Why Are We Just Content?

[steeldude]

It was a gift interception-do you think Ben would have made that throw. We had a chance to get into field goal range and Batch blew it. Bottom line is I think this weekend will be an eye opening experience for one of us !

[bdravens]

[quote name='steeldude' timestamp='1291162842' post='555618']
It was a gift interception-do you think Ben would have made that throw. We had a chance to get into field goal range and Batch blew it. Bottom line is I think this weekend will be an eye opening experience for one of us !
[/quote]
I didn't know you could read his mind, he has in fact thrown INT's before...

[steeldude]

[quote name='bdravens' timestamp='1291162991' post='555620']
I didn't know you could read his mind, he has in fact thrown INT's before...
[/quote]
Yes he has but I think that one will have the distinction of being the last one of his career!

[bdravens]

[quote name='steeldude' timestamp='1291163158' post='555624']
Yes he has but I think that one will have the distinction of being the last one of his career!
[/quote]
Lol. We'll see about that one...

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='steeldude' timestamp='1291162842' post='555618']
It was a gift interception-do you think Ben would have made that throw. We had a chance to get into field goal range and Batch blew it. Bottom line is I think this weekend will be an eye opening experience for one of us !
[/quote]

No, Ben probably wouldn't have made that throw but he wasn't on the field so speculating on it is useless.

[flynismo]

,[quote name='hammer' timestamp='1291158792' post='555551']<br />Of course it was Joes first year, and Harbaughs too.  But its the OC who is held accountable for the offense.  If you hold him accountable, then it seems obvious that you have to give him the credit too.  Thats only logical.<br /><br />And I am still confused as to how you measure &quot;when the gameplan doesnt work?&quot;  You obviously not using QB development?  You are not using total offense?  You are not using wins and losses?<br /><br />And what do you mean by &quot;leaving the D on the field with &quot;3 and Outs?&quot;  The Ravens are 9th in the NFL in First Downs (228).<br /><br />Then you say Cam is doing the same thing with Joe as 2008?  Look at the facts.<br /><br /><b>08</b>  428 att/ 257 comp,  60% pct,  2971 yds,  14 td/12 int,  185.7 ypg, 11th t off<br /><br /><b>09</b>  499 att/315 comp,  63.1 pct,  3613 yds,  21 td/12 int,  225.8 ypg, 9th t off<br /><br /><b>10</b>                     63.5 pct,                            247.5 ypg<br /><br />Nah, Cam is giving Joe more responsibility in the offense at the right pace and Joe is the direct beneficiary of it.  <br /><br />Come on dude, you guys have got to stop this madness.  Cam is the best OC the Ravens have had since Ted Marchibroda.  He has no team speed to work with on he offense.  His oline is suspect, both as pass protector and run blockers. Against any given opponent, Cam has to make adjustments according to how his guys are faring on the field.  The Ravens are not &quot;proliffic&quot; passers (lack of pass protection and team speed), nor are they smashmouth runners (lack of a dominant o-line).  He is actually getting the most he possibly can get with this mix of personnel.<br />[/quote]

I agree that Cam deserves credit as well as criticism, since he is the OC.


But you will have a hard time convincing me that with three Pro Bowl WR, a Pro Bowl TE, two Pro Bowl RB, and an MVP candidate at QB that he is getting anywhere near the maximum results that he could/should be getting with the talent he has at his disposal.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[flynismo]

[quote name='steeldude' timestamp='1291162842' post='555618']<br />It was a gift interception-do you think Ben would have made that throw. We had a chance to get into field goal range and Batch blew it. Bottom line is I think this weekend will be an eye opening experience for one of us !<br />[/quote]

he might have, he might not have thrown a pick on that play or any ensuing play. Even if he did not, its a heck of an assumption to make that you would have driven all the way to FG range from that distance with only 30-something seconds on the clock.

