Isn't It Always Like This?

[Ngata92NT]

So we lost to the Steelers and are down a game in our division. We have the Bengals, Browns, Texans, and Saints to look forward too. It's going to be a hell of a bumpy ride.

But isn't it always like this for the Ravens? We've never been the Colts or the Chargers, always winning our division. It's always a dogfight for the playoff spots, we always have had to claw our way to the top. That's the essence of Ravens football; we never say its impossible and we never submit or relent. Back in 2000 we had NO passing game, we went on a streak of scoring no touchdowns at all and we still preserved.

And look what happened.... we won the Superbowl! How can some of these posters hate on the team for losing this game? The Steelers are in contention (along with us) for the best team in the NFL. They played great defense yesterday and we lost, fair and square. OUR SEASON IS NOT OVER- in fact, it may have just begun. Even if we get into the playoffs by a hair, is anyone going to complain? Our guys PLAY THEIR HEARTS OUT. I'd like to see any of us put our bodies on the line against Harrison and Woodley.

So here's to the Ravens- even when times are rough they should know that some fans will never stop supporting them.

[Alexir]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' timestamp='1291652787' post='563442']
So we lost to the Steelers and are down a game in our division. We have the Bengals, Browns, Texans, and Saints to look forward too. It's going to be a hell of a bumpy ride.

But isn't it always like this for the Ravens? We've never been the Colts or the Chargers, always winning our division. It's always a dogfight for the playoff spots, we always have had to claw our way to the top. That's the essence of Ravens football; we never say its impossible and we never submit or relent. Back in 2000 we had NO passing game, we went on a streak of scoring no touchdowns at all and we still preserved.

And look what happened.... we won the Superbowl! How can some of these posters hate on the team for losing this game? The Steelers are in contention (along with us) for the best team in the NFL. They played great defense yesterday and we lost, fair and square. OUR SEASON IS NOT OVER- in fact, it may have just begun. Even if we get into the playoffs by a hair, is anyone going to complain? Our guys PLAY THEIR HEARTS OUT. I'd like to see any of us put our bodies on the line against Harrison and Woodley.

So here's to the Ravens- even when times are rough they should know that some fans will never stop supporting them.


[/quote]

I get the whole rah rah, let's go team/keep positive thing and all. But this is a team who we struggle to find a W against. We beat them last year but struggled with their 3rd string QB in at home. We beat them this year at Pittsburgh, but Big Ben wasn't playing. It's frustrating that this is a huge rivalry game and we always find a way to lose it.

And I don't know why people light you have to sound like a self righteous Ravens Fan. We all support the Ravens. That's why we are here! Just because we have criticism on our team doesn't mean we dont support them.

[Ed_Reed20]

Some of the posters have gone too far in criticizing the team but I completely understand "hating on the team" to an extent after last night's game. It's a game they should have won.

As for how the Ravens have usually fought their way to the play-offs, the reality, [size="3"][b]it should not have been that way this season[/b][/size]. Player execution has been issue numerous times this season. I can't stress that enough. However, it's unbelievably frustrating to come to the full realization 13 weeks into the season that the OC doesn't know how to use the personnel effectively despite the talent level and is content with sitting on leads, [b]even though it's come back to bite him in the butt before[/b].

[grape drank]

I don't "hate" the ravens per say. I just hate the fact that they have SOOOOO much talent, yet they just always seem to be 1 or 2 plays away from winning the game, theres no doubt in anyones mind that the ravens are better than the steelers based on what we saw yesterday, we were dominant! Their O line had no answer for Suggs, Ben couldn't make many throws, our Run D was great, with a few slip ups. Our offense could move the ball but ONCE AGAIN incapable of scoring on that one long drive where we got the field goal, and on the last drive to win the game.

The one thing that infuriated me was the play calling though, on two 2nd and 13+ yard situations Cam decided to run the ball (not even a draw, just a straight up run from a running formation) and our running game hadn't done squat all game. leaving Flacco in a 3rd and long situation against one of the best defences in the league. For all the criticism joe receives, you must admit, cam rarely puts him in a position to succeed with play calling like that. I know hind sight is 20/20 but honestly on 2nd and 13/15 even I know a run against the steelers could only gain 5 or so yards at best, leaving joe with 7-10 yards on 3rd down. COME ON MAN!

