If We Never Drafted Boller

[Purple Punishment]

I know we traded to get back into the first for Boller, but who would we have taken if we never needed him? Opinions welcome

[flynismo]

Nnamdi Asomugha or Anquan Boldin I'd hope, and assuming we'd still trade up...

if I recall, we were pretty high on Bethel Johnson, so we probably would have drafted him.

[Purple Punishment]

I was thinking Nnamdi. We got Boldin either way

[steeldude]

I don't think it was a bad draft-he was worth a shot. The bad thing was that you guys stuck with him for so long and with Billick for that matter. Offensive Genius?? What were you thinking there?

[flynismo]

Now that I looked it up, Boldin would have still been availale in Round 2. Great call Oz.

[AwakenTheDemon]

It really saddens me when you look back at some of our drafts (03 with Boller, 04 with Edwards, 05 with Clayton) and you see some of the absolute stars and steals that were available:

[b]03:[/b] Boldin, Clark, Asomugha, Witten, Umenyiora, Samuel, Mathis, Gates (who went freaking undrafted)
[b]04:[/b] Dockett, Cooley, Schaub, Allen, Welker
[b]05:[/b] Rodgers, White, Jackson, Gore, Tuck

Hindsight is 20/20, who knew that some of those guys would blow up once they landed in the NFL. In the end we turned out fine. But some of those missed opportunities (compared to who we did draft before the mentioned players) sting a bit. Especially when we had Clayton... when we could have had Roddy or Vincent. Luckily things picked up very, very well in 06 and on

[Purple Punishment]

We could have taken Osi in the 2nd to bookend with Sizzle, HOT DAMN! that would have been insane

[flynismo]

[quote name='steeldude' timestamp='1291535994' post='559613']<br /> Wait a sec I thought Oz was God-like in Baltimore. Is somebody finally admitting there is a draft problem there. Two tight ends and no corners in this draft. Hmmmm Kinda all looks silly now huh?<br />[/quote]

I think Oz's drafting skills are over-rated, but I'd never admit it to a Steelers fan.

[Purple Punishment]

his 1st and 3rd rd picks are insane and his UDFAs are even better. However, Boller was Billicks decision. If it was up to Oz, Im sure he would have went a different direction

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='steeldude' timestamp='1291535994' post='559613']
Wait a sec I thought Oz was God-like in Baltimore. Is somebody finally admitting there is a draft problem there. Two tight ends and no corners in this draft. Hmmmm Kinda all looks silly now huh?
[/quote]

No, I wouldn't call it a draft problem at all. If you look at the overall scheme of things, Ozzie [i]has[/i] been extremely successful with his draft picks. Let's just take his number one picks into account:
Ogden, R. Lewis, Boulware, Starks, McAlister, J. Lewis, Taylor, Heap, Reed, Suggs, Boller, Clayton, Ngata, Grubbs, Flacco, Oher

That's 42 Pro Bowl selections, 28 All-Pro selections (20 first team, 8 second team), 3 Rookies of the Year, 7 Defensive Players of the Year selections, an Offensive Player of the Year selection, and 4 members of the 2000's All-Decade team.

Out of all of those players picked, you can really only say Taylor, Boller, and Clayton didn't fully live up to their draft position. I think that's pretty damn good for a GM. The man may not be perfect, but he's probably as close as it gets when it comes to wheeling-and-dealing and selecting future talent in any round and from the undrafted free agency pool.

[AwakenTheDemon]

Regarding the back-to-back tight ends, you have to take into account Heap's age and health. Yeah, he's been great this year, but he's also been plagued by injuries off and on in the past. Add that into a complete lack of depth behind him, and you have a recipe for disaster, whether it be in the present with an injury, or the future with him retiring. I wasn't very happy with the back-to-back tight ends at first either, but with the tremendous upside that both Dickson and Pitta have, it could very well solidify the tight end position for the future.

Harewood went down with an injury, so we really can't pass any sort of judgment upon him (plus he was an extremely raw project for the team). Arthur Jones has been caught up in the little logjam on the defensive line this year. Kindle...well, we all know what happened with that gem. Reed's been showing his stuff on returns, and has the ability to maybe see the field as a receiver one day. That leaves Cody, who (despite my initial complaints) has shown tremendous heart and will to get into shape and give the game his all. For the limited amount of time he's been on the field, he's shown that he could become a great player if he keeps it up.

What it boils down to is, our draft class from this year just hasn't gotten a ton of playtime. That's not a knock on them or their ability at all.

