lol. I would like to see what Mattison would do with a team like the Bills. Having two future HOFs and arguably the two greatest players to ever play their respective position along with the baddest D- Lineman and OLB on the planet makes life much easier for Matty. I'm willing to bet that Ed and Ray put more insight into Mattys playcalling than he does ( sort of like Peyton Manning with his O- Coordinator..... they are basically coaches on the field ).

Nevertheless, I like how our D has played the past month and using Mattys scheme I feel will pay off more in the long run ( yea, I said it and it has nothing to do with NE thrashing of the Jets,LOL ). Now, I feel at times that Matty will have to get a lil Rex Ryan in his scheming. Suggs is str8 beasting.
[/quote]
Wouldnt that correlate both ways though, dont you wonder what the Bills would be like with Rex's system, and how good of a DC he'd look there? We already saw how Rex's system was when we didnt have any corners in 07 and the end result wasnt very good. But I agree with your last part, until we get a new CMac we'll forever have to play a 2 under, cov 2 style defense with minimal blitzing.

Ps to Noy...we zone blitz quite alot, its Mattison's way of bringing pressure while still having a safety overtop for the corners.

[flynismo]

[quote name='noy' timestamp='1291911824' post='568162']<br />I think the baseline of my comments is that &quot;organized chaos&quot; is just another method toward playing defense. You think LeBeau didn't see the riskiness of the zone blitz when he incorporated it into his defense? Big risk, but big reward.<br /><br />The biggest difference between Matty and Rex (last time I bring up his name!) is exactly that, the riskiness of the defense. Matty's style is safe, relying more on one on one matchups to be great. But I came in during the chaos period, and when it was so dominant I might add. It's a frustrating feeling when the defense looks completely different and there had been little to no pressure early in the season.<br /><br />However, now that I have actually seen Suggs completely dominate a game, I can start to believe in the system. Numbers just don't do it for me, I need to see greatness and that's what I saw against the Steelers (and, admittedly, I weigh pass rushing heavily on analyzing a defense)<br /><br />Now, I just hope we can pull it off against the Texans, Saints and Browns. That should seal the deal in the playoff run.<br />[/quote]


its a shame that you weren't able to witness our 2000 defense (not just for the sake of this conversation, but as a fan)!

Our 00 defense were as 'vanilla' as they get. 4-3, 46 and Cover 2 almost exclusively, without the bizarre moving around all the time. If you think Matty's bland, you shoulda seen that...

And anyone who watched that team will tell you ... The players made that defense great. Marvin was a good DC, but the guys who played for that team made it special.

Just like it was the guys who played under Rex who made those defenses so damn good. Just like Marvin, Rex was a good DC. But the players took it to the next level.

BTW, if anyone is interested, I have the 2001 Super Bowl recorded. Let me know if you're interested (free sharing of course!) in getting a copy.

[codizzle]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291914989' post='568193']

BTW, if anyone is interested, I have the 2001 Super Bowl recorded. Let me know if you're interested (free sharing of course!) in getting a copy.
[/quote]
definitely interested... Tried sending u a pm...

[Bltravens]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291914989' post='568193']
its a shame that you weren't able to witness our 2000 defense (not just for the sake of this conversation, but as a fan)!

Our 00 defense were as 'vanilla' as they get. 4-3, 46 and Cover 2 almost exclusively, without the bizarre moving around all the time. If you think Matty's bland, you shoulda seen that...

And anyone who watched that team will tell you ... The players made that defense great. Marvin was a good DC, but the guys who played for that team made it special.

Just like it was the guys who played under Rex who made those defenses so damn good. Just like Marvin, Rex was a good DC. But the players took it to the next level.

BTW, if anyone is interested, I have the 2001 Super Bowl recorded. Let me know if you're interested (free sharing of course!) in getting a copy.
[/quote]
I have that whole playoff run on DVD and I dont even think they went to a 46. Thats how "here we are, try to beat us" they were as a defense.

[flynismo]

Ok, my email address is listed in my profile.All the commercials are editted out, but the file size is still about 2 GB. As soon as I can find a free hosting site, I'll upload it and give everyone the download link (I wouldn't be mad if you already know of a free file sharing site lol -- ps, no rapidshare please.)

[flynismo]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1291915993' post='568211']<br />I have that whole playoff run on DVD[/quote]


sharing is caring!