[Ngata92NT]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1291653098' post='563452']
I get the whole rah rah, let's go team/keep positive thing and all. But this is a team who we struggle to find a W against. We beat them last year but struggled with their 3rd string QB in at home. We beat them this year at Pittsburgh, but Big Ben wasn't playing. It's frustrating that this is a huge rivalry game and we always find a way to lose it.

And I don't know why people light you have to sound like a self righteous Ravens Fan. We all support the Ravens. That's why we are here! Just because we have criticism on our team doesn't mean we dont support them.
[/quote]

I'm sorry if you think I'm being self-righteous, but there's a big difference between criticizing your team and saying that we suck, that we have no heart, that you're going to stop watching the team because of one loss. There are clearly some fans who only support the team when we are winning; some people are willing to hate players/coaches for this loss.

All I'm saying is if you're going to criticize, make it constructive criticism.

All these people want to cry and whine about losing to Pitt. That's not supporting your team- that's abandoning them. If you want to get frustrated and give up on the season that's fine- but I'm not ready to do that yet.

Edit: In response to EdReed20:

I realize the frustration we all feel when we see our offense struggling, considering the amount of talent we have on that side of the ball. People need to realize that just having the talent isn't enough, it takes time to build chemistry and refine technique. The HUGE expectations we had coming into the season were unrealistic. I bought into them too. The Ravens have the potential for a great offense but it hasn't been realized yet.

[Alexir]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' timestamp='1291653541' post='563484']
I'm sorry if you think I'm being self-righteous, but there's a big difference between criticizing your team and saying that we suck, that we have no heart, that you're going to stop watching the team because of one loss. There are clearly some fans who only support the team when we are winning; some people are willing to hate players/coaches for this loss.

All I'm saying is if you're going to criticize, make it constructive criticism.

All these people want to cry and whine about losing to Pitt. That's not supporting your team- that's abandoning them. If you want to get frustrated and give up on the season that's fine- but I'm not ready to do that yet.
[/quote]

For the most part, I have read a lot of good criticism. I don't think ive seen any comments on throwing in the towel or that we suck as a team.

Cam Cameron sucking? Yes. Flacco sucking? Well yeah, but if he gets a faster release he will be amazing....that last pass was horrendous...

But for the most part fans are just mad that we can't beat our Rival, one of the biggest Rivalries in sports by the way, when both teams are pretty much healthy and at their bests.

[Ngata92NT]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1291653826' post='563503']
For the most part, I have read a lot of good criticism. I don't think ive seen any comments on throwing in the towel or that we suck as a team.

Cam Cameron sucking? Yes. Flacco sucking? Well yeah, but if he gets a faster release he will be amazing....that last pass was horrendous...

But for the most part fans are just mad that we can't beat our Rival, one of the biggest Rivalries in sports by the way, when both teams are pretty much healthy and at their bests.
[/quote]

"For the most part, I have read a lot of good criticism. I don't think ive seen any comments on throwing in the towel or that we suck as a team."

Of course there are tons of Ravens fans who are REAL Ravens fans and don't betray their team. I was never claiming that I was the only one or that it was an exclusive group. In fact the majority of Ravens fans are like that. But you can't tell me you haven't seen the threads like this one:

http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/30120-ravens-have-no-heart-no-championship-mentality/.

And that's just after this game, tons of threads pop up like this after every loss, especially on other forums and the comments section. Those are the people I'm addressing.

As for the Flacco/Cam sucking part, they DON'T SUCK. They are professionals and are very good at what they do. Of course they could be a lot better and there's nothing wrong with proposing changes that should have been made, adjustments, different play calls, etc...

[Moderator 2]

Hm so the Ravens have N
EVER beat the Steelers? OK. Don't usually split with them
.

