Why Are We Just Content?

[wayne]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291019560' post='553798']
Just another example of why cam needs to go.
[/quote]
You and Ed wants Cam to go, yet, you are for Mattison? Smh!!!!

[hammer]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1291005702' post='553689']
He's trying to minimize our exposure to turnovers, but its back firing. Its like, in golf, taking a 3/4 swing and chunking it. If I take a full swing everytime I hit it pure everytime. Go full speed for 4 quarters and I feel we play a different game. A game we all know can be played and what we want/need to see!

Was the golf analogy a stretch?
[/quote]

[b]He's trying to minimize our exposure to turnovers, but its back firing.[/b]

Your first statement makes sense, but I don't see it as backfiring. It worked and we won. If Joe had thrown an int w/ a 10 point lead we would be calling for both of their heads. Therefore, ALL NFL teams become at least a "little bit" conservative with a 10 point lead.

The difference is: when you have a "proliffic offense" (which the Ravens are not), even the conservative plays get YAC for big gains and they continue to score. One of the problems keeping the Ravens from being a proliffic offense is they lack great team speed (this is also the problem for the D too). The Ravens have decent enough players, but overall their team speed is lacking. Therefore, they use guile, will, and experience to beat their opponents.

They are getting as much out of the offensive personnel as they possibly can. All of the improvements over the season has been because of Flaccos development. They will go as far as Joe can take them and he is actually looking more and more capable by the day.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1291086590' post='554748']
You and Ed wants Cam to go, yet, you are for Mattison? Smh!!!!
[/quote]

What's wrong with that?! Would you be happy if we wanted BOTH coordinators gone?

Shake your head all you want, people are entitled to their opinions.

Instead of shaking your head, how aout addressing my counter point in the "opions with evidence" thread".

[hammer]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291019560' post='553798']
Just another example of why cam needs to go.
[/quote]

Cam is the best OC the Ravens have had since Ted Marchibroda. I don't understand your logic.

[bdravens]

I still get the feeling that our best has yet to come.

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='hammer' timestamp='1291086138' post='554737']
[b]Listen, I know we won, so don't give me the "we won" responses because I'm well aware.[/b]

Sorry, but if we are going to have an intelligent discussion on the topic, you have to at least consider the outcome of the strategy you are complaining about. It is pecular to begin an argument by eliminating evidence.

[b]Now what the main focus of this topic is, is to ask why you guys think [u]Cameron stays content[/u] when we get up by a short lead.[/b]

This is a baseless premise that "Cam stays content when getting a short lead." You have provided no evidence to support that claim. My assumption is that you are refering to the game against Tampa Bay and I couldnt disagree with you more.

[b]Why do we have Flacco run a sneak when we are a yard away? Why don't we hand it off to one of our three Pro Bowl RB's?[/b]

Hindsight is 20/20, but I really believe that QB sneaks have a high ratio of success on short yardage (my imperical experience). Tampa Bay was successful themselves on a QB sneak in the same game and Joe has been successful more often than not.

[b]Why don't we ever try to go for the knockout blow, instead of running little screen passes then repetitively punting the ball? [/b]

Those little screen passes probably account for half of the big passing plays (Rice and McGehee) the Ravens have over the last two years. Rice actually took one of them 77 yards if not for the blown call. Screen passes, as one of the other posters commented carry a much lower risk of turnovers than chucking the ball downfield. If Joe had thrown an int, you would have been all over the both of them. And rightfully so.

[b]Honestly, Cam is so predictable. I could almost tell what every third down would look like before it was snapped.[/b]

The word "honestly" doesnt qualify as evidence that you could tell every play before the snap. And "honestly" I flat out dont believe you on it.

[b]So why do you guys think we never attack down field anymore when we have a short lead?[/b]

This is also baseless, because it is not true. The Ravens continued to throw the ball down field even after getting the lead. They just werent as successful.

