Why Are We Just Content?

[Romo Ravens]

Listen, I know we won, so don't give me the "we won" responses because I'm well aware.

Now what the main focus of this topic is, is to ask why you guys think Cameron stays content when we get up by a short lead. Why do we have Flacco run a sneak when we are a yard away? Why don't we hand it off to one of our three Pro Bowl RB's? Why don't we ever try to go for the knockout blow, instead of running little screen passes then repetitively punting the ball?

Honestly, Cam is so predictable. I could almost tell what every third down would look like before it was snapped. So why do you guys think we never attack down field anymore when we have a short lead? Let's keep attacking, keep putting up points so teams don't even have a chance to come close at the end of a game. This isn't a knock on our offense or on Cam, just an honest question that wants some opinions.

What do you guys think?

[1/28/01]

He's trying to minimize our exposure to turnovers, but its back firing. Its like, in golf, taking a 3/4 swing and chunking it. If I take a full swing everytime I hit it pure everytime. Go full speed for 4 quarters and I feel we play a different game. A game we all know can be played and what we want/need to see!

Was the golf analogy a stretch?

[RavensAllTheWay]

Cam actually called a really good game up until the QB sneak. I feel like there's always at least one or two notable bad play calls a game. That was it today. But man, Rice made him look like a genius on the last drive. If Rice isn't able to wiggle his way through tackles and pick up those couple of first downs and we end up punting, so many people would be on his case right now. But thank Rice, he really came through when we needed him. And that holding on the 76 yard screen play TD was BS if there ever was any.

[Ed_Reed20]

I honestly have no idea. Cam has forgotten more football than I'll ever know but his conservative play-calling when the team is up by double digits but the opposing team has some momentum is just baffling.

I'm done hoping it changes. All I can hope for is the o-line blocking well and the RBs are able to rip off some big runs when Cam goes into "conservative mode".

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1291005702' post='553689']
He's trying to minimize our exposure to turnovers, but its back firing. Its like, in golf, taking a 3/4 swing and chunking it. If I take a full swing everytime I hit it pure everytime. Go full speed for 4 quarters and I feel we play a different game. A game we all know can be played and what we want/need to see!

[b]Was the golf analogy a stretch?[/b][/quote]
lol, idk jack crap about the fundamentals and analysis of golf.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

Our play calling is moronic at times. That sneak was so poorly executed it actually injured Oher. I actually yelled at my laptop for about 20 seconds at that play. [b]GIVE IT TO WILLIS OR RICE[/b].

Asides from that, our play calling illustrates an identity crisis. You can see the 'pound the rock' approach that we are used to as opposed to having these new weapons in the passing game, and how this is playing on the mind of Cameron & co.

Why we don't use more spread offence throughout the game is beyond me. Boldin, Mason, Houshmandzadeh, Stallworth, even get Heap out there. How does ANY defence contain those weapons, as well as probably the best receiving halfback in the NFL coming out of the backfield - or just taking the ball on a draw handoff.

Just a thought.

[neoi78]

Are you really complaining after we are 8-3 which I BELIEVE is the best start in Raven's history.

Today the offense was more in-sync than i've ever seen before. The defense was stout enough to get the job done. We have a great victory against another 7-3 team, stop crying. This team's best ball is still ahead.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='neoi78' timestamp='1291006319' post='553704']
Are you really complaining after we are 8-3 which I BELIEVE is the best start in Raven's history.

Today the offense was more in-sync than i've ever seen before. The defense was stout enough to get the job done. We have a great victory against another 7-3 team, stop crying. This team's best ball is still ahead.
[/quote]
I would question whether you have seen many Ravens games at all; or even bothered to read the first line of the thread author.

What Miles is trying to say is there is no need to sit on leads that could be overcome when we have so many weapons.

I mean really? The most in-sync you've ever seen the offence? You must be kidding. Or only seen 2-3 games.

[True]

Billick had a quote like "You don't go quietly crawling into the lions den...you go in screaming like a banshee with a spear in hand"

They need to start using two spears with all the offensive weapons they have.

