You're Hired!

[flynismo]

[quote name='PITCH52BLACK' timestamp='1291310994' post='557392']
great thread Fly!

but i have already been hired i guess...

cause....i do all of this you mentioned with the Ravens in madden11! LOL! i run both the Ravens Obook and the West Coast playbook at times and i be killing cats with the quick slants. my 2 back system is fierce and every now and then i run some of the 2TE sets you mentioned. Stallworth is a pure burner on the game clocking a 94 speed. he absolutely shreds defense on slants, drags and fade routes. Boldin, Mason and Housh catch everything thrown their way. Heap = Beast! nothing more to say there. Ray Rice and McGahee in the backfield at the same time....hellacious combo!

i don't know why Cam doesn't open up the playbook and become more creative by running this but, if he came to my house i would gladly pop in madden11 and give him a few pointers on how to maximize the Ravens talented roster in real-life. LOL!


[/quote]


ha! Maybe we need to chip in and get Cam a copy of Madden??

[flynismo]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1291310269' post='557381']
Not necessarily . We have faced more stiffer D's than last year and many have noted with the switching of our O-line ( Gaither , Yanda, Chester )which isn't playing better than it did last year has alot to do with it.
[/quote]

No offense, but trying to pin it on "stiiffer D's" (I assume the D stands for defense???) is a weak argument for two reasons. One being that over the course of the year, the schedule evens itself out. Secondly, at first glance it appears to me that we played more games against 'stiffer D' LAST year than we have this year. Two games against PIT last year, two games against the Bengals when they were actually good (top 5), Denver when they were the #1 ranked defense in the entire league, and GB. Six games against elite defenses.

This year we have played two games against elite defenses (PIT and NYJ).

And as I said before, the offensive line hasn't prevented individual players from having terrific seasons, so I cant accept that either.

[codizzle]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291318136' post='557526']

And as I said before, the offensive line hasn't prevented individual players from having terrific seasons, so I cant accept that either.
[/quote]
I agree with that but u can't say that the line hasn't hindered team production and thus team stats and rankings as was the original point i think that was trying to be made

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291318136' post='557526']
And as I said before, the offensive line hasn't prevented individual players from having terrific seasons, so I cant accept that either.
[/quote]

But wouldn't you agree the o-line hasn't opened up as many holes or afforded Joe with the kind of the protection they did last season?

The team's rushing average is down and the fact they run stretches and tosses exclusively to the left side is further proof the line hasn't been as been as good run blocking.

In terms of protection, simply looking at the sacks allowed doesn't tell the whole story either. I've seen Joe pressured almost immediately after the snap often whereas last season, I'd say the team surrendered more coverage sacks due to the lack of down-field options.

[flynismo]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1291318652' post='557532']
I agree with that but u can't say that the line hasn't hindered team production and thus team stats and rankings as was the original point i think that was trying to be made
[/quote]

That's where I'm hesitant to take a stand either way on.
We can both agree that the line has been inconsistent. So, where do we go from there? Your point that it is hindering production is a reasonable assumption. However, my point that players are still executing despite the OL, as well as the fact that we are playing poorly as a situational team (ie: our red zone inefficiency, 3rd and short) points to the scheme/playcalling.

And it could simply be a combination of both.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1291318857' post='557537']
But wouldn't you agree the o-line hasn't opened up as many holes or afforded Joe with the kind of the protection they did last season?

The team's rushing average is down and the fact they run stretches and tosses exclusively to the left side is further proof the line hasn't been as been as good run blocking.

