It's Clear: Mattison Is Far Better Than Given Credit For

[flynismo]

[quote name='XxSizzleXx' timestamp='1291754556' post='566274']
I'm actually curious to see our big plays given up at this point compared to last year, I bet it has to be half as many.
[/quote]

I'm curious to see the numbers on that as well, so I'll look it up later if someone doesn't beat me to it.

[flynismo]

[quote name='ravensfan160' timestamp='1291754644' post='566276']
Thats cool man. I see what you are saying but at the same time don't understand where your loyalty to Mattison is coming from.
[/quote]

My loyalty originally stemmed from the fact that he is one of us. I withheld judgement til I saw enough to have an opinion either way...everyone deserves a chance to prove themselves. Then when the season ended, our #3 ranking confirmed to me that he has what it takes.
This season, he has been excellent as well. A few of us here have contended that our defensive inconsistencies were due to the players in large part, not Mattison's scheming. Seeing Mattison getting hammered for what I feel are unfair reasons naturally makes me want to defend him even more.



[quote]
As for you praising Cam Cameron when he warrents it, thats probably because offensive playcalling is easier to judge IMO. Calling a screen at just the right time is clear to see. Whereas defensive playcall, especially Mattison who runs a ton of base defense, is really all a matter of guys winning one on one battles. If one game the 3 man rush doesn't get there and our secondary gets torched will you really jump on the d-line first and not the coordinator? When something isn't working its his job to try something else and its an apparent lack of that that gives people reason to criticice. It just so happened that this past game our 3 man rush actually got there more times than not.

As a general rule, I don't think coaches deserve as much blame as they get but they also don't deserve as much praise as they sometimes get. But its the nature of the sport, every sport in fact, that coaches get fired first because you can't fire the team.
[/quote]



Personally, I find judging defensive playcalling to be easier ... defense just comes more natural to me. But I agree, coaches get too much credit/blame ... nature of the beast.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1291751405' post='566179']
So let me get this right, you're giving all the credit to Mattison for our defenses ranking for the season, all the stops they make, everything....

Uhh....I didn't think so. It's the players, Rex was here and he had most of the same players and our defense was always causing havok, thus the name Organized Chaos. Under Mattison it has been tame...nothing great, nothing utilizing the players skills that we have.

Lewis, Reed, Landry, Suggs, Ngata, Gregg, Webb, JJ....plenty of players on that defense..even some of our backups could start for other teams.

Having a negative opinion of our players to prove your point guy? come on SON
[/quote]
Im giving Mattison credit for understanding our defense, knowing he has to give help over the top to our corners. How are you going to tell me Gregg, JJ, Landry and Webb are playmakers this year. JJ is starting to play well after recovering from his shoulder surgery but before then he was a liability. Gregg has been getting washed down the line all season long, how do you not see that. Webb a playmaker with his one good game against Pittsburgh in week 4 then he lost his job...but hes a playmaker. Its negative, but its also the truth of the perception of those players.

The Rex comparisons need to stop the defense was 3rd in yards and points last year and is poised to be a top 5 unit in both again this year. His defense isnt sexy who cares, he knows what hes doing and to fire him would be idiotic.

[Perfekt]

if mattison hasnt proved that hes a done a good job just by the patch work that he has put in place how about the fact that since hes took over i cant remember a blow out game on our behalf.

[edreedfromtheu]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291744616' post='565967']
When our players actually, you know, win their one on one assignments, our defense plays like theyy have been for the past month. Is it just a coincidence that when guys step up and play like they are supposed to, our defense looks great?

Cmon fellas, the Matty haters are out in full force when the guy farts too loud any other time, why have you been so quiet lately?
[/quote]

I don't think the scheme on defense is really a problem, but the Steelers aren't exactly the most talented team on offense so that last game isn't a great barometer. I think this team needs linebackers more than anything. They need backers who can blitz, backers who can cover, and backers who can tackle. I don't think corners are really the problem, at least not the main problem. And I'm more than fine going forward with Josh Wilson and Lardarius Webb. If Foxworth ends up coming back fully healthy, great for depth.

Very vanilla defenses do just fine against some of the offenses the Ravens have problems with. Colts are turning it over against the COWBOYS of all defenses. This defense needs more talent before it worries about who is calling the plays.

And with all that said.... this team's problem is not the defense. It's been the offense, still is the offense, and unless changes are made... it's going to continue to be the offense.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Perfekt' timestamp='1291756529' post='566311']
if mattison hasnt proved that hes a done a good job just by the patch work that he has put in place how about the fact that since hes took over i cant remember a blow out game on our behalf.
[/quote]

But can you remember getting blown out?


(Also we did blow out the Bears and Lions last year)

[Bltravens]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1291757070' post='566328']
But can you remember getting blown out?
[/quote]
Ya I remember getting ruthlessly pumped by the Giants and Colts in 2008 if you want recent ones.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1291757127' post='566331']
Ya I remember getting ruthlessly pumped by the Giants and Colts in 2008 if you want recent ones.
[/quote]

But that was before Mattison came in as per my reply. In fact, that helps prove my point. Thanks.