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='True' timestamp='1291006689' post='553713']
Billick had a quote like "You don't go quietly crawling into the lions den...you go in screaming like a banshee with a spear in hand"

They need to start using two spears with all the offensive weapons they have.
[/quote]
Amen to that. I feel like we shut up shop as soon as that screen play was called back.

[neoi78]

I understand your point, and I agree it "appeared" that the offense slowed down after we jumped ahead.. but you must see that the Bucs stepped up their coverage and their game after our lead.

They are professionals on that side of the ball too. We can't just "scream and spear" them and they'd be ok with that. Its a challenge. We could open the offense up MORE OFTEN with like 3-4 WR sets, but then again, our offensive line struggles, therefore they cant use that all the time for the need of blockers.

I've seen quite a few games, 2 1/2 seasons to be precise. I'm only refering to the offense in the flacco era. TOday the offense has flowed more fluidly and CONSISTANTLY than i've seen this year at all. Except for maybe the denver game. ?

Comments?

[ravensdfan]

It is an odd thing really. It is not that Cam is doing something wrong but just too early. A 14 pt lead with over 10 mins left and he went almost exclusively to the run. He was not even trying to make first downs. I've read where some are saying that Rice made him look good that last series but there was the pass to Rice for the first down. I think he did mix it up a bit on that last series realizing we needed to make a first down.

Mattison is another one though. He goes to that soft coverage D too often and too soon.

[rlh445]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1291005469' post='553683']
Listen, I know we won, so don't give me the "we won" responses because I'm well aware.

Now what the main focus of this topic is, is to ask why you guys think Cameron stays content when we get up by a short lead. Why do we have Flacco run a sneak when we are a yard away? Why don't we hand it off to one of our three Pro Bowl RB's? Why don't we ever try to go for the knockout blow, instead of running little screen passes then repetitively punting the ball?

Honestly, Cam is so predictable. I could almost tell what every third down would look like before it was snapped. So why do you guys think we never attack down field anymore when we have a short lead? Let's keep attacking, keep putting up points so teams don't even have a chance to come close at the end of a game. This isn't a knock on our offense or on Cam, just an honest question that wants some opinions.

What do you guys think?
[/quote]

We should ask Cam, honestly. I dunno why he does what he does, but he's got a gameplan and he rarely deviates from it. We won, !

[Ed_Reed_Pick_Six]

[quote name='neoi78' timestamp='1291007544' post='553724']
I understand your point, and I agree it "appeared" that the offense slowed down after we jumped ahead.. but you must see that the Bucs stepped up their coverage and their game after our lead.

They are professionals on that side of the ball too. We can't just "scream and spear" them and they'd be ok with that. Its a challenge. We could open the offense up MORE OFTEN with like 3-4 WR sets, but then again, our offensive line struggles, therefore they cant use that all the time for the need of blockers.

I've seen quite a few games, 2 1/2 seasons to be precise. I'm only refering to the offense in the flacco era. TOday the offense has flowed more fluidly and CONSISTANTLY than i've seen this year at all. Except for maybe the denver game. ?

Comments?
[/quote]
I don't know if our line struggles, I just think we play into the hands of the defence too often by condensing our formations.

Fair enough, about the same as me then. I'm referring to the Flacco era also, we've definitely had better games in terms of flow and consistency though. You do raise a good point though - the fluidity and consistency of our offence is a real problem.

[Purple Punishment]

one word that changed our performance today. INJURIES!

[gabefergy]

I think its important to remember that it was after two kwy injuries (mcclaain and oher) that our offense really sputtered. That really limited the offensive options and forced significant deviation from the game plan.

[1/28/01]

Not sure McClain, Landry and Oher caused us to just run and dump the ball off. We stopped going down field 5+ yards in the entire 3rd quarter and then into the 4th, just thankfully Rice started ripping off junks of yardage. Cam seems to get complacent with a lead and its cost us a few games this year!

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1291009302' post='553738']
I think its important to remember that it was after two kwy injuries (mcclaain and oher) that our offense really sputtered. That really limited the offensive options and forced significant deviation from the game plan.
[/quote]
The two TDs were after McClain went down. The long screen play to Rice and Tood Heap non PI call on third down came after Oher went down. But I do agree with you and I said this in another thread. If they can't go next week, we can't go as deep into the play book and we have to stick more with short and quick passes.