[steeldude]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291163832' post='555641']
he might have, he might not have thrown a pick on that play or any ensuing play. Even if he did not, its a heck of an assumption to make that you would have driven all the way to FG range from that distance with only 30-something seconds on the clock.
[/quote]

Well I don't know how I could make such an assumption - the Falcons did it in less than a minute I suppose we might have been able to as well!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='steeldude' timestamp='1291165114' post='555674']
Well I don't know how I could make such an assumption - the Falcons did it in less than a minute I suppose we might have been able to as well!
[/quote]

But we'll never know because Ben acted a fool off the field.

[steeldude]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1291165335' post='555676']
But we'll never know because Ben acted a fool off the field.
[/quote]

Well I have to agree with him acting a fool but no charges were filed-so we will never know. But one thing I know for sure that game would have been much different if Ben had been playing!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='steeldude' timestamp='1291165765' post='555682']
Well I have to agree with him acting a fool but no charges were filed-so we will never know. But one thing I know for sure that game would have been much different if Ben had been playing!
[/quote]

Obviously but he wasn't, so why continue to harp on it?

Despite the drama going on regarding his ankle(typical), Ben will be playing Sunday night so that's where the focus should be.

[steeldude]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1291165984' post='555683']
Obviously but he wasn't, so why continue to harp on it?

Despite the drama going on regarding his ankle(typical), Ben will be playing Sunday night so that's where the focus should be.
[/quote]
Ben will be playing - like I said I wish we were both at full strength that way there would be no excuses Monday morning! When you speak of no one caring what I think do you speak for all of Raven Nation? I certainly hope not!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='steeldude' timestamp='1291166307' post='555686']
Ben will be playing - like I said I wish we were both at full strength that way there would be no excuses Monday morning! When you speak of no one caring what I think do you speak for all of Raven Nation? I certainly hope not!
[/quote]

What if I am? You randomly produced a play-off picture on a topic that had nothing to do with that topic.

You're subtle trolling has gotten old.

[hammer]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291163567' post='555633']
,

I agree that Cam deserves credit as well as criticism, since he is the OC.


But you will have a hard time convincing me that with three Pro Bowl WR, a Pro Bowl TE, two Pro Bowl RB, and an MVP candidate at QB that he is getting anywhere near the maximum results that he could/should be getting with the talent he has at his disposal.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
[/quote]

3 pro bowl wrs? Now thats clever. How long ago? Thats like saying the old Muhummad Ali is the Heavywieght Champ (true) all the while Larry Holmes is pummeling him into submission. Did you include the Hall of Famers too? Obviously nothing gets by Ray Ray. He is a HOF'er, remember. C'mon Fly, that post qualifies as trickery. LOL.

SMH.

[flynismo]

[quote name='hammer' timestamp='1291168780' post='555712']
3 pro bowl wrs? Now thats clever. How long ago? Thats like saying the old Muhummad Ali is the Heavywieght Champ (true) all the while Larry Holmes is pummeling him into submission. Did you include the Hall of Famers too? Obviously nothing gets by Ray Ray. He is a HOF'er, remember. C'mon Fly, that post qualifies as trickery. LOL.

SMH.
[/quote]

Okay, I stand corrected, since TJ is not playing like a Pro Bowler this year, and Mason is merely a high quality #2. So that leaves Cam with what? An elite WR (Boldin), a terrific #2 in Mason, the most talented #3 WR in the league (TJ), a Pro Bowl TE, an elite RB and a RB who scored 14 TDs last year backing him up, and a QB in the MVP race.
Point still stands that Cam can and should be getting much more than average results from this offense.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='hammer' timestamp='1291168780' post='555712']
3 pro bowl wrs? Now thats clever. How long ago? Thats like saying the old Muhummad Ali is the Heavywieght Champ (true) all the while Larry Holmes is pummeling him into submission. Did you include the Hall of Famers too? Obviously nothing gets by Ray Ray. He is a HOF'er, remember. C'mon Fly, that post qualifies as trickery. LOL.

SMH.
[/quote]

Housh 2007
Mason 3rd alternate 2008
Boldin 2007

It is only 2010. I don't really think that's all that long ago. SMH.