[Bltravens]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291916166' post='568215']
sharing is caring!
[/quote]
Man I would but I bought it off NFL.com (2000 was before my DVD days lol), and I cant even get the files onto my computer to put onto my Ipod even lol.

[RL52TheGreatest]

I would love to see that Super Bowl again. Greatest defense I have EVER seen and the reason I became a Ravens fan. (Started rooting for them in the middle of that season and told everyone I knew that they were going to win it all. I knew they were a team to watch when they went 2-1 in a 3 game stretch in which they scored ONLY field goals. Nobody wanted to believe me that they would even make the Super Bowl, let alone win it, but I got the last laugh. lol)

P.S. Can I get a link?

[flynismo]

There's a free program called DVD Decrypter that will do just that for you...its a good idea to make a backup of that onto your computer, cuz we know DVDs dont last forever.

[wayne]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291914989' post='568193']
its a shame that you weren't able to witness our 2000 defense (not just for the sake of this conversation, but as a fan)!

[B] Our 00 defense were as 'vanilla' as they get. 4-3, 46 and Cover 2 almost exclusively, without the bizarre moving around all the time. If you think Matty's bland, you shoulda seen that...[/B]

And anyone who watched that team will tell you ... The players made that defense great. Marvin was a good DC, but the guys who played for that team made it special.

Just like it was the guys who played under Rex who made those defenses so damn good. Just like Marvin, Rex was a good DC. But the players took it to the next level.

BTW, if anyone is interested, I have the 2001 Super Bowl recorded. Let me know if you're interested (free sharing of course!) in getting a copy.
[/quote]
You have to understand , the league has evolved alot since 2000. I'm not saying our 2000 squad wouldn't have fared well verses the talent today with the quality of players we had and you have to understand that we were stacked with talent so of course we were able to run vanilla " I'm gone line up in this and I know you know what I'm lining up in and I don't give a $%^#, still going to destroy you " basic defenses. I understand what Matty is trying to do here and it just puts more pressure on the players to win their one - on - one and I can live with that but you still have to get a little Rex Ryan at times. Like I say, I'm with Matty a little b/c I feel his D is built for the long run.

[noy]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1291913976' post='568184']
Ps to Noy...we zone blitz quite alot, its Mattison's way of bringing pressure while still having a safety overtop for the corners.
[/quote]

I know, I was just using the risky implementation of the zone blitz as a comparison for the implementation of "organized chaos"; both are risky, but I understand how the latter is more risky than the former.

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291914989' post='568193']
its a shame that you weren't able to witness our 2000 defense (not just for the sake of this conversation, but as a fan)!

Our 00 defense were as 'vanilla' as they get. 4-3, 46 and Cover 2 almost exclusively, without the bizarre moving around all the time. If you think Matty's bland, you shoulda seen that...

And anyone who watched that team will tell you ... The players made that defense great. Marvin was a good DC, but the guys who played for that team made it special.

Just like it was the guys who played under Rex who made those defenses so damn good. Just like Marvin, Rex was a good DC. But the players took it to the next level.

BTW, if anyone is interested, I have the 2001 Super Bowl recorded. Let me know if you're interested (free sharing of course!) in getting a copy.
[/quote]

I've been long planning to get the 2000 "NFL Greatest Games Series" of the Ravens, showing all of their playoff games. I know I can get it online, but it would be nice to have great visual/audio quality of one of the best defenses to exist (I'm a materialist that way ) Seeing Ray in his prime is also exciting. I've seen the "America's Game" of the Super Bowl, but it doesn't show me everything I'd like to see.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='noy' timestamp='1291919575' post='568263']
I know, I was just using the risky implementation of the zone blitz as a comparison for the implementation of "organized chaos"; both are risky, but I understand how the latter is more risky than the former.



I've been long planning to get the 2000 "NFL Greatest Games Series" of the Ravens, showing all of their playoff games. I know I can get it online, but it would be nice to have great visual/audio quality of one of the best defenses to exist (I'm a materialist that way ) Seeing Ray in his prime is also exciting. I've seen the "America's Game" of the Super Bowl, but it doesn't show me everything I'd like to see.
[/quote]
Ya the Greatest Game Series isnt in HD, but HD wasnt around then so the quality isnt too great.