[b]Let's keep attacking, keep putting up points so teams don't even have a chance to come close at the end of a game.[/b]

Attacking and putting up points are not automatically connected. Execution must be successful to connect the two. The Ravens did not execute as well in the second half. The defens made some nice adjustments and the chess match went to another level. But if not for the blown call on the Rice screen pass, we probably would not be having this discussion at all. I thought the Ravens stayed aggressive throughout, until late in the 4th qtr. Thats when they shifted to playing against the clock. BTW, that was the right thing to do also.
[/quote]

Take a chill pill, the point of my topic was not to present negativitiy, it was a simple question and statement that obviously a lot of fans seem to be frustrated as well.

My evidence of Cam doing this has been spread around this season. He's not a very good OC, that's proof. Flacco would probably be better off without him. That's an opinion. This topic is an opinion. When it's 3rd and medium or long, it's always a draw, a screen pass or just a simple run when we have a short lead. Have you not been watching a lot of games this season? Attacking and putting up points [i]are[/i] connected. I want to see the Ravens being fast, striking to put up points to put the opponent away, I am not content with putting our defense out there at risk when we should have ball control, at least attempting to get into field goal range. We didn't score a single point in the second half yesterday, are you content with that? Were you content, knowing that Freeman already has six 4th quarter come backs in his short career, watching him orchestrate his offense late in the fourth to possible get within less than a possession?

We won, I know this, and dammit I'm happy. But I'm not happy that an offense like ours is only scoring 17 poinys at home with [b]none[/b] in the second half against a very young Tampa Bay defense. You don't have to believe me, hell I don't care, but my opinion is my opinion.

[hammer]

[quote name='Ed_Reed_Pick_Six' timestamp='1291006271' post='553702']
Our play calling is moronic at times. That sneak was so poorly executed it actually injured Oher. I actually yelled at my laptop for about 20 seconds at that play. [b]GIVE IT TO WILLIS OR RICE[/b].

Asides from that, our play calling illustrates an identity crisis. You can see the 'pound the rock' approach that we are used to as opposed to having these new weapons in the passing game, and how this is playing on the mind of Cameron & co.

Why we don't use more spread offence throughout the game is beyond me. Boldin, Mason, Houshmandzadeh, Stallworth, even get Heap out there. How does ANY defence contain those weapons, as well as probably the best receiving halfback in the NFL coming out of the backfield - or just taking the ball on a draw handoff.

Just a thought.
[/quote]

[b]Our play calling is moronic at times.[/b]

Obviously you are entitled to your opinion, but exagerating a point doesnt exacty support your argument. The year before Cam arrived, the Ravens finished 24th in total scoring (2007). Cams first year, the Ravens jumped to 11th (2008). In 2009 they jumped again to 9th. Moronic?

[b]That sneak was so poorly executed it actually injured Oher.[/b]

Now THAT sir, is just pure fantasy.

[b]Asides from that, our play calling illustrates an identity crisis. You can see the 'pound the rock' approach that we are used to as opposed to having these new weapons in the passing game, and how this is playing on the mind of Cameron & co.[/b]

The Ravens do not have an identity crisis. They just lack the team speed to be proliffic passing, and they lack the o-line to be a smashmouth team. thats not a crisis, but personnel issues. They get as much out of this offense as possible. Actually, Flacco development and Anquan Bolden is responsible for all of their improvements this year.

[b]Why we don't use more spread offence throughout the game is beyond me. Boldin, Mason, Houshmandzadeh, Stallworth, even get Heap out there.[/b]

Two word. Pass Protection.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='ravensconvert' timestamp='1291038801' post='553844']
We should be happy if there are one or two bad play calls in a game. A play call is basically a guess, a guess of what the other side will throw at you. Sometimes you guess right and sometimes you guess wrong. If Cam only guesses wrong 1-2 times a game we will win a lot of games.
[/quote]
That's the key right there. Taking what the defense gives you. Cam doesn't do that sometimes and it hurts us. But in this Bucs game, Talib was giving Mason a large cushion time and time again and we decided to throw to him on the comeback routes, which moved us down the field. Those were good play calls and we were taking what we could get. We need to use that intelligence not only next week but far beyond that as well.