[Marc2k6]

M. Wallace 5-76 yards, H. Ward 1-13 and H. Miller 1-9 and we lose the game! Disgraceful!

[flynismo]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1291757070' post='566328']<br />But can you remember getting blown out?[/quote]


i think that's what he meant to ask, but worded it improperly.

And no, last time I recall getting blown out was under ryan.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291758508' post='566374']
i think that's what he meant to ask, but worded it improperly.

And no, last time I recall getting blown out was under ryan.
[/quote]

Oh that makes sense now. Sorry Perfekt!


Speaking of Ryan getting blown out...

[1/28/01]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1291757405' post='566342']
But that was before Mattison came in as per my reply. In fact, that helps prove my point. Thanks.
[/quote]
bahahahah

[Bltravens]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1291757405' post='566342']
But that was before Mattison came in as per my reply. In fact, that helps prove my point. Thanks.
[/quote]
Wait what...are you on the "Mattison is actually not bad" side of the fence? Cuz my point was unlike Rex we havent gotten pumped the last 2 seasons despite having less overall talent (but more centralized talent ie Ray, Suggs, Ngata are better than Harris, Pace and Pioua(sp?)

ps. Anyone else notice that Ray is 6th in the league in tackles right now and on pace for 140+ tackles, while having the most passes defensed for a LB with 100+ tackles (tied with Timmons)...dude is 35 excuuuuuuuuuse me lol what an animal

[H8R]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291747656' post='566056']
<


No coincidence at all. And no "exotic formations" or "Organized Chaos" needed. Just players doing what they are supposed to do.
[/quote]

Exactly, win every battle every down and your the best d in the league, no questions. We need to maximize the victories associated with individual battles. Defense 101? Beat your man.

[flynismo]

Beat him like a red-headed stepchild!!

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

I like what Mattison has done with what he has to work with. He has put better thought into his schemes, and got the players to buy in. They all stick up for him, while Players are voicing the opposite for the OC.

JJ and LANDRY can't change the fact that they are slow, however they can be taught to wrap up and keep their legs moving during the tackle. That being said, we are still talking about Landry whiffing again, Josh Wilson whiffed, and SUGGS trying to rip loose the ball on Ben cost us as well. Thats on them.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1291764971' post='566538']
Exactly, win every battle every down and your the best d in the league, no questions. We need to maximize the victories associated with individual battles. Defense 101? Beat your man.
[/quote]
Sounds like what the 2000 Ravens did...didnt lose their matchup, and if they did they annihilated you on the next play for a loss. Cov 2 and 2 under for like 70% of the snaps that year...reeeeeeeeeeeal exotic lol. Frankly Im glad Mattison has put more own-as on the players to win a 1 on 1 battle the last couple years, the players will grow from it physically far more than they will in a numbers predominant scheme.

One example is Suggs, 1 more sack and he'll have more than he has ever had since his rookie year.

[ravensdfan]

I don't have too much of a problem with Mattison except for 2 things:

1. Why did we stop rushing in the 2nd half??? I know we got burned on a play or two but they were not lighting up our secondary. Until they got the short field they were doing nothing. So please explain to me the logic in once again going to a 3 man rush when we'd been pressuring Ben with success the entire first half? Please.

2. IMO we are just better man to man. We are more aggressive and successful. It seems Mattison does dial up that prevent/soft zone way too often when we've got a lead in the 4th. Why oh why does he do that?

[RoflDogs]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291747656' post='566056']
<


No coincidence at all. And no "exotic formations" or "Organized Chaos" needed. Just players doing what they are supposed to do.
[/quote]

I don't know about you, but I've seen more complex blitzes.


And the thing that is good about Mattison is that he is willing to change and adjust, and so far in the last 2 years we've had him, the defense is better down the stretch.

The offense however.....

Cam Cameron does not know the word "adjust" or "aggressive"

I believe that as long as he is calling the plays, the Ravens will never amount to anything

[TSizzle00]

[quote name='RoflDogs' timestamp='1291770701' post='566686']
I don't know about you, but I've seen more complex blitzes.


And the thing that is good about Mattison is that he is willing to change and adjust, and so far in the last 2 years we've had him, the defense is better down the stretch.

The offense however.....

Cam Cameron does not know the word "adjust" or "aggressive"

I believe that as long as he is calling the plays, the Ravens will never amount to anything
[/quote]
Its like he wants a big play and then after they get it lets go back to just trying to manage the game.

[flynismo]

Its good to see that so many people are changing the way they think about Matty; not just in this thread but throughout the message boards as a whole.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291839392' post='567285']
Its good to see that so many people are changing the way they think about Matty; not just in this thread but throughout the message boards as a whole.
[/quote]

The D surrendering 33 points the last three games will do that.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1291839652' post='567288']<br />The D surrendering 33 points the last three games will do that.<br />[/quote]


you'd think ranking #3 in his first season would have done that ....

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291840445' post='567301']
you'd think ranking #3 in his first season would have done that ....
[/quote]

For some people, no. It's sad.