[JO_75]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1291005780' post='553692']
I honestly have no idea. Cam has forgotten more football than I'll ever know but his conservative play-calling when the team is up by double digits but the opposing team has some momentum is just baffling.

I'm done hoping it changes. [b]All I can hope for is the o-line blocking well and the RBs are able to rip off some big runs when Cam goes into "conservative mode".[/b]
[/quote]

I'm hoping if there is that chance this isn't a typical Ravens-Steelers game, and we do get out to a big lead, Cam doesn't get conservative until we are up by 21 or more. Now I know that it won't happen but just if there is that chance that is when Cam can get content. I would feel comfortable with a 21 or more point lead and going into conservative run out the clock mode, but the minute the other team scores, go back into aggressive mode and get back up by the same points you were before.


[quote name='True' timestamp='1291006689' post='553713']
Billick had a quote like [b]"You don't go quietly crawling into the lions den...you go in screaming like a banshee with a spear in hand" [/b]

They need to start using two spears with all the offensive weapons they have.
[/quote]

There are so many quotes from America's Game: The Story of The 2000 Ravens that the 2010 Ravens team can apply that it's not funny. That is one I want them to apply next week against Pittsburgh.

[Kwothdaraven]

Next week is the steelers with the divisionon the line. I have a feeling its going to be sickening at how conservitive cam will call the game. The steelers secondary might be eorse than ours, they need to exploit that.but, i just know in my gut tgat they wont. Which irritates the hell out of me because the falcons let ryan be ryan, but the ravens make flacco be cam. Flacco could be even farther ahead if the curb if it werent for cam

[Radinho84]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1291005702' post='553689']
He's trying to minimize our exposure to turnovers, but its back firing. Its like, in golf, taking a 3/4 swing and chunking it. If I take a full swing everytime I hit it pure everytime. Go full speed for 4 quarters and I feel we play a different game. A game we all know can be played and what we want/need to see!

[b]Was the golf analogy a stretch?[/b][/quote]
maybe a little. but if you compare those two type of games from the physical aspect i think they are very similar. lol

[UMDan]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1291009553' post='553742']
The two TDs were after McClain went down. The long screen play to Rice and Tood Heap non PI call on third down came after Oher went down. But I do agree with you and I said this in another thread. If they can't go next week, we can't go as deep into the play book and we have to stick more with short and quick passes.
[/quote]


I agree.. luckily it seems like Oher will be back. We need him if Flacco wants to make some of the great passes he's made all season.

[flynismo]

Just another example of why cam needs to go.

[Jabara]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1291019560' post='553798']
Just another example of why cam needs to go.
[/quote]
This far in the season, who would you replace him with?

[flynismo]

[quote name='Jabara' timestamp='1291019917' post='553800']<br />This far in the season, who would you replace him with?<br />[/quote]


i dont mean right this minute. We've made our bed, now we have to lie in it. Come off season, I want us to all chip in and buy Cam a plane ticket to PIT or CIN.

[ravensconvert]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1291005756' post='553691']
Cam actually called a really good game up until the QB sneak. I feel like there's always at least one or two notable bad play calls a game. That was it today. But man, Rice made him look like a genius on the last drive. If Rice isn't able to wiggle his way through tackles and pick up those couple of first downs and we end up punting, so many people would be on his case right now. But thank Rice, he really came through when we needed him. And that holding on the 76 yard screen play TD was BS if there ever was any.
[/quote]

We should be happy if there are one or two bad play calls in a game. A play call is basically a guess, a guess of what the other side will throw at you. Sometimes you guess right and sometimes you guess wrong. If Cam only guesses wrong 1-2 times a game we will win a lot of games.

[Marc2k6]

You know what, I will have to admit that I have been doing a lot of complaining but I will complain no more. A win is a win is a win and I could careless how we get a win. Just Win !

[POE]

I understand the disappointment with the play-calling when we are in the lead and i find myself griping about too watching the game, but I also understand that Cam knows the kind of talent we have in the backfield and wants to get those guys involved too. For the most part this season the ball has moved down the field successfully through the air and compared to recent years the running game hasn't been what it normally is so I just think he is trying to catch the defense playing more pass defense and giving his backs the opportunity to put the game away. Today that worked out for us with Rice doing what he is supposed to but other games this season that hasn't happened so who is to blame? I just think it kind of goes both ways sometimes because we have weapons all over the field and when your number gets called you have to answer it and make plays, and this week our guys did. Let's go out Sunday night and do the same to Pitt..GO Ravens!