[hammer]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1291088151' post='554820']
Take a chill pill, the point of my topic was not to present negativitiy, it was a simple question and statement that obviously a lot of fans seem to be frustrated as well.

My evidence of Cam doing this has been spread around this season. He's not a very good OC, that's proof. Flacco would probably be better off without him. That's an opinion. This topic is an opinion. When it's 3rd and medium or long, it's always a draw, a screen pass or just a simple run when we have a short lead. Have you not been watching a lot of games this season? Attacking and putting up points [i]are[/i] connected. I want to see the Ravens being fast, striking to put up points to put the opponent away, I am not content with putting our defense out there at risk when we should have ball control, at least attempting to get into field goal range. We didn't score a single point in the second half yesterday, are you content with that? Were you content, knowing that Freeman already has six 4th quarter come backs in his short career, watching him orchestrate his offense late in the fourth to possible get within less than a possession?

We won, I know this, and dammit I'm happy. But I'm not happy that an offense like ours is only scoring 17 poinys at home with [b]none[/b] in the second half against a very young Tampa Bay defense. You don't have to believe me, hell I don't care, but my opinion is my opinion.
[/quote]

Sorry if I sounded like I was attacking you. I was just trying to offer a counter point to your opinion. I just disagree with the majority of your assessment. Thats all. Again, my apologies.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='hammer' timestamp='1291088345' post='554828']
[b]Our play calling is moronic at times.[/b]

Obviously you are entitled to your opinion, but exagerating a point doesnt exacty support your argument. The year before Cam arrived, the Ravens finished 24th in total scoring (2007). [b][i]Cams first year,[/i][/b] the Ravens jumped to 11th (2008). In 2009 they jumped again to 9th. Moronic?
[/quote]

Um, this was also Joe's first year. Rookie or not it was a case of us having an actual QB as well.

Look, Cam is not awful. He has good game plans for the most part. It is when those game plans fail to work that I have my issue with Cam. He does not adjust on the fly. He stubbornly sticks with his game plan even when it is failing. It is not that he goes almost exclusively with Rice when we get a lead but the timing. He does this way too early allowing the other team to remain around too long and putting our defense on the field (due to 3 and outs) way too long at the end of the game.

Cam has failed to adjust his game plans to Joe's progression. He is still doing the same thing as 2008 when Joe was a rookie and we were using the pound the rock game to aid in his development by not putting the pressure on him. Those days are gone. It is time to let Joe have some control of this offense. This is where Cam is failing.

[Rav'n Maniac]

[quote name='Radinho84' timestamp='1291013525' post='553772']
maybe a little. [b]but if you compare those two type of games from the physical aspect i think they are very similar.[/b] lol
[/quote]
Full contact golf? Now that could be a sport worth watching. lol

[FerrariFan87]

I wasn't happy at all with our last two performances, and we really need to step up our game against Pitt if we want to take control of the division and possible Home-field advantage in the playoffs. Cameron abandons the run too quickly, and can't do that this week if we want to have a chance.

[Finally]

Falcons fans were having this very same discussion the first part of the season. We have a talented offense but they were too conservative, too vanilla, and lacked a sense of urgency to score points.

Many different theories were batted around:

1) Ryan had regressed.
2) Oline problems
3) Mularkey (our OC) needed to go
4) We weren't as good as we expected

After the Eagles game, in which we were thoroughly embarrassed, suddenly the light went off and they opened the playbook and put the game [i]BACK[/i] in Ryan's hands. Now the experts talk about him as though he is the greatest young qb around, our Oline looks stout (vanilla/predictable playcalling makes any Oline look bad), Mularkey looks like a genius, and we really are THAT good.

I felt like I was watching an early Falcon's game when I watched you play the Bucs. Like us you are still winning but your talented offense looks like it is stuck in a low gear.

Of course, I haven't seen that many of your games this year so my opinion probably doesn't mean much so I will give you half off my 2 cents.

[Romo Ravens]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1291144653' post='555263']
Falcons fans were having this very same discussion the first part of the season. We have a talented offense but they were too conservative, too vanilla, and lacked a sense of urgency to score points.