[hammer]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1291162367' post='555613']
I'm pretty sure the players are held accountable as well. You wanted to give Cam ALL the credit like he came in with the same offensive personnel as the year before and that is not the case.



Cincy game. NE game. Falcons game. And remember, I am not talking about the game as a whole. I am talking about making adjustments when things are not working. You keep trying to make this about the season or about an entire game or about wins and losses. I am talking about specific situations. I do believe I said he is not horrible and has good game plans most of the time. When that fails however, he does not make the adjustment or makes them too late.



Again, you are talking about a big picture and I am talking about the 4th quarter. My post clearly stated [i]at the end of the game.[/i]



We have 3 pro bowl WRs on this team. You think they are being used to the best of their ability? Nah. That is not happening.

We have 2 pro bowl RBs on this team and a pro bowl FB. You think they are being used to the best of their ability? Nah. That is not happening.

We have IMO a pro bowl TE on this team and two very promising rookies. One at least that we know has speed in Dickson. You think they are being used to the best of their ability? No.

We run almost no 2 TE sets. We rarely, if ever, run 4 WR sets. And it is also rare to see McGahee and Rice in the back field. There is no creativity in this offensive scheme for the most part. That makes it way too easy for defenses to figure out. And when they make the adjustment and shut it down, Cam has no answer for it. He just keeps on keeping on. And we fail.
[/quote]

I suspect you are talking about past pro bowlers, on past teams, in past years and making the assumption they are all having pro bowl years today. Thats really not true.

But you do make a valid argument that the Ravens are rich in a quality level of experience. In fact, that is exactly what explains why the Ravens keep winning while never playing a fully dominant game..... gritty experience and a will to win.

However, all that experience has allowed the Ravens to overcome some major flaws.

1. Lack of overall team speed.
2. Lack of a good pass blocking o-line.
3. Lack of a good run blocking o-line.
4. Lack of creating turnovers, which give the O short fields (25th in league)

The Ravens are not a physically dominant team, neither athleticism, power, or spped. They need perfect execution on every play to win their one on one battles. This is why the games are always close. This is a challenge on both sides of the ball. Believe it or not, both Cam and Mattison have similar problems in this regard.

This Ravens team is using guile, experience and will, as opposed to speed, strength and power. They have to figure out how to win from game to game and they have been quite successful at doing it. This is common with veteran teams. The ravens experience will win more than they lose. The question is how will that play come playoff time. The Pittsburgh game just might gove us a glimpse.

[hammer]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291174399' post='555837']
Okay, I stand corrected, since TJ is not playing like a Pro Bowler this year, and Mason is merely a high quality #2. So that leaves Cam with what? An elite WR (Boldin), a terrific #2 in Mason, the most talented #3 WR in the league (TJ), a Pro Bowl TE, an elite RB and a RB who scored 14 TDs last year backing him up, and a QB in the MVP race.
Point still stands that Cam can and should be getting much more than average results from this offense.
[/quote]

Ok, the day I see Vegas odds makers start posting "resumes" as an NFL stat line, I'll accept your argument. But yeah, I know, I know, they are not as smart as the fans. Yeah, I know. Lol.

[hammer]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1291174573' post='555843']
Housh 2007
Mason 3rd alternate 2008
Boldin 2007

It is only 2010. I don't really think that's all that long ago. SMH.
[/quote]

But you are right, they really are nice resumes though.

[flynismo]

[quote name='hammer' timestamp='1291177678' post='555887']
Ok, the day I see Vegas odds makers start posting "resumes" as an NFL stat line, I'll accept your argument. But yeah, I know, I know, they are not as smart as the fans. Yeah, I know. Lol.
[/quote]

So, in other words, you have no real argument against the fact that our offense is stacked with talent. It's easier if you just say so instead of beating around the bush about it.