[wayne]

[quote name='noy' timestamp='1291747673' post='566058']
From what I've been seeing, I saw some pretty nice blitzing packages last game. Suggs and Ngata picking up the slack also helps a lot; Ngata seems to be improving his pass rushing every game, indirectly giving Suggs an advantage. Overall, I think Matty is fine tuning this defense to becoming elite again.

And our defense has not been playing this way for the past month; this was by far their best performance of the year, so don't even try to pull that.

Players beating their one on one matchups doesn't disprove scheming around the better players in the defense to create havoc. I don't see why it's so hard to believe when that was what Rex did when he was our defensive coordinator...he created illusions and matchup problems...what's so hard to understand about that?

[B] If simply beating a guy one on one was the be all and end all, why was blitzing created[/B] ? What about zone blitzing? Aren't both a form of creating a mismatch by using schemes? Blitzing is a response to one on one matchups not being quick enough to beat the offense. LeBeau created zone blitzing to further that idea and create speed matchup issues for the offensive line (linebacker/DB vs linemen) while using d-linemen to close a window long enough for the scheme to be effective. THAT is an example of using a weakness as a strength; if your pass rusher isn't getting it done, it's time to confuse and keep the lineman/QB guessing as to who is coming. Mattison seems to be doing that, and I also recall Matt Williamson from Scouts, Inc also talking about the idea that Matty could do a better job at disguising the blitz.

There are other options out there that work, and just because our guys woke up against the Steelers doesn't disprove that idea. I accept that one on one matchups are important, but it is not the only characteristic that defines how well a defense performs.
[/quote]
Exactly and I knew who made this thread without looking at the name,lol. I would like to see what Mattison would do with a team like the Bills. Having two future HOFs and arguably the two greatest players to ever play their respective position along with the baddest D- Lineman and OLB on the planet makes life much easier for Matty. I'm willing to bet that Ed and Ray put more insight into Mattys playcalling than he does ( sort of like Peyton Manning with his O- Coordinator..... they are basically coaches on the field ).

Nevertheless, I like how our D has played the past month and using Mattys scheme I feel will pay off more in the long run ( yea, I said it and it has nothing to do with NE thrashing of the Jets,LOL ). Now, I feel at times that Matty will have to get a lil Rex Ryan in his scheming. Suggs is str8 beasting.

[wayne]

[quote name='scrock' timestamp='1291750322' post='566130']
A coach who inherited a defense full of great players and has 1 good game and he's suddenly a lot better than we thought? Mattison needs to go...our defense shouldn't have taken 10 weeks to get going...come on
[/quote]
You don't say,LOL! I wouldn't say a team full of great players but how many teams can you name that has 4 great players on D? 4 great players amongst a team full of average players makes for a great D any day of the week. Hell, just two great players amongst a team full of average players makes for a great D.

[TSizzle00]

Ravens secondary is still in front of the Jets who supposedly have 2 shutdown CBs. Yes folks the Ravens "horrible" secondary is outplaying the Jets.

[Guest RBates]

People have you forgotten that we have two corners coming off of major injuries of course we were going to have problems against the pass. I don't doubt, that they are still hurt. So with that said I think we have done a decent job on D. Hats off to coaches and players.

[flynismo]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1291890425' post='567979']<br />Exactly and I knew who made this thread without looking at the name,lol. I would like to see what Mattison would do with a team like the Bills. Having two future HOFs and arguably the two greatest players to ever play their respective position along with the baddest D- Lineman and OLB on the planet makes life much easier for Matty. I'm willing to bet that Ed and Ray put more insight into Mattys playcalling than he does ( sort of like Peyton Manning with his O- Coordinator..... they are basically coaches on the field ).<br /><br />Nevertheless, I like how our D has played the past month and using Mattys scheme I feel will pay off more in the long run ( yea, I said it and it has nothing to do with NE thrashing of the Jets,LOL ). Now, I feel at times that Matty will have to get a lil Rex Ryan in his scheming. Suggs is str8 beasting.<br />[/quote]


Four excellent players, seven average ones. We're ranked #7 so far, which is about where we should be.
Then look at past teams, where we had 7-8 excellent players.

But, I wouldn't expect you to give Matty the credit he deserves. Your new name is 7 Up (never have, never will).

I'd also love to see Ryan take over the Bill, rather than inheritting an elite defense in it's prime. Let's see how "organized chaos" works over there

[noy]

I think the baseline of my comments is that "organized chaos" is just another method toward playing defense. You think LeBeau didn't see the riskiness of the zone blitz when he incorporated it into his defense? Big risk, but big reward.

The biggest difference between Matty and Rex (last time I bring up his name!) is exactly that, the riskiness of the defense. Matty's style is safe, relying more on one on one matchups to be great. But I came in during the chaos period, and when it was so dominant I might add. It's a frustrating feeling when the defense looks completely different and there had been little to no pressure early in the season.

However, now that I have actually seen Suggs completely dominate a game, I can start to believe in the system. Numbers just don't do it for me, I need to see greatness and that's what I saw against the Steelers (and, admittedly, I weigh pass rushing heavily on analyzing a defense)

Now, I just hope we can pull it off against the Texans, Saints and Browns. That should seal the deal in the playoff run.