In terms of protection, simply looking at the sacks allowed doesn't tell the whole story either. I've seen Joe pressured almost immediately after the snap often whereas last season, I'd say the team surrendered more coverage sacks due to the lack of down-field options.
[/quote]

In fairness, after the season Rice had last year, the YPC had nowhere to go but down ... but on the other hand, I don't think it should have dropped so significantly either. In no way am I denying that our line hasn't done a good job run blocking this year.
In pass protection, I think it's debateable .... our line has had it's and and downs this year, just like last season. I think last year they were more consistent though.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291319441' post='557552']
In fairness, after the season Rice had last year, the YPC had nowhere to go but down ... but on the other hand, I don't think it should have dropped so significantly either. In no way am I denying that our line hasn't done a good job run blocking this year.
In pass protection, I think it's debateable .... our line has had it's and and downs this year, just like last season. I think last year they were more consistent though.
[/quote]

Agreed.

Hopefully, the line comes ready to maul and protects Joe as well as they did in the first Steelers game.

[codizzle]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291319055' post='557543']
That's where I'm hesitant to take a stand either way on.
We can both agree that the line has been inconsistent. So, where do we go from there? Your point that it is hindering production is a reasonable assumption. However, my point that players are still executing despite the OL, as well as the fact that we are playing poorly as a situational team (ie: our red zone inefficiency, 3rd and short) points to the scheme/playcalling.

And it could simply be a combination of both.
[/quote]
yea i believe its a combination of things... that's why I haven't completely called out one area or person cause its hard to pinpoint or prove one specific area as the weak link.

[mdrsharon]

Cam is Cam nothing new and exciting (occasional end-around plays are fun - especially when they work.
My mother knows what we will be calling - these ideas are great, let's mix it up a little more.
Love the trick plays(remember the fake punt?).
Conservative play is unexciting.

[flynismo]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291222878' post='556216']
Your dreams have come true! Ozzie has been listening intently to your rants here on the forums about Cam Cameron, and decided to hire you to replace him, effective immediately.

So, what do you do differently?


Here is what I would do if I were Cam: jump off a bridge.

And here's what I'd do diifferently if I were OC:



1. Put Rice and McGahee on the field at the same time.

Call me crazy, but I think that having those two in the backfield at the same time would be lethal. Two WR, a TE, and two RB...the defense has no idea if we are running or passing, and even if they knew we were running, they would have no idea who is running it. In passing situations, it would leave one or even two RB protecting the QB while everyone is running their routes.



2. More two TE sets

the idea behind this is the same as the two RBs above -- the flexibility of the formation is outstanding. We can pass just as easily as we can run out of this formation.


3. Install our version of a hybrid west coast style offense.

I mean really, this is a no brainer when you look at our personnel. Quick slants over the middle with Boldin and Housh, WR screens, curls, etc ... Our wr were born for this. Of course, there will be plenty of plays in the playbook taking advantage of Joe's ability to throw the deep ball...but the emphasis is to stress a lot more short, quick passes than we currently employ.


4. Put Boldin in the slot

dude is a slot machine, this is another no-brainer that the current regime rarely takes advantage of.


5. Use McGahee almost exclusively to run the ball in the first half.


The idea is to wear down the defense with McGahee's more physical style of running, so that a fresh Rice can come in against a tiring defense in the second half. It is also to preserve both RB's by reducing their workloads over the course of the season.

6. Run an empty backfield a couple times each half.

We have Boldin/Mason/TJ/Stallworth. You cant double them all. Leave Heap on the line for extra protection.


7. Most important of all: give Flacco his balls back.


If he doesn't like a play I called, I'll give him the freedom to audible out of it. If we get a lead, I'll trust Flacco to make a few short completions; not just run run run punt.



Pretty basic stuff. It's not that difficult Cam, no matter how much you try to make it be so.
[/quote]



Bumping this thread, because I thought it was interesting and we need some "fresh" material to talk about!

[Kevin Mullins]

1. Run more Trips formations to free up a reciever
-- Recievers love being able to get off the line freely. Putting Heap and Boldin towards the top of a bunch, and putting Torrey Smith on their heels will undoubtedly cause mismatch issues for every team that plays us. Whether its a jab step and Go for Torrey, or a shield slant for Q...the bunch formation is hard to contain.