[flynismo]

[quote name='hammer' timestamp='1291177205' post='555882']

The Ravens are not a physically dominant team, neither athleticism, power, or spped. They need perfect execution on every play to win their one on one battles. This is why the games are always close. This is a challenge on both sides of the ball. Believe it or not, both Cam and Mattison have similar problems in this regard.
[/quote]

Others would say that it is because our defense is simply getting old and tire in the fourth quarter, resulting in blown leads, as well as shoddy/conservative playcalling.

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

I think our wideouts strike fear in Pittsbg, I am sure their main gameplan will be to try and pressure the hell out of Flacco to try and take advantage of our new Oline. Look for Ray Rice to have a stellar day - think we haven't forgotten the IMAGINARY BREAKING OF THE PLANE by Holmes?

[wayne]

[quote name='hammer' timestamp='1291177205' post='555882']
I suspect you are talking about past pro bowlers, on past teams, in past years and making the assumption they are all having pro bowl years today. Thats really not true.

But you do make a valid argument that the Ravens are rich in a quality level of experience. In fact, that is exactly what explains why the Ravens keep winning while never playing a fully dominant game..... gritty experience and a will to win.

However, all that experience has allowed the Ravens to overcome some major flaws.

1. Lack of overall team speed.
2. Lack of a good pass blocking o-line.
3. Lack of a good run blocking o-line.
4. Lack of creating turnovers, which give the O short fields (25th in league)

The Ravens are not a physically dominant team, neither athleticism, power, or spped. They need perfect execution on every play to win their one on one battles. This is why the games are always close. This is a challenge on both sides of the ball. Believe it or not, both Cam and Mattison have similar problems in this regard.

This Ravens team is using guile, experience and will, as opposed to speed, strength and power. They have to figure out how to win from game to game and they have been quite successful at doing it. This is common with veteran teams. The ravens experience will win more than they lose. The question is how will that play come playoff time. The Pittsburgh game just might gove us a glimpse.
[/quote]

To add to this, most teams in the league fit the description you typed out about the Ravens. You note the reason why the Ravens have so many close games, yet, you can go back and look at the score boards, every team this year has had more close games than not. Parity in the league has everything to do with this, not that the coaches for the Ravens have to call a near to perfect game or having no speed or no pass rush ( etc...). Every team has to figure out a way to win game to game in todays NFL.. Overal, we are just as talented as the next team as shown by our record and even our losses as they were all close. I'm tired of people saying we have a few great players with a bunch of mediocre players, almost every team can contest to that ( we cant have Pro-Bowlers alway across the board).

[reediddy]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291178664' post='555892']
So, in other words, you have no real argument against the fact that our offense is stacked with talent. It's easier if you just say so instead of beating around the bush about it.
[/quote]

There is absolutely no doubt that our offense is stacked with talent. The reason we can't utilize it all to our potential is because our offensive line has not played one good game this entire year. They aren't run blocking especially well and they are not pass blocking especially well. For crying out loud they couldn't push back the Bucs defensive front, I know they are no pushovers but that's the 28th ranked rush defense for a reason. And when it comes to pass protection we are not very good in any area, especially the tackles who get beat to the outside a lot and are consistently confused by stunts.

If our offensive line can somehow pick it up for the rest of the season you will see our offense explode. Until then, we will continue to be an above-average offense

[flynismo]

[quote name='reediddy' timestamp='1291180815' post='555927']
There is absolutely no doubt that our offense is stacked with talent. The reason we can't utilize it all to our potential is because our offensive line has not played one good game this entire year. They aren't run blocking especially well and they are not pass blocking especially well. For crying out loud they couldn't push back the Bucs defensive front, I know they are no pushovers but that's the 28th ranked rush defense for a reason. And when it comes to pass protection we are not very good in any area, especially the tackles who get beat to the outside a lot and are consistently confused by stunts.

If our offensive line can somehow pick it up for the rest of the season you will see our offense explode. Until then, we will continue to be an above-average offense
[/quote]

No doubt, our OL has been, at best, inconsistent.