[PuRock]

I feel like we just had this exact conversation with the same participants. *scratches head*

But I am a Mattison fan. He doesn't get the same credit as the blitz happy Rex. But the pieces have changed greatly.

[fanlewis]

In case you didn't know, Ray Lewis has been running the Raven's defense for the last 15 years. You could put Mickey Mouse in there as coordinator and the Raven's D would still be good.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='fanlewis' timestamp='1291960130' post='568964']
In case you didn't know, Ray Lewis has been running the Raven's defense for the last 15 years. You could put Mickey Mouse in there as coordinator and the Raven's D would still be good.
[/quote]

You're wrong.

[SuRihtanil]

He is doing a alright I know our pass defense is better than I expected. I just wish our defense could have put Kindle on the field some this year. I really wanted to see what he had to offer.

[wayne]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1291961292' post='568972']
You're wrong.
[/quote]
I feel hes right. You think all these D- Coordinators we had over the past 10 years was as good as advertised ? Think about it....... is it a coincidence that every D- Coordinator we had was supposedly good or is it that a player or players been holding it down for all these years, which one is easiest to believe to YOU! All the D- Coordinators we had were great D- Coordinators or the players or player ( Ray Lewis ) been holding it down ...... what are those D- Coordinators we had doing now and what was their team D ranked for the years they been with their respective years.

[flynismo]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1291970423' post='568999']<br />I feel hes right. You think all these D- Coordinators we had over the past 10 years was as good as advertised ? Think about it....... is it a coincidence that every D- Coordinator we had was supposedly good or is it that a player or players been holding it down for all these years, which one is easiest to believe to YOU! All the D- Coordinators we had were great D- Coordinators or the players or player ( Ray Lewis ) been holding it down ...... what are those D- Coordinators we had doing now and what was their team D ranked for the years they been with their respective years.<br />[/quote]


If that's the case, then why all the crying about how Mattison sucks and he needs to go?

[Bltravens]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1291970423' post='568999']
I feel hes right. You think all these D- Coordinators we had over the past 10 years was as good as advertised ? Think about it....... is it a coincidence that every D- Coordinator we had was supposedly good or is it that a player or players been holding it down for all these years, which one is easiest to believe to YOU! All the D- Coordinators we had were great D- Coordinators or the players or player ( Ray Lewis ) been holding it down ...... what are those D- Coordinators we had doing now and what was their team D ranked for the years they been with their respective years.
[/quote]
Correct me if Im wrong but you were on the "scheme" side of the fence in relation to scheme vs players. This statement you just made, is of the players make a scheme better variety. In which case you either A) just admitted that great players make schemes good or B ) a DC is only as good as his players.

If this is the case me, fly, and ER20 would like to thank you for coming around...and for wasting our time for the last 6 months. lol jk wayne, I agree we'll find out fast how good our DC and future DCs really are when Lewis and Reed retire.

[noy]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291979153' post='569009']
If that's the case, then why all the crying about how Mattison sucks and he needs to go?
[/quote]

Because...Ray Lewis can do no wrong. DUH?!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1291970423' post='568999']
I feel hes right. You think all these D- Coordinators we had over the past 10 years was as good as advertised ? Think about it....... is it a coincidence that every D- Coordinator we had was supposedly good or is it that a player or players been holding it down for all these years, which one is easiest to believe to YOU! All the D- Coordinators we had were great D- Coordinators or the players or player ( Ray Lewis ) been holding it down ...... what are those D- Coordinators we had doing now and what was their team D ranked for the years they been with their respective years.
[/quote]

Fly and Blt have already brought up the complete irony of you coming at me with this view-point after the debates we've had so I won't get into that.

I said that guy was wrong because while Ray and the litany of great defensive players we've seen wear purple have made the likes of Marvin, Nolan, Rex and Mattison look good over the years, to say you could have put an idiot in their place and the D would have played well isn't true.

As for Ray "running the defense for 15 years", he's the best MLB in the history of the game but even he couldn't will the D to play well in the early days. The D didn't become great till he got some help.

[wayne]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291979153' post='569009']
If that's the case, then why all the crying about how Mattison sucks and he needs to go?
[/quote]
Of course great players triumph over schemes but the average team has about 1 player, maybe two that has that status so you have to think about the other 9 players thats out there and schemes IMO can make or break average players as proven time and time again .