Many different theories were batted around:

1) Ryan had regressed.
2) Oline problems
3) Mularkey (our OC) needed to go
4) We weren't as good as we expected

After the Eagles game, in which we were thoroughly embarrassed, suddenly the light went off and they opened the playbook and put the game [i]BACK[/i] in Ryan's hands. Now the experts talk about him as though he is the greatest young qb around, our Oline looks stout (vanilla/predictable playcalling makes any Oline look bad), Mularkey looks like a genius, and we really are THAT good.

I felt like I was watching an early Falcon's game when I watched you play the Bucs. Like us you are still winning but your talented offense looks like it is stuck in a low gear.

Of course, I haven't seen that many of your games this year so my opinion probably doesn't mean much so I will give you half off my 2 cents.
[/quote]

Sometimes, it's hard to come to the realization that Flacco and Ryan are just in their third year, although it seems like it's been forever that we drafted the two. I wish we would try to incorporate what you guys are doing in Atlanta, and just give the damn ball to Flacco and let him do his thing. As fans, we will either sink or swim with him calling the shots, and even though a lot of people don't like to hear it, he still has so much time to develop.

We have to be one of the most boring teams to watch in the NFL lol, I just love to watch this team because I'm a Ravens fan, but if I was looking from the outside in, I would probably flip the channel to see what else is on. I didn't expect an explosive, Saints/Colts offense, obviously our team has to gel, but at least be balanced enough to keep putting points up, which is why I'm so frustrated with Cameron. Like ER20 said earlier, I don't expect anything to change, I just hope that everyone is able to execute and we stay healthy.

But I like what Atlanta is doing with Ryan. Hopefully we can see both of our studs in Dallas.

[Finally]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1291147098' post='555287']
Sometimes, it's hard to come to the realization that Flacco and Ryan are just in their third year, although it seems like it's been forever that we drafted the two. I wish we would try to incorporate what you guys are doing in Atlanta, and just give the damn ball to Flacco and let him do his thing. As fans, we will either sink or swim with him calling the shots, and even though a lot of people don't like to hear it, he still has so much time to develop.

We have to be one of the most boring teams to watch in the NFL lol, I just love to watch this team because I'm a Ravens fan, but if I was looking from the outside in, I would probably flip the channel to see what else is on. I didn't expect an explosive, Saints/Colts offense, obviously our team has to gel, but at least be balanced enough to keep putting points up, which is why I'm so frustrated with Cameron. Like ER20 said earlier, I don't expect anything to change, I just hope that everyone is able to execute and we stay healthy.

But I like what Atlanta is doing with Ryan. Hopefully we can see both of our studs in Dallas.
[/quote]


The funny thing is Ryan looks like he needs less time to develop now that he has been given the keys. What was so frustrating for us is that he was allowed to do more as a rookie and then through 2009 and part of 2010 we were holding him back. The no-huddle that he ran great as a rookie had all but disappeared.

I'd like to see what Flacco could do un-tethered. The only way to know if he is ready is to send him to the deep end and go for it.

I saw a golf analogy earlier in this thread. How about a poker one? You have a critical game this week. Time to move all in. It wasn't until we learned to risk losing more that we started to really emerge as winners. I think we lead the league in 4th down attempts and that was not the case until the Dallas game last year when a conservative call blew up in our face again.

We have a boring offense too. It wins games but it is not the big show people like to see. It is probably why we still have fans that want Vick back under center. I think we are still missing a couple of pieces that could help us break the occasional big play. We need another talent at WR and a scatback that can stay healthy.