[gkyle06]

I dont understand how everyone is fishing for something to be wrong, we are on the verge of possibly winning the division and making the playoffs 3 years in a row which if Im correct has never been done before in ravens history. So to the ones who are saying why run the ball in the 4th quarter with 10 mnutes left, its called run the clock down, if you control the clock you control the game. If were up 14 points in the 4th quarter the last thing you do is start chucking the rock around and hope it doesnt get picked. plus while your running the ball and eating up time you give the defense a breather and get warm a bit since its freezing. it doesnt matter if you win by a field goal or 42 touchdowns, winning is winning. do you think people are calling up today in pittsburgh complaing how fitzpatrick almost beat them? or how steve johnson almost torched there "great secondary?"

[hammer]

[quote name='Romo Ravens' timestamp='1291005469' post='553683']
Listen, I know we won, so don't give me the "we won" responses because I'm well aware.

Now what the main focus of this topic is, is to ask why you guys think Cameron stays content when we get up by a short lead. Why do we have Flacco run a sneak when we are a yard away? Why don't we hand it off to one of our three Pro Bowl RB's? Why don't we ever try to go for the knockout blow, instead of running little screen passes then repetitively punting the ball?

Honestly, Cam is so predictable. I could almost tell what every third down would look like before it was snapped. So why do you guys think we never attack down field anymore when we have a short lead? Let's keep attacking, keep putting up points so teams don't even have a chance to come close at the end of a game. This isn't a knock on our offense or on Cam, just an honest question that wants some opinions.

What do you guys think?
[/quote]

[b]Listen, I know we won, so don't give me the "we won" responses because I'm well aware.[/b]

Sorry, but if we are going to have an intelligent discussion on the topic, you have to at least consider the outcome of the strategy you are complaining about. It is pecular to begin an argument by eliminating evidence.

[b]Now what the main focus of this topic is, is to ask why you guys think [u]Cameron stays content[/u] when we get up by a short lead.[/b]

This is a baseless premise that "Cam stays content when getting a short lead." You have provided no evidence to support that claim. My assumption is that you are refering to the game against Tampa Bay and I couldnt disagree with you more.

[b]Why do we have Flacco run a sneak when we are a yard away? Why don't we hand it off to one of our three Pro Bowl RB's?[/b]

Hindsight is 20/20, but I really believe that QB sneaks have a high ratio of success on short yardage (my imperical experience). Tampa Bay was successful themselves on a QB sneak in the same game and Joe has been successful more often than not.

[b]Why don't we ever try to go for the knockout blow, instead of running little screen passes then repetitively punting the ball? [/b]

Those little screen passes probably account for half of the big passing plays (Rice and McGehee) the Ravens have over the last two years. Rice actually took one of them 77 yards if not for the blown call. Screen passes, as one of the other posters commented carry a much lower risk of turnovers than chucking the ball downfield. If Joe had thrown an int, you would have been all over the both of them. And rightfully so.

[b]Honestly, Cam is so predictable. I could almost tell what every third down would look like before it was snapped.[/b]

The word "honestly" doesnt qualify as evidence that you could tell every play before the snap. And "honestly" I flat out dont believe you on it.

[b]So why do you guys think we never attack down field anymore when we have a short lead?[/b]

This is also baseless, because it is not true. The Ravens continued to throw the ball down field even after getting the lead. They just werent as successful.

[b]Let's keep attacking, keep putting up points so teams don't even have a chance to come close at the end of a game.[/b]

Attacking and putting up points are not automatically connected. Execution must be successful to connect the two. The Ravens did not execute as well in the second half. The defens made some nice adjustments and the chess match went to another level. But if not for the blown call on the Rice screen pass, we probably would not be having this discussion at all. I thought the Ravens stayed aggressive throughout, until late in the 4th qtr. Thats when they shifted to playing against the clock. BTW, that was the right thing to do also.