[codizzle]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291536149' post='559614']
I think Oz's drafting skills are over-rated, but I'd never admit it to a Steelers fan.
[/quote]
U sir are overrated lol but yea some have overblown oz but at the same time i couldn't name any better

[Milton145]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1291537416' post='559623']
Regarding the back-to-back tight ends, you have to take into account Heap's age and health. Yeah, he's been great this year, but he's also been plagued by injuries off and on in the past. Add that into a complete lack of depth behind him, and you have a recipe for disaster, whether it be in the present with an injury, or the future with him retiring. I wasn't very happy with the back-to-back tight ends at first either, but with the tremendous upside that both Dickson and Pitta have, it could very well solidify the tight end position for the future.

Harewood went down with an injury, so we really can't pass any sort of judgment upon him (plus he was an extremely raw project for the team). Arthur Jones has been caught up in the little logjam on the defensive line this year. Kindle...well, we all know what happened with that gem. Reed's been showing his stuff on returns, and has the ability to maybe see the field as a receiver one day. That leaves Cody, who (despite my initial complaints) has shown tremendous heart and will to get into shape and give the game his all. For the limited amount of time he's been on the field, he's shown that he could become a great player if he keeps it up.

[b]What it boils down to is, our draft class from this year just hasn't gotten a ton of playtime. That's not a knock on them or their ability at all.[/b]
[/quote]


It just hows how talented our team is.

[RoflDogs]

Ozzies drafting skills are not overrated.......he's one of the best in the league

Compare him to other GMs in the league and their respective draft classes, and I think you will appreciate Ozzie A LOT more

[Jamal]

Ozzie had made some mistakes, but its impossible not to make one, when you've been around as long as hes been.

Ozzie has the least amount of mistakes. People remember Boller, but lets not forget Rice and Flacco in the same year if you want to go in recent time.

[cursona pirate]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1291564106' post='559700']
Ozzie had made some mistakes, but its impossible not to make one, when you've been around as long as hes been.

Ozzie has the least amount of mistakes. People remember Boller, but lets not forget Rice and Flacco in the same year if you want to go in recent time.
[/quote]
Flacco with a side of rice

[baltravens]

It has been something that I have always speculated about: Who is credited with drafting Boller? Has any light ever been shed on this?

[flynismo]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1291564106' post='559700']<br />Ozzie had made some mistakes, but its impossible not to make one, when you've been around as long as hes been. <br /><br />Ozzie has the least amount of mistakes. People remember Boller, but lets not forget Rice and Flacco in the same year if you want to go in recent time.<br />[/quote]


You make it sound as if Ozzie gets no respect lol. No one can deny that Oz is one of the best GMs in the business. Nor can anyone deny that overall he has done a great job in the draft over the years. But it doesn't mean that a lot of B-more fans overrate his draft skills. But for every draft class like 1996 and 2008, we have draft classes like 2004 and 2005.

[purple.n.black]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' timestamp='1291536425' post='559617']
his 1st and 3rd rd picks are insane and his UDFAs are even better. However, Boller was Billicks decision. If it was up to Oz, Im sure he would have went a different direction
[/quote]
I don't remember Boldin coming out of college. But if he is anywhere near as physical as he is now, and it was up to Oz not Billick, I think he would have drafted Boldin.
And flynismo, watch yourself! I got flamed for saying Oz is overrated. We all know he is great. One of the best there is. But like anyone he has some weaknesses that "experts" and others seem to ignore.

[BloodRaven]

2005 was an absolute stinker, Jason Brown was the only good pick from that draft and even that was a complete fluke.

[Jamal]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291565925' post='559730']
You make it sound as if Ozzie gets no respect lol. No one can deny that Oz is one of the best GMs in the business. Nor can anyone deny that overall he has done a great job in the draft over the years. But it doesn't mean that a lot of B-more fans overrate his draft skills. But for every draft class like 1996 and 2008, we have draft classes like 2004 and 2005.
[/quote]
Well someone said hes overrated, and I would disagree with that. Many deem him as one of the best drafters in the NFL, and at worse hes in the top 3. Every GM is going to have years like that. I can't think of 1 GM who hasn't had some bad drafts.

[Ravensdiciple96]

[quote name='AwakenTheDemon' timestamp='1291536893' post='559619']
No, I wouldn't call it a draft problem at all. If you look at the overall scheme of things, Ozzie [i]has[/i] been extremely successful with his draft picks. Let's just take his number one picks into account:
Ogden, R. Lewis, Boulware, Starks, McAlister, J. Lewis, Taylor, Heap, Reed, Suggs, Boller, Clayton, Ngata, Grubbs, Flacco, Oher

That's 42 Pro Bowl selections, 28 All-Pro selections (20 first team, 8 second team), 3 Rookies of the Year, 7 Defensive Players of the Year selections, an Offensive Player of the Year selection, and 4 members of the 2000's All-Decade team.