[TSizzle00]

"We won"

[ml63440]

Play calling and execution have gotten better as the season has gone on, that is why i have not been very worried as the season has progressed. You dont want to peak too early in any sport. Flacco is still just a third year qb, who still struggles reading coverages and doesn't have an extremely fast release. That being said not having Gaither this year has hurt us. We run the ball much more effectively when Yanda is at right guard, and Oher and Gaither playing either tackle position. Also this is just Boldin and Houshs first seasons here, so they are still getting acclimated to playing with and really knowing the offense. A lot comes into effect when we are talking about our offensive stalls this season, it is a combination of everything. The play calling has been questionable a few plays every game but that happens its never going to be perfect. The past few years when he have gotten up on teams we would end up breaking off huge runs, and that just has not been happening this year, if it were we wouldn't even be having this conversation. What i find most impressive is that Boldin has over 50 receptions, Mason and Rice have over 40 each, and Heap is very close behind them with 37. Boldin, Mason, both might go over 100o yards receiving. Spreading the ball this well has never happened to us before. Yea you might be able to know what we are going to do on some plays, but thats the opposing defenses job, they get paid to watch hundreds of hours of film on each team. But when the offense can pass the ball to 4 different players on any down that is something that really is hard to stop. You cant put 8 in the box, and double cover everyone while on defense. The Offense has been making strides and getting better each week, its a long season, those big plays are coming, Willis or Rice will have the long runs soon, then our offense will really take off.

[George70]

I tend to believe that we should keep up the initiative going into this week's crucial game against the Steelers. I say this because we have had our share of tough games against them in the past, yet I do believe that both sides are hungry and eager to get the win this Sunday.

In particular, it is my sincere hope that we can recall what we did to win the first game between the two of us - and improve on these things we have done, all the while noting what the Steelers are doing and adjusting to whatever they are doing in the game.

[reediddy]

[quote name='George70' timestamp='1291155326' post='555451']
I tend to believe that we should keep up the initiative going into this week's crucial game against the Steelers. I say this because we have had our share of tough games against them in the past, yet I do believe that both sides are hungry and eager to get the win this Sunday.

In particular, it is my sincere hope that we can recall what we did to win the first game between the two of us - and improve on these things we have done, all the while noting what the Steelers are doing and adjusting to whatever they are doing in the game.
[/quote]

Right, and we had the perfect gameplan last time we played. Our run game with McGahee was effective and we used the PA pass to get downfield, and to score the game winner I believe.

The thing we have to do this time around is stay on the field longer because obviously with Ben in, their offense is far more dangerous than it was with Batch.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='reediddy' timestamp='1291155982' post='555473']
Right, and we had the perfect gameplan last time we played. Our run game with McGahee was effective and we used the PA pass to get downfield, and to score the game winner I believe.

The thing we have to do this time around is stay on the field longer because obviously with Ben in, their offense is far more dangerous than it was with Batch.
[/quote]

Actually, the running game wasn't effective. McGahee had a 10-yard rush and the 9-yard scoring run but his other 12 rushes went for 20 yards.

As for the winning TD, it came out of the shotgun and there was no run fake.

Personally, I'd like to Cam be more aggressive than look to control the clock. The Steelers have quick strike ability with Wallace and so a seven-minute drive by Joe and the offense could easily be nullified by a long TD by Ben or quick drive down the field.

[hammer]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1291120481' post='555055']
Um, this was also Joe's first year. Rookie or not it was a case of us having an actual QB as well.

Look, Cam is not awful. He has good game plans for the most part. It is when those game plans fail to work that I have my issue with Cam. He does not adjust on the fly. He stubbornly sticks with his game plan even when it is failing. It is not that he goes almost exclusively with Rice when we get a lead but the timing. He does this way too early allowing the other team to remain around too long and putting our defense on the field (due to 3 and outs) way too long at the end of the game.

Cam has failed to adjust his game plans to Joe's progression. He is still doing the same thing as 2008 when Joe was a rookie and we were using the pound the rock game to aid in his development by not putting the pressure on him. Those days are gone. It is time to let Joe have some control of this offense. This is where Cam is failing.
[/quote]

Of course it was Joes first year, and Harbaughs too. But its the OC who is held accountable for the offense. If you hold him accountable, then it seems obvious that you have to give him the credit too. Thats only logical.

And I am still confused as to how you measure "when the gameplan doesnt work?" You obviously not using QB development? You are not using total offense? You are not using wins and losses?

And what do you mean by "leaving the D on the field with "3 and Outs?" The Ravens are 9th in the NFL in First Downs (228).

Then you say Cam is doing the same thing with Joe as 2008? Look at the facts.