However, that has not prevented individual players from putting up fine seasons. Flacco, Boldin, Heap, Rice and Mason (for a #2) are all having very good seasons, yet statistically, we are literally average ( 17th in points, 14th in yards, 16th in pass yards, 14th in rush yards).
The OL certainly is not helping, but it is not preventing us from executing either. When you have that many guys having good seasons, I think there is more to it than simply looking at the OL.

[True]

I pretty much agree with all your points fly. Currently this team is scoring 7 points less than last year. With all the added skill positions why aren't they scoring more points on offense? Yeah the OL is a little banged up, but it's not to the point where Flacco is scrambling for his life on every play. If protection is an issue then Cam can easily call shotgun plays (to give Joe an extra second or two pass), 3 step drops with slants to Boldin (the best WR with YAC), or even go max protect with RB/TE to help him get the ball out.

I'm worried about when the Saints come here and their fast up tempo offense. They don't stop till they are beating you by at least double digits, and even then keep scoring. With the current philosophy the Ravens offense has it will not be a good matchup for us. To not even cross mid field until late in the 4th during the Bucs game was very concerning. Keep pressing, try new plays, and get more players involved. Joe is no longer a game manager, he is in control of this offense and if he wants to be an elite QB in the league, then Cam needs to let him play all four quarters.

[hammer]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1291180266' post='555912']
To add to this, most teams in the league fit the description you typed out about the Ravens. You note the reason why the Ravens have so many close games, yet, you can go back and look at the score boards, every team this year has had more close games than not. Parity in the league has everything to do with this, not that the coaches for the Ravens have to call a near to perfect game or having no speed or no pass rush ( etc...). Every team has to figure out a way to win game to game in todays NFL.. Overal, we are just as talented as the next team as shown by our record and even our losses as they were all close. I'm tired of people saying we have a few great players with a bunch of mediocre players, almost every team can contest to that ( we cant have Pro-Bowlers alway across the board).
[/quote]

Very true.

[hammer]

[quote name='reediddy' timestamp='1291180815' post='555927']
There is absolutely no doubt that our offense is stacked with talent. The reason we can't utilize it all to our potential is because our offensive line has not played one good game this entire year. They aren't run blocking especially well and they are not pass blocking especially well. For crying out loud they couldn't push back the Bucs defensive front, I know they are no pushovers but that's the 28th ranked rush defense for a reason. And when it comes to pass protection we are not very good in any area, especially the tackles who get beat to the outside a lot and are consistently confused by stunts.

If our offensive line can somehow pick it up for the rest of the season you will see our offense explode. Until then, we will continue to be an above-average offense
[/quote]

Great point.

[hammer]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291181764' post='555957']
No doubt, our OL has been, at best, inconsistent.

However, that has not prevented individual players from putting up fine seasons. Flacco, Boldin, Heap, Rice and Mason (for a #2) are all having very good seasons, yet statistically, we are literally average ( 17th in points, 14th in yards, 16th in pass yards, 14th in rush yards).
The OL certainly is not helping, but it is not preventing us from executing either. When you have that many guys having good seasons, I think there is more to it than simply looking at the OL.
[/quote]
Ahh. Finally we have something to agree upon. The o-line is inconsistent. I think you are trying to say there is a problem with executiion of designed plays. Ok, Im with you on that.

Then you say that a number of offensive players are having very good seasons. I agree with you again. Great job Cam. Thanks Fly.

[hammer]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291178664' post='555892']
So, in other words, you have no real argument against the fact that our offense is stacked with talent. It's easier if you just say so instead of beating around the bush about it.
[/quote]

No, not really. But th eproof you are alluding to could also be applied to some "punch drunk" boxer. Use Kelly Gregg for instance. Now I really do love him, but last year has absolutely no comparison to this year. Injuries and different systems, and change of schemes happen from year to year. You cant possibly use past accolades to prove anything but experience (and I accept that).

The ravens are certainly not devoid of talent. They are devoid of a dominant o-line and team speed. They have a very good offense, but it is not a proliffic one. That has something to do with Cam, but not as much as you think.