2. Employ deeper routes across the middle 1/3rd of the field. Boldin and Mase run great routes, and can truly put their foot into the ground in and out of breaks. Furthermore, with presence of Torrey, and possibly David Reed...sucking down a safety into the post territory is a definite advantage when going over the top.

3. Use more strong side run formations.

So what if teams notice Oher and Reid/Gaither are on the same side of the formation. Two maulers can clear out 2-4 guys with well employed blocks. Include a pulling guard or two, and hopefully McClain clearing out run scrapers. There is no reason we can't dominate the 5-8 holes. A guy like Rice can run over a corner, or make a safety miss, so having our line beat out the lead backers/lineman.

4. Utilize Pitta more often, as well as Dickson.

Pitta looks like a fullback in the making (SORTA). He isn't going to beat out dickson in athleticism, so he needs to diversify. Pitta has great hands and a flare route into the flats, or an angle route in front of a dropping MLB is sure fire way to convert those 3rd and 4s that are way too hard.

5. Use more Shotgun

Flacco has a cannon, and we now have speed. We need time to develop routes. No brainer here.

6. Tyrod has a unique skill set.

I remember Flacco making a catch, let's do that again. Let's run college options with Rice and Taylor.

OR put Flacco and Tyrod in the same backfield...run a version of the college option where Flacco could take the snap and possibly give it to Tyrod (who can run AND pass)...or keep it and run AND pass. This dual QB formation could freeze defensive ends, keep backers out of their drops....and possibly allow our guys time to get behind corners. Both quarterbacks have tremendous arm strength and would be able to get a deep ball out even on the run. I just imagine tons of broken coverages, and tons of deep...floating balls for Torrey, Q, and even Reed, Doss/Heap/Harbaugh lol to run under.

That shall be good for now.

[Bltravens]

Run the "ooptey oop"




Ya Varsity Blues was on TV last night lol

[Pedro Rhormes]

I absolutely agree with the 2 HB use. Get some new plays for a new "rush-playbook". Call it the Purple Rush. The situation?Imagine Flacco in a Shotgun position, but now with other blocker in his other side. We could have 2 Screen passes, we could do fake runs with Rice, and give it to McGahee, or fake McGahee to Rice. We could do inside runs, lateral toss to rice or mcgahee. With the WR blocking.

Ray Rice and Willis McGahee are one of the strongest HB combinations in NFL. Why not using it properly?

[jaege]

Why do we not use any of these great suggestions? That is an easy one. Cam is an idiot!!! Either that or he is a closet Steelers fan. I cannot see any other reason why he used our offense so poorly.

[Rav'n Maniac]

Show me the money first, then I'll tell you what I'm going to do!

[bravensfan52]

I would use more slants for Q and Mase.
Use Pitta more (Is a Heap/Clark clone)
stop the end rounds
more 4 and 5 wide sets (To beat pitt. GB showed you the way last super bowl)
Use RR like Brian Westbrook and LT were use 50% run 50% pass
Use Ngata more as a FB on 3&1 and some FB Dive with Ngata
More 2 TE and 2RB Sets

[wayne]

Absolutely call more slant plays, Boldin was bred for that
Give Flacco the ability to audible out
More shotgun
More 3 WR sets with a TE and a RB ( spread offense )
Occassionally throw in a trick play ( wildcat included possibly )
Use two TE sets more
Use more bubble screens for aggressive D's ( like Steelers )

[flynismo]

[quote name='bravensfan52' timestamp='1306622789' post='691646']<br />I would use more slants for Q and Mase.<br />Use Pitta more (Is a Heap/Clark clone) <br />stop the end rounds<br />more 4 and 5 wide sets (To beat pitt. GB showed you the way last super bowl)<br />Use RR like Brian Westbrook and LT were use 50% run 50% pass<br />Use Ngata more as a FB on 3&amp;1 and some FB Dive with Ngata <img src='http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /><br />More 2 TE and 2RB Sets<br />[/quote]


reason #478 that I cant stand Cameron.
It hasn't exactly been a secret over the last decade that the way to beat PIT is to spread them out and attack their secondary.