[b]08[/b] 428 att/ 257 comp, 60% pct, 2971 yds, 14 td/12 int, 185.7 ypg, 11th t off

[b]09[/b] 499 att/315 comp, 63.1 pct, 3613 yds, 21 td/12 int, 225.8 ypg, 9th t off

[b]10[/b] 63.5 pct, 247.5 ypg

Nah, Cam is giving Joe more responsibility in the offense at the right pace and Joe is the direct beneficiary of it.

Come on dude, you guys have got to stop this madness. Cam is the best OC the Ravens have had since Ted Marchibroda. He has no team speed to work with on he offense. His oline is suspect, both as pass protector and run blockers. Against any given opponent, Cam has to make adjustments according to how his guys are faring on the field. The Ravens are not "proliffic" passers (lack of pass protection and team speed), nor are they smashmouth runners (lack of a dominant o-line). He is actually getting the most he possibly can get with this mix of personnel.

[Rav'n Maniac]

[quote name='George70' timestamp='1291155326' post='555451']
I tend to believe that we should keep up the initiative going into this week's crucial game against the Steelers. I say this because we have had our share of tough games against them in the past, yet I do believe that both sides are hungry and eager to get the win this Sunday.

In particular, it is my sincere hope that we can recall what we did to win the first game between the two of us - and improve on these things we have done, all the while noting what the Steelers are doing and adjusting to whatever they are doing in the game.
[/quote]
I wouldn't mind seeing us do a lot of what the Pats did against them. The Pats made them look vulnerable.

[steeldude]

[quote name='reediddy' timestamp='1291155982' post='555473']
Right, and we had the perfect gameplan last time we played. Our run game with McGahee was effective and we used the PA pass to get downfield, and to score the game winner I believe.

The thing we have to do this time around is stay on the field longer because obviously with Ben in, their offense is far more dangerous than it was with Batch.
[/quote]

Perfect game plan-Are you serious? As I recall you guys needed a last minute penalty to pull out a last minute victory and that was against an old and slow Charie Batch. I hope you guys keep the same "game plan" this time around. As to being just content-I have to agree with the initiator of this thread. You guys go into conservative mode when you have a lead instead of attacking. Which is why the Ravens have given up a few 4th quarter leads.You can blame it on your offensive co-ordinator but IMO it rests solely on the defense to protect your leads and not let teams drive down the field and take whats rightfully yours. I remember the Ravens defense from a few years back. You guys made offenses crumble - nobody did what teams are doing now! Hope you can get it together and give us a good game this Sunday-because IMO there is no wild card coming from the AFC North.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='steeldude' timestamp='1291160466' post='555584']
[b]Perfect game plan-Are you serious? As I recall you guys needed a last minute penalty to pull out a last minute victory and that was against an old and slow Charie Batch.[/b] I hope you guys keep the same "game plan" this time around. As to being just content-I have to agree with the initiator of this thread. You guys go into conservative mode when you have a lead instead of attacking. Which is why the Ravens have given up a few 4th quarter leads.You can blame it on your offensive co-ordinator but IMO it rests solely on the defense to protect your leads and not let teams drive down the field and take whats rightfully yours. I remember the Ravens defense from a few years back. You guys made offenses crumble - nobody did what teams are doing now! Hope you can get it together and give us a good game this Sunday-because IMO there is no wild card coming from the AFC North.
[/quote]

While I agree the game-plan wasn't perfect(when is there ever a perfect game-plan), what "last-minute" penalty did the Ravens get that allowed them to win the game? As I recall, the Ravens offense marched down the field and Joe hit an open Houshmandzadeh for the game-winning TD against the [b]Steelers defense[/b], not Charlie Batch.