Mattison still has an input on the scheme of the D though like I'm sure that Peyton Manning O- coordinator had when it comes to playcalling. I just feel Matty has to help his players out sometime and not expect for them to win their one - on - one all the time. Thats really my main concern with Matty , help your players out more. I'm not calling for Matty 's head anymore but I wouldn't give him most of the credit for our D playing like they are playing either . I say this, when schemes are basic and vanilla , its obviously more of the players doing. Me or you could be the D- Coordinator and call basic , vanilla schemes, don't take too much thinking for that. I mean, Matty claims to be at the practice facility / office all day....... doing what?

[flynismo]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1292006007' post='569196']<br />Of course great players triumph over schemes but the average team has about 1 player, maybe two that has that status so you have to think about the other 9 players thats out there and schemes IMO can make or break average players as proven time and time again .<br /><br />Mattison still has an input on the scheme of the D though like I'm sure that Peyton Manning O- coordinator had when it comes to playcalling. I just feel Matty has to help his players out sometime and not expect for them to win their one - on - one all the time. Thats really my main concern with Matty , help your players out more. I'm not calling for Matty 's head anymore but I wouldn't give him most of the credit for our D playing like they are playing either . I say this, when schemes are basic and vanilla , its obviously more of the players doing. Me or you could be the D- Coordinator and call basic , vanilla schemes, don't take too much thinking for that. I mean, Matty claims to be at the practice facility / office all day....... doing what?<br />[/quote]


I still think that Matty is much better than you think, but, it's great that you're not part of the "lynch Matty" mob anymore. I'm praying for the day Cam kicks me out of the "Fire Cam Club".

[Bltravens]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1292006007' post='569196']
I just feel Matty has to help his players out sometime and not expect for them to win their one - on - one all the time.
[/quote]
I can agree to this, while it is important to win a 1 on 1 matchup as a basic principle of football, at times a numbers call is warranted to mix things up.

[flynismo]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1291751045' post='566161']<br />Lets hold off on the praise until after next week......If we go to Houston on Monday Night Football and hold them below 20 points, then I think we have reason to be excited.<br />[/quote]


I haven't forgotten this post, because several other people said this as well.

Sunday is here. We are going up against a very dangerous offense featuring guys like Schaub, AJ, Daniels and Foster, and we are making the trip to Houston and playing in their house. If and when we hold them to 20 or less, I'll expect all the "wait until after the Houston game" guys to come back and finally give the man his due.

31 - 17 Ravens

[stan]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1291744722' post='565969']
I thought the scheme helped you win one-on-one match-ups?
[/quote]
Iron Mike Tyson 0nce said "They all have a plan till I hit-um." LOL Sometimes dude you have to hit them in the mouth.

[stan]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1292007565' post='569214']
I still think that Matty is much better than you think, but, it's great that you're not part of the "lynch Matty" mob anymore. I'm praying for the day Cam kicks me out of the "Fire Cam Club".
[/quote]
When we find a good right tackle he will.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1292146379' post='570231']
I haven't forgotten this post, because several other people said this as well.

Sunday is here. We are going up against a very dangerous offense featuring guys like Schaub, AJ, Daniels and Foster, and we are making the trip to Houston and playing in their house. If and when we hold them to 20 or less, I'll expect all the "wait until after the Houston game" guys to come back and finally give the man his due.

31 - 17 Ravens
[/quote]

I really doubt that, not the score of course but people finally giving him his due. I mean look at what the man was able to do in the playoffs last season and he got absolutely not credited coming into this season.

He took 2 of the games best QBs in Brady and Manning, and made them look average at best.

Mattison has being doing a great job for this defense over the last 2 seasons. I think he does a great job game planing for teams, especially when we see them for a 2nd time.

Mattison is pretty much still finding his way as a NFL DC and he's doing a hellva job now, so I can only imagine how good he'll be once he A) Gets familiar with most of the offensive coaches in the NFL and starts to add the pieces to the defensive that he wants to run his defense.

[Bltravens]

Another thing with Mattison is as good as he has been, and IF if he continues to help the defensive players perform at a high level...he's the one DC we dont have to worry about getting a head coaching job and leaving the team after a couple seasons.

[XxSizzleXx]

LMAO, looks like Wayne just won the debate for ER.

The 3 year battle is now over.