But Cam never got that memo.

And in case any is thinking 'well, our OL was terrible, it would be even worse in a spread offense with 3-4 wr constantly on the field'

to that I respond 'how much worse could our pass protection have possibly been when we played PIT?'

[Rav'n Maniac]

You know, this may sound kinda general but, you use your players to their strengths and you play call to accommodate them in being successful with subtle twists and turns along the course of the game. It could really be that simple to help our offense become the juggernaut it should be.

[mgridda]

Cam Cameron is a Pro-Form Coryell-Style Offensive Coordinator.

Coryell Style relies on deep routes.
Pro-Form relies on a fullback, a tightend, a halfback and 2 WRs.

Basically meaning most of your suggestions would exist outside of Cam Cameron's "identity." If we want to do a lot of slants, hooks, flares and other short routes predicated on timing then we'd have to admit that's the exact opposite of Coryell-Style and we'd need to go out and get a West Coast Offensive Coordinator.

If we were to go Spread Form (but retain the Coryell style: like Mike Martz) then we'd pay the price in our running game and what we could do in using the run to disguise going deep. With a back like Ray Rice - though - we should be successful running the ball out of the spread.

If we want to go Wishbone (2 HBs opposite sides to each other in the backfield w/ the QB) then we would be going in a different direction, also. The Broncos used to love the Wishbone back in the 90s. They had success with that, but really we'd need to attack outside of the 6 holes to do that.


In general, Coryell offenses choose to focus on stretching defenses vertically with the big passing play to push back run defenders, rather than forcing the defense closer with short passes like the Bill Walsh West Coast offense. As a result, it often depends on higher risk passing game. The loss of a key WR can totally cripple an offense by removing its ability to stretch defenses or score in the red zone.

[mgridda]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1306638882' post='691672']
reason #478 that I cant stand Cameron.
It hasn't exactly been a secret over the last decade that the way to beat PIT is to spread them out and attack their secondary.

But Cam never got that memo.

And in case any is thinking 'well, our OL was terrible, it would be even worse in a spread offense with 3-4 wr constantly on the field'

to that I respond 'how much worse could our pass protection have possibly been when we played PIT?'
[/quote]

The problem was the offensive line. The Coryell system relies on a good offensive line because the routes are deeper and take longer to mature.

Cameron - like Martz (who passes heavy and forgets the run), Norv Turner, Al Saunders and even Tom Moore/Peyton Manning (who go out of a Run n' Shoot formation) - has most of the routes in his playbook as deeper pass plays. It looked promising in 2009 when we had an elite offensiveline.

When Gaither went down and we played musical chairs along the offensive line; the offense failed horribly as a consequent.

We're not an offense predicated on quick, short, timing routes and quick passes. Hence why Boldin struggled, too.

I imagine Cam Cameron will change many things for next year. Many little things. He's itching to get that playbook to people.

[flynismo]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291222878' post='556216']
Your dreams have come true! Ozzie has been listening intently to your rants here on the forums about Cam Cameron, and decided to hire you to replace him, effective immediately.

So, what do you do differently?


Here is what I would do if I were Cam: jump off a bridge.

And here's what I'd do diifferently if I were OC:



1. Put Rice and McGahee on the field at the same time.

Call me crazy, but I think that having those two in the backfield at the same time would be lethal. Two WR, a TE, and two RB...the defense has no idea if we are running or passing, and even if they knew we were running, they would have no idea who is running it. In passing situations, it would leave one or even two RB protecting the QB while everyone is running their routes.



2. More two TE sets

the idea behind this is the same as the two RBs above -- the flexibility of the formation is outstanding. We can pass just as easily as we can run out of this formation.


3. Install our version of a hybrid west coast style offense.

I mean really, this is a no brainer when you look at our personnel. Quick slants over the middle with Boldin and Housh, WR screens, curls, etc ... Our wr were born for this. Of course, there will be plenty of plays in the playbook taking advantage of Joe's ability to throw the deep ball...but the emphasis is to stress a lot more short, quick passes than we currently employ.