[Alexir]

[quote name='Moderator 2' timestamp='1291654319' post='563540']
Hm so the Ravens have N
EVER beat the Steelers? OK. Don't usually split with them
.
[/quote]

My point being we haven't beat them at their best since 2006. Only reason we split with them last 2 seasons is because of Charlie Batch and Dennis Dixon

[Alexir]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' timestamp='1291654303' post='563538']
"For the most part, I have read a lot of good criticism. I don't think ive seen any comments on throwing in the towel or that we suck as a team."

Of course there are tons of Ravens fans who are REAL Ravens fans and don't betray their team. I was never claiming that I was the only one or that it was an exclusive group. In fact the majority of Ravens fans are like that. But you can't tell me you haven't seen the threads like this one:

[url="http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/30120-ravens-have-no-heart-no-championship-mentality/."]http://boards.baltim...hip-mentality/.[/url]

And that's just after this game, tons of threads pop up like this after every loss, especially on other forums and the comments section. Those are the people I'm addressing.

As for the Flacco/Cam sucking part, they DON'T SUCK. They are professionals and are very good at what they do. Of course they could be a lot better and there's nothing wrong with proposing changes that should have been made, adjustments, different play calls, etc...
[/quote]

While that OP of that thread does sound whiny and not very loyal to the team, he does bring up some valid arguments. If he waited a day to write that instead of typing it up still high on adrenaline and beer right after the game, it could of come out pretty constructive.

[FWalkerHOF]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' timestamp='1291652787' post='563442']
So we lost to the Steelers and are down a game in our division. We have the Bengals, Browns, Texans, and Saints to look forward too. It's going to be a hell of a bumpy ride.

But isn't it always like this for the Ravens? We've never been the Colts or the Chargers, always winning our division. It's always a dogfight for the playoff spots, we always have had to claw our way to the top. That's the essence of Ravens football; we never say its impossible and we never submit or relent. Back in 2000 we had NO passing game, we went on a streak of scoring no touchdowns at all and we still preserved.

And look what happened.... we won the Superbowl! How can some of these posters hate on the team for losing this game? The Steelers are in contention (along with us) for the best team in the NFL. They played great defense yesterday and we lost, fair and square. OUR SEASON IS NOT OVER- in fact, it may have just begun. Even if we get into the playoffs by a hair, is anyone going to complain? Our guys PLAY THEIR HEARTS OUT. I'd like to see any of us put our bodies on the line against Harrison and Woodley.

So here's to the Ravens- even when times are rough they should know that some fans will never stop supporting them.


[/quote]
I disagree, this is not like always. Typically the Steelers and other teams across the league seem to be superior to the Ravens. Usually we hope the Ravens can come out and play an excellent game to keep up with the Steelers (or Pats, Colts etc...) This year we are the team that others fear. We have looked like the better team through most of the game in at least 2 of our losses... This one and the Pats game.

That is not to say that we are clearly heads and shoulders above the rest of the league, because we aren't. But I think it speaks volumes that we have had the lead in the 4th quarter of every game we've played this year. [b]No other team in the league can say that. Not the Steelers, Patriots, Jets, Saints, Eagles, Falcons, Packers, Bears... nobody but us.[/b] That to me means we aren't getting overpowered, we aren't overmatched... but we're losing because of mental errors (with a little help from refs IE Bengals/Falcons games.)

And contrary to what you are saying OP, I do think there is reason to be critical of certain players and one coordinator in particular. By losing this game we have probably given up home field advantage throughout the playoffs and a bye week for our vets to rest up. That is a HUGE LOSS. The only thing holding the Ravens back from a very easy road to the playoffs is themselves.

[SaVaGe]

Just because the past was like this doesn't mean moving forward should be like this. We were under the impression that all these new FA acquisitions were here to score points on offense and put teams away and what we have gotten is incredibly low scoring, end of the minute games. Sick of watching 30 minute Ravens games. Tell me when we get a team that can play the full 60.

[IggyRave]

We still have a great shot at the divisio.

Steelers lose to Jets. Lose oe of CI/CLE. o real reaso to be dow.

[WestCoastRaven]

I'm a new fan and I see the problems on offense but I never feel like I made the wrong choice. Frustration is the best word to describe what's happening now as I see
moments of greatness that are too often overshadowed by 3 and out. The Ravens first offensive series proved this. Is it the OC?, or player caliber?, I'm not sure yet but until it's fixed we'll be off balance and struggling.
This is a good team though because despite the problems..we're still in the hunt!!.

[Ngata92NT]

[quote name='FWalkerHOF' timestamp='1291654614' post='563563']
I disagree, this is not like always. Typically the Steelers and other teams across the league seem to be superior to the Ravens. Usually we hope the Ravens can come out and play an excellent game to keep up with the Steelers (or Pats, Colts etc...) This year we are the team that others fear. We have looked like the better team through most of the game in at least 2 of our losses... This one and the Pats game.

That is not to say that we are clearly heads and shoulders above the rest of the league, because we aren't. But I think it speaks volumes that we have had the lead in the 4th quarter of every game we've played this year. [b]No other team in the league can say that. Not the Steelers, Patriots, Jets, Saints, Eagles, Falcons, Packers, Bears... nobody but us.[/b] That to me means we aren't getting overpowered, we aren't overmatched... but we're losing because of mental errors (with a little help from refs IE Bengals/Falcons games.)

And contrary to what you are saying OP, I do think there is reason to be critical of certain players and one coordinator in particular. By losing this game we have probably given up home field advantage throughout the playoffs and a bye week for our vets to rest up. That is a HUGE LOSS. The only thing holding the Ravens back from a very easy road to the playoffs is themselves.
[/quote]

I'm not saying that it should be like this, or that it's better this way. I'm just pointing out that we've had a lot of success, despite the odds, so there's no reason to despair or give up.

As for singling out Cam, I don't really feel qualified to critique a professional game plan. There's sooo much that goes into it that we don't notice on TV, these guys spend many hours developing their strategies, noticing tendencies, etc... Just because it doesn't work doesn't mean the game plan was wrong. How about the fact that Rice and McGahee were completely unable to run the ball? Or Dickson failing at air while Harrison and Woodley rushed straight at Flacco? There's so much that happens in a game of football that you cannot possibly say Cam is the only reason that we lost.

Look, if you want a new OC, or you think Cam sucks, that's your own opinion and you're entitled to it. But realize that games are won and lost as a team. Cam didn't under throw Dickson on the last play of the game.

[theFRANCHISE]

For what it's worth, the home field advantage factor is overrated in the playoffs when you consider that the Super Bowl is played in a neutral site where the crowd isn't guaranteed to be on your side if you're the designated "home" team.

Better for the team to be road warriors and get used to winning tough games on the road, than to sulk and worry about [i]one[/i] blemish on an otherwise impressive home record. Also, the bye week for the top two seeds has been detrimental to many of them over the years, as evidenced by the rarity in which 1 and 2 seeds face off in each conference championship game and the Super Bowl itself. Though the concept of the bye is to allow the players to rest, many coaches are wary of it because a lot of the players lose their edge, which leads to many upset victories in the Divisional Round.

[SaVaGe]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' timestamp='1291655080' post='563592']
I'm not saying that it should be like this, or that it's better this way. I'm just pointing out that we've had a lot of success, despite the odds, so there's no reason to despair or give up.

As for singling out Cam, I don't really feel qualified to critique a professional game plan. There's sooo much that goes into it that we don't notice on TV, these guys spend many hours developing their strategies, noticing tendencies, etc... Just because it doesn't work doesn't mean the game plan was wrong. How about the fact that Rice and McGahee were completely unable to run the ball? Or Dickson failing at air while Harrison and Woodley rushed straight at Flacco? There's so much that happens in a game of football that you cannot possibly say Cam is the only reason that we lost.

Look, if you want a new OC, or you think Cam sucks, that's your own opinion and you're entitled to it. But realize that games are won and lost as a team. Cam didn't under throw Dickson on the last play of the game.
[/quote]

To be honest if his game plan was to run the ball against the Steelers then he should just get out of the NFL right now. We don't have a monster like Hillis to run them over, we have Rice and McGahee who are both elusive runners with McGahee a little more physical. I don't question his effort that would be foolish, he fits the quote "Insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". His plays are fantastic he just calls them at the wrong time, EVERYTIME.

[Ngata92NT]

[quote name='SaVaGe' timestamp='1291655341' post='563604']
To be honest if his game plan was to run the ball against the Steelers then he should just get out of the NFL right now. We don't have a monster like Hillis to run them over, we have Rice and McGahee who are both elusive runners with McGahee a little more physical. I don't question his effort that would be foolish, he fits the quote "Insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". His plays are fantastic he just calls them at the wrong time, EVERYTIME.
[/quote]

So we need to completely abandon the running game? In hindsight it's obvious we should have passed the ball more. But hindsight is always 20/20... think about it from a strategy perspective. We can't just abandon the run, it's essential to control ToP against the Steelers and the running game helps control the blitzes the Steelers like to use. You can't have Harrison and Woodley coming off the edge every play without worrying about containing the run. And just because it's the Steeler's doesn't mean it's impossible to run the ball. It might be difficult but it's our O-Line and RBs who failed to produce with the situation they were given.

[SaVaGe]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' timestamp='1291655565' post='563615']
So we need to completely abandon the running game? In hindsight it's obvious we should have passed the ball more. But hindsight is always 20/20... think about it from a strategy perspective. We can't just abandon the run, it's essential to control ToP against the Steelers and the running game helps control the blitzes the Steelers like to use. You can't have Harrison and Woodley coming off the edge every play without worrying about containing the run.
[/quote]

I am all for the run but when you go into conservative mode after a 3-7 point lead? That is unacceptable. We should not have been running three straight downs in the early 3rd quarter.

[havok]

What really irks me is that if there were 3 quarters in a game, we would be undefeated this year which goes to show that the team just sits on leads and that's why we get beat by the good teams, we sat on the pats lead, up 10 going into the 4th, blew that one, sat on the lead with buffalo had to beat them in OT, sit on the bucks lead, almost gave that one up....then last night we all know what happened.... I hate to say it but going into the 4th I expected us to blow the lead...not because of this year but because ben and the steelers always seem to find a way to finish us off in the 4th quarter. Say what you want but we didn't give that game to them troy and ben took it and we need to make sure history doesn't repeat itself in january.

[FWalkerHOF]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' timestamp='1291655080' post='563592']
I'm not saying that it should be like this, or that it's better this way. I'm just pointing out that we've had a lot of success, despite the odds, so there's no reason to despair or give up.

As for singling out Cam, I don't really feel qualified to critique a professional game plan. There's sooo much that goes into it that we don't notice on TV, these guys spend many hours developing their strategies, noticing tendencies, etc... Just because it doesn't work doesn't mean the game plan was wrong. How about the fact that Rice and McGahee were completely unable to run the ball? Or Dickson failing at air while Harrison and Woodley rushed straight at Flacco? There's so much that happens in a game of football that you cannot possibly say Cam is the only reason that we lost.

Look, if you want a new OC, or you think Cam sucks, that's your own opinion and you're entitled to it. But realize that games are won and lost as a team. Cam didn't under throw Dickson on the last play of the game.
[/quote]

Cam wasn't the only reason, but the biggest reason. Just look at the last drive man. That is what our offense should look like the whole game! Up tempo, aggressive, looking to make plays down field. If that is the type of offensive attack we start out with, the run game will open up and Rice will be getting 10 yard chunks as well and then the Steelers are really on their heels.

I don't know what it is but that is not what our offense looks like through most of the game. It only comes to life when we are absolutely forced to score. That is when Flacco starts to play like a real NFL QB... dropping back, going through his progressions, finding the open man and making an NFL throw. Notice how our best recievers (Boldin, Housh, Mason) also start getting the ball a lot more on these drives. For the rest of the game, we run plays where only one guy is supposed to get the ball and if he doesn't come open in time, Flacco will hold onto the ball and wait for him to get open. Whether it is Flacco that prefers to keep it that way, or Cam's doing... I don't know. Either way, it's costing us games.

[BloodRaven]

People aren't mad because we lost, they're mad because we were the better team on the day yet we choked. Thats worse than losing to a better team.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1291658966' post='563783']
People aren't mad because we lost, they're mad because we were the better team on the day yet we choked. Thats worse than losing to a better team.
[/quote]
I can understand that.

Of course, the only way to fix this is for the players to learn from it, just like they learned from the heartbreak of road losses in years past to become one of the league's better road teams.

[FWalkerHOF]

Just like we learned in the Patriots game that if you just keep stalling on offense and giving the ball back to the other team, they will eventually correct their own mistakes and beat you.

whoops.

[Corvus]

No, our season is far from over and the team and most intelligent fans have moved on. Still, it doesn't hide the disappointment of having the opportunity to ensure an inside track to a home playoff game just by winning a home game last night and blowing it, especially when the team knows how hard it is as a wild card from the last two years...

[berad]

Good topic, the Ravens have, for the past two seasons, had to win their way into the playoffs in December. This will test their meddle.

[Shammy]

yea its true that the season is still far from over .. its just irritating when every game we have lost have been winnable we just come up short because of poor excecution and or coaching .. nobody has dominated us all season we shouldnt have lost any games.. we got the defending superbowl champs coming up plus 2 crucial division games we'll see if we can be the true contenders we are

[baltravens]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1291653124' post='563455']
Some of the posters have gone too far in criticizing the team but I completely understand "hating on the team" to an extent after last night's game. It's a game they should have won.

As for how the Ravens have usually fought their way to the play-offs, the reality, [size="3"][b]it should not have been that way this season[/b][/size]. Player execution has been issue numerous times this season. I can't stress that enough. However, it's unbelievably frustrating to come to the full realization 13 weeks into the season that the OC doesn't know how to use the personnel effectively despite the talent level and is content with sitting on leads, [b]even though it's come back to bite him in the butt before[/b].
[/quote]
Yes, yes, more on Cam.
Sure we had some players out or injured, but we including me, still see the OC as an issue. I still don't know if Cam is the one in the future for the Ravens.

[UMDan]

[quote name='Ngata92NT' timestamp='1291652787' post='563442']
So we lost to the Steelers and are down a game in our division. We have the Bengals, Browns, Texans, and Saints to look forward too. It's going to be a hell of a bumpy ride.

But isn't it always like this for the Ravens? We've never been the Colts or the Chargers, always winning our division. It's always a dogfight for the playoff spots, we always have had to claw our way to the top. That's the essence of Ravens football; we never say its impossible and we never submit or relent. Back in 2000 we had NO passing game, we went on a streak of scoring no touchdowns at all and we still preserved.

And look what happened.... we won the Superbowl! How can some of these posters hate on the team for losing this game? The Steelers are in contention (along with us) for the best team in the NFL. They played great defense yesterday and we lost, fair and square. OUR SEASON IS NOT OVER- in fact, it may have just begun. Even if we get into the playoffs by a hair, is anyone going to complain? Our guys PLAY THEIR HEARTS OUT. I'd like to see any of us put our bodies on the line against Harrison and Woodley.

So here's to the Ravens- even when times are rough they should know that some fans will never stop supporting them.


[/quote]


I very much agree with what you're saying. It does always seem like we're fighting for our lives.. the Ravens love to take things down to the wire, don't they?

I understand people being angry with some of the decision-making and mishaps, because we certainly could have a better record now. Hell, we could be 12-0. But at the same time, we can do nothing about our previous losses. And the issues with Cam cannot be changed by us either.

The Ravens have done their best as underdogs that's why I was unhappy with being so highly rated before the season began. Our road playoff record (7-3) is better than our home playoff record (1-2) .. we are certainly a little down after that loss but we aren't even close to out. As long as we win 3 of the next 4 games we will be a wildcard team regardless of what other teams do. Besides the Pats (or Jets), the other teams in contention for a WC spot are all 6-6, we're two games ahead. If one of them wins all four, if we win 3/4 we still have a lead over them. We'd be 11-5 to their 10-6. Let's keep our spirits up because this season is far from over.

[Moderator 2]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1291658966' post='563783']
People aren't mad because we lost, [b]they're mad because we were the better team on the day yet we choked[/b]. Thats worse than losing to a better team.
[/quote]

I agree, especially the way I loathe the cold lol