[steeldude]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1291160839' post='555589']
While I agree the game-plan wasn't perfect(when is there ever a perfect game-plan), what "last-minute" penalty did the Ravens get that allowed them to win the game? As I recall, the Ravens offense marched down the field and Joe hit an open Houshmandzadeh for the game-winning TD against the [b]Steelers defense[/b], not Charlie Batch.
[/quote]
Did you forget about the defensive holding call on 3rd and 6 with about 70 seconds left? and it was Charlie Batch that gave you the gift interception that let you back in the game. Come on Man!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='steeldude' timestamp='1291161104' post='555594']
Did you forget about the defensive holding call on 3rd and 6 with about 70 seconds left? and it was Charlie Batch that gave you the gift interception that let you back in the game. Come on Man!
[/quote]

Get your facts straight before you come here talking nonsense.

The defensive holding flag [b] came on a punt[/b]. And even without it, how do you know Joe would not have drove the offense down the field and scored?

As for Batch's interception, it came at the end of the game AFTER Joe had already thrown the TD pass. Don't believe me?

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAjB8y2APys[/media]

[steeldude]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1291160839' post='555589']
While I agree the game-plan wasn't perfect(when is there ever a perfect game-plan), what "last-minute" penalty did the Ravens get that allowed them to win the game? As I recall, the Ravens offense marched down the field and Joe hit an open Houshmandzadeh for the game-winning TD against the [b]Steelers defense[/b], not Charlie Batch.
[/quote]

There have been hundreds of perfect game plans and the first one that comes to mind is the Pats game plan against us-that was perfection and we couldn't do jack against it!

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='steeldude' timestamp='1291161859' post='555604']
There have been hundreds of perfect game plans and the first one that comes to mind is the Pats game plan against us-that was perfection and we couldn't do jack against it!
[/quote]

I disagree. If the Steelers had protected Ben better, tackled better and not blown coverages, they might not have been blown out.

But how about addressing my other point in which I clearly proved you wrong?

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='hammer' timestamp='1291158792' post='555551']
Of course it was Joes first year, and Harbaughs too. But its the OC who is held accountable for the offense.
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure the players are held accountable as well. You wanted to give Cam ALL the credit like he came in with the same offensive personnel as the year before and that is not the case.

[quote name='hammer' timestamp='1291158792' post='555551']
And I am still confused as to how you measure "when the gameplan doesnt work?"
[/quote]

Cincy game. NE game. Falcons game. And remember, I am not talking about the game as a whole. I am talking about making adjustments when things are not working. You keep trying to make this about the season or about an entire game or about wins and losses. I am talking about specific situations. I do believe I said he is not horrible and has good game plans most of the time. When that fails however, he does not make the adjustment or makes them too late.

[quote name='hammer' timestamp='1291158792' post='555551']
And what do you mean by "leaving the D on the field with "3 and Outs?" The Ravens are 9th in the NFL in First Downs (228).
[/quote]

Again, you are talking about a big picture and I am talking about the 4th quarter. My post clearly stated [i]at the end of the game.[/i]

[quote name='hammer' timestamp='1291158792' post='555551']
Come on dude, you guys have got to stop this madness. Cam is the best OC the Ravens have had since Ted Marchibroda. He has no team speed to work with on he offense. His oline is suspect, both as pass protector and run blockers. Against any given opponent, Cam has to make adjustments according to how his guys are faring on the field. The Ravens are not "proliffic" passers (lack of pass protection and team speed), nor are they smashmouth runners (lack of a dominant o-line). He is actually getting the most he possibly can get with this mix of personnel.
[/quote]

We have 3 pro bowl WRs on this team. You think they are being used to the best of their ability? Nah. That is not happening.

We have 2 pro bowl RBs on this team and a pro bowl FB. You think they are being used to the best of their ability? Nah. That is not happening.

We have IMO a pro bowl TE on this team and two very promising rookies. One at least that we know has speed in Dickson. You think they are being used to the best of their ability? No.

We run almost no 2 TE sets. We rarely, if ever, run 4 WR sets. And it is also rare to see McGahee and Rice in the back field. There is no creativity in this offensive scheme for the most part. That makes it way too easy for defenses to figure out. And when they make the adjustment and shut it down, Cam has no answer for it. He just keeps on keeping on. And we fail.

[steeldude]

I do have to say the pass from Flacco to Housh was one of the best passes I ever saw it still came in the last 30 seconds hope you don't expect that kind of game this weekend!