4. Put Boldin in the slot

dude is a slot machine, this is another no-brainer that the current regime rarely takes advantage of.


5. Use McGahee almost exclusively to run the ball in the first half.


The idea is to wear down the defense with McGahee's more physical style of running, so that a fresh Rice can come in against a tiring defense in the second half. It is also to preserve both RB's by reducing their workloads over the course of the season.

6. Run an empty backfield a couple times each half.

We have Boldin/Mason/TJ/Stallworth. You cant double them all. Leave Heap on the line for extra protection.


7. Most important of all: give Flacco his balls back.


If he doesn't like a play I called, I'll give him the freedom to audible out of it. If we get a lead, I'll trust Flacco to make a few short completions; not just run run run punt.



Pretty basic stuff. It's not that difficult Cam, no matter how much you try to make it be so.
[/quote]




Was thinking about this thread after all the complaints over the TEN game. Even though the personnel has changed since I originally made this thread, my thoughts still hold true.

Given the new crew we have, what adjustments would you like to see?

[Florida Ravens Fan]

- More two tight end sets.
- Would like to see Leach get a couple/more carries.
- Kindle be activated
- more come back routes.
-More of Mcphee and Art jones
- want see some[b] Tandon[/b]

I could keep on but thats a few!

[The Raven]

I want to see execution. We proved against Pittsburgh we can execute the schemes, offensive and defensive. The players proved that Cam is not the issue. They kinda dug themselves a hole where they can't "use Cam as a crutch" when they do bad. The players need to execute, now that THEY proved, against arguably the best defense in the NFL, that Cam's schemes can be executed.

[AsianRice]

I thought this thread was buried......

[Alexir]

When down 2 scores with 7 minutes to go, I would go into shotgun instead of using PLAY ACTION LIKE YOU ARE FOOLING ANYONE!

Sorry for yelling, It just ticks me off.

I would also attack the middle of the field a lot more and give my rookies a chance because you win starting jobs on Sundays. Yeah you get the looks in practice but they need real game experience.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1316740121' post='801459']
When down 2 scores with 7 minutes to go, I would go into shotgun instead of using PLAY ACTION LIKE YOU ARE FOOLING ANYONE!

Sorry for yelling, It just ticks me off.

I would also attack the middle of the field a lot more and give my rookies a chance because[b] you win starting jobs on Sundays[/b]. Yeah you get the looks in practice but they need real game experience.
[/quote]

No you don't. You win jobs in camp. If they can't trust you in practice, why should they trust you in a game?

Agreed on all other points.

[Alexir]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1316740250' post='801460']

No you don't. You win jobs in camp. If they can't trust you in practice, why should they trust you in a game?

Agreed on all other points.
[/quote]

Torrey had an amazing camp and so did Doss. Practicing in shorts or sweats is one thing but live game action is the only way to get these guys broken into the NFL.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1316740787' post='801465']

Torrey had an amazing camp and so did Doss. Practicing in shorts or sweats is one thing but live game action is the only way to get these guys broken into the NFL.
[/quote]

So you're saying that they had TC in sweats and shorts every day? And I don't completely disagree, but they are practicing against other NFL players. What needs to be done is for them to play the game. It's a game! and rookies tend to overthink it. Just play football.

[Guest ArmyRaven52]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1316740250' post='801460']

No you don't. You win jobs in camp. If they can't trust you in practice, why should they trust you in a game?

Agreed on all other points.
[/quote]

I hate to disagree again, so I wont. However to that I will say is that it really is a mix. Look at Flacco for instance, he was not supposed to start that early but injuries and illness are a [i]<bear>. [/i]Stevie johnson same story, there are a lot of guys who have won them on sundays, but there are also a lot who win in training camp as well, it really just boils down to who is ready when the opportunity presents itself.