Out of all of those players picked, you can really only say Taylor, Boller, and Clayton didn't fully live up to their draft position. I think that's pretty damn good for a GM. The man may not be perfect, but he's probably as close as it gets when it comes to wheeling-and-dealing and selecting future talent in any round and from the undrafted free agency pool.
[/quote]

You can honestly argue how Ozzie drafts with these facts not stats, this person has found? Show me a better GM from another team that has had this much success from their drafting, as Ozzie has since he's been in Baltimore. I don't see how that can be over rated.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Jamal' timestamp='1291568928' post='559754']
Well someone said hes overrated, and I would disagree with that. Many deem him as one of the best drafters in the NFL, and at worse hes in the top 3. Every GM is going to have years like that. I can't think of 1 GM who hasn't had some bad drafts.
[/quote]

That someone was me lol...
Looking at all the busts he has drafted, and poor choices/missed opportunities, it's hard for me to put complete faith in him (dont even get me started on this year's draft) .... I think he's far from the infallible genius that a lot make him out to be. But I wouldn't trade him for any other GM in the league, Belichick is the only other person I'd want running this team.

[Ravensdiciple96]

[quote name='baltravens' timestamp='1291564524' post='559710']
It has been something that I have always speculated about: Who is credited with drafting Boller? Has any light ever been shed on this?
[/quote]


Boller??? Who is this guy you speak of??

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

Speculation.....Live and Learn....What if Kindle didn't fall down the steps....What if Kelly Gregg didn't roll up on Jamal in Pre-season...What if we didn't knock out the Squeelers QB on opening day and allow Ben to start after that and go 15-1....what if we kept Trent Dilfer....what if we kept Bart Scott and Ray signed with the Jets....etc

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='baltravens' timestamp='1291564524' post='559710']
It has been something that I have always speculated about: Who is credited with drafting Boller? Has any light ever been shed on this?
[/quote]
Though the majority of the blame has traditionally gone to Brian Billick (and rightfully so), Ozzie Newsome has come out in recent years and admitted a level of culpability. I don't have the exact quote, but he said something like he thought Boller would've been a quick study like he was at Cal under Jeff Tedford, who has now compiled a laundry list of bad NFL QBs with only Aaron Rodgers as his star pupil. Basically, the consensus was that he was a project but he wouldn't take long because he had the physical tools. This proved to be the case in Boller's NFL career, as he had the skill set to be a good QB but could never piece together the mental aspect.

Basically, it sounded like a 60-40 split where Billick was mostly responsible and Ozzie co-signed.

[flynismo]

[quote name='OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL' timestamp='1291570795' post='559770']
Speculation.....Live and Learn....What if Kindle didn't fall down the steps....What if Kelly Gregg didn't roll up on Jamal in Pre-season...What if we didn't knock out the Squeelers QB on opening day and allow Ben to start after that and go 15-1....what if we kept Trent Dilfer....what if we kept Bart Scott and Ray signed with the Jets....etc
[/quote]

Have no idea what you are trying to say?

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291571580' post='559777']
Have no idea what you are trying to say?
[/quote]
I think he's saying that this thread is one of those "what if" type threads that, at the end of the day, is just speculation and all we can really do is learn from it since we don't really know what would've happened had Boller not been drafted, had Kindle not had his accident, had Tommy Maddox not been knocked out for Roethlisberger to take over, etc.

[JohnJohnson]

It's not just Ozzie, our whole front office is extremely competent. You cannot avoid mistakes in the draft, and there is a factor of luck that you simply cannot escape. There are other front offices that do well, I know that we respect the Steelers' front office. Why did they pick outside linebackers this year?

[reediddy]

Think about how hard it is to draft players from college into the NFL. These players have shown what they can do against mild competition but in no way does that translate directly to success in the NFL, where the best-of-the-best play. The 2005 draft, for example, when we drafted Mark Clayton: Here's a guy who broke single-season receiving records at Oklahoma, by a huge margin at that. Biletnikoff Finalist, All-American, All-Big 12. Now imagine a receiver in the 2011 draft with that kind of resume; teams would be jumping head over heels to draft him. Of course, as evidenced by Clayton, it doesn't necessarily equate to success in this league because the competition is so much better. Clayton's problem was he couldn't get separation (and at times simply couldn't catch), but throw in his college highlight reel and he's doing it with ease.

Fact is, we have to be elated having Ozzie as our GM because he was able to look past the stats and the college success and truly analyze these players to see if they have what it takes to succeed in the league. His track record